Sowing Seeds on New Years Day!

[Laura]

Here's what I am doing......feel free to let me know if I am doing this wrong.

My daughter and I are setting up a growing area in the basement.
The basement stays at about 65-68 degrees. It is at 35% humidity.

I have a table (big one) that I am going to put an electric blanket on. Keep the seed starts 'warm'. I am going to hang plastic all around the table (ceiling to floor) to keep the moisture in. I am hanging growing lights so that they are right above the seed starts. I will start the seeds in a starter soil that I mix with warm water.

Now......
I live in Central Indiana, where planting the garden day is Mother's Day. That is when we are out of the 'frost danger'.
If I want to plant tomatoes, should I start them in larger pots?
Onions, from seed, to make 'sets'. Can I just fill a aluminum pan w/ dirt and put the seeds in that way?
I have heard that the lights have to be on 16 hours a day because artificial light is 2 to 1. 2 hours of art. light to equal 1 hour of real light?

I sure would love to hear your opinions!!

[nhlivefreeordie]

Laura,

I start most of my plants in the basement as well, with the heating mats under the flats. I don't do anything special to deal with humidity, but do have full spectrum 6500 kelvin bulbs in the fixtures. The light is always kept within a couple inches of the plants by either lowering or raising the platform, or having the fixtures suspended from chains to make adjustment easy.
I did not give them any extra light either, just turned the lights on in the morning and off at night, following the outside light.
I do think New Years day is WAY TOO early to start them, I started in early March last year, and that was too early, I was going to move it up a month and start at the beginning of April this year, we are zone 6.
I start all of mine in flats and then transfer the plants I intend to keep into larger pots as needed. The extra plants usually find homes with friends.

[NCLee]

Laura, sounds like your setup will work fine.

Just one caution..... I believe that you are starting seeds to be transplanted way too early. Depends on the individual seeds, but, if memory serves, starting most is done about 6 weeks before tansferring to the garden. I used to start seeds in a greenhouse in early spring.

If started too early, the plants will become root bound. At some point, you'll need to transfer the plants from those pans to individual pots for the best results. BTW, you can make pots from newspaper - google for more info.

Plus, your plants will probably get too tall, if you start them too early. A short stocky plant is best for transplanting. A tall, leggy plant, is more subject to wind damage, etc. until it becomes acustomed to outside conditions.

If you're planting seeds that won't be transplanted outdoors, starting them at any time is OK. For example, if you're planting salad greens that you'll harvest directly from the pans as soon as they are large enough to pick.

Good luck with your system. Sure wish I had a good place to start seeds early. All my windows are filled with houseplants. Don't have room to set up a good grow light system.

Lee

[AlchemyAcres]

I have a table (big one) that I am going to put an electric blanket on. Keep the seed starts 'warm'. I am going to hang plastic all around the table (ceiling to floor) to keep the moisture in. I am hanging growing lights so that they are right above the seed starts. I will start the seeds in a starter soil that I mix with warm water.

IMHO....You only need the heat source, the electric blanket, for germination. I wouldn't use it beyond that because the added heat will lead to 'leggy' plants, bedding plants should be kept on the cool side...especially cool loving plants!

Rather than hanging the plastic to form a tent, it's much better to keep plastic closer to the surface of the soil to retain moisture AND to limit evaporation from the soil surface which can cool down the surface of the soil and cause slow or poor germination even with a bottom heat source.


Onions, from seed, to make 'sets'. Can I just fill a aluminum pan w/ dirt and put the seeds in that way?
I have heard that the lights have to be on 16 hours a day.......


Yes onions can be started in a 'flat' like that and the plants separated and planted out.

Onions are one of those things that's best started quite early because they're slow growers, at least 10-12 weeks before planting out, IMHO.

If you're above the 36th parallel, long day onions will do best for you!
I plant only long day onions here.

