Dog killed a squirrel-more explanation!

[rideaway]

The other day, there was a grey squirrel out in our orchard. *I watched him slowly go over towards his tree. *I was holding our collie/shepard mix, who likes to chase birds and squirrels, and harasses our cats.

After the squirrel was close enough to the tree (I thought), I let the dog go and said "go ahead, chase him". *To my horror, the dog actually got to the squirrel, (the dog was moving fast) grabbed the squirrel a few times, and killed it. *I took it away and got rid of the body where he couldn't get to it. *I felt awful about it. *

Tonite, while it was still light, the dog and I walked out of the house and a big raccoon was coming our of the garage. *Bo (the dog) went right after him, in a frenzy, and they tusseled all the way down the bank to the creek, when the coon got loose. *Now, Bo has barked at the coons every nite on the other side of the back yard fence, so he already didn't like them. *(and yes, I checked for any bites, he didn't have any). *

Now my worry is what if this progresses. *We have livestock (goats, pigs, and a horse) that he doesn't bother-he actually lets the goats butt him hard. *But, I am worried that he will go after a neighbor cat or another squirrel and get into the habit. *

I guess I'm not going to be able to let him out unless he's on a lead (we live on 5 acres and that will be very sad, cause I love to let him run when we're outside working), but he did not listen to me at all, both the other day with the squirrel and today with the coon. *He just kinda was so "emotional" he didn't hear me. *When he lost the coon and came back to me, he knew he was in trouble, because he went right to the house and wouldn't look at me at all. *

Any suggestions?

[palerider]

I don't understand the problem. Your dog is protecting his property. Raccoons can and will kill chickens, steal eggs. Why anyone would want to have raccoons around their property baffles me. They certainly contribute nothing to the homesteader and will wreak havoc in any garden. Squirrels love orchards and their fruit as do raccoons and deer. Surely you are JESTING that you see your dog's behavior as a problem. As far as 'going after' the livestock, if he hasn't done it he is unlikely to start. He KNOWS the difference. Myself I HATE squirrels, they destroy new seedlings in the spring, plant weed trees(hedge and locust) all over the place and in general really ARE rats with fuzzy tails.
Now add to this, both of these "cute" animals (raccoons and squirrels) can carry rabies,fleas,ticks,distemper and all kinds of internal parasites that they can spread to your livestock, do you really want them around???
Leave your dog alone, he IS your friend and helping you, obviously more than you know.

[rideaway]

I don't want the coons around, or the skunks, (but he's never chased the skunks, thank goodness)

My main concern is that he already is "overly enthusiastic" about chasing our cats, even to the point of cornering them in the garage and putting them up the wall (which is metal). *I am worried that he will now not be satisfied with just cornering them, and if he goes after the neighbor's cats, they will shoot him.

I love Bo dearly-he is really a good dog, and a major part of our family (all of our animals are family) except he takes way too much space in the middle of the queen sized bed at night-LOL and takes up my pillow.

And, if he starts chasing everything without listening to me when I tell him to stop, it's gonna get bad. *We have deer that he used to just be satisfied to chase to the edge of the mountain, but if he carries it further and won't come back, he WILL BE SHOT and I don't want that to happen. *

So, when before he would listen to me and come back, now, after killing the squirrel, it's like he's on overload and won't respond. *Suggestions are appreciated. *I've had dogs all my life, and know good training is important-Bo is trained, and has usually minded, not chasing the cats when I tell him not to, etc, but I don't know how to get him redirected on this. *

Suggestions would be great...

[palerider]

I have one cat and six German Shorthaired pointers, notoriously cat sharp dogs. Three of the GSPs have absolutely no interest in Buffy, one likes to hang with him, one will try to (s)mother him. Of the other two one will chase him if the other is there too. The one girl that will chase him on his own will run him to the ground if he runs, if he just hunkers down, she just pokes him a few times and barks. She wanders off to chase something else. She knows, they all do that the cat is not prey or to be killed. I'll bet your dog knows that too. If you have cats in the house he recognizes that they cannot be "attacked".
My girls will occasionally brig home a rabbit (wild) or two over the course of a year. I believe that they mainly just chase, and the rabbit is probably old or sick and just keels over when stressed. Maybe part of the problem with the squirrel was just that.
I would worry about the problem with your neighbor's cats tho. I would try to desensitize your dog by keeping him WITH the cats. Supervise or provide a place where he can't reach them. Then I would start a program of brushing the cats and the using the same brush(leave the hair in it) to brush him. Be sure to get that scent on his paws and belly and anywhere else he can reach to smell and lick. I would rub the cats really well with a towel and put it in his bed. the thing is get him to smell like cat and get everything he LIKES to smell like cat. It will take a little while.
Remember, the BEST part for you dog is the CHASE. Get him something else to run after...a good long game of fetch or frisbee, they even have those things you load into your shotgun(no, not bullets) for dogs to retrieve.
I don't want to sound harsh, but... Cats have weapons too and can climb trees. If they are outside and wandering why doesn't a dog have the same right?
A dog can protect your home and property, a cat can do nothing in this regard. No reason they NEED to be outside a dog DOES NEED to be out to be a guardian whether against man or beast.

