Water Bath Canner vs Pressure Cooker/Canner [Archive]

Diavolicchio

12-30-2009, 08:15 PM

I've got another canning question . . . If you have a Pressure Cooker/Canner for canning things with meat in them, can you also use it as a Water Bath Canner, or are there reasons to have one of each? I understand they do different things, but If I'm able to accomplish both with one piece of equipment, it's much less for me to store in the kitchen.

Any recommendations for the best Water Bath Canners? I'm trying to find as large a one as possible. It would be great to be able to process 18 quarts at a time. The best I've found doing a quick search on the internet is this smaller model (http://www.amazon.com/Combo-Steam-Wath-Bath-Canner/dp/B002AHDVYS/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=home-garden&qid=1262236396&sr=1-1). I'd love to hear recommendations from the canning experts out there. Alternatively, I'd be using this Pressure Cooker/Canner (http://www.amazon.com/All-American-2-Quart-Pressure-Cooker-Canner/dp/B0002808ZM/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=home-garden&qid=1262236907&sr=1-1) if it can do both jobs. Thanks!

John

NCLee

12-31-2009, 12:21 AM

Yes, if your pressure canner is large enough, you can use it as a waterbath canner. To use it as such, you need be be able to cover the jars with 1"-2" of water plus room to allow the water to come to a full boil. Pressure canners large enough to allow double stacking of pints can be used to waterbath 7 quarts at a time.

You don't need a "waterbath canner" to waterbath canned goods. Any suitable container can be used. For a couple of quarts or pints, a stock pot works fine. For massive canning jobs a steel barrel can be used. A neighbor set a 55 gal drum on cement blocks and filled the barrel with jars. Then, built a fire under the barrel. Round grill racks were used to separate the layers of jars. While it worked, I wouldn't recommend going that far, due to the weight on the lower racks of jars, length of time to bring the contents to a boil, and the safety factor of dealing with 55 gal of boiling liquid.

Mentioned it as a way to illustrate that for big batch canning you're not locked into a traditional waterbath canner.

BTW, when I'm pressure canning I also use my waterbath canner. Use it for heating jars and for hot / boiling water, as needed. If I'm going to be canning for a couple of days or so in a row, I leave the covered waterbath on the stove. Since the water is boiled each time it's used, and kept covered, the water is fine for this purpose. Over a couple of days, it saves a lot of water, and I always have HOT water to add to the pressure canner when needed.

One more use for a waterbath canner. When we prep for possible loss of power (thus water) ahead of storms, I put the waterbath on the stove (gas) and fill it with water. This provides hot water for dish washing, cooking, etc. After heating, the water stays warm for a while. Good for handwashing, too. Use a large clean coffee mug or a small sauce pan for dipping.

Yet, another use. When hot packing large amounts of food, prep in the water bath canner for the pressure canner. May need a flame tamer under the waterbath, as the bottom is thin. That provides a "cushion" to keep foods from sticking and burning. Most of the time it isn't needed. But once in a while, it helps for dense foods or those with sugar, such as apples.

Remembered one more.... :) I use mine for blanching corn on the cob that's vacuum sealed for the freezer. Or, for cooking corn on the cob for a crowd in the backyard during the summer. Set the waterbath on a turkey fryer burner. Let them shuck and cook their own corn. :wink:

Oh, one more. With a trivet in the bottom, it's the only pot I have that'll handle a boiled corned ham for Christmas. Stock pots are too narrow. Just before frost, I cooked a large amount of turnip greens for the freezer in one. Started out with a 12 qt stock pot. Switched over to the waterbath, when I realized that stock pot wasn't going to hold all of it.

Finally, a water bath canner is a good place to store misc canning supplies between canning sessions - funnels, jar lifters, dipper, bubble wand, etc.

IMHO, it's well worth having both pieces of canning equipment. Each can due dual duty, as appropriate for the canner.

