Septic system question

[roadking]

Greetings all. Our home has a shared septic (it is all deeded etc., yet can't realize how the township allows it), and the tank and field are on another property. They pump it in June, and by February, the field is flooding. They are not the most organized, and the field will remain overflowing until summer again. Obviously, the system is undersized (not to mention many, many years old) and will need to be replaced / upgraded in the future; but until then, would a product such as Rid-x or other "extender" (open for ALL suggestions, commercial, homebrewed, etc.) be of any practical use, or just a waste of money?
Thanks in advance,
Matt

[backlash]

If it's being pumped that often and still has problems I don't think Rid-x will help.
Is the flooding from the tank or drain field?
I suspect a drain field problem.
I have never heard of a shared septic system.
That must be a whole different set of problems if you and the neighbors don't get along.
Ours is an old system and the drain field has failed twice.
Once due to old age and the other time due to installation issues.
Dad had the half round plastic pipe put in and it collapsed.
We had to do it again in 5 or 6 years.
I hate septic problems.
backlash

[DiggerDirect]

Sounds like a drain field issue to me as well, most people dont realize that a septic tank, even an 1100 gallon one as we have here fills up in a matter of weeks, a couple months at best, when the solids break down from bacteria they rise to the top. Its when these solids get below the outgoing baffle that the tank plugs up, or sends the solids out into the drain field and then plugs up. Normal use of even a 500 gallon tank should not need pumping only every couple of years. What many of these septic additives do (not all, but most) is get the whole tank contents churning, breaking down the solids, allowing them to pass on out into the drainfield, which in the end is detrimental to the system as a whole.

If there is a distribution box after the septic tank that could be plugged, thus not allowing water to pass into the drainfield pipes.

One of the common problems, especially on older tanks that have cast iron elbows for baffles is they plug up, we used to knock a small hole in many to get a snake in there to clean them out.

Enemy number one is detergents, greywater (laundry, sinks, ect.) should have its own system but many do not.

the newer tanks only have small cleanouts in the tops so you cant really get access to the baffles, may have to uncover the entire top and remove to get access.

or the ground of the drainfield could just be saturated to the point where it will just not absorb any more water, or atleast as fast as you are making it (being two houses-one system) but I would inspect the tank first.

just my 2 cents :)

[roadking]

I, too, suspect that it is more the field than the tank.
Were the field on my side of the line, it would be dug and redone. Unfortunately, don't see that happening from them. We have even gone to the extent of water rationing (always cautious with over use to begin with) with dish and clothes washing, showers/baths, toilet use just to see how much impact we were having; the results are a bit skewed, however, with a five and 7 y/o in the mix. LOL!
Thanks for the input. Planning on diverting wash water to a gray water recycle / irragation system soon anyway; that should really lower our impact.
As for us getting along, the post was not intended to imply that, sorry. Pleasant folks, just either unmotivated or unconcerned towards several things.
Matt

[randallhilton]

First of all make sure excess water isn't going into the system: Anyone connected to the system should make sure their toilets don't have leaky flappers and make sure there are no drippy faucets. Shower heads should be switched to 2.5 gpm models, faucets should have 1.5 gpm aerators.

Also, if you can find a plumber or pumper in your area who sells Bio-Clean then get some from them and treat the field with it. If the beds are clogged with organic waste, the Bio-Clean should be able to digest it. It's some amazing stuff.

Here's a link to their distributor locator:
http://www.statewidesupply.com/dealer_locator/locator.php

[cinok]

Has any tried to aerate the feild area.I know in our area this has saved or at least bought some time.

http://www.rotorooter-nebama.com/field_line_aeration.htm

[Southerngirl]

We are having septic issues ourself. I believe the concrete septic has a crack in it, it's old. We are going to run new lateral lines out into our field with the gray water so the septic system does not have to "overwork" with the grey water. We have water standing with everything else in it in the backyard... and when we run the washing machine it floods into our back driveway.
So.... we think using a separate run off for our grey water will help. I hope we get this done before winter..

[Catalpa]

DO NOT EVER use rid-x or any of the other 'digestive' sorts of additives on the market. It will KILL your drainfield. A septic tank normally has three layers, the sludge on the bottom, the scum on the top, and clear liquid in the middle. The septic tank is supposed to have a baffle at the outlet so that only the clear liquid goes out to the drainfield. Rid-x and other additives will digest the solids and create a sort of gelatinous material that fills the clear liquid area and oozes out into the drainfield. It clogs up the drainfield just like thick jelly or grease, makes a mell of a hess, and ruins the drainfield.

Other methods, such as injecting foam peanuts, aerating the field, and so on are just expensive band aids that don't solve the original problem.

Getting rid of sewage has two components: treatment and disposal. It's not just all about disposal; treatment is vitally important. The only way to have a safe, effective, functional septic system is the have it properly constructed, up out of the water table by at least two feet, and sized to accomodate the output from the house. It's not fun, it's not cheap, and people often balk at spending money when "it's just sewage" but too many people are completely irresponsible about proper sewage management, and it hurts us all when the environment is damaged and ground water is contaminated. One would think the human race had learned that lesson after years of dying from typhoid, chloera, and the like after pooping in our own water supply, but it seems to be a lesson that doesn't stay with us.

