View Full Version : shotgun/rifle combo
ldsparamedic
07-22-2009, 09:27 AM
I have heard about a single shot shotgun with a single shot rifle paired together as a single unit. Is this for real? If so, who makes them?
wittey
07-22-2009, 09:35 AM
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=134299324
OzarksJohn
07-22-2009, 11:26 AM
Howdy.
Savage made a bunch of them in years past, and they are still the most common on the market even though I don't think they still make them. Model 24 series I seem to recall. There were .22's and .22 mags over 20's or .410's being the most common along with .30/30's, .223's, .357's, .222's over 12's and likely other combos. A friend of mine had a .22 over 20 that I really enjoyed hunting squirrels with. Another friend has a .22 mag over 20 ga that he did all his hunting with for years til he graduated to a proper rifle for deer and elk.OzarksJohn
PS
There were also some o/u Valmet guns as well. Also single shot switch barrel guns made by Rossi and NEF that sort of serve a similar purpose except you have to change barrels to go from rifle to shotgun.OJ
There are the Russian made models too, i looked at one today...
When i was a young boy, my dad bought a Savage 22WMR/410, and i hunted with it quite a bit. It didn't shoot both bbls to the sights either, we just lived with that fact, even though it was REALLY annoying!
The problem with all of the cheaper combo guns is, rarely do both bbls shoot to the sights the way they should, that's one of the reasons they are cheapo. It takes time to make them right, and time is money.
I've had a lot of different models over the years, and of them all, the Valmet models are by far the best. They are a "quality" made firearm, and you can easily adjust the bbls to any load you'd ever want to use, to the sights.
For a lot more $$, there's 3, 4 and even 5 bbled guns. Of those combo's, more 3 bbled guns were made than the others, and you sometimes see pretty good deals on old models that are still in good shooting condition.
DM
hunter63
07-22-2009, 04:17 PM
This is Reminton's version, I believe made in Russia.
Most folks compain about the sights from barrel to barrel not hitting in the same place.
http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/combination_shotgun-Rifle/SPR94_specs.asp
Incoming
07-22-2009, 05:50 PM
I've had a 22/20 ga. Savage that I put a 4X scope with see-through mounts that worked well for small game as well as ducks and deer.
ldsparamedic
07-22-2009, 08:07 PM
Thanks guys. I thought it was a joke. Savage has a 20g/223 combo for about 600 bucks. It might make a nice trunk gun.
You can buy a used Valmet 412 for around $600, and it's 10 times the gun the Savage will ever be. It's too bad Savage doesn't spend a bit more time, getting the bbls to shoot together, as it makes all the difference in the world.
DM
A good friend of mine had a Mod. 24 .22LR over 20 Gs. That .22 was a tackdriver, and could make one ragged hole about the size of a dime at 25 yds. He's still got it.
jim
Would love to pick up a triple barrel, but it's hard to find a good one that someone doesn't want an arm and a leg for.
Would love to pick up a triple barrel, but it's hard to find a good one that someone doesn't want an arm and a leg for.
In the last few months, i was offered two different drillings. One was scoped and they were asking $1,500.00. The other was a hammer drilling, and needed a little work. I could have bought it for $500.00.
Most guys have a closet full of guns and then say they can't afford a drilling... lol That always makes me laugh...
DM
I'm a cheapskate. ;) :)
You can buy 20 of those cheapo guns, and you will never make the money at time of resale as you will buying one decent priced drilling. AND, a drilling is much easier to sale too, even after using it for many years...
DM
Oh I don't buy cheapo guns, I just look for good bargains.
Oh I don't buy cheapo guns, I just look for good bargains.
You also said,
Would love to pick up a triple barrel, but it's hard to find a good one that someone doesn't want an arm and a leg for.
Dang, i'd think a drilling worth at least $2,200.00 should be a bargain at $1,500.00... Actually, i'm betting it sold at closer to $1,300.00.
Now, you don't think that was a "bargain", and good profit if a guy turned it AFTER using it for a time???
There's some good buys out there on drillings right now, if you just take the time to look around, and there's some money to be made on them too.
DM
Definitely a bargain there, I'll have to keep a closer eye out in my area and the auction sites.