As you can tell, by now, I like waterbath canners for their multi-tasking capability. Have my Mom's, MIL's, and a couple more that I've picked up a flea markets. Using 2 turkey fryers in the backyard I can put up 14 qts at a time.

Hope this helps with your decision.
Lee

Diavolicchio

12-31-2009, 05:22 AM

Lee:

Thanks for the great, informative response. It was very helpful. I guess I'll take your advice and go with both, making sure that the water bath is about half the size of the pressure cooker, so I've got a more efficient way of doing smaller batches as well. It just doesn't make very much sense when you want to can six quarts to be pulling out that monster with the capacity to do nineteen. Plus, I never thought through the other benefits of having that water bath as you clearly explained.

One question I DO have is whether or not I should end up using a separate single burner propane stove with a ton of BTUs (http://www.amazon.com/Bayou-Classic-SP10-High-Pressure-Outdoor/dp/B000291GBQ/ref=pd_sim_k_9) for cooking the huge pots of sauce themselves. I don't know that I want to get a kitchen sweltering in August when it comes time to make sauce. I'm thinking it may make more sense to have the single burner set up temporarily on the enclosed back porch, immediately outside the kitchen, to accommodate the pots of sauces. I would keep the pressure cooker on the kitchen stove though, while the sauce cooked 10 feet away just outside the kitchen door.

Does this make sense? Or should I do it the other way around with that huge pressure cooker on the porch and the sauce on the stove top?

If I'm able to grow the amount of tomatoes this coming year that I'm attempting, I don't want to turn my kitchen (and house) into a steamy sauna for days on end. Since I'm completely new to this, I have NO idea which would produce more steam and heat---a huge pot of sauce constantly going, or a huge pressure cooker.

Finally, if I use a pressure cooker/water bath that's capable of processing 19 quarts at a time, what's the largest size stock pot I should consider buying in which to actually cook the sauce, without running the risk of having more that 19 quarts of finished sauce at a time ready to process? Would a 40 quart stock pot (http://www.amazon.com/Winware-Stainless-Quart-Steel-Stock/dp/B001AS81BG/ref=pd_sim_ol_7) be sufficiently large to cook down the ingredients necessary for 19 quarts of finished sauce at a time, or would you up it to a huge 60 quart stock pot, just to have the extra space in the pot?

What are your thoughts?

John

nhlivefreeordie

12-31-2009, 05:37 AM

Diavolicchio

12-31-2009, 05:51 AM

Possibly invest in a Coleman stove or two, or maybe a couple of turkey fryers so you can do it all outside. I only did about 400 lbs of tomatoes this year, and had the windows steamed up most all the time I was canning, they both give off a lot of heat and moisture.

I appreciate the info. All of that constant steam is exactly the situation I'm trying to avoid. I wouldn't attempt to actually cook sauce outdoors, but if it made sense to have the pressure cooker going outdoors, I'd be fine with that.

I'm going to be building a new place this coming Fall (probably through Spring of 2011) and now have the flexibility to design things in such a way to best accommodate a lot of canning. If I can do both the cooking of the sauce and the processing of it on separate burners on the back porch, that would be ideal. I'll just have to figure out exactly how much space I'd need to have two single burners and two huge pots going side-by-side. I'm guessing I'd also want to address the potential headache of filling and draining a huge pot on the back porch (maybe adding a spigot and drain out there as well?) as well as an adequate ventilation system.

Thanks again for the feedback.

John

nhlivefreeordie

12-31-2009, 05:58 AM

You got it right, a spigot with a hose out back will help a lot, and you might find it easier in the long run. Back 3 issues or so, there was an article on backyard canning parties.
When we build our house in NH, I am going to install a canning kitchen in half of the basement, with a restaurant exhaust hood to eliminate the heat and steam. Plan to have a wood cookstove down there as well as a surplus restaurant gas stove, and stainless 3 bay sink, that way Lynn's kitchen can remain the way she likes it.