You must be very careful with light and young onion plants, it's important that they have a sufficient night period....I'd only keep light on them 12 hours...16 hours would lead them to start to form bulbs too soon.
In fact, 12 hours is enough for all your plants, what's most important is keeping the light close to the plants so the plants develop strong stems rather than "leginess".

Here's a link to a very useful seed starting chart...

http://www.yougrowgirl.com/grow/seedstartingchart_lazy.php

What other plants are you planning to start?


~Martin

[Laura]

I really need for my tomato plants to have some size to them when I drop them into the dirt......

When I start them in March, by Mother's Day they are only a couple of inches tall, and are tiny tiny. The wind (even after hardening off) usually kills them because they don't have enough heft to withstand! I even build up around each tomato plant a large pile of cut grass. First to block the wind and second to keep them warm.
I thought if I started my tomato seeds sooner, my plants would be taller. Like the plants you see at the hardware stores, or lawn and garden centers in spring......

I am not 100% sure of what I am starting right now.....my daughter and I need to map out our gardens for next year and see!!

Thanks for all your help!!

[Pokeberry Mary]

I got some cash for my Dec. b-day and Christmas and I just bought myself a nice shelf unit with wheels and some full spectrum florescent lighting, adjustable chain. I'm starting mine in the dining room where I have big southern exposure windows that throw a great deal of light. It is also near my desk/work table area so I will get some of that light too. I found out I have a vit. D deficiency lately-I'm thinking maybe that full spectrum light throws a little extra my way too.

Our basement is pretty cold right now and I like things where I can get at them more easily--so I don't forget them and ignore their needs.

Anyhow--I do have one tip-- every place I've moved I've looked for a specific to the area garden book. There are a few different ones for where I live now. The one I purchased is Month-By-Month Gardening in the Carolinas by Bob Polomski. I know there are similar books for other areas. The thing I like is it gives me some help figuring out my climate and what to do when. In our area there's more than one growing season. You need to know what to plant when. Cool season crops are grown either in fall or winter or in early spring. Right now I'm starting my January seeds-- the book told me about some basics but I am also starting some that aren't mentioned that are a little more unusual for the average home gardener. I'm getting my info about those by just searching around online or asking at Gardenweb.com
They have forums that are specific for all kinds of gardeners. One that is good for seed starters is the WinterSowing forum. Lots of ways to start seeds free outside on that forum.

Anyhow--I could hardly wait for Christmas to be done so I could get going on the garden again. It may be cold out but I'm still harvesting brocoli and herbs and I'm planning to be getting things year round in the future, more and more each year as I get my garden in better shape. So fun!!

Agreed about watching what you plant--if it is too early you will have to re-pot a time or two--though at some point you may find a way to put them out early with wall o water's or a cold frame or something.

Have fun!!

[NCLee]

Laura,

Tip on tomatoes....

They are different from a lot of plants. When you plant them, dig a deep hole and plant them up to the bud and top group of leaves. Remove any leaves that are along the stem that wlll be burried. They will grow roots along the buried part of the stem.

If very tall, you can dig a trench and lay the plant in the trench, then gently bend the top upwards. Pack the soil around it and fill in the trench. I've done that when I've had leggy ones to plant. Make sure your turn all the trenches in the same direction, so you don't dig them up when weeding with a hoe.

Most plants are usually planted about the same depth that the were in the pots. Tomatoes are an exception!!!

Lee

[Pokeberry Mary]

It may be a little late to start onion seed to grow sets for spring.
Maybe not up in the north--but down here we'll be putting ours in the ground in not too long.

Of course green onions are good-- you can do those. ;)

[Laura]

Without chemicals, how do I get my tomato seeds, to grow into 6-8 inch, healthy plants, when seeding in March and planting in May?

I went to Whole Foods last spring and they had HUGE tomato plants, med tomato plants and the 5-8 inch size plants. Because mine only grew to 2 inches tall and the size of a pencil led, I did buy a few of their plants.

I just want to put good plants in the dirt this year!!
Thanks for your advice!!

