Any bullet casters around

[Incoming]

What with the price of bullets I am working my way into casting for my bolt and wheel guns but I'm new at it and looking for some "real" experience to keep me on the straight and narrow.

[kawalekm]

Hi IC
I've been reloading since the 80's and got started casting back in the 90's. A great starter book with casting information is Dean Grennell's "ABC's of reloading" He has sections on making bullets by both casting and swaging. Another good casting reference is Lyman's cast bullet handbook.

You'll find casting especially cheap if you have access to free lead. I routinely get scrap wheelweights from my local tire garages that I do business with. I ask for weights every time I go in for service. I usually never walk out without at least a 20 lb bucket of weights. If you pick up free brass at the range and you cast your own bullets, you only have to pay money for powder and primers.

I, myself am partial to Lyman equipment. I do have some Lee molds and lead pot, but I think they are junk. Most of the equipment I first bought from Lee was replaced with the more expensive Lyman equivelent after just a few casting sessions. You do get what you pay for in the casting world.

Here's a pic of some of my lead bullets, both as cast and also after swaging them into hollowpoints.
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r55/kawalekm/swagingcastbullets.jpg

[Incoming]

I've been shooting casts in .45 acp for years but as the cost kept going up it got old. I recently had a friend give me a Lyman luber/sizer with the .45 die and a WC top punch along with a single cavity WC and a double RN. I've got a pot and dipper and have used in for blackpowder round ball but my experience is limited. Now with the cost of bullets through I'm thinking maybe it's time to make the switch to cast lead. I've got a copy of Lymans 47th edition which addresses casting a little but not near enough. Thanks for the heads up on the other references.

[kawalekm]

HI IC
Can I assume you already have a reloading system and now you want to get into casting? Sounds like you have just about everything you need to get started. Are you going to be reloading for a 1911? What are the weights for the two bullets you have molds for? Do you know the mold ID #?

Here's what I would suggest you do to get started. Get some scrap wheelweights from the garage you usually go to. Throw a bunch in the lead pot and start melting them down. I use a scrapped kitchen spoon to skim off the steel rim clips and road dirt. If you have any weights made out of zinc, you want to get those out of the pot fast because zinc in your alloy will spoil it for making bullets. If the weight start to shine up and seems to dissolve away as soon as it gets immersed in the liquified lead, then it too is lead. If it just floats on top of the lead without sinking down and melting, then it's zinc. If you crank up the temperature of the pot past 800F the zinc will melt and mix with the lead, but if you are just starting the pot up, you can quickly discard any zinc weights before they melt.

Once you get the weights all melted and you've skimmed off the clips, you want to "flux" the lead. You drop in a fingernail sized chunk of wax or bullet grease, let it melt, and quickly mix it into the lead. It will generate lots of smoke, so be ready to light it on fire with a match or lighter. Road dirt will ball up in the presence of the wax and you'll quickly purify your alloy by skimming off the junk that comes to the surface after mixing in the wax.

Next, you want to add a bit of tin to make the alloy "wetter". Tin hardens the alloy and makes it fill out the molds better. You can add up to about 5% of the total weight of all the alloy as tin. That is, if you have about 9-10 lbs of lead in you pot, add about 1lb of 50/50 solder, or 1/2 lb of lead-free tin solder. That will give you Lyman alloy #2, my favorate. Flux again after you add the tin and you are ready to start casting.

As the mold starts out cold the bullets will be of very low quality. They'll have wrinkles and gaps because the lead is cooling too quickly inside the cold steel. Expect to throw the first twenty or so back in the pot without even looking at them. After about 20, start looking at your bullets. Are the driving bands sharp right angles, or do they look rounded? Do you se any wrinkles? If so, keep pouring and slightly turn up the pot's temperature. Once you see sharp edges and no defects, keep pouring bullet after bullet. As you pour lead into the mold you always leave a little puddle on top called the sprue. As the lead cools inside the mold it pulls more lead into it. Watch the color and texture of the sprue. As it is freshly poured it has a shiny liquid look. Once the lead has solidified the sprue turns a frosty silver. It should take about 5 seconds to cool from wet looking to frosty. If faster than 5 seconds you should turn up the pot temp. If it cools slower than 5 the lead's too hot and you turn the pot down. Drop the new bullets on a soft surface, like a shallow cardboard box. The hot lead is still close to the melting point and is very soft right out of the mold. Continue pouring bullet after bullet till you use up what in your pot. By this time you should get about 400-500 bullets.