NCLee

12-31-2009, 05:58 AM

From what you're describing, I'd setup a "summer kitchen" outside on the enclosed backporch. This can either be temporary or permanent, depending on your budget, needs, and just plain what you'd like to do.

For example, for about $100 you can get a double laundry sink from Lowes or Home Depot. Hook it up with a food grade water hose. Use a sump pump drain line to handle the waste water.

A folding table 30" x 5' or 8' can serve as your prep area.

As for your heat source(s) there are a lot of options. However, one thing to keep in mind is that turkey fryers and similar high out put heat sources may be too much for pressure canners and cooking sauces. Often you can't turn down the heat enough to maintain pressure or to prevent a sauce from burning. A high horsepower turkey fryer is great for heating large quanties of water, for water bath canning, etc. For your sauces and pressure canning, look for propane burners that are made for cooking. They have more BTU output than a Coleman camp stove, for example.

My workshop is a semi summer kitchen. I put a regular gas stove in it that runs off a 100 lb propane tank. Put in one of those laundry sinks described above.

If you can run a 220 line for an outlet, consider looking for a high btu electric burner for your pressure canner. My old gas stove didn't have enough BTU's to handle canning the way my prior electric cooktop did. In comparison, it took forever to heat up the canner to the point to build pressure. For a while I had both the cooktop and the gas stove in my kitchen. Canning was done on the electric, while prep work was done on the gas. Now have a 6 burner gas with a range of BTU's from simmer to high output.

As to sizes of stock pots and such, I don't have the experience to to the volume that you're planning on doing to be able to offer advice. With my setup I just started canning with what I had, bushel of tomatoes, bushel of string beans, etc. and canned until I finished them. Then, started all over again with another batch, if I had the produce to do it.

Hope these thoughts help.
Lee

Diavolicchio

12-31-2009, 06:33 AM

NHLive:

I'd like to get your thoughts on this little back porch area and how it could be modified for a permanent 'canning space' that would simply accommodate a utility sink, a lowered counter top that would hold two side-by-side single propane gas burners, and a small waist-high counter space for actually filling jars. I would do all of the prep work in the kitchen, but simply carry the ingredients to this little room to cook, can and process.

Here's a close up of the area on the back porch I'd modify (in blue):

http://www.meticulum.com/kitchen_and_porch.jpg

The little room only measures about 5' x 8' (I'd lose that central wall and open it up) but it's immediately outside the backdoor of the kitchen. Do you think if I made this 5' x 8' space one room and put in a good ventilation system in the ceiling, that I could use it for the purposes we've been discussing? Or do you think a room this small with that much heat and steam would be a nightmare waiting to happen (or a fireball waiting to combust?)

I'd leave the door of this littlle room open when I'm cooking in there, and also leave a screendoor open on this enclosed back porch, allowing the air to continually circulate.

Is this idea nuts?

John

nhlivefreeordie

12-31-2009, 07:11 AM

Diavolicchio

12-31-2009, 07:27 AM

John,

I think that is a great idea, you can always get a high volume exhaust fan, either through the wall, ( easiest ) Broan makes through wall exhaust fans that would fit your needs, I don't believe you would need a huge fan, maybe a 380 CFM which is about 3-4 times the capacity of the larger bathroom ventilators, would eliminate the moisture and heat. Looks like you could vent from near the ceiling against the back wall and vent directly outside? I think that room will do what you are looking for, you will have jar storage under the counters, I can't wait to start setting my canning kitchen up in the new house.
I hope you have lots of helpers, a good food mill like a victorio will be very handy, and with the amount you are planning on, maybe even a powered unit rather than hand crank. Good Luck!!

You'll have to post some details about the kind of canning kitchen you're going to be setting up. I'm always interested to seeing how other people are doing this stuff.