[AlchemyAcres]

Without chemicals, how do I get my tomato seeds, to grow into 6-8 inch, healthy plants, when seeding in March and planting in May?

I went to Whole Foods last spring and they had HUGE tomato plants, med tomato plants and the 5-8 inch size plants. Because mine only grew to 2 inches tall and the size of a pencil led, I did buy a few of their plants.

I just want to put good plants in the dirt this year!!
Thanks for your advice!!

LOTS of light and potting up at the proper time.

Standard shop lights will work, but lamps like the GE Plant and Aquarium Wide Spectrum are better.

The light must be kept very close to the plants, near touching.

Seedlings should be potted up when they form true leaves.

It's helpful to brush across the tops of the plants a few times a day or run a fan on then 10-15 minutes morning and evening after they've formed true leaves, this strengthens stems.

If not started in a soiless, low nutrient mix, they can be fertilized with a very weak solution when true leaves form.

How did you grow the last year?


~Martin

[Builder Ken]

Martin here in Oklahoma can I do this in cold frames ??? I do not have a place indoors to start any seeds. Thanks for your knowledge Ken

[AlchemyAcres]

Martin here in Oklahoma can I do this in cold frames ??? I do not have a place indoors to start any seeds. Thanks for your knowledge Ken

Yes.
I start my plants inside and then move them to the cold frames.
Some start their tomato seeds right in the cold frame.


~Martin

[Laura]

How did you grow the last year?

The last two years have been horrible. With all the global warming :sarcastic: temps here were cold, rainy and windy until JUNE!
My plants, I started from seed.....were whimpy and could not handle the weather.

I am going raised beds this year. Tired of screwing around with poor soil (mostly, ok, totally clay) and lousy temps.
With raised beds, I can better control the soil and I can warm up the dirt before I plant.

I want to plant at least 60 tomato plants. All for canning. All Roma Pastes. They can up and a taste AMAZING! This year I would like to save seeds....

I will plant a couple of beefstakes on the other side of the property for slicers.

I just want to put good strong plants in the dirt.....

[NCLee]

Without chemicals, how do I get my tomato seeds, to grow into 6-8 inch, healthy plants, when seeding in March and planting in May?

I went to Whole Foods last spring and they had HUGE tomato plants, med tomato plants and the 5-8 inch size plants. Because mine only grew to 2 inches tall and the size of a pencil led, I did buy a few of their plants.

I just want to put good plants in the dirt this year!!
Thanks for your advice!!

Laura, it's going to be hard to duplicate those plants you found at Whole Foods. The are grown in commercial greenhouses with maximum sunlight, temperature and water automatically controlled. Temperatures are probably hotter than what you have in your home. I'm guessing they are grown at around 80-85 degrees. Humidity will be much higher, as they use misters to keep the humidity up. Think tropical rain forest.

I'm not saying that you can't grow good tomato plants at home. Just don't want you to be disappointed in that they probably won't look as good as what you see at places like Whole Foods.

If the weather cooperates this year, you'll have a good crop of tomatoes even if your plants look less than ideal. One of the reasons why you don't want to rush your planting is that if you have another unusually cool & wet spring, you may be forced to plant them too early. For most summer vegetable garden plants, the soil temperature should be above 50 degrees. It's better to have your tranplants ready too weeks late than to have them ready two weeks too early.

Lee

Edit: You don't need "chemicals" to grow your tomato transplants. Google: gardening "organic fertilizer" (all 3 words as typed). And google "compost tea"

[Pokeberry Mary]

If you are starting the tomatoes early they will get plenty big--you're gonna need to move them to bigger containers though. They will need light as has been said.
Chemicals??
I never use chemicals on baby plants.

If anything use a half strength fertilizer or a manure tea.
Personally I love fish emulsion and I'm going to use that on mine--just half strength though before they are out in the ground.

