What are your opinions on a Romanian AK-47?

[da_wanderer]

Greetings,

I have recently become intrigued by the idea of owning one of these guns. There is a local gun store near here with several of these rifles. The price is around $600; the kit includes 2 metal 30 round clips, bayonet and lugs.

I have been researching these guns, and while not terribly accurate, they sound like a lot of fun to shoot, and they will keep working long after everything else has croaked.

Would one of these guns be good for an Appleseed event?

[rice paddy daddy]

I have a Romanian WASR 10 which is a low end AK that's frowned upon by the gun snobs. It works just fine. I paid $420 for it when the democratic nomination got down to Hillary and Obama last year. In the month after the election they went up to $700, I guess they're coming back down now.
www.ak-47.net

[Pathfinder]

Like RPD has mentioned the WASR's are a good lot. See if you can locate a SAR version, they are earlier versions of the Romanian clan.

Look for the dimpled reciever.

[Mr.B]

I have one I picked up about 5 years ago, I dont think I have shot it in a few years? Its fun to "plink" with. I think I paid $320. So....I reckon its just a SHTF firearm or if zombies attack firearm.


-B

[da_wanderer]

I am looking at it as a SHTF weapon. Somehow, I don't think we will have reliable access to cleaning supplies if the dollar crashes and burns.

I could also get 2 or 3 of these guns for the cost of an AR platform, or I could get one gun and plenty of ammo.

Going to hit a gun show next weekend and see what they have available.

[kawalekm]

I am looking at it as a SHTF weapon. Somehow, I don't think we will have reliable access to cleaning supplies if the dollar crashes and burns.

Make your own "Ed's Red Bore Cleaner".
http://home.comcast.net/~dsmjd/tux/dsmjd/tech/eds_red.htm
All you need is kerosene, mineral spirits, acetone, and automatic transmission fluid.

I've been using for about 15 years now with excellent results.

[macgeoghagen]

don't pay any more than 450.00 for the weapon and two magazines.

[Stinger]

don't pay any more than 450.00 for the weapon and two magazines.

:eek: Ain't that the truth. Shocking, isn't it!

The Romanian WASR's, put together and distributed by Century Arms, are good, 'beater' carbines. My principal concern is how easy it's going to be to come up with 7.62 x 39mm ammo if TSHTF. Personally, I'd want a set of reloading dies + to go along with this gun.

Because this is America I use only 5.56 x 45mm firearms. (One is an AK-74 variant.) If I have to get into 7.62 x 39mm it'll probably be the result of a subsequent resupply. Still a WASR is better than nothing.

Me? If I had only one long arm it would be a 12 or 20 gauge shotgun. (If you're going to be using slugs, then, stay away from pump models.) ;)

[Mr.B]

:eek:

The Romanian WASR's, put together and distributed by Century Arms, are good, 'beater' carbines. My principal concern is how easy it's going to be to come up with 7.62 x 39mm ammo if TSHTF.

This is one reason Ive thought about just trading the thing it for something that takes a more "common" round.

-B

[MrGreenJeans]

There is so much 7.62x39 in this country, i,d think it could be around when needed. It's mabey the most popular shtf round for the common man.

[Stinger]

There is so much 7.62x39 in this country, i,d think it could be around when needed. It's mabey the most popular shtf round for the common man.

:) Well, I'm not convinced of that. It wasn't too long ago that a huge shipment of Wolf ammo was refused entry into this country. If it happened once, it could happen again.

Besides, the thought of having to defend my life with any of the popular commercial brands of Russian ammo makes my blood run cold. All of it is weak, comparatively inaccurate, excessively oil or water permeable, and non-reloadable. (At least sensibly so!)

Think I'd rather use a 22, snares, and a slingshot. ;)

[rice paddy daddy]

My principal concern is how easy it's going to be to come up with 7.62 x 39mm ammo if TSHTF. Personally, I'd want a set of reloading dies + to go along with this gun.

There ARE those of us who measure their ammo inventory by the thousands.:rolleyes:
Just sayin'.:D

[Stinger]

:eek: U-2!







Or even the tens of thousands! Some people have told me they believe ammunition will be the, 'new money' inside a collapsed national ecomomy. (I might have read that here - Don't really remember?) ;)

[rice paddy daddy]

I've still got some 1967 chinese milsurp 7.62X39 that cost me $79 a case. Those days are gone.:(
If you know how much ammo you have without doing a physical inventory, then you don't have enough.:D

[Teg]

Fiocchi makes a decent 7.62x39 round, a little more expensive than Wolf but it's also better made and not as expensive as the Federal, Winchester and Remington stuff.

