Kel Tec Sub 2000

[randallhilton]

A while back I asked if anyone knew much about the Kel Tec Sub 2000 folding carbine and had some response so here's my user review:

I like the compact size and that it shares magazines with my pistols (Glock .40sw)

It's an inexpensive way to out perform a pistol in the power and accuracy department. (I hope to take it hog hunting soon)

Adjusting the sight is arduous at best. Once I had it "dead on" but when I locked it down. . .it's off again. Smarter people could do it better but for me it took nearly 50 rounds to get it right. But I think it will stay put now that it's on.

It's an easy gun to shoot -- and as accurate as I am at 50 yd. I don't think it makes sense to ask for further distances since it's shooting handgun ammo anyway.

My scientific penetration test:
I compared the Sub 2000 to my sub compact Glock with the same ammo by pelting a phone book from about 20 yards. (Actually, it was 2 books together, just over 1,000 pages each)

The pistol penetrated the first book but didn't make it through the cover of the second. The carbine plowed through book one and about 700 pages into book two (over 1,700 pages total) so I would roughly estimate that the extra barrel length develops about 40% more penetration force. I would say that's pretty good.

Perhaps someone with a chronograph and cool gadgets like that will come up with more definitive data.

Overall, I'm satisfied with this carbine and may actually find it to be more useful than I originally expected. I think I'll make a scabbard for it to hang on my back pack or sling on my back just to have that extra penetration available without having to carry something that's much longer.

(I am also glad to have found a good use for all the phonebooks we keep getting!)

[ArmySGT.]

This is the accessory I bought to go with mine in 9MMP (Glock mags).
http://www.galatiinternational.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=GIO&Product_Code=GLMP9&Category_Code=Magazinepouches

[kawalekm]

Hi Randall
I finished a new handload for my .357 rifle a while ago and I can give you the numbers for it. Shooting a 158 grain roundnose with 11.0 grains of Blue Dot, I got 1392fps (688fpKE)in my 6" revolver, and 1689fps (1014fpKE) in my 20" .357 rifle. A difference of 297 fps (326fpKE).

I haven't tested my .40 pistol/rifle yet because I put a bullet through my chronograph. However, looking at the 48th addition of Lyman's reloading that has both .40S&W pistol and rifle data, it doesn't look like the acceleration in a rifle barrel is that much more. Maybe about 150-200fps. I think that's because short stubby pistol cartridges like 9mm, .40, and .45 don't have to extra powder capacity that the revolver cartridges do.

Once I get around to purchasing a new chronograph, I'll get back to you on the performance upgrades. In the mean time, I'd pack something a little bigger as a backup if I was going out hog hunting.
Michael

[randallhilton]

That's some really helpful info! In other words, you picked up about 1/3 more energy with the longer bbl. Am I getting that right? That helps explain the penetration differences between my little Glock 27 with the 3 1/2 or so bbl vs. the 16" Sub2000. Also, just curious. . . are chronographs in season right now? And do you have to have a tag or will a standard hunting license suffice? (I think I woulda cried!)

[mrhappy]

Michael,

That extra 297 fps from the longer barrel increases the muzzle energy by 43%. Use the formula E=(1/2*Mass*Velocity^2) where velocity is in fps and mass is bullet weight in grains divided by (7000*32.2). The 7000 converts grains to lbs of weight and the 32.2 changes the force to mass by removing the acceleration of gravity.

mrhappy

[kawalekm]

Hi Happy
Did you notice the numbers in parenthesis? The value (688fpKE) meant that that bullet had 688 foot pounds of kinetic energy. Out of the rifle, it was 1014 foot pounds.

That additional speed gave the rifle 47% additional power, about the same as a 44 magnum handgun!

However, the 40S&W data is not as impressive. Looking at Lyman's 48th ed. manual, 9.2 grains of Blue Dot (their maximum load) was going 1010 fps out of a pistol, and only gained 225 fps in their rifle (1235 fps with 510 foot pounds of kinetic energy). With my own handloads, I might be able to better than that in my own rifle, but it will have to wait till I get a new chronograph.

Randall, just looking at the numbers only, it would seem that even with just a .357 revolver you'd have more power against that pig then the 40S&W rifle. I'm not saying you CAN NOT kill a pig with your Kel-Tec just make sure you don't select a pig that will be more mad then hurt when you shoot it!

[mrhappy]

I wasn't sure what the letters in parentheses meant. Thanks.

As for me - the extra barrel length is a happy thing.