If you have a short season you might want to begin to slowly build up a collection of 'wall o' waters'. Jackie Clay uses them up in minnesota and I think she must have over 50 of them. We don't need 'em where I am. They enable you to put your tomatoes out earlier and grow them longer.

I bought a few plants last year because we were so busy with getting the house ready to move into. The bedding plants were over $3 a peice!!!! HOLY MOLY :eek:

Needless to say I am starting a crazy amount of veggies in the house this year, and as it warms up in the cold frame too. Gosh for that much money I can have a dozen plants of my own!

Gardening from scratch has never been more frugal than it is now.

[nhlivefreeordie]

One of the reasons why you don't want to rush your planting is that if you have another unusually cool & wet spring, you may be forced to plant them too early. For most summer vegetable garden plants, the soil temperature should be above 50 degrees. It's better to have your tranplants ready too weeks late than to have them ready two weeks too early.

Lee


This is exactly why I said that New Years was too early, for that area. Last year I had to keep delaying putting the plants out because of temperatures, and I started in March. This led to lots of otherwise un-necessary re-potting, and crowding, heck my pumpkins, zucchini, and other vining plants were already producing blossoms by the time it was safe for them, and even then, there were some touch and go nights.
I would love to get going too, but you have to resist that temptation, I got more heat mats for Christmas yesterday, so I can start a lot more plants, but I am going to wait until at least April 1st, that way even if it is a normal year, they will be ready to go out by then.

[Deberosa]

I wouldn't start tomatoes until Mid March, I started them earlier once and ended up transplanting them several times - they went nuts!

I start them inside - in flats that have plastic covers. The lights are just above the covers. I had a green house but once they outgrow the flats, I transplant them into 4 inch pots and depending on space keep them under lights or out to the greenhouse they go. This year I will turn a swing set into that kind of growing area. Having lots of sunlight helps. I also only kept lights on for 12 hours a day. When I transplant the seedlings they go as deep into the pot as possible for tomatoes and then they would take off. Transplanting this way three times ending up in gallon pots gave me really strong plants , even in dark dreary Washington State.

We are getting a wood stove for in the sun room. It has windows facing east and south. I want to build a lean too against the east windows so I can actually open the window and heat the lean too. I also have a rolling cart and two 4 foot shop lights that I can raise and lower with chains. I use the full spectrum bulbs in them and that works fine. Two lights and cycling through plants under those lights worked for me in the past. Germinating under the lights and them moving the plants out to a protected area. By April most of the really bad stuff was done. Maybe needed some heat on particularly frosty days.

I didn't use fertilizer. I got this starting mix from Gardener's Supply. It's the best I've ever used and has just enough nutrients to give the plants a start. Years ago I got their styrofoam plant starters and while they worked great they were a pain to store and maintain! You can create it with peat moss, vermiculite and compost mix in even portions.

Below you can see my started plants doing it this way in early May - they turned out pretty well. Plus even if the ones in Gallon pots got leggy, like Lee said I would trench them and have not only a super root system but also strong tops. The trouble in Washington is what you experienced this year - cold and damp so tomatoes were difficult to set and ripen. I am really looking forward to this year, although since I moved here it's been nothing but cold and damp!!!

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b340/deberosa/DEBEROSA/IMG_0005.jpg

[Laura]

Deberosa,

AMAZING. My plants have never ever been that big.
I have tried to transplant, but ended up killing them. Maybe I tried when they were too small?
What if I just started them in larger pots?
Even your SMALLEST starts were much bigger than my biggest starts!! Just wow.

I will be patient and wait until the first of March.....
Thank you everyone for the advice.

[Deberosa]

Laura, with tomatoes the size of the pot to start them in doesn't matter. Tomatoes seem to thrive on transplanting. I sow the seeds in the regular 6 packs and I am "sloppy" up to 6 seeds per compartment! Seems every one always germinates. Then I gently pull them apart and put them in the 4 inch pots so one six pack can yeild two dozen four inch potted plants. Again, plant them very deep so they can grow the roots along the stem. Then I move them to the gallon pots if they get too big for the four inch pots. If you start the first of March you will need a gallon pot for each of your tomatoes and space to put them. The tomatoes you see were started closer to the end of March and the picture was taken the 5th of May. They still had two weeks at least before going into the garden depending on the weather. Fortunately I had a hoop house that they would go into next.