[macgeoghagen]

my romanian beater cant take advantage of any of the more accurate ammunition. its a 50 yard hamburger maker. definitely not assembled with pride.

[Teg]

my romanian beater cant take advantage of any of the more accurate ammunition. its a 50 yard hamburger maker. definitely not assembled with pride.

Not sure if the ammo itself is more accurate but it is less nasty than the wolf ammo. ;):)

[AARTY]

I have one of the earlier variants and other than a bent front sight post mine is pretty accurate for what it is. It did have some trigger slap but that can be adjusted. To be nitpicky, you won't be able pick up an AK-47 w/o a classIII license as AK-47's are select fire weapons. What we are seeing here in the states,barring a few exceptions, are AKM semi-only variants true '47's have milled receivers not stamped. I know it is semantics, but ignorance is how the anti-gun crowd get the backing that they do, well one of the ways. I say get one, or more if ya can.

[gunsmoke]

Fiocchi makes a decent 7.62x39 round, a little more expensive than Wolf but it's also better made and not as expensive as the Federal, Winchester and Remington stuff.

Just my $0.02 worth, I am one of those who measure inventory in tens of thousands of rounds. In 7.62 c 39 that includes PMC, Greek, Lapua, Frdrtal American Eagle and Fiocchi. NONE of it is other than boxer and brass. I find the Foocchi OUTSTANDING it is CLEAN it is ACCURATE, it is surefire it is PLENTIFUL and it is relatively inexpensive.

When I handload the brass I use 150 gr Hornadyloaded relatively hot, All my AKs are milled receivers, all have had recoil guide rods replaced with Bulgarian Very Heavy Duty RPK guide rods and the springs replace with 40% extra power recoil springs and blackjack buffers, they are quieter, even more reliable and resistant tofeeding problems.

[MooseToo]

Just my $0.02 worth, I am one of those who measure inventory in tens of thousands of rounds.

do we know precisely who is reading all our posts ?

not just talking about big brother - but someday, if ammo becomes as valuable as currency like some suspect, a "target list" for thieves will be in demand -

"an ounce of prevention" and all that stuff -

[gunsmoke]

I have no specific experience with Romanian AKs myself I stick with ChiCom, Finland and Israeli, but I strongly recommend that anyone with an AK replace the recoil spring guide with a Bulgarian made unit like this:

http://www.k-var.com/shop/product.php?productid=16462&cat=310&page=1

The Bulgarians always kept the original Russian design for the RPK it is much heavier duty two solid telescoping tubes to guide the spring, which you should replace with a new Chrome Silicon Spring like this:

http://www.falconarms.com/xcart/product.php?productid=110

Finally I'd add a blackjack buffer like this:

http://www.blackjackbuffers.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=180

You'll have a quieter, more reliable rifle that will last longer than it would without these three modifications.

Good luck!

[Teg]

I have no specific experience with Romanian AKs myself I stick with ChiCom, Finland and Israeli, but I strongly recommend that anyone with an AK replace the recoil spring guide with a Bulgarian made unit like this:

http://www.k-var.com/shop/product.php?productid=16462&cat=310&page=1

The Bulgarians always kept the original Russian design for the RPK it is much heavier duty two solid telescoping tubes to guide the spring, which you should replace with a new Chrome Silicon Spring like this:

http://www.falconarms.com/xcart/product.php?productid=110

Finally I'd add a blackjack buffer like this:

http://www.blackjackbuffers.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=180

You'll have a quieter, more reliable rifle that will last longer than it would without these three modifications.

Good luck!

Good tips there, folks would be surprised at the difference you can make in a weapon with just a few drop in parts, Brownells has a good selection of parts (from a variety of manufacturers) for just about any rifle or handgun. That being said, you can't fix all problems with drop in parts but you can make a decent weapon a good bit better. :)

[gunsmoke]

Good tips there, folks would be surprised at the difference you can make in a weapon with just a few drop in parts, Brownells has a good selection of parts (from a variety of manufacturers) for just about any rifle or handgun. That being said, you can't fix all problems with drop in parts but you can make a decent weapon a good bit better. :)

Thanks for the 2nd Teg! Just as a matter of personal preference I have two other suggestions: Replace the "Sheppards Crook" retention spring with a plate:

http://www.blackjackbuffers.com/index.php?main_page=crook

And my favorite pistol grip is the GALIL I like it so much I have had a local cabinet maker make wooden replacements for all my FN FALs modeled on the GALIL. I find that the Galil grip "fits" a much broader variety of people, it is longer and narrower than most other grips, someone is making one for the ARs but I don't know who. The later H & K grip on the plastic lowers as used by the US Navy SEALS on their MP5s is modeled after the Galil.



http://riflestocks.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=93_98&products_id=323&osCsid=17af16d6ee9d61df24bcaf3d5bac161d

[Pitdog]

I definitely agree with the plate VS the spring. Very FN like then, and much easier to disassemble when it becomes necessary which is rarely with the AK.