I have seen the Broan kitchen ventilation hoods, but I'm particularly intrigued by a few of the Broan (and Nutone) bathroom ventilation fans which have automatic humidity sensors to kick in whenever there's steam to get rid of. I'd go with one of those models specifically, like THIS ONE (http://www.bathfans.com/broan-qtxe110s-bath-fan-only-110-cfm-0-7-sones-energy-star-humidity-sensing/p418012). I guess the question is whether I could get by with one of these higher-end bath ventilation fans, or whether I indeed would have to stick a kitchen hood ventilator into a 5' x 8' room. I'm hoping I could get by with that Broan. Given that I'd always have the door to this canning space open while I'm canning, I wouldn't be looking for a complete ventilation solution, but just a supplemental one.

If you've got suggestions for other makes/models of ventilation fans, would you mind posting links of them? I want to make sure I'm understand the type you've got in mind. Thanks.

John

Diavolicchio

12-31-2009, 08:02 AM

NCLee

12-31-2009, 09:31 AM

NHLive,

It's great getting your feedback about all of this. I really think this idea of a "summer canning kitchen" on the back porch is a great one. One aspect of this set-up that's ideal is that this little room is right above the stairway to the root cellar where everything will be stored.

Logistically, it couldn't be easier, short of having a dumb-waiter.

Also, since this little room will have a utility sink, it would be a great place to wash up (or to wash up produce) prior to coming into the house from the garden.

John

John, why would you need to bring produce into the kitchen? Unless I'm missing something in your posts, appears that you can do all the prep work in your "summer kitchen". If counter space is too small, you can top most utility sinks with a cutting board, thus making it dual duty. A half-sheet pan with a flexible plastic cutting board works, too. I use that for cutting up meat as it keeps the juices contained. A couple of stacked bus trays or plastic dishpans can go in/under the bench/shelves section, to be used, as needed with your utility sink.

Looks like it would be fairly easy to get both hot and cold water to your utility sink, if you have a crawlspace.

Also, looks like you have space for some narrow shelving on the wall opposite your summer kitchen area. (Including wider shelving over the window.) This will give you additonal storage for jars, and such. Wider shelf for canners, etc. if the shelf doesn't interfere with the opening of the door.

If your budget will permit, I'd like to suggest that you punch through one of those walls and put in a window to admit light in the area. If you do that on the outside wall, you can supplement your exhaust fan with a window fan that blows to the outside. Or, flip it around for a cool breeze, while doing prep work, unless you have an AC vent in your summer kitchen.

Do you have the ceiling height to add a pot rack overhead? That'll free up some much needed counter/cabinet space. Hang your funnels, jar lifter, saucepan for heating lids, etc on the rack.

If you have a place to "park" it, a rolling kitchen cart with drawers will be another handy item to have. I have one topped with a 24'x30" cutting board and built in knife rack. It's handy for a lot of different things. Can be pulled close to the sink, if needed, or pushed out of the way, when it isn't. Can be a landing spot for hot jars. Or, storage spot for jars to be washed, etc. Again, those flexible cutting mats come in handy, if I need to protect the top. Underneath mine I keep big mixing bowls, salad spinner, etc. These stay covered with flour sack towels so they are ready to use without having to rinse before hand.

Just some more thoughts that may be helpful.

Lee

AlchemyAcres

12-31-2009, 09:52 AM

If you have a place to "park" it, a rolling kitchen cart with drawers will be another handy item to have. I have one topped with a 24'x30" cutting board and built in knife rack. It's handy for a lot of different things. Can be pulled close to the sink, if needed, or pushed out of the way, when it isn't. Can be a landing spot for hot jars. Or, storage spot for jars to be washed, etc. Again, those flexible cutting mats come in handy, if I need to protect the top. Underneath mine I keep big mixing bowls, salad spinner, etc. These stay covered with flour sack towels so they are ready to use without having to rinse before hand.

I intend to make my outdoor kitchen all portable so I can move it around the place, if needed, for various reasons.
Including a portable wood fired earth oven.