If your tomatoes are not transplanting well it might be the potting mix because I don't think I ever had one not take to transplanting and I prick apart the babies with only a few true leaves and just roots to put into the 4 inch pots. I do use that potting mix and I mix it with warm water so the soil I put them in is warm. At least at the 4 inch stage - at the gallon stage I put them in regular dirt in the pots. The lights when you use them must be right up to the leaves and you have to be careful not to overwater or they will be week too. The potting mix helps because once damp it holds alot of the water. Also always water tomatoes from the bottom until they are in the gallon pots, then you can water into the pot.
Good luck!

Debbie

[nhlivefreeordie]

Laura, with tomatoes the size of the pot to start them in doesn't matter. Tomatoes seem to thrive on transplanting. I sow the seeds in the regular 6 packs and I am "sloppy" up to 6 seeds per compartment! Seems every one always germinates. Then I gently pull them apart and put them in the 4 inch pots so one six pack can yeild two dozen four inch potted plants. Again, plant them very deep so they can grow the roots along the stem. Then I move them to the gallon pots if they get too big for the four inch pots. If you start the first of March you will need a gallon pot for each of your tomatoes and space to put them. The tomatoes you see were started closer to the end of March and the picture was taken the 5th of May. They still had two weeks at least before going into the garden depending on the weather. Fortunately I had a hoop house that they would go into next.

If your tomatoes are not transplanting well it might be the potting mix because I don't think I ever had one not take to transplanting and I prick apart the babies with only a few true leaves and just roots to put into the 4 inch pots. I do use that potting mix and I mix it with warm water so the soil I put them in is warm. At least at the 4 inch stage - at the gallon stage I put them in regular dirt in the pots. The lights when you use them must be right up to the leaves and you have to be careful not to overwater or they will be week too. The potting mix helps because once damp it holds alot of the water. Also always water tomatoes from the bottom until they are in the gallon pots, then you can water into the pot.
Good luck!

Debbie

This is how I manage mine as well. Last year I planted 144 plants that I started in the basement. I am already getting everything ready, but I almost have to beat myself up to wait that long, but past years always come back to prove to me, that the earlier is not always the better way to go.

[Laura]

*deep sigh*
I shall wait!!

Please do tell what kind of soil / potting mix you use.
I have ferry morse organic seed start. If that is no good, let me know.

I also mix the above in warm water, so that when I drop the seeds in, it is already 'comfortable'!!

I sat down yesterday and planned everything out. I will order all my goodies Monday!!

144!! I am looking at doing about 60 this year. All Roma's. I will do a couple of slicers, but I will plant them in the front yard so they don't 'mix' with my Romas......I am going to try to save seeds this year!!

Thank you again for this information.

[SPIKE]

Laura,

I know it is hard to wait. Even I do not start this early.

Have you seen this old thread?http://www.backwoodshome.com/forum/vb/showthread.php?t=3575

LMAO at myself!!!

SPIKE

[nhlivefreeordie]

*deep sigh*
I shall wait!!

Please do tell what kind of soil / potting mix you use.
I have ferry morse organic seed start. If that is no good, let me know.

I also mix the above in warm water, so that when I drop the seeds in, it is already 'comfortable'!!

I sat down yesterday and planned everything out. I will order all my goodies Monday!!

144!! I am looking at doing about 60 this year. All Roma's. I will do a couple of slicers, but I will plant them in the front yard so they don't 'mix' with my Romas......I am going to try to save seeds this year!!

Thank you again for this information.

I use jiffy 7 seed starters, but any good seed start should be fine as long as temperature and light are right.