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mtl272
10-22-2009, 01:13 AM
hi, we are looking for a "deal" on a wood stove that Dave Ramsey would be proud of, we're on a real tight budget. from what i've been reading woood stoves are a good way to save on heating costs, i can get pallets,non- pressure treated, and wood fairly easy cause i drive a roll-off truck. still reading trying to figure out which is better for Atl. Ga. area pellets v.s. wood. leaning toward wood , cause i have an acre of pine and small hard woods i have to clear before i can plant a garden. i'll be removing or pipping in to the builders grade fire place insert. thanks for any leads, opinions,etc.

kawalekm
10-22-2009, 12:25 PM
Hi MTL
Check out your local craigslist posts. I checked for the Atlanta area and immediately found a couple of stoves for sale.

http://atlanta.craigslist.org/nat/hsh/1415968063.html
http://atlanta.craigslist.org/atl/for/1430613435.html

I most certainly would go with wood. A wood stove will still run with the power off, while a pellet stove would be off. You have to buy pellets, but you can produce your own wood. I wouldn't burn lots of pine if I had anything else, because of creosote buildup. Still, pine is better than being cold. You'll just have to get on your roof more often to clean the chimney.

Be warned right now, that a stove is NOT the most expensive component in a heating system. Depending on where you place it, the chimney pipe will cost much, much more than the stove will. You can only safely use single wall pipe 36" away from combustables, 6" away with double wall pipe, and where-ever the chimney passes through the second floor, ceilings, or roof you MUST use triple wall pipe (EXPENSIVE!). I bought a 100$ stove, for which I have had to buy 900$ worth of pipe to install! Here's a list of manufacturers that sell pipe and post installation instructions that will keep your chimney up to code. Study the instructions carefully before you start to spend money on anything.
Good luck,
Michael

http://www.hartshearth.com/
http://www.nextag.com/Home-Garden--zzwood+burning+stove+chimney+kitz2700400zB6z5---html
http://woodheatstoves.com/chimney-pipe-c-71.html

Anon001
10-22-2009, 07:09 PM
You can usually find bargains on used wood stoves. Try to stay away from the "novelty" stoves such as the Ben Franklin stove, potbelly stoves, etc. since they are very inefficient. You want an "airtight" such as an old Ashley or the equivalent.

Paul

cinok
10-23-2009, 04:54 PM
How many sqft are you looking to heat. Be careful with the P/T lumber those fumes are not the best. Pallets make good firewood.

Pokeberry Mary
10-24-2009, 11:25 AM
Last year I tracked the prices on wood stoves in our area at the stores and at Craigslist and as it gets colder they get harder to find and more spendy. If you want one for this winter--get a goin' !:)

cinok
10-25-2009, 12:37 AM
Last year I tracked the prices on wood stoves in our area at the stores and at Craigslist and as it gets colder they get harder to find and more spendy. If you want one for this winter--get a goin' !:)



I just got a Harbour freight circular they have a VOGELZANG stove for 149.99 its a good stove I know some of the local big box stores sell the same for 200+ dollars.

http://www.harborfreightusa.com/usa/itemdisplay/displayItem.do?itemid=32058&submit2=find+it

Sometimes if you get on the mailing list you will also get a 20% coupon

Teg
10-25-2009, 04:16 AM
You can also get a Tax credit for using an efficient wood stove, I don't have a lot of info on it but I did find this piece online.


The tax credit is a 30% tax credit of up to $1500 total over a two year period (2009-2010) for the purchase of a 75% efficient biomass-burning appliance. The tax credit provisions are extended improvements on the legislation that passed in October 2008. The major changes are: 1) an extension of the credit to include 2010; 2) the increase on the credit from $300 to 30% of the total cost; and 3) the lower heating value (LHV) will be used for the efficiency rating rather than the higher heating value (HHV).

ktm rider
10-25-2009, 12:06 PM
i have an acre of pine and small hard woods i have to clear before i can plant a garden. i'll be removing or pipping in to the builders grade fire place insert. thanks for any leads, opinions,etc.

A woodstove is a great way to supplement your heating needs but I would stay away from burning pine at all costs. Way too much creosote is produced by pine. Which, as everyone knows, creosote buildup in the chimney is a recipe for a good chimney fire.

As far as the stove pipe purchase goes. You do not need triple wall pipe inside the house. Only on the outside. I priced triple wall for my application and it was very expensive. I needed to go 32ft so instead of triple wall, I had a contracotr build a real chimney ( chimney block and terra cotta liner) The whole chimney only cost me $600 and that included labor.

kawalekm
10-25-2009, 01:19 PM
As far as the stove pipe purchase goes. You do not need triple wall pipe inside the house. Only on the outside.
What you are suggesting is incorrect and dangerous. Triple wall pipe is REQUIRED by CODE whenever you pass through a ceiling, the second floor, or the roof. You can not just assume that everyone can just build a brick chimney like you did.