MooseToo
07-24-2009, 01:30 PM
Most folks compain about the sights from barrel to barrel not hitting in the same place.
strange, isn't it - you'd think with both the sights mounted on the barrel that accuracy would not be affected -
strange, isn't it - you'd think with both the sights mounted on the barrel that accuracy would not be affected -
Accuracy isn't the problem... The problem is, when you sight in the rifle, then the shotgun isn't sighted in properly. If you use those sights, and sight in the shotgun, then the rifle isn't sighted in.
A "properly" made combo gun, will shoot "both" bbls. to the same point of aim at the same time, with the sights.
DM
Anon001
07-24-2009, 03:35 PM
My best friend has a 410/22 over under. It's an older one that he's had for probably at least 25 or 30 years. He has quite a collection of rifles and shotguns but the over under is his favorite.
flatwater
07-24-2009, 05:03 PM
On Mine I just sight for the rifle barrel and learn to kentucky windage the shot gun barrel.
Ive seen a few at the local gun shop most I find are .22/16gauge or 12 gauge. I saw one in 30.30/12 gauge.
The 22/16 gauge was about $250 I think. I dont think thats too bad 2 single shot guns in one comes out to about the same price as 2 single shot firearms?
-B
Ive seen a few at the local gun shop most I find are .22/16gauge or 12 gauge. I saw one in 30.30/12 gauge.
The 22/16 gauge was about $250 I think. I dont think thats too bad 2 single shot guns in one comes out to about the same price as 2 single shot firearms?
-B
I'm doubting they were 16ga., probably 20 ga...
DM
Pitdog
07-25-2009, 05:56 PM
Remington has discontinued the Russian O/U's, so they are no longer available for sale other than the auction and used market.
Complaints about poor shooting are from people who don't know how to adjust and tune the barrels properly, they do have adjustment built in, and often require it from someone who really wants to use it. However, parts are hard to come by since Remington doesn't do their own warranty work, EAA does, and it is a nightmare to get service or help.
The Savage is a good solid trustworthy bargain, and will do well, they are put together nicely.
Don't forget the Springfield Armory gun, the 22 Hornet or LR over .410, especially for a backpacking or truck gunning.
Actually, the Russian guns are still coming in, just not through Remington.
Those Russian guns do have adjustment, but i think in only one direction, if it's out in the other, your screwed, and many folks complained about them. I know a guy who bought three of them, and only one would get even close to be adjusted properly. He now has a Valmet 412, problem solved.
The Russian guns are just like Savage, it's the "luck of the draw", and very few have a winner...
DM
Pitdog
07-26-2009, 10:34 AM
Yes, EAA is still bringing them in, I don't know what they are calling them these days though.
They are adjustable to go in both directions though, I have the instructions in a PDF file somewhere, I will try to dig them up.
I have always had good luck with the Savages, and would love to own a couple myself, they are getting quite expensive for what they are and very popular. I have plenty of this and that and cannot justify the expense. I need optics right now more than ANYthing else firearms related.
ArmySGT.
07-26-2009, 06:16 PM
I held a Holland & Holland "Cape Gun" once. This gun was gorgeous, but I couldn't afford the $80,000 price tag.
Yes, EAA is still bringing them in, I don't know what they are calling them these days though.
They are adjustable to go in both directions though, I have the instructions in a PDF file somewhere, I will try to dig them up.
I'd like to see that file, as last i heard they only had a crappy elevation adjustment using modules, and nothing for windage. One of my friends EAA's, was off 6" at 50 yards, and EAA told him to "split the difference" when aiming!
I know a guy that collects the Savages, and he reports the same kind of problems with them. I know the ones i had, had that problem, and that's just not good enough for me, "especially" when i'm going to depend on that gun! NO "Kentucky windage" for me, thankyou!
DM
ldsparamedic
07-26-2009, 10:46 PM
Uh guys, what is drilling?
Uh guys, what is drilling?
Drilling is the German work for 3... The Germans have a different name for each configuration of the bbls... Here's some of them,
http://www.fototime.com/1A6FF2AD3D36328/standard.jpg
DM
Another great option would be to get a Springfield Armory M6. I have wanted one of these for years myself, but they are currently out of production.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=134881175
An article about them:
http://www.oldjimbo.com/survival/v-shrake/m6.html
A little more information on them, taken with a grain of salt:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Springfield_Armory_M6_Scout
Pitdog
07-31-2009, 08:35 AM
Build one Sgt! Or did you NOT get the skills from CO??
j/k
I sent a resume' to Krieghoff out of curiosity. Would love to get more into that line of work.