You're not done yet. After the bullets cool, you sort out any that have defects, then you are ready to size them. You run them into the lube/sizer to make them the exact same size as your barrel. You turn the little handle on top of the sizer with the bullet inside to squirt lube into the bullet grooves. Once the lead is the exact size and you lube them, they are ready to load into complete cartridges.
Good luck to you.
Michael

[docsoos]

Greetings, Guys!

Kawalekm, do you ever "quench" your bullets by dropping them in water? I know a guy that casts a lot, and he "hardens" all his pills like this. Any thoughts? I'm gonna have to dust off my Lee pot and molds pretty soon myself, so knowledge is power (and saved money!).

DocSoos

[DM]

I guess you could say i started casting when i was a kid, in the 60's. I got the bright idea to cast some round balls for a muzzle loader i came by, and i have no idea where i got it, or what it was, as it was many guns ago now...

Anyway, i got myself a 3 pound coffee can, filled it with scrap lead, and put it on a cook stove. When the lead FINALLY melted, the can sprung a leak!! Who knew those cans were soldered together?? lol

"Eventually", (over the years) i graduated to a 20 pound bottom pour furnace, and cast many many thousands of bullets for sale, and of course i used all of my own cast bullets for hunting and competion shooting...

Today, hard cast bullets are all i use in my handguns, as there's no advantage of using jacketed bullets in them...at least not for the velocities i load too, not even for hunting.

It's a good hobby, buy GOOD equipment up front, and save some money in the long run, by not having to trade up later!

DM

[Rick]

Thanks for the advise about buying good equipment up front.

I am in the process of collecting lead from my tire shop. I have about 250 lbs; that's enough for a start. :D

Next I'm gonna pour some ignots, then get some molds, and commence pouring.

Will old muffin pans work as ignot molds?

[DM]

Old "cast iron" pans?? They work perfectly, but the light ones may warp badly when you use them, and if they have teflon in them, you don't want to breath that!

Anyway, i made three ingot moulds out of U channel iron, that i welded the ends shut. I get them hot by putting them in the wood stove, then melt my wheel weights in an old kettle i have on one of those gas out door burners, that's used for fish fry's.

I then take the hot moulds out of the stove, one at a time, and pour the "cleaned" lead out of the kettle, and into the mould. Each mould makes a 20 pound bar.....so far i have around 90 of them... It's just a good way to store my cleaned lead until i need it, and until that day, it makes good "weights" for the tractor...

For bullet casting, a couple bar's goes back into the kettle, then i mix in "tin beads" until it cast the bullet "hardeness" i want... as wheel weights are not quite hard enough for me as wheel weights alone. Then i pour "that" lead, into the small 2 pound ingot moulds that are made just for this purpose, as i've picked a few of them up over the years cheaply... All of those small ingots of lead are kept together as one "lot", that will be used together.

Anyway, hope this helps you some,

DM

[kawalekm]

Doc, I've never tried water quenching. I haven't tried exotic alloys or hardening techniques because the alloy I started with, Lyman #2, seems to work very well for me. I do get slight leading, but nothing that doesn't clean out with a tight cotton patch. I make #2 mostly from wheelweights and recycled pewter I get at the flea market, but I've made the same with store bought tin solder.

Rick, a muffin pan is exactly what I use for making ingots. A 2.5" round ingot fits just about everybody's lead pot. Your typical 9X13 muffin pan will hold 20 lbs of alloy. Just make sure your wife doesn't see you do it?

With the ammo shortage right now, I've been busy in the garage making as much extra ammo as my stock of cases will allow.

[Rick]

Good advise. Thanks.