The only way to use cheap single wall pipe is if the pipe stays 36 inches away from combustables! The only way you can safely install this pipe inside the house is if you have a "great room" type area with stove positioned in toward the center of the room. If there's open space that goes straight up to the house's roof, then you can use the cheaper pipe till you penetrate the roof, then switch to three-wall outside.

Most likely, the cheapest installation you can make is to position the stove in a room with an overhead loft that is open space till you reach the roof. If positioned near the peak of the roof you might need only 3-4 feet of class three pipe.

MTL, you should go to this website and click on "Common Installation diagrams".
http://www.northlineexpress.com/multiple_items.asp?cc=6SPDuraPlus
That will show you exactly how to safely design the chimney for your own home.

DM
10-25-2009, 01:24 PM
Around here, double wall stainless is what's used outside, and the pipe i bought is guarenteed to last my lifetime. I bought it to replace the "real" chinmey that didn't.

They make all the pieces to go through a wall or roof in a "kit", and it's priced better than if you buy it all separately.

DM

ktm rider
10-25-2009, 03:06 PM
What you are suggesting is incorrect and dangerous. Triple wall pipe is REQUIRED by CODE whenever you pass through a ceiling, the second floor, or the roof. You can not just assume that everyone can just build a brick chimney like you did.
.

Easy there kawalekm, I did NOT say you didn't need triple wall through the wall or roof. I simply stated you didn't need it inside the house. I have NEVER ever seen any triple wall pipe coming right off the stove itself.

I understand that not everyone can build a brick and mortor chimney. That is why I said "For my application". It sounded to me like the OP was looking for a cheap (and safe) way install this stove and since the brick and mortor chimney was a cheaper option for me, I figured that just maybe he would want to look into it also since it was a cheaper alternative....

kawalekm
10-26-2009, 12:54 PM
Easy there kawalekm, I did NOT say you didn't need triple wall through the wall or roof. I simply stated you didn't need it inside the house. I have NEVER ever seen any triple wall pipe coming right off the stove itself.



You are correct that the triple wall chimney pipe is not connected directly to the stove flue. But, I still don't think you understand what code requires. You most definately have to have triple wall pipe inside if the chimney is passing through a ceiling or the second floor of your house. Do you somehow think that the second floor is not inside?

The only way you can safely (to code) use single wall stove pipe inside the house is if it is in an open area at least 36" away from anything combustable. Most likely the only place you could do this is in a large living room space with an open "loft" that extends up to the structural roof. If you want the stove near a wall, use double wall stove pipe that has 6" clearance. Please everyone refer to the published installation instructions!

DM
10-26-2009, 01:15 PM
Are the codes the same in every state and location in the US? I have no idea if they are or aren't.

We use double wall pipe here, including through the wall and ceiling, BUT when going through a wall or ceiling, it goes through a piece of metal To keep it centered and away from the wall/ceiling. I guess you could call that the third wall?

DM

ktm rider
10-26-2009, 02:58 PM
You are correct that the triple wall chimney pipe is not connected directly to the stove flue. But, I still don't think you understand what code requires. You most definately have to have triple wall pipe inside if the chimney is passing through a ceiling or the second floor of your house. Do you somehow think that the second floor is not inside?

The only way you can safely (to code) use single wall stove pipe inside the house is if it is in an open area at least 36" away from anything combustable. Most likely the only place you could do this is in a large living room space with an open "loft" that extends up to the structural roof. If you want the stove near a wall, use double wall stove pipe that has 6" clearance. Please everyone refer to the published installation instructions!

You are right that you can not run single wall through a wall or ceiling. I never said that you could. But, you can run single wall inside up to the thimble through the wall or ceiling. and the clearance is 18" minimum for single wall, not 36". (see link)
This makes a HUGE differece if you have a home like mine. I have a woodstove with single wall going up the side of my greatroom with a 25ft. cathedrail ceiling. It was much much less expensive than the double or triple wall and it offers alot of heat off the pipe which is the reason for the 18" of clearance.


http://www.ofm.gov.on.ca/english/images/97-0071.gif

kawalekm
10-26-2009, 09:17 PM
Sorry, you're right there, it is 18" not 36".

I'm sorry for seeming so anal. I am just so scared that someone who doesn't pay attention to details will read something like "You do not need triple wall pipe inside the house" and decide they don't have to pay for that expensive stuff after all.

ktm rider
10-26-2009, 10:24 PM
Sorry, you're right there, it is 18" not 36".