I'll see if I can find that pdf file DM, having worked for Remington I had a LOT of information sotred, and I KNOW I have it somewhere. If not I'll get someone to forward it to me. EAA is NOT really into customer service, and didn't care if anyone was happy with them or not.
Strange about the Savages, as I stated above, people around here absouletly love them, and no one has ever complained about them to me other than the triggers being crap. Really popular when Turkey and Deer season overlapped way back when.
I'm studying Stalking Rifles now, trying to build up a knowledge base to build one, we shall see how that goes. Eventually I will work on some Drillings and Capes. I DO LOVE the classic DOuble Rifles.
I know a guy that collects those Savages... He has over a hundred of them, and he says the same thing flatwater said above... I just can't live with a gun that you have to aim over there to hit over here!
I think your going to be disappointed when you find i'm right about the Russian combo's... Combo guns are no good to me "if" you can't adjust BOTH bbls to shoot to the same POI, as they are my "go to gun".
Americans have the "more is better" mentality... They would rather have 5, 10 or more guns that are "almost" right, than spend a few bucks more to get one or two that are "right"! I see this time and time again on forums, including this forum. Folks bragging about all of their guns, and then slam the next guy for spending the SAME amount of money, (or less) on one or two higher grade guns.
You can buy a used Valmet 412 for not much more than the Savage combo's, And, it will be hammerless, single or double triggers, have built in "quick attach" scope mount on the bbls, they are stone reliable, and you can regulate the bbls to just about any load you'd ever want to shoot. Plus, with the Valmet, there were lots of different bbls made for it... O/U 12 and 20ga. shot bbls., combo's in many different cartridges, and several double rifle sets...
http://www.fototime.com/1D6F2443ED3D78F/standard.jpg
Well, i guess that's what makes the world go around...
DM
Pitdog
07-31-2009, 10:44 AM
Subject: SPR 22 BARREL REGULATION
The SPR 22 has a jack screw underneath the barrels that can be rotated this is used for barrel regulation. It will only move the right barrel the left barrel will remain stationary. If the barrel is adjusted outward this will throw the bullet impact inward. If the barrel is adjusted inward it will throw the bullet impact outward.
Store this away for future reference. J
Subject: SPR 22 BARREL REGULATION
The SPR 22 has a jack screw underneath the barrels that can be rotated this is used for barrel regulation. It will only move the right barrel the left barrel will remain stationary. If the barrel is adjusted outward this will throw the bullet impact inward. If the barrel is adjusted inward it will throw the bullet impact outward.
Store this away for future reference. J
Is the SPR22 a combo gun??? OR a double rifle???
DM
Pitdog
08-01-2009, 07:55 AM
Either or. Some are rifle over rifle, others are rifle over rifle. There are model variations, but regulation is the same, I can't cut and past the entire file and pictures.
Pitdog
08-01-2009, 07:56 AM
Rifle over SHOTGUN. Sorry. 12 .30/06 etc
Either or. Some are rifle over rifle, others are rifle over rifle. There are model variations, but regulation is the same, I can't cut and past the entire file and pictures.
pit,
The SPR 22 is a double rifle, NOT a "combo" gun. They are side by side, so they are NOT the same gun. The Rem. "combo" guns are SPR 94's, and they are over/unders...
This thread is about "combo guns", and i stated the Russian/Rem. combo's don't have bbl. "windage" adjustment. And they don't. You have yet to prove that they do...
"If" a "combo" gun doesn't shoot the bbls to the same POI, then you have to use flats "kentucky windage", and that's unaceptable...
Telling us how to regulate a DR, has nothing to do with this thread, and also has nothing to do with a "combo"... If you use the regulation you stated on a combo, (0/U) it still wouldn't adjust for windage, just elevation...
Anyway, i don't mean to be argumentive, i just want to keep the facts straight for the others who read this thread...
DM
ZOOBEAR
08-07-2009, 11:41 PM
I have owned a few Savage combos in the past and I always enjoyed them. My favorite was a .222 over a .410. I loved this gun for yotes and it was the only one I ever saw in this configuration. I never worried too much about point of aim on these guns because I sighted in the rifle barrel and I never use sights when shooting a shotgun. If I was shooting slugs I would probably be a lot more worried about it. LOL
I don't believe these guns were meant to be target grade weapons but were designed as Campers Companions. I always thought they were a fun gun to plink with.