As far as 'graywater', it's really just sewage without the solids. Water discharged from washing machines, kitchen sinks, and showers is laden with bacteria, virus, and other pathogens just like sewage and it needs to be properly treated. It can be recycled for use in irrigation, but don't use it for your garden. If you want to separate it from the septic system, a septic tank and drainfield is still needed to properly handle the waste. It can be a good way to keep the original drainfield functioning longer, but it can be expensive to do....better to just properly size and construct the septic system to begin with.

If the drainfield is having problems, first make shure that ONLY the household waste stream is going into it. You'd be surprised how many folks tie the sump pump and water softener drainlines, or even the downspouts into the septic system. Any of these will cause a system to fail fast. Then make sure that the downspouts or sump are not discharging onto the drainfield area.

You have to think of what your yard is like after a few days of steady rain. Then realize that in your drainfield, it's raining every single day. If it's too close to the water table, it's easy to see how the field will flood and no longer function adequately.

Matt, I hope you're able to work with your neighbors and eventually get the problem fixed. In the meantime, make sure that your kids aren't allowed to play in the flooded area, they could get really sick from it. Good luck!

[DiggerDirect]

I agree never use a 'cure' in a bottle down your septic, the results, if any, are only temporary and the longer term damage is irreversible. Growing up my granddad had a septic pumping business and I would go on jobs with him after school, on weekends and during summer vacations. Surprised the many people who wanted it cleaned our slick as a whistle but gramps would tell them if the tank is working properly (ie: the 3 layers Catalpa posted about) that its important to leave alittle in the bottom to start it working again. Really all that is needed is to remove the top layer of solids from the tank, (and many farmers hereabouts used to do just that themselves).
However I tend to disagree about the 'treatment' part as pertains to the home based septic systems, about the only treatment it gets is to remove solids from the discharge, altering the organic compounds only, all the bleaches, toilet bowl cleaners, soaps, detergents and household chemicals that go in for the most part go right out, thats why standing sewage, overflow, backed up on your lawn and you can see it stuff is so dangerous in more ways than just odor and needs to be addressed as quickly as possible. Normal drainfield leaching down into the ground and rising to evaporate removes or disperses many of the contaminates, atleast lowering the parts per million equation that eventually enters the groundwater but unlike sewage treatment plants where the raw sewage is chemically treated, filtered and altered before being discharged back into the waterways, the home based systems dont.

In our township as in most of new york state the minimum standard now is a 1000 gallon tank and 200 feet of leach field, percolation tests have become very stringent with only the highest, dryest areas allowed to use the minimum, most areas are requiring raised bed leach fields with pumps to actually pump the discharge up, then it leaches out of the bed and evaporation and absorbtion combine to get rid of it. Quite the system but extremely expensive costing upwards of 5k+ for the drainfield alone.

Knowing this we all need to keep in mind what we send down the shute!

[roadking]

Whole heartedly agree with the above, and appreciate the input.
Just had to put a new "sandmound" septic in a home I'm selling 2 hours away (come from a family of developers, and even with all the connections, $85,000).
This septic (current one from original post) dates way back, unable to locate, written or verbal, as to it's origin. Both houses are 1860 construction, township, county, etc. only just recently adopted the Universal building code (therefore, a lot has most likely slipped under the radar).
Luckily, the drain field is across the street, and about 400 feet from our front porch (plus, STEEP slope to it). The ground at the field is level, but I am certain that the water table is not 2 feet below grade; again, how and when (if) it was inspected and approved is beyond me. Previous owners down the line have done some incrediblely stupid and dangerous retros and add ons over the past, and this seems to be one.
As to gray water; my plan is first to divert and run through a heat exchanger to reclaim some heat value, then gravity feed to a holding tank for volume, and into a solar still. No public sewer, storm ewere or water up here, and unlike many around here, I won't allow it to dump into a stream (which is on our property) or free flow and land in someone elses water supply. Have been doing a lot of research on gray water and solar distilling at builditsolar, as well as many other references, plus my development and construction background.
Thanks again, all input appreciated.
Matt

[randallhilton]

I agree never use a 'cure' in a bottle down your septic, the results, if any, are only temporary and the longer term damage is irreversible.

Just to clarify re: the Bio-Clean: If the field is failed it's failed. So, the choice is: Spend 60 bucks or so vs. thousands. If the treatment doesn't work (most likely due to latent antibiotics in the field) then the total cost of fixing the field will be thousands plus a gambled can of Bio-Clean. If it does work, you get to find something else to spend the thousands on.

Although Bio-Clean (http://www.statewidesupply.com/howto.html#septics) is typically used inside the tank and piping system, restoring a failed leach field is done by mixing up several gallons of it and applying directly to the field itself. Unlike many "cure in a bottle" products (which I agree are bad news) Bio-Clean is a blend of bacteria (not emulsifiers which merely turn grease into goo). The bacteria digest the organic solids which are clogging the bio-mat.

Don't knock it till you've tried it. Visit with the Bio-Clean folks before dismissing it. I have no skin in this game but I do have over 20 years experience solving problems with the product. You'll have to find a distributor for it if you want it. It's not sold in stores.

[roadking]

Thank you all for the input. Always like to get input from others not dirrectly attached to the situation.
Matt