I'm sorry for seeming so anal. I am just so scared that someone who doesn't pay attention to details will read something like "You do not need triple wall pipe inside the house" and decide they don't have to pay for that expensive stuff after all.

I agree. I would hope that people would do a bit of research on thier own before installing something as dangerous as a wood stove.

machinemaker
10-28-2009, 04:40 PM
A suggestion on wood stoves. A good freind is a stone mason and re builds / modernizes fireplaces here in colorado and has offered and given me several wood stoves. In the urban areas there are wood burning restrictions and people out of choice have gone to either gas fireplaces or pellet stoves for atmosphere rather than the "hassle of wood". So my freind gets called to redo fireplaces and most folks don't have a way to get rid of their old wood stoves.
kent

mtl272
10-28-2009, 10:32 PM
hey machine maker, what does he do with them? craiglist? if i could get a real deal i may be able to pay for shipping on a nice! stove!

mtl272
10-28-2009, 10:43 PM
Vogelzang mofel BX26E. 169 at northern tool. i have a fireplace now that has double wall pile through the roof . i was thinking of removing the fireplace, its an insert that is in the corner of the living room on an interior wall, and removing the wall that cut the corner. then bricking the two walls of the corner cause i can get the bricks for free, and build a pad out of some 3"to 4" thick driveway pavers. i guess the big ? is can i use the double wall pipe and be safe i can open up the clearances on the ceiling and the roof cheaper than buying the pipe. no inspection will be needed as it will look the same from the out side. and i live back off the road and the man will have fun getting past the gate that will soon contain an Akita security dog.

AlchemyAcres
10-28-2009, 11:16 PM
Vogelzang mofel BX26E. 169 at northern tool.


I wouldn't buy one of those things, they're Chinese garbage.
They're poorly made, won't hold a fire well and you'll go through a LOT of wood, unnecessarily, with one of those things.
Most of what Vogelzang sells is of questionable quality.
My neighbor bought a Vogelzang barrel stove kit that was a total piece of junk.
The drilled holes in the casting to hinge the door were way out at the edge of the casting and the door soon broke off.
Very poor quality control, and VERY dangerous!!!!!.


There are too many old good plate steel stoves floating around.
Look for a Fisher, especially the Baby, Mama or Papa Bear.

Forget about the Grandma Bear or any other double door woodstove where the logs are placed parallel to the door and draft openings, they never work as well as a single door stove where the logs are perpendicular to the opening and air freely moves back between the logs.

I've been around a lot of woodstoves over the years and I've never found one that held a fire as well and performed as well as the Fisher Mama bear (not that there aren't others).

Here's part of an old brochure.......

http://i33.tinypic.com/dwqs5k.jpg

http://i34.tinypic.com/2dl2a8z.jpg


~Martin

NCLee
10-29-2009, 11:50 AM
Martin, things may have changed in recent years.

But my Vogelzang BX26E has given me good service, in my shop, for over 10 years. I ordered the fire grate when I bought the stove. The only issue that I have with it is the way the lid is braced when it's opened. Open it too far and it will fall off the stove. But, that isn't really an issue for me, as I add wood through the front door. The only maintenance the stove has needed, other than emptying the ashes, is adding some stove black about once a year.

Granted, this style stove does burn more wood than one of the high end stove like my neighbor has. However, he paid somewhere around a $1000 for that stove.

Harbor Freight current mailer has the Vogelzang stove for $149.99.

A BTW.... When I grew up, my folks used "tin" heaters to heat the house. The whole thing was sheet metal and had to have a thick layer of sand in the bottom to keep from burning through. At some point, these stoves were outlawed, according to what I understand.

Anyway, they'd have to be replaced every couple of years or so, as they would burn holes through the sides. Had to be careful with fire management as it was easy to get a bright red glow along the sides. Because there was no thermal mass, other than the sand, to these stoves, it was difficult to maintain a somewhat even heat.

When comparing those "tin" heaters to the castiron Vogelzang boxstove, there really isn't any comparison. The boxstove is a huge step up. My shop is approx 200 sq ft. The stove is almost too large for my shop, because of the thermal mass, once it's hot, it only takes a small fire to keep my shop warm, even in the worse winter weather.

I haven't tried to bank a fire in it for overnight use. So, can't comment on whether it will hold a fire overnight. When I leave the shop, I close the dampers and let it burn itself out.

Again, I haven't used the ones producted in recent years. However, the one I have has served me well for it's intended purpose. In an emergency, I wouldn't have any qualms about bringing it into my home, replacing a window with metal in order to temporarily run a flue.

