lung cancer

[momma_to_seven_chi]

I know this is a morbid question. Sorry.
Has anyone watched a loved one die from metastatic lung cancer? How long are they conscious? My sister is in the hospital again, and in so much pain. I mean gasping for air crying out shreiks with every breath type pain. She is on morophine IV, vicodin and darvocet pills, and some new one they just added called torodol? They keep trying new things, not all at the same time. There was one called wellbutrin, but some idiot doctor was afraid she would be addicted, so they won't use it very often.

How long do people last in that type of pain? She is so discouraged and just wants to either get better or reach the end of the disease. She has two chest tubes and the chemo port. She also has tremors and seizures now and spread to the bones in the ribs and chest. How long does this last? Our dad died from cancer, but he didn't have that type of pain.

[CastIronCook2]

Heartbreaking. I am so very sorry.

I watched my first mother-in-law die of lung cancer. She was in hospital at the time. At the end, she went into convulsions. I don't think she was conscious at that time.

The idiot doctor is doing your sister no good withholding an effective narcotic for fear she'll become addicted. When is she going to become addicted, for God's sake? In heaven?

Insist that she be given the most effective pain control possible, no matter what it takes. Is she under hospice care? She should be allowed to quietly slip away under whatever medication it takes to ease her pain. It really makes me mad that she's being allowed to suffer so.

Watch her eyes. Does she look at you, or does she seem to be looking somewhere else, almost beyond your shoulder? I've noticed that once that faraway look comes, the end is not long in following...a couple of days at most.

I pray for her easy passing. And your welfare. Gosh, Momma7, you didn't need this grief in your life right now. {{{Momma}}}

[backlash]

My Dad died from small cell lung cancer.
It wasn't fun to witness.
He was a strong healthy man and he went down hill pretty fast.
If your sister is not getting the pain meds she needs then get hospice involved ASAP.
They will give her what she needs to control the pain.
Th Doctors are limited in what they can do believe it or not.
She might have to leave the hospital but Hospice will come to her and help.
Wellbutrin is an anti depressant not a pain med as far as I know.
Someone needs to be assertive and get her what she needs.
If the Doc won't cooperate then go over his head and keep after them until they help her.
DO NOT let them push you around. Be forceful but not threating.
My deepest condolences to you and your family.
backlash

[momma_to_seven_chi]

We discussed hospice today, but she doesn't want it because she doesn't want to die at home. She has a husband and children. She just doesn't want them to see it up close. She wants to be in the hospital because she just doesn't want her children seeing everything that happens.
I didn't realize hospice can give better pain relief. I will talk to her again in the morning. Her husband is staying overnight with her in the hospital. I will go back in the morning.
The hospital offered something that would make her "forget" the pain. It's not another pain killer, but they said she would forget it.

She can't focus her eyes. They roll all the time due to the cancer spread to the brain.

[MelleeRN]

First, I am sorry for what your sister and you are going through. Below is what the drugs are and why they are used. It does sound like she needs hospice. They can control her pain, and at this point it seems to be a matter of quality of life instead of surviving this horrible disease process.

wellbutrin is a antidepressant is will do nothing for pain. Dosing is normally once a day.

Toradol is a pain medication that helps with bone and kidney pain. The reason this is given is because bone pain is not easily managed with any medication, yet this medication does act on different receptors that an narcotic; such as, morphine or darvocet, which in the long run increase pain relief.

You mentioned seizures, this brings the question up as to why she is having them, if the cancer has spread to her brain it could be one reason.

At this point, doctors with in the hospital are very limited on what they can give her for pain. It sounds like they are giving her the limit of what is allowed with in the hospital setting. I know that it is hard, but your sister and the family need to talk about end off life care, which will allow her to be at home and have pain relief. Yes, this means that she will die sooner than later, due to not receiving chemo, but it also means that she will not be enduring the amount of pain she is currently in for the remainder of her life, If the cancer has spread the way you have stated. I believe hospice care for her would be the best.

I wish that i could tell you something that would help, but there really is nothing with in the hospital setting. Good luck in what ever you and your sister choose. Our thoughts and prays are with you and your family.

[Terri]

Have you tried turning a fan on her?

We used to use it in the nursing home for easing the feeling of shortness of breath: medically it does nothing but the patients often say it makes them feel less SOB.

Alas, every one is different!

Could she get more meds in a nursing home? I do not know all of the legalities, the dopctors prescribed meds and we gave them. But, the patients at teh nursing home acted more comfortable than your poor sister!

(((GENTLE HUGS)))))

[momma_to_seven_chi]

wellbutrin is a antidepressant is will do nothing for pain. Dosing is normally once a day.



I must have that name wrong. Is there a similarly named drug that helps people sleep but is addictive? That is the one that helped, but they stopped it do to possible addiction. I must have the name of the drug wrong. There were so many.

