BUSINESS BAND UHF

[gunsmoke]

I am looking at business band UHF licensed for my retreat/homestead. I'm more concerned about comminicating on "the ranch" securely rather than general communications. I can licsense a single frquency and a repaeter for about $500 and will have a 40 mile radius excusive on the frequency. The same raedios can be programmed to operate on MURS and GMRS IF we want that capability but the output has to be reduced to 6 miliwatts to transmit on them but nothing special to monitor those frequencies. The public-safety grade equipment and the 50 mile exclusivity on the frequency are what is most attractive to me but the capability to use serious output power equate to privacy reliability and security.

This is not intended as the only or even the primary communications capability but is for an "on the ranch" and roaming nearby within 10-15 miles of the homestead capability.

Does anyone have any experience with private business bamd radio and do you have any tips equipment recommendations pitfalls to look out for etc?

Thanks in advance.

[Franz©]

I've got enough years of 2 way experience to know 99.237% of all radio salesmen can walk under a snake's belly without bending. I've built everything from 31mhz systems to 2.3 gig systems, and a few links on both 70mhz and Gemlink microwave. You think I might know something?

First, I will tell you most of what you have stated is off the money.

Why do you elect to go UHF as opposed to VHF?
Who told you licensing costs $500?
Who told you you can do 50 miles without a repeater?
Will you need to deal with Line A compliance?
Have you done a propogation study?
Have you checked freq availability in your area?
What is the terrain like?
How far to the nearest landing strip? Will you be able to erect a tower?
How many systems do you intend to buy before you build something that has a chance of working?

WHO told you there is any privacy on 2 way systems?

There are a bookfull of things youneed to do before looking for radios.

[rAcErRicK]

Just another opinion Smoke. I spent many years in the CB thing, some legal, some not :wink:, and had many friends in the ham radio thing, and watched them and absorbed as much as I could, although never really "going over" to the ham side, but that was years ago. Being a little more mature now :smile:I am seriously considering going on a low budget ham venture, due mostly due to our oncoming national crises situation, which is my reasoning behind expressing an opinion. Even though privacy is a concern to you, there are MANY frequencies on MANY of the ham bands where that should not be a problem, but as the previous poster mentioned, if you are on ANY radio frequency, total privacy does not exist. If someone built your radio, someone else can build one to listen to yours. There are only so many radio frequencies. The way I see it, there are tremendous advantages to having a ham radio, in that you and your people can select a predetermined freq. and monitor it exclusively for semi private communications, and at the same time, reserve the ability to communicate with others, which in coming times I am sure will have tremendous advantages. Licensing was at one time a hassle to say the least, but today is definitely not the case, and is a very simple process.

My friendly advice to you is to find someone who is knowledgeable, yet has nothing to sell, or gain by your selection of a "family" radio setup. Preferably a ham licensed individual of which there are several on this forum. They have no reason to steer you in any other direction other than that which will most effectively serve you best, for the least amount of capital outlay. Good luck in your endeavors.

[gunsmoke]

First, I will tell you most of what you have stated is off the money.
There are a bookfull of things youneed to do before looking for radios.

Why do you elect to go UHF as opposed to VHF?

Because VHF is overutilized in my area of operation and UHF utilization is very very low.

Who told you licensing costs $500?

The below 800 mhz Frequency Coordinators that I contacted all explained the process and to get the frequency search for a single frequency and a repeater the average cost to get the application prepared and submirred was below $500.

Who told you you can do 50 miles without a repeater?

Absolutly NO ONE where do seem that I said I can get 50 miles without a repeater? I specifically said I was planning on a repeater and was looking for an effective radius of 10 to 15 miles. You REALLY should re-read my post.

Will you need to deal with Line A compliance?

I honestky have no idea! I don't know what "LINE A COMPLIANCE" is. Unlike others here apparently I was NOT born omnipotent. I do NOT know everything I need to know if I did I would have never posted here asking for advice/help. That's one of the reasons forums such as this exist and that is for those less experienced or knowledgeable on a particular subject can easily ccommunicate with those more knowledgable for the sharing of knowledge experience and wisdom.

Or did i miss the right turn to the forum and end up in the woodshed?

Have you done a propogation study?

No

Have you checked freq availability in your area?

To a very limited extent from the public record to find which of the bands were heavily utilized in the area of operations and which ones were not. Please refer to the answer to your FIRST QUESTION ABOVE. It is my understanding that this function is for the FREQUENCY COORDINATOR to do as part of the application process.

What is the terrain like?

From a geological perspective very very flat over the square mile involved the lowest to highest elevation differential is a little under 300'.

How far to the nearest landing strip?

There is a private VFR strip 9 1/2 miles to the east the one runway is oriented N - S.

Will you be able to erect a tower?

