REAL Cheap feed.

[Lobo]

Due to income I am looking for ways to feed my animals year around. I know free ranging but need to know about winter months feeding. Any suggestions?

Thanks,

Lobo

[bee_pipes]

There is some excellent information out in the forum on this exact topic. One of the posts I found most useful was this:

http://www.backwoodshome.com/forum/yabb/forum2.pl?board=fau-livestock;action=display;num=1197929534;start=11#1 1

It provides a number of links to articles. My comfrey is on the way now and we'll be starting that. We also have plans for a small-scale grain operation - strictly manual - will let you know how that works out. Best of luck to you - keep us informed of your progress.

Regards,
Pat

[Tommie]

Where did you buy your comfrey?

[bee_pipes]

Here's where I found mine:

http://www.richters.com/Web_store/web_store.cgi?product=X1870&show=&prodclass=Herb_a nd_Vegetable_Plants&cart_id=2561473.21576
http://www.richters.com/Web_store/web_store.cgi?product=X1878-200&show=&prodclass=Herb_and_Vegetable_Plants&cart _id=2561473.21576

Check with Deberosa - she found another place and got a better deal.

Regards,
Pat

[Deberosa]

I got mine here - it's growing well despite the nasty weather this year.

http://www.horizonherbs.com/

[Tommie]

Thanks,

[Deberosa]

I just have been reading tonight in another book I got by John Jeavons entitled Backyard Homestead and Mini-Farm and Garden Log Book.

He lays out in detail in this book what it takes to feed a chicken or a goat space wise.

Here are some of those details:

Chickens require 4 square feet of indoor space and a run area of at least 20 square feet. One chicken eats 100 pounds of feed a year and produces 230 eggs. Growing 100 pounds of feed would take about 1,000 square feet per hen (corn and wheat) This can be reduced by 50 per cent if they are allowed to forage for their own food.

For goats - each needs a 200 square foot pen and 3/4 ton of alfalfa plus 400 pounds of grain a year. Thats 3000 square feet for the alfalfa (multiple cuttings) and another 2000 square feet for the grain. You should have at least two goats.

Seems like alot but with 6 chickens and 2 goats would still take less than an acre to support...

The Grow more vegetables book talks more about the growing of all of the fruits and vegetables for a family also - still less than an acre.

Apparently this can be done in order to reduce or eliminate dependencies on food with careful choice of the animals and careful stewardship of the land available.

Just thought I would share - had not seen this lined out like this before.

[GREEN_ALIEN]

Yea, that 1000 square feet for a hundred pounds of wheat don't work unless it is irrigated on good ground with fair or better inputs and is highly dependent on variety and geography, not to mention that the math don't work ie.. 100 lbs - 1000 sqft vs 400 lbs - 2000 sqft.

I might not got all that new math but I can figger that one in my head.

Dryland wheat, say a hard white in my geography I am lucky to see 40 bu-acre with a 58.6 test weight. So lets us just see about that there math.

40 X 58.6 = 2344 lbs per acre or 43560 sqft
2344 / 43560 = .053 lbs sqft
1000 X .053 = 53 lbs Short by 47 lbs

You would need 2000 sqft in my area under the best conditions.

All that work for one dang chicken lol, gimme a break. Buy the feed, don't cut corners and sell the eggs to cover the feed cost.

The point is, TALK to people in YOUR area growing whatever crop it is.

Two types of farmer/rancher - them with an operating line and them without. Them without follow a very old and real simple rule that we can all practice:
WHAT DON'T PRUDUCE INCOME, BECOMES INCOME!

Hows about feeding our stock good quality, balanced rations and selling some of the offspring to pay for the upkeep of the rest. It works well on this place and at every neighbor I know. I think this year it will cost me the first five calves from last fall to keep the registered herd of Angus well fed this last winter. Not all calculated because winter is not over just yet around here, still on feed. Stock cows a little cheaper because they get a different ration.

[Deberosa]

This was from the Grow Biointensive method - not regular farming. They start the wheat in flats and transplant on 5 inch centers in 4 ft wide beds. Hand water and cultivate.


It all depends on what your goals are and how self sufficient you want to be...

[GREEN_ALIEN]

This was from the Grow Biointensive method - not regular farming. *They start the wheat in flats and transplant on 5 inch centers in 4 ft wide beds. *Hand water and cultivate.


It all depends on what your goals are and how self sufficient you want to be...


Oh goody, we get to continue on down this line... just when I thought the math proved the point.

So, let's see, we now take perfectly good seed wheat out of the drills, plant it twice, by hand and then work it by hand for 90 days. Finish off by hand cutting and threshing and actually believe that for some silly reason that this is more self sufficient than drillin it?

Absolutely grand idea if only there were unlimited daylight and your labor were free.

Now I am going to climb up on the soapbox...