Of course, if I were to find some nice used cast iron muffin pans, SWMBO would confiscate them quicker than a chicken on a June bug.

I could "borrow" her regular pans to cast ignots, but then I'd have to come up with some real creative excuses of why I don't like muffins anymore.

[Incoming]

Spent most of yesterday melting down 98 lbs of lead I've been hording into 1 lb ingots in preparation of pouring some .45 acp round nose. Got 4 lbs of powder, lots of cleaned brass, 1400 large pistol primers and a tube of lube. I ordered a RN top punch for my luber last week so hopefully I'll be ready soon to get this casting thing kicked off.

[cmdan]

This is a great thread, I just happened to buy the a 6 cav .452 200 gr rnfp mold, sizer/lubricator, and wax, earlier today. Want to get into this myself. I was told, but a guy who does this, to just get one of those camp stoves that use white gas and make a bowl pot out of 6 inch pipe, then if it is something I wanted to keep doing, I could splurge for the more expensive stuff.

Been reloading 45 colt for a few months, just started reloading 45 acp. Got a coffee can of lead wheel weights to get started. We'll see how this goes.

Great info, thanks.

I really like you hollow points, is that something that can be done with a round nose cast bullet?

[Incoming]

As I was pouring some small lead boxes that I think were used in the medical/dental field there must have been a small about of water in a cavity or something because 2 seconds after I dropped the small container in the pot I had a blow out. Threw lead all over the place to about 6', fortunately my smelter has a splash shield on the front. The shield was an add-on and I didn't understand what it was other than in the way but I see its purpose now. I've cast and reloaded some 600 .45 acp rounds so tomorrow it's off to the range. Now what do I do about leading if that happens?

[DM]

Any lead that i have, that i'm not "possitive" is water/moisture/condensation free, goes into the pot when i turn the pot on, so it will heat up slooowly. That way it won't explode.

If it's a bigger quanity, i put it by the wood stove in my shop, so it will get HOT, but not melt, and that cooks the moisture off it.

DM

[cmdan]

As I was pouring some small lead boxes that I think were used in the medical/dental field there must have been a small about of water in a cavity or something because 2 seconds after I dropped the small container in the pot I had a blow out. Threw lead all over the place to about 6', fortunately my smelter has a splash shield on the front. The shield was an add-on and I didn't understand what it was other than in the way but I see its purpose now. I've cast and reloaded some 600 .45 acp rounds so tomorrow it's off to the range. Now what do I do about leading if that happens?

As I understand it, if you are lubing your bullets, you shouldn't have much leading....that said, I bought some lead remover, just for preventive maintenance. :)

[kawalekm]

No, not true. There always will be some leading. Even in my revolver only shooting 38 specials I still get some. But what it amounts to is only tiny little flakes that clean out with just a batch or two. Underlubed bullets will result in HEAVY leading that's difficult to clean out and very determental to accuracy. Properly lubed bullets though will only add about 1-2 minutes/batches extra to your cleaning session and are an insignifact amount of extra time considering how much more you'll be able to shoot with cast.

[Incoming]

Went to the range yesterday and ran 200 of my freshly casts through the 1911 without a jam. Didn't notice any leading but I put a brass brush through the pipe a few times anyway. I think I'm sold on casting as the savings is considerable. Think I'll look around for mold, luber and sizer for the .308 and start working up a deer load. Seems lead worked well enough 100 years ago so guess I'll give it a try and save some money in the process.

[kawalekm]

Congratulations to you. I too just finished working on a good cast load for my .45 ACP. With the ammo shortage now, you might be the only guy at the range soon (or maybe with the other casters). Independence is a great feeling, isn't it!

[Incoming]

Yahoo! You're correct, seems there was only 15 or so folks at the range banging away and most were plinking with their .22's. One guy had an underfolder AK, one with an AR15 and one with a .270 bolt gun and by noon I had the place to myself. Seems at $78 molds are a bit pricy, any suggestions for a fruggle minded guy?

[kawalekm]

Seems at $78 molds are a bit pricy, any suggestions for a fruggle minded guy?