Something like this.......

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y98/cooko75/180-047-01b.gif

~Martin

sissy

12-31-2009, 04:02 PM

Diavolicchio

12-31-2009, 06:00 PM

How will you keep your jars sterilized & hot till you fill them? I keep mine in the oven on 200 to 250 degrees, take a few out at a time to fill. I've got a cart that I put them on after washing, then they are read for oven. Makes it faster & easier.
Sissy

Sissy,

I'm not quite sure whom you're addressing with your question about sterilization, but for me, all of the sterilized jars, lids and bands will be sterilized in the main kitchen and kept there until needed in the summer canning kitchen which will be 10 feet away, on the enclosed back porch, just outside the kitchen door.

John

nhlivefreeordie

12-31-2009, 08:36 PM

You'll have to post some details about the kind of canning kitchen you're going to be setting up. I'm always interested to seeing how other people are doing this stuff.

I have seen the Broan kitchen ventilation hoods, but I'm particularly intrigued by a few of the Broan (and Nutone) bathroom ventilation fans which have automatic humidity sensors to kick in whenever there's steam to get rid of. I'd go with one of those models specifically, like THIS ONE (http://www.bathfans.com/broan-qtxe110s-bath-fan-only-110-cfm-0-7-sones-energy-star-humidity-sensing/p418012). I guess the question is whether I could get by with one of these higher-end bath ventilation fans, or whether I indeed would have to stick a kitchen hood ventilator into a 5' x 8' room. I'm hoping I could get by with that Broan. Given that I'd always have the door to this canning space open while I'm canning, I wouldn't be looking for a complete ventilation solution, but just a supplemental one.

If you've got suggestions for other makes/models of ventilation fans, would you mind posting links of them? I want to make sure I'm understand the type you've got in mind. Thanks.

John

John,

That model you suggested is a good quiet unit, I believe it is like 0.4 sones, but it is still only 110CFM. Most broan fans can be ordered with the humidity sensor, the one you chose also is a ceiling mount. I thought maybe an easier solution would be to mount the through the wall fan up high directly opposite the door, and vent it through a wall cap to the outside. The Broan 510 would absolutely handle it, there would be an added charge for the humidity sensor, but in an outdoor kitchen, I think a switch that you turn on an off would work better.

sissy

12-31-2009, 08:39 PM

Diavolicchio,
Sissy, I'm not quite sure whom you're addressing with your question about sterilization, but for me, all of the sterilized jars, lids and bands will be sterilized in the main kitchen and kept there until needed in the summer canning kitchen which will be 10 feet away, on the enclosed back porch, just outside the kitchen door.
Sorry, It was to you. I was just wondering how you would keep them hot. Thats not that far away :D
Sissy

Travis

12-31-2009, 10:24 PM

I saw a few posted about making sauces and what my grandma does is uses crockpots for sauces since they can be set and forgot about and being a sealed electrical unit can be used in other places besides the kitchen if and when you run out of room.

John I would try and set up a canning area in that area you have. The worse that could come from it is that it doesn't work. I would definetly do as suggested and go mobile and go up. Everything needs to multitask like a cutting board over the sink that would act like counter space when you are not cutting. Also if you do a kitchen remodel retire the old appliances to to canning duty if they are still half way decent.

Diavolicchio

12-31-2009, 10:49 PM

Travis:

The summer canning kitchen I'm proposing would be going into a new home (and modest cottage -- 1,384 sq ft) for which I've not even broken ground yet. I'm just finishing the design phase of the house now. I won't begin building the place until this coming Fall.

Given that this far in advance I've got the luxury of being able to design exactly what I want, I really like the idea of having a small seasonal canning kitchen that is connected to, but separate from, the main part of the house, so I don't end up turning the house itself into a steamy, sweltering sauna for the month or so every year when I plan to do a ton of canning (which invariably will be the hottest months.)