Deb, your short reply seemed to indicate that my method was not self sufficient as someone elses. The way I figger it I am operating more self sufficent than most people reading this post.

When I go to work in the morning it is a walk from the house to the corrals. Yes, I trade cash for product but I receive more cash for my product at a later date. It is just a business.

The problem with closed loop self sufficiency is that there is no method to add cash or product without selling or trading something off. Guess what, as soon as that takes place it is a business, in the business of making profit...

Back to the wheat. With all of this magically free work needed to grow one little bit of wheat I would have to ask myself if ONE dang chicken were worth it.

You could use the authors methods but you would run out of energy long before you gained anything. And you certianly couldn't do the work for a handfull of chickens as they would not have a large enough net protien return to allow your body to keep working making chicken feed.

BTW oats is a better choice than wheat for this deal.

GA

[Deberosa]

Egad?

The short reply is because I dashed it off before starting work today - no ulterior motive.

THe post was INFORMATIONAL!!!! There was a discsusion about growing your own feed and what would it take and I happened to have read this book last night that had some info on that subject in it.

So sue me!!!!


GEEZE


PS. There is ALWAYS more than one way to skin a cat and in my opinion the approaches to homesteading are as varied as the people participating. I don't have 40 acres to grow hay and run a herd big enough to pay for the feed I need to buy, and don't care to buy feed that could be genetically engineered or poisoned with chemicals. I also will not be transplanting wheat however. I figure to find some kind of logical compromise in it all.

[GREEN_ALIEN]

Egad?

The short reply is because I dashed it off before starting work today - no ulterior motive.

THe post was INFORMATIONAL!!!! *There was a discsusion about growing your own feed and what would it take and I happened to have read this book last night that had some info on that subject in it.

So sue me!!!! *


GEEZE


PS. *There is ALWAYS more than one way to skin a cat and in my opinion the approaches to homesteading are as varied as the people participating. *I don't have 40 acres to grow hay and run a herd big enough to pay for the feed I need to buy, and don't care to buy feed that could be genetically engineered or poisoned with chemicals. *I also will not be transplanting wheat however. * I figure to find some kind of logical compromise in it all.


As was my post. The difference was that one post had practical, sustainable real world information and one did not.

As far as your herd not being big enough to pay for feed? It is more than one animal right? I was hoping not to have to do math today but what the hell, it's Thursday.

1 cow has 1 calf or 1+1=2
3 choices for the calf -
1- eat it, you and the other half can't eat it all so there is a massive amount of meat to sell. Lets say a small half worth say 500$.
2-Sell it all say 1000$
3-Sava as a replacer and double herd. No money now better money later.

Wintered cow needs about 30 lbs of feed a day for 120 days, a little less in your area. Of that 30 lbs 10 to 12 pounds should be good quality protien and the balance roughage, say good wheat straw for heat (carbs).

Alfalfa (feeder or better) 155 tn avg. You need 1440lbs per head on the high end. Just say a ton.

Wheat Straw (feed grade or long cut)70 tn avg. You need 2160 lbs per head on the high end. Call it a ton and make the diff out of the alfalfa.

So, 155+70=235 or a very cheap quarter of beef. As you can see math rules the day again. One cow has one calf and you should be making money barring of course there are no cattle equipment charges that year.

Since most of us care what goes into our beef we generally staw away from GM and high chem load feeds. Does not mean you can't buy it, it is everywhere.

What does not produce income becomes income.

GA

[Drawbar]

Due to income I am looking for ways to feed my animals year around. I know free ranging but need to know about winter months feeding. Any suggestions?

Thanks,

Lobo

If you have a few acres to spare, you can winter graze. Winter grazing is where you leave a few acres ungrazed for most of the Fall and let the grass grow. Then when winter comes in, you let your animals graze on that.

Cows especially will bury their heads down into the snow if they are rewarded with green grass. Its not growing of course, but its still green. In the mean time you supplement their diet with mineral supplements. More then likely they will lose a bit of weight, but this is normal for a cow. Only when we started fattening them up 24/7/365 did cattle gain all year. Anyway, when Spring comes in and the grass starts growing, their metabolism kicks in and they start eating again, they put on the pounds.

There is a lot more to winter grazing then what I am explaining here, so do some research and check into it. Just keep in mind you do need some extra acres, because once those cows chomp down that winter killed grass, its not growing back like it does in the winter. You have to have enough to sustain them all winter. (It will save you lots of money though).

[annabella1]

I also read once how Paul Bunyan found "babe" the blue ox starving in a snow bank. He put a pair of green sunglasses on the ox, and it ate the snow and survived ;D :D

[MooseToo]

I also read once how Paul Bunyan found "babe" the blue ox starving in a snow bank. He put a pair of green sunglasses on the ox, and it ate the snow and survived ;D :D
i heard about that, too - but, i don't believe a word of it -

[annabella1]

I don't believe it either but I did read it.