Try www.midwayusa.com
I just got their August flier and they had a bunch of Lyman molds on sale for 58$. Last mold I bought was 49$ and was upset that the price had gone up from 44$! Hummm, even the bullet molds are going up in this shortage. Better scrounge up as much lead as you can carry now too. You might have to supply all your friends with ammo.

You could also choose a Lee mold, but I really make better bullets with ferrous molds, so I don't select a Lee mold unless it's a style no-one else makes. I just don't like the lack of mass when I'm trying to wack the sprue plate with the mallet.
Good luck

[DM]

Fot the most part, i don't like most of Lee's products... BUT, i do like their moulds, and once you learn how to cast with them, they work VERY well. I've yet to have a bad one, and many of mine are over 25 years old.

They have to be treated differently then steel moulds though, or you will screw them up...

DM

[Incoming]

Try www.midwayusa.com
I just got their August flier and they had a bunch of Lyman molds on sale for 58$. Last mold I bought was 49$ and was upset that the price had gone up from 44$! Hummm, even the bullet molds are going up in this shortage. Better scrounge up as much lead as you can carry now too. You might have to supply all your friends with ammo.

You could also choose a Lee mold, but I really make better bullets with ferrous molds, so I don't select a Lee mold unless it's a style no-one else makes. I just don't like the lack of mass when I'm trying to wack the sprue plate with the mallet.
Good luck

OK, so how much lead should I "cash"? I just put 98 lbs into ingots but I'll probably go through that in 2 years I'm guessing and I usually maintain 2-3K primers of various sizes and 8 or so lbs of powder. Any guesstaments on long term/shtf needs.

[kawalekm]

OK, so how much lead should I "cash"? I just put 98 lbs into ingots but I'll probably go through that in 2 years I'm guessing and I usually maintain 2-3K primers of various sizes and 8 or so lbs of powder. Any guesstaments on long term/shtf needs.
Well, 98 lbs of alloy is a good start. Lead can't go bad, so stash it now and save it for the future. I mostly store my lead as raw wheelweights in 5 gallon buckets. Here's a pic of the bullet making side of my workbench. See that bucket at the bottom of the pic? Right now, I have about 2 1/2 of these, which I'd say is about 300+ pounds of lead.
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r55/kawalekm/reloadingstation.jpg
I also have about 15 one-pound ingots of tin solder/pewter metal which is about 90-95% tin. If I add one pound of tin alloy to 19 lbs of wheelweight lead (Lyman #2 alloy), I have the ability to make between 12K and 17K bullets, depending on caliber/weight.

Check out this website, http://castboolits.gunloads.com/. A great site for bullet makers.

[DM]

Here's how i turn my scrap lead, including wheel weights, into 20 pound "clean" ingots,

http://www.fototime.com/8DE0B7195BEB577/standard.jpg

I have somewhere between 1,600 and 1,800 pounds of clean lead ingots right now, but i still have a few more pails of weights to melt, along with some "other" scrap lead...

DM

[Incoming]

Wow! Very kool guys, I see I've got a bit of catching up with the Jones to do or at least where I need to be. Thanks for the info it's good have your experience as a source of reference.

[cmdan]

Fot the most part, i don't like most of Lee's products... BUT, i do like their moulds, and once you learn how to cast with them, they work VERY well. I've yet to have a bad one, and many of mine are over 25 years old.

They have to be treated differently then steel moulds though, or you will screw them up...

DM

I have the lee 6 .452 mold and the lee .452 sizer. My problem is the bullets seem to be too small for the sizer, they just go right through. I used a caliper to measure a couple and I get .448 to .452. I also have trouble keeping the mold hot, the bullets come out not filled or with lines on most of them. Thinking maybe I should go with the two bullet mold.

[jim]

Considering how the EPA and earth hippies are denigrating lead, I'd think now is a good time to start collecting as much of it as possible. Paper patching will solve some leading problems, and if you can find it, and old NRA publication on cast bullets by Col. E.H.Harrison will solve a lot of problems before they get started.

jim