Mot all alone but with the help of am experienced tower erection crew and a crane, I think so. My son-in-law owns a company that installs cell towers in seven states I think I can get a discount.

How many systems do you intend to buy before you build something that has a chance of working?

None. Is this something you are in the habit of doing? Personally, I intend to approach this by gathering as much information as I possibly can (please see my thoughts above on the purpose of forums such as this) so that I can discuss intelligently with the professionals in the field that I will consult before I spend any money on anything. If I didn't already have nine wells on my property I would consult at least two experienced local water well drillers before I started drilling a well since I've neverr done that before and again I was not born omnipotent.

WHO told you there is any privacy on 2 way systems?

NO ONE and I never said anyone did. I was speaking of privacy in a relative sense as opposed to using CB, FMRS. 2 meter 10 meter, etc. I was not speaking of privacy in the sense of an Austrian Spahrbuch or Wertpapeirbuch Coded bank account.

[gunsmoke]

Racer Thank You for your comments.

The family and I have acquired software and begun studying for liscnsure. The software includes commercial licsense elements and lifetime updates so it is part of the process. I plan to sit the first HAM exam in NOV. I have a good friend and former neighbor who is big in HAM and was an FAA radar operator before he retired about 15 years ago and has maintained all his commercial licsenses. He originally got into radar in the Navy in the late 1950s.

He is the one who is guiding me on the HAM path and the one who suggested that I look into the business band UHF. I'll leave the details of his reasoning out because they deal with issues propriatary to my family.

The privacy issue is grossly over-emphasized. Perhaps I should have been more clear that I was speaking in a RELATIVE sense not as in absolutely SECURE communications only as to privacy REALATIVE to the more common and prolific GMRS, CB, and even HAM. There are thousands of people within 20 miles of our location using those frequencies, there are way less than 100 legally operating on UHF within 200 miles. I have had scanners since the days when they used crystals so I understand that if it radiates a person can catch it.

[Franz©]

Normally, I'd willingly help you, but since you're so arrogant I won't.

[gunsmoke]

I don't know how I will EVER sleep! I guess I violated your patent on arrogance?
:meeting:

[Franz©]

I don't know how I will EVER sleep! I guess I violated your patent on arrogance?
:meeting:

There was a place in time when I would have just punched some information into the computer to my right, and given you a few thousand dollars worth of information from software that I have a lot of time and money invested in free of charge. Times have changed, the government has changed, and you pissed me off. Good luck finding your information.

Yes, I am arrogant, I have the knowledge base ro support arrogance!

[12vman]

I would work with your local coordinator so if you step on someones toes, he'll get his butt kicked.. LOL

I have a Motorola M1225 UHF Rptr. with the duplexer I'd sell pretty cheap. It's narrow band capable and I'm sure that will be a requirement with all new licences. I'll even program it and tune the duplexer for ya!

[gunsmoke]

Thanks for the offer. I have always had an addinity for Motorola, I still cannot veleive how a company with their experience in the communications industry screwed the pooch not once but twice with IRIDIUM and NEXTEL oh well.

I'll keep your offer in mind and let you know with a PM for a price when the rime comes I'm still investigatingevaluating the possibilities.

I've had an in depth discussian with one coordinator and they have a good grasp of what I want to do and have been very helpful and forthcoming spending hours explaining things, with me and haven't charged me a penny for anything so far. My HAM buddy is very impressed with them too. He is very techie having been involved with all that miles long antenna vvlf submarine comm stuff as a comm techie in the Navy back in the 50's if I don't understand something he explains it to me.

Yhanks again!

[12vman]

Yep.. The spectrum only has so many frequencies and there's a lot of radios out there. The coordinator will usually steer you right and if he don't, He's gotta figure it out.. LOL

As for Motorola.. well, it's a job.. They ain't what they used to be..

Good luck and if you need any equipment, let me know. I run into some from time to time. Just sold a big stack of Maratrac VHF trunk mount 100 watt mobiles "complete" for $25/ ea.

[gunsmoke]

I have a cuz who is a CWO in the USA he works on their trunked system since the 1980's and he is nearby me. He tells me the mil uses primarily ICOM for their handhelds and told me that he is really impressed with their quality. But I'm just learning and feeling my way throughn this, that is something I have been encouraged to do by all the professionals I have consulted so far and that is to shop for used equipment.

Everyone has told me that there is so much slightly used stuff out there that they don't know how the radio sales people sell new stuff, one has suggested that the only way they do it is to take trade ins on the stuff they sold last year at ten cents on the dollar! LOLs!

My HAM friend sent me the link to an ebay search and while I'll refrain from commenting on EBAY and on the VENDORS who do "business" there the price action is interesting to say the least.

Thanks again when we settle in on something I'll let you know what we're looking for and see if you've got something to fill the bill.