Pitdog
08-09-2009, 10:10 AM
Haven't been back and checked this thread in a while.
Yes the SPR 22 is a double rifle, OOPS. I copied the wrong effen file. The SPR 94s ARE combo guns, and there is a jack screw at the front band that is moveable to regulate the barrels, left and right. I have done it on 7.62x39 over 12 and 30 06 over 12, both times it brought them in line.
If you have to use KY windage and don't like it, don't buy the effen gun. Getting what you pay for is part of the deal, and worse than barrel regulation on 'affordable' combo guns is the trigger pull that makes people pull the firearm in the direction of their dominant trigger finger, which may account for some of their trouble more so than regulation.
So to PROVE what I am talking about I am waiting on a reply from some folks at Remington, and since their website has since taken down the information on the discontinued models, I can't point out what I am talking about on the description.
It really isn't that big of a deal though, and don't worry, you were't being argumentative, more like a condescending dyck. I have so many of these stupid files about crap for guns that I opened and and sent some info that wasn't on par with the thread, so for that I apologize.
Zoobear, I am on board with you. They were fun and for all intended purposes, they were great. They certainly aren't the guild guns of Ferlach's best, but hey for folks like me the mediocre American guns that do what I want them to do will also go with the mediocre American beer that does what I want it to do, as long as it is cold.
Haven't been back and checked this thread in a while.
Yes the SPR 22 is a double rifle, OOPS. I copied the wrong effen file. The SPR 94s ARE combo guns, and there is a jack screw at the front band that is moveable to regulate the barrels, left and right. I have done it on 7.62x39 over 12 and 30 06 over 12, both times it brought them in line.
If you have to use KY windage and don't like it, don't buy the effen gun. Getting what you pay for is part of the deal, and worse than barrel regulation on 'affordable' combo guns is the trigger pull that makes people pull the firearm in the direction of their dominant trigger finger, which may account for some of their trouble more so than regulation.
So to PROVE what I am talking about I am waiting on a reply from some folks at Remington, and since their website has since taken down the information on the discontinued models, I can't point out what I am talking about on the description.
It really isn't that big of a deal though, and don't worry, you were't being argumentative, more like a condescending dyck. I have so many of these stupid files about crap for guns that I opened and and sent some info that wasn't on par with the thread, so for that I apologize.
Zoobear, I am on board with you. They were fun and for all intended purposes, they were great. They certainly aren't the guild guns of Ferlach's best, but hey for folks like me the mediocre American guns that do what I want them to do will also go with the mediocre American beer that does what I want it to do, as long as it is cold.
First off, your personal attack on me makes it hilarious that you would call me condesending and a dyck! HA HA HA HA Did you miss a few days at charm school?? lol lol AND, seeing as you want to prolong "your" mizzery, i'll post REMINGTONS exploded parts view for both the rimfire and centerfire SPR 94's...
Rimfire,
http://www.fototime.com/03F3F73A3385A28/orig.jpg
Centerfire,
http://www.fototime.com/87806C2824EADF0/orig.jpg
Perhaps you'd like to point out that "magic" adjuster YOU used to adjust the "windage" of the two bbls to get them to shoot together???? Cause, there isn't one in either REMINGTON manual that i got these pictures from! And, NO mention of one in the manuals either... (NO surprise there, as my buddy owned "two" of these rifles, and neither had a windage adjustment)
As for the Savages, here's what "i" keep reading all over the net... http://www.huntingpa.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=495474
I won't lower myself to your level and call you names like you did me... And, seeing as those two REMINGTON exploded parts picts put's it to bed for all the other posters to see who is full of it, and who isn't, i'm done with this thread...
DM
ArmySGT.
08-10-2009, 01:58 PM
Build one Sgt! Or did you NOT get the skills from CO??
j/k
I sent a resume' to Krieghoff out of curiosity. Would love to get more into that line of work.
Never did find a SxS three lug action that I could afford. I briefly considered converting an OU into 12G over 30.06. I was going to turn down a barrel and chamber it in 30.06 and sweat it into the lower barrel of a 12g OU. If the lugs didn't fail, and the primers didn't fail, and if the inertia firing pins lightweight and small mass didn't fail. It could work. Would be expensive to find out though.
It was the novelty that appealed to me since I don't hunt. I have a savage 24f in .22lr over .410g for a foraging gun if I ever needed one.
I learned how to make a small fortune in the Gunsmithing business! Start with a large fortune first.
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