Just my 2-cents on the subject. Please take with a grain of salt.

Lee

kawalekm
10-29-2009, 12:12 PM
I wouldn't buy one of those things, they're Chinese garbage.
They're poorly made, won't hold a fire well and you'll go through a LOT of wood, unnecessarily, with one of those things.
Most of what Vogelzang sells is of questionable quality.
~Martin


Yup, have to agree. I bought one new in the box off of Craigslist for 65$. Felt that I payed too much! I wouldn't even consider it as a full time stove that I really have to heat something with. I just bought it as an emergency backup if I ever had to swap out a stove on short notice.

The lack of quality is instantly apparent. A good rule of thumb is if you can pick up a stove yourself without any help, the metal is so thin that it could fail easily. I'm assuming I could break this stove in half if I just lifted it over my head and tossed it on the pavement! And, it is not air tight.

Anon001
10-29-2009, 01:31 PM
From what I've read before one of those Vogelzang stoves won't heat a house. There is a big difference in heating a house 24/7 and heating a shop for part-time use. I don't think you can get a full night's burn.

Top end stoves don't have to cost much if you buy it used. In this part of the country, the most popular stoves were Ashley. I have heated with Ashleys for about 18 years. They do a good job.

I'm going to check into the Fishers. My stove will probably be replaced in the next year or two.

Paul

NCLee
10-29-2009, 02:52 PM
Yup, have to agree. I bought one new in the box off of Craigslist for 65$. Felt that I payed too much! I wouldn't even consider it as a full time stove that I really have to heat something with. I just bought it as an emergency backup if I ever had to swap out a stove on short notice.

The lack of quality is instantly apparent. A good rule of thumb is if you can pick up a stove yourself without any help, the metal is so thin that it could fail easily. I'm assuming I could break this stove in half if I just lifted it over my head and tossed it on the pavement! And, it is not air tight.

Again, I haven't used one that's currently being sold, so can't comment on quality.

However, your post made me laugh. I'm sure my stove would break into pieces if tossed on pavement. Castiron is brittle. It can't take the abuse of other metals. I wouldn't worry about dropping a 12" stainless skillet on concrete. But, I hope I never drop my 12" CI in the same spot. I'm sure I'd by crying as I picked up the pieces. As was my neighbor when a grandkid dropped a piece of fireplace wood on his prized spider. Snapped off the handle clean as a whistle.

Seriously, these box stoves don't preform like a well insulated, firebrick clad, air tight, high end stove. Yes, mine will burn more wood. Yes, I'm reasonably sure that I'd have to feed it from time to time during the night, if needed 24/7. However, I know, from experience with it, that it will heat a much larger area than my shop. And, I also know it'll give off enough heat to keep my pipes from freezing, if I don't have another means to heat my house in dead of winter with the power out.

It puts out far more heat than my fireplace. Same for the kerosene heater that we have in storage as backup plan C or D.

All I'm saying is that, based on experience with mine (about 10+ years old) it is an inexpensive way to provide supplemental/emergency heat, if needed. No, I wouldn't recommend it for full time 24/7 primary heat source, if a better alterative is available and within the user's budget.

Just 2 more cents, as everyones needs are different.

Lee

DM
10-29-2009, 08:16 PM
There is a big difference in heating a house 24/7 and heating a shop for part-time use.

This is the deciding factor for me, and the reason i wouldn't waste my money on a cheapo stove for my house. This is one of those places spending more is better!

DM

Joe
10-30-2009, 03:28 AM
This is a rough setup, some good tips, definetely cheap to built

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v86ggPO-tMU

Teg
10-31-2009, 02:24 AM
This is a rough setup, some good tips, definetely cheap to built

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v86ggPO-tMU

I'm no expert but that thing looks dangerous to me.

NCLee
10-31-2009, 08:42 AM
Since I'm on dial up and can't see it without an hour or more wait for download, can you describe it?

TIA,
Lee

AlchemyAcres
10-31-2009, 11:31 AM
Since I'm on dial up and can't see it without an hour or more wait for download, can you describe it?

TIA,
Lee

It's a video about a homemade redneck triple barrel stove with a rheostat power draft.

Yes, that thing is dangerous.

I wouldn't sleep in a building heated with something like that.

The extra long chimney, that he insists makes his stove so super efficient by extraction of nearly all the heat, is inviting a HUGE chimney fire, especially with the long horizontal run. The long "residence time" of smoke in a long cool chimney is the perfect recipe for creosote build-up.


~Martin

NCLee
11-03-2009, 06:45 PM
I'm sorry, Martin, that I didn't catch your reply earlier. Thank you for taking the time to explain the video.