[da_wanderer]

Okay, I hit the gun show this weekend.

I picked up an Americanized AKM with a collapsible stock and all poly parts. The maker is I/O inc. I payed 550 for the gun, 2 clips, sling, and cleaning kit.

I had not heard of I/O inc before this weekend. The gun looks good and shoots a decent group so far.

What are your opinions on Saiga guns? There were several for sale at 400, including the shotgun version.

Thanks,

Wanderer

[gunsmoke]

I've never seen an IO in person but have casually talked with folks who have and they tell me by all appearences its a decent gun.

Do you mhave anything to mic the receiver to see what thickness the sheet metal the receiver is made of? 1.0mm is normal 1.6mm is premium quality.

Let us know how it shoots and how you like it.

Good luck.

[TackKS]

Greetings,

I have recently become intrigued by the idea of owning one of these guns. There is a local gun store near here with several of these rifles. The price is around $600; the kit includes 2 metal 30 round clips, bayonet and lugs.

I have been researching these guns, and while not terribly accurate, they sound like a lot of fun to shoot, and they will keep working long after everything else has croaked.

Would one of these guns be good for an Appleseed event?

$600 seems a little high.

[da_wanderer]

Okay, I have been looking up information on I/O inc. The company apparently gets their parts from an importer/builder in Houston, Texas and then customizes their rifles.

The rifle I own has the Bulgarian spring mentioned above, a 1 mm receiver, a barrel by Mossberg, the trigger plate, a Galil type pistol grip, and all polymer furniture by Tapco.

Overall the rifle shoots a very tight group. I still need to adjust the sights, but I can make do.

I put a whole clip through it as fast as I could pull the trigger, and traced a line across the bullseye. The muzzle climb is obvious even as a semi-automatic.

[TackKS]

Rifle Dynamics in Las Vegas does good work. They will take a kit and build you up a good system for a fair price (which is higher than the as-is stuff on the market). You get what you pay for. I like their work.

[gunsmoke]

I have one of the earlier variants and other than a bent front sight post mine is pretty accurate for what it is. It did have some trigger slap but that can be adjusted. To be nitpicky, you won't be able pick up an AK-47 w/o a classIII license as AK-47's are select fire weapons. What we are seeing here in the states,barring a few exceptions, are AKM semi-only variants true '47's have milled receivers not stamped. I know it is semantics, but ignorance is how the anti-gun crowd get the backing that they do, well one of the ways. I say get one, or more if ya can.

Mucho BAD INFO!

First of all the distinction betwee AK and AKM has nothing to do with FC capabilities. There are many milled receiver AKs that are semi auto ONLY and there are many AKM s that were converted to selective fire and now are in the registry and fully trabsferable, and there are AKMs STILL being Form 1'd on to the registry for restricted transfer.

The only distinction between an AK and an AKM is that all AKs are built on milled receivers and all AKMs are built on Stamped receivers. There are man ymany variations in each category. The principal variation among AKMs is in the guage of the metal the receiver is stamped from. Most commonly the thickness of the sheet metal stock the receivers are made from range from 1.0 mm to 1.6 mm.

Heat treating is alsi much more critical in the AKM. Stamped receivers ARE going to flex its just a question of thickness, quality of the sheet metal stock and the proper or less than proper heat treaing.

A milled receiver will be easier to squeeze the best accuracy potential out of.

There is a wide wide variation in the quality of ammo. Cheap steel cased bi-metal jacketed bullets you'll consider yourself fortunate to get 4 moa with the best of the AKs. Polytech Legends, Valmet and Galil AKs can regularly get you 1 moa with LAPUA

There are many websites where you can buy the cheapest East European 7.62 x 39 mm by the case, pallet, or Ocean Freight Container lot, the landed supply of 7.62 x 39 dwarfs the supply of 5.45 x 39 an order of magnitude of between 5and 6.

[Displaced Bumkin]

Would one of these guns be good for an Appleseed event?

At AS we tell folks to bring what they own and shoot what they have. If you dont mind shooting nearly 200 rounds of 7.62x39 on Sat and then another 300+ rounds on Sunday, then you are welcome to do so.

When AS first started out there were very few .22 rifles on the line. Now with the increased costs of ammo, you tend to see more .22 rifle as opposed to centerfire. That being said, we do see folks using a .22 rifle to get aquainted with the rifle instruction, and when they are comfortable with what they have learned, do sometimes move to using the centerfire rifles usually on Sunday. YMMV