[nancy1340]

I pretty much agree with Palerider. I don't see much of a problem but if you are really worried about it you might look into buying a shock collar. That way when you take the dog out without a lead and it starts to chase something and won't respond to your "Stop" command you can give it a long distance reminder.

There area couple of questions that may explain what is happening.

What breed of dog? Is it a sight-hound. Very hard to train a sight-hound not to give chase when it see's "pray". Whether or not it kills it.

How old is the dog?

[rideaway]

He's a collie-shepard mix from the pound. He's about 3 1/2 now. He did really well this weekend when we brought the new piggies home, just checked them out and wanted to watch them. He didn't even look at the horse when I put her in her pasture, so I'm hopeful. I'm hoping that by being very consistent with him, he'll improve on his habit of not listening.

[Star1pup]

It sounds to me like Bo is just one great farm dog. We had dogs like that and after we got them we could actually harvest crops before the groundhogs ate them. Bo is just doing his job, but you might have to watch your cats.

We had a cat that slept with our 4 dogs, but let a strange cat enter our property and it had better find a tree in a hurry.

[EarthMama]

Yeah... some dogs have it (the instinct... desire... blood lust) to kill and some don't. Yours obviously has it so you're going to have to keep the dog on a lead if you don't want anymore slaughter.

We had two standard poodles who would never kill anything. I feed my wildlife "family" so it's a good thing! Both my dogs were so used to squirrels and things that they would go outside and go potty with a squirrel sitting not 10 feet away.

But if either one of the dogs (who are gone now, from old age) would have been not so good natured, they would have been on leads when outside and that would have been the end of that.

My wildlife family is important to me... just as much as my domesticated family is. I won't sacrifice one for the other. So I understand exactly where you're coming from... even though there may be others who don't.

~EarthMama

P.S. There was a story in our town several years ago, about a highly trained police dog who was hit by a car. This shepherd had been the #1 police dog on the force and was extremely obediently, as you would imagine. His policeman handler (who lived with the dog) was returning from a long walk with his canine companion and as the officer had always done for years, he took the leash off the dog when they were about 10 feet from the front door of the cop's house. Well, for the first time ever, the dog (in that short of a time and distance) saw something across the road (a wild animal) and tore off after it... despite the commands of his handler to stop. A car was coming... the dog got hit... and was dead. The owner and the whole police force were devastated about it but it just goes to show you... a dog is a dog is a dog... no matter how highly they're trained. A shock collar... dog training... whatever... probably won't stop a dog if he/she has a hankering to chase after an animal. If the dog has it in em to go after wildlife, you're pretty much not going to stop it unless you physically do so... by a lead (leash).

[jim]

As long as he isn't harming livestock, the trash animals can find another place to mooch. Shock collar might be a good thing to help avoid vehicle accidents though.
jim

[Penny_Plinker]

The squirrels and raccoons, may be trash animals. Yes indeed. I'd consider them such in a country setting, but that's not up for the dog to decide. Sounds like the problem is that he dog doesn't LISTEN to your commands. A dog needs to be able to be called off. *He needs some firm treatment along with the NO command so that he knows when the pack leader (you) says NO that means STOP, right now, not when he feels like it.

Penny

[Penny_Plinker]

Well, i just read EarthMammas PS about the police dog. So, maybe it is impossible to train a dog to listen to NO if the police dog didn't listen to NO. I'd try though.

For one thing, i wouldn't want the squirrels killed till squirrel season when they could be used as food. Right now they could have warbles and also young. I'd want to trap the raccoons in trapping season when their coat is prime. Make some money that way.

Penny

[MYellowRose]

I'd be very cautious about letting him "tussel" with 'coons or any warm-blooded wild animal as it may have rabies! Hopefully you dog has had his shots but if not I'd not let him around them if at all possible.

[CarolAnn]

Rideaway - some great advice here already! I'd just add that we trained my Boxer Muggs to stop trying to eat my cat when I was a kid. Mom laid on Muggs and held her mouth shut while I held my kitty's legs so she wouldn't scratch - and rubbed her all over Muggs' face. What a ruckus that was! I think we all got a little bruised when it was over because Muggs was full grown when we got her and was very strong. (The cat didn't take it kindly, either!)

But at the end of it, the cat was sleeping on Muggs back when they were curled up in the sun and they were great buddies.