Philosophy/religion

[flatwater]

My question is when does philosophy turn into a religion , after all is is a system of beliefs

[Teg]

My question is when does philosophy turn into a religion , after all is is a system of beliefs

In general philosophy usually emphasizes reason and critical thinking, whereas religions rely more on faith. But as you say they can be similar on certain levels and I suppose a person can make a religion out of just about anything if they set their mind to it.

[333]

Peace,

Hmmm......Technically the word philosophy literally means "Love of Wisdom", and in practice is the study of knowledge (epistemology) in the pursuit of the truth and leading a good life.

The place where the paths of theology and philosophy intersect is in the quest for leading a good life or , What comprises a "good" life?

Theology abounds with mandates and edicts of how to live life properly as commanded by "All that Is", "God" or "The Gods".

Philosophy mandates "you" examine your own life based on logic, reason, and experience.

There are two types of "experience" simplified, 1 Aposteriore- That which you experience with your senses, taste, touch, smell, sight, sound. 2 Apriore- (with out experience) what one thinks/ wonders, about experiences or lack there of.

Applying logic, reason, and philosophical principles to the above parameters of experience, we arrive at truth. We then put these truths in to action and lead good lives.......theoretically. LOL


Theology is the study of, God/s /religion/ faith/ spirituality. Philosophy is the study of knowledge/ wisdom/ reason/ experience.

Does that help at all?

333

[flatwater]

The Christian Faith is also a study of knowledge, wisdom, reason, and experience. What I see that the difference is, the knowledge and wisdom in philosophy is man made . In the Christian faith it's God made. Man is fallible , the one true God is not. In philosophy you start out with one mans opinion which does not make it truth for all. The one true God's word is truth therefore is true for all. If your going to study Knowledge, wisdom reason and experience, wouldn't you want to go to the best source possible.

[Teg]

Religion can and does as you say include wisdom, reason and experience, they just aren't the biggest part of the package. A persons faith in their God/whatever is the predominant value in any religion and sometimes, for some people it is faith to the exclusion of reason. Whereas Philosophy could be said to value reason, knowledge, wisdom and experience to the exclusion of faith.

[333]

Peace,

All that follows is an example of critical thinking, or "doing" philosophy. In other words we put our faith aside, for the moment, as evidence, of our "truths" to examine a broader possible truth and understanding.

The Christian Faith is also a study of knowledge, wisdom, reason, and experience.

Agreed..for Christians.. but there are at least 11 other "faiths" on this planet, all of which would hold the same ardent stance that their "faith" is the true "faith" and should command them to lead the good life as well. So in philosophical terms to promote harmony and resolve conflict, we must accept that, and allow them their "free will", "as all paths eventually lead to the mountain top."

What I see that the difference is, the knowledge and wisdom in philosophy is man made . In the Christian faith it's God made. Man is fallible , the one true God is not.

Again we are "doing" philosophy, no insults are intended at all, but what you have just stated is contradictory, and philosophically that means, your "inference" must be supported by your "evidence", not contradicted.

"Man is fallible" (inference) ergo "his philosophy is fallible"(evidence).. Good and reasonable.

"The one true God is not fallible"(inference) all his creation including his "word" is infallible. (evidence) Logical and rational conclusions..

So far so good, we have non contradictory supposition with inference and evidence.
but here is where the trouble begins,.. "God" created man, (inference) "God" created man's free will, (inference) "God" is infallible, (inference), ergo.. man and his free will CAN NOT be fallible (evidence).

Following this logic and rationale to conclusion...if man were fallible..it would render "God" fallible for creating something fallible, and a infallible "God" can not create something fallible, it would be contradictory.

So how do we rectify the equation and keep "All That Is" infallible.

Mans "choices" maybe fallible, but man himself is still infallible.

God creates Man, God is infallible, Man is infallible.

God is all benevolent, God gives man free will, Man exercises and expresses free will.

Both statements are valid philosophically, they are logical, and non contradictory, or truthful.

If man does "evil" by his own definitions, it would be mans choice, and mans suffering unto his own creations. Man is still a perfect creation, but his choices are or maybe considered flawed.
God had nothing to do with it as he could not interfere with free will, but ....God is All benevolent, or merciful and forgiving. Ergo, even mans flawed choices are forgivable, as he was created perfect with free will.
In the end we manage to keep God infallible, and man infallible, and even his choices infallible due to the forgiving nature of God.

But wait....... that means there really is no such thing as evil and man would go crazy doing all sorts of evil to each other, since there are no repercussions for his actions.

Some men have been choosing "Evil" regardless of the threat of "HELL" and even Gods wrath any way for the entire history of humanity. "Evil" is "evil" for the sake of the pain it causes the human experience, it comes with free will.

One can not know or define Unconditional Love, with out the antonym of Hate/ Rage.

The "repercussions" of free will are the "world/ environment" and or "experience/ life" we choose to create around us, it is a reflection of mans free will over all.

What does that say when we look at the world in general?

In philosophy you start out with one mans opinion which does not make it truth for all. The one true God's word is truth therefore is true for all. If your going to study Knowledge, wisdom reason and experience, wouldn't you want to go to the best source possible.

In my humble opinion, man is being mislead by those he has entrusted to educate/ lead him to higher truth and enlightenment. Rather he should be responsible for his own truths and environment, and not displacing these ultimate responsibilities to any edifice, office, conglomerate or corporation.

Since "All that Is" , Is perfect and infallible, and man is perfect and infallible, (even if he chooses poorly with his perfect free will) life could be closer to perfect, or "heaven" on earth, if we, as a species, went to the best source to facilitate this environment,

Us..... We are the best source to take action in thought and deed to create our world around us...it would be prudent and ultimately responsible, sovereign. This would be the greatest expression of free will. Besides.. "God helps those who help themselves" why wait for God or some one else to do it for us when we have all that we need to accomplish on our own?

Well I know it was a bit long but thanks for exercising philosophy with me.... I hope we have created a greater understanding even if it is only a little new spark of truth.

333

[Grizzy]

A great Tapestry hangs upon the wall. Stories of the Old Ones, from all days, are stitched into the fabric with the colors each man chooses. Stories of lives lived well, sewn with lovely silken threads, drab and garbled hues of waste, strong fibers of character, rough textured places of despair hang woven together with absolute finesse. One story to the next, an embroidery of Mandate and Edict anchoring and holding steadfastly the tales of old. Transitional threads sparkling with Love of Wisdom brighten the whole of the cloth lending diverse colors of Knowledge and Truth. Meticulously incorporated fibers of Logic and Reason, Faith and Promise offer depth to this story, an unspoken interpretation of Light and Perniciousness...

A great Tapestry hangs upon the wall. The number of stitches within this Tapestry is finite. Those who view it with listening hearts will hear scattered messages... defined interpretations. Where in this Tapestry of Life lies a Lie? or Truth? Right? or Wrong? Each man can find himself and his colors therein. It is for each man to hold these things dearly, closely, an instrument to navigate by... in an unpredictable world.

I look upon this great work.. and see Light.


Be Strong
~Grizzy~

[farmmilkmama]

Nicely said, Griz.