When they tried to seal the lung bag to the lungs so they wouldn't collapse again they put sterile talc through a large syringe into the chest tube area. That greatly increased the pain. The pulmonologist said they do it to irritate the lung tissue space to prevent more fluid accumulation. They said they use to use Tetracycline, but this is less expensive and works just as well to prevent fluid from again collapsing the lungs. She also has cancer spread to the ribs and sternum, so that might be part of the pain.

[CastIronCook2]

Know that our thoughts are with you. Advocate for the best possible pain relief for your dear sister, no matter what. Hospice doesn't have to be at home; it can follow a person to a "convalescent hospital."

[sissy]

So sorry for your sister. May God ease her pain, & comfort her, her family, & you. Prayers for you all.
Sissy

[MelleeRN]

I must have that name wrong. Is there a similarly named drug that helps people sleep but is addictive? That is the one that helped, but they stopped it do to possible addiction. I must have the name of the drug wrong. There were so many.

When they tried to seal the lung bag to the lungs so they wouldn't collapse again they put sterile talc through a large syringe into the chest tube area. That greatly increased the pain. The pulmonologist said they do it to irritate the lung tissue space to prevent more fluid accumulation. They said they use to use Tetracycline, but this is less expensive and works just as well to prevent fluid from again collapsing the lungs. She also has cancer spread to the ribs and sternum, so that might be part of the pain.

Dear Momma_to _seven_children,

This use of a fan gives the clients a feeling that they are getting air via it blowing in their face. From what another had said about pain, those in a nursing home are in less pain. This is because they are not enduring what you are describing you sister has. From what you have said, it sounds like your sister had unresectable/ advance lung cancer. If that is the case, it also sounds like you are describing malignant plural effusions, which are related to the chemo, radiation, and cancer. Normally, clients experience these in the last 2 to 3 weeks of life. The goal of treatment with talc and/or bleomycin is normally palliative and meant to relive symptoms to improve quality of life by allowing the lungs to seal, which decrease the fluid buildup with in the lungs. The documented success rate using the talcs or bleomycin slurry is 75% to 100%, which is great, but it is only a palliative measure. As for the sleeping medicine. At this point it does not matter if you sister becomes addicted or not. Demand medication. Trust me when I tell you, if you make a loud enough ruckus and force the nurses to call every hour on the hour the doctors, they will give in on the medication in relation to holding it due to fear of addiction. they might be holding it because it can cause your sister to go into respiratory arrest. At this point, the medication that she might need to relive her pain can also be the same medication that could place her in a medical coma or lead to death. This is a concern for the doctors an nurses because no one can legally give a fatal dose. Even though there are times when putting someone into a coma would ease them it is still unethical. I do really hope I am 100% wrong about the reason and the time frame, yet from what you are describing, it does not sound good at all. Our families wishes and thoughts are with you and your family.

[momma_to_seven_chi]

It is advanced lung cancer that cannot be resected. And there is a plural effusion. I knew time was short. They told her 2mo, but it looks like days to me. We thought maybe the pain was due to spread to the bones/ribs, but it might simply be the lung damage. She just looks like she is near the end, although her pulse ox is still over 80%.
They went ahead and took the chest tubes out today. They were trying to send her home this evening, but nobody is sure if she will be able to breath to make the trip. We left, so her husband and children could spend some time alone with her.
Thanks for your expertise and information.

[MelleeRN]

I wish there was more I could say or do to help you.

[CastIronCook2]

At this point I would be sitting beside her, whispering to her that it is all right, that there IS an exit, and telling her it's all right to leave. I would be giving her permission to leave, silently. Some folks try and try to hang on past their endurance point, because they feel they cannot let their loved ones down.

"Death" is not the worst thing that happens to us. At a certain point, it is God's gift.

Go toward the light, sweet sister.

[momma_to_seven_chi]

She came home last Sunday and went back to a different hospital this Thursday am because she couldn't catch her breath. She is unconscious now. They are giving her all the morphine she needs. I am really thankful she went to a different hospital. It is a small place with a long-term care unit rather than the large hospital with the oncology center. They are much kinder in some ways because treatment is not their goal at this little hospital. Pain control is their main goal now.
She is on 10L Oxygen, but her pulse is still 120+ and her oxygen levels are low.
I just wanted to let you know that she did find a better option for medical care that controlled her pain.

[backlash]

My thoughts and prayers are with you.
backlash

[CastIronCook2]

momma7, thanks for posting in with this update. Good palliative care is what she needs right now. I'm so relieved to hear that she's getting it.

God bless you and keep you and your sister.

[stilltryinat50]

(((((((((((Momma to seven)))))))))))) Hugs to you and Sis. Prayers for both of you and your families.