Agree, that if he ran a long run to "extract all the heat", that's a big mistake. Not only the risk of a chimney fire, but I suspect it doesn't draw well either. Sounds like it's going against the principle of heat rising, thus creating a good draw. Maybe that's what he's trying to do with the power draft... ?? But, it raises the question of why, if nature will do it for you, if you've got a decent setup. I run about 3-4' horizontial to get to the wall. So far, no problems. However my vertical was a tall as I could make it before going through the wall. Up... elbow... horizontal, elbow and up to the rain cap.

Again, thanks.
Lee

Teg
11-03-2009, 07:32 PM
Lee,
Hope these pics don't bog you down but I caught them out of the video so you can see first hand, it's a gotta see it to believe it kinda thing.

http://www.backwoodshome.com/forum/vb/picture.php?albumid=15&pictureid=60

http://www.backwoodshome.com/forum/vb/picture.php?albumid=15&pictureid=61

http://www.backwoodshome.com/forum/vb/picture.php?albumid=15&pictureid=62

NCLee
11-03-2009, 08:13 PM
Thank you for taking the time and making the effort to post those pix. The pix were fine for viewing over dial-up. It's video that kills me.... 15 minutes per minute of video - approx. (sigh)

Any, I'm seeing and still ain't believing!

Is that an air intake in the floor?

No hearth or other floor protection that I could see. I grew up with "tin" heaters. The sides would burn out and hot coals could drop on the floor. Those barrels can't be much better than those old heaters I remember.

Somethings wrong with the flue. Mine's been up for about 10 years. The color of it looks almost as good as the day I installed it. That one looks as if it's rusting through. Maybe the pix, but it looks like a ROARING fire has heated it much too hot.

No telling how much cresoate has built up in that long horizontial run. (sigh)

I wish those folks luck that they don't ever wake up with the house on fire.

Again, thanks for posting.
Lee

Anon001
11-03-2009, 08:21 PM
Lee,

About the floor protection. If you look at the video, it looks to me like they built a "Morton" type building and then made living quarters in part of it. So, it looks to me like their was a concrete floor.

I have seen some really good barrel stoves, but never one like this one.

In case you can't see, he explains that he made two drying racks. One is just above the horizontal barrel for drying wet gloves and such. The other is higher and toward the back for less heat. It looks like he used refrigerator shelves.

He is ingenius, but maybe not smart. lol

Paul

Teg
11-03-2009, 08:35 PM
Is that an air intake in the floor?

Yup that's an air intake, he stated that he ran a pipe prior to the pouring of the concrete, as Paul stated the guy is definitely ingenious but ....... :)

Joe
11-06-2009, 02:09 AM
Another home made force air woodstove, this one is really well built, brick liner, rope gasket..etc..Very nice and easy to put together

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHty-Fo8opc

Teg
11-06-2009, 02:19 AM
Another home made force air woodstove, this one is really well built, brick liner, rope gasket..etc..Very nice and easy to put together

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHty-Fo8opc

Now that isn't bad at all, looks like a nice setup to me, but again I'm not an expert. :)

Anon001
11-06-2009, 12:58 PM
Thanks for that link. I downloaded the video for future reference. I will be needing to replace my old Ashley and I wanted plans for a good wood stove.

Paul

johnjmw
11-06-2009, 01:23 PM
If you have room to build one here is the style I like. It will last and not use much wood because of how completely the wood is burned. It's a Rocket stove mass heater. All you need is a couple of barrels, some old stove pipe, clay, sand, and old (or new) bricks. This thing get hot like you would not believe!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9uh2VExcdbY&feature=related

There is a number of sites that show how to build it but I bought the book which does an excelent job explaining why it works so well.
John

oneeyesquare
12-17-2009, 02:06 AM
I just picked up that exact Vogelzang stove. Yes, it's junk... Bottom cracked immediately. Door has waaaaay to much air leakage to get an overnight burn. It's also cheap and keeps the pole barn wherein we have the fifth wheel parked above freezing. Did I want a higher end better quality stove? You bet! I had $300 to play with and all the stainless pipe taken out of MIL's house 10 yrs ago. Buddy picked up the roof collar and a mounting bracket and Voila! ~Heat!~

Will watch Craigslist this summer for a better unit. Or maybe build a quadruple barrel, 100' chimney stack, turbine-induced unit with propane injected starting assist myself!!!! :man_in_love:

Mr.B
12-17-2009, 10:03 PM
Id just put an add in the paper for a wanted woodstove, or where I live you can find them everywhere at yard sales, in barns, at the scrap yard/dump, they are "junk" to most people.

-B