The little summer canning kitchen will be quite basic. It will only measure 5' x 8' and simply contain a utility sink (which will also be helpful for cleaning produce and dirty hands before bringing them into the house); a small L-shaped counter with two single-burner propane cooktops (http://www.ajmadison.com/phpdocs/ajtest/item_image_browser.php?sku=IM15&AutoNumber=181987) and a separate workspace/butcher block for handling prep work; some cupboard storage; and a good, reliable ventilation system and fan to keep the room as humidity-free as possible when in use.

It would be twice as expensive to ADD this little room AFTER the house is built then it would to design it into the plans right now. That's why I'm going to do it when the house is built.

By the way, I will also use this little seasonal kitchen space for purposes of making huge batches of apple butter, jams, jellies and other preserves that will also produce a lot of humidity in the cooking process, simply on the basis of volume.

In the instances that I'm making small batches of things that don't require a 40 quart stock pot or 40 quart pressure canner, I plan on making all of them in the main kitchen.

I hope this helps clarify things.

Happy New Year!

John

Mom5farmboys

01-01-2010, 08:32 AM

Given that this far in advance I've got the luxury of being able to design exactly what I want, I really like the idea of having a small seasonal canning kitchen that is connected to, but separate from, the main part of the house, the little summer canning kitchen will be quite basic. It will only measure 5' x 8' and simply contain a utility sink (which will also be helpful for cleaning produce and dirty hands before bringing them into the house);
John

Since you have time to plan things out in advance I thought I would mention what we are planning on doing after we get our kitchen remodel done. We have an old chicken coop (quite a large one actually) and we will replace the windows and wiring and drywall it. Then we will put everything from our old kitchen out in the coop (fridge, stove, sink, counters, cupboards, work tables, etc.) We will also build shelving to hold all the jars and canning supplies so when we use a jar of something up, it can be washed and sent right out to the coop to go on the shelf (The canned food will be stored in the house in the pantry).

As far as plumbing goes when we did the ran the new pipes in the farmhouse we ran hot and cold taps on the outside of the house. Its great because there are some jobs that hot water works better for. I am planning on running 2 hoses from the house to the chicken coop for water (one hot-one cold) when it is needed. That way in the winter when it freezes here all I need to do to winterinze is roll the hoses up and put them where they wont freeze, and blow out the pipes in the sink. For drainage of the sink I am going to run a pipe out to a perferated tile line right next to my strawberry patch and let the greywater water my berries.

One more note I put an old double laundry tub next to the faucet in my backyard and when I have anything messy (like produce, or kids lol) that needs to be washed off I can do it there and not get the house as dirty. I just bring it into a shed for winter storage.

Travis

01-01-2010, 09:09 AM

Diavolicchio

01-01-2010, 05:28 PM

John I thought this was an already built house. Since it is new There is several changes I would make.

1) Remove the swing door and go with a pocket door. Still able to close off the area but the door will not be in the way.

2) Widen the room by 3' to make it 8 x 8, this way you can have 24" counters on each side with a 4' walk way in the middle, also install the door in the center of the room. Standard bottom cabinets are 24".

3) The window between the doors I'd push out 2' and put a cabinet under the window. Great for canning/general storage. Best of all the top of the cabinet could be used as a seat,for starting plants or when canning you can place jars coming in/out.

Travis:

1) Good call on the pocket door. I'll do that.

2) I've got exactly 5' x 8' to work with. I'm keeping it at that. I don't want to make the back porch any larger than it currently is. And the room in the previous floor plan cannot extend over the basement stairs without blocking them off. I'll have room for one counter on the long wall that's 24" deep and a wrap around counter on the end opposite the door that's also 24" deep. It's a LITTLE room and meant to be. And yes, it certainly runs the risk of being a bit claustrophobic. But Remember, this is a seasonal room and not meant to be a full kitchen. I'll have one of those 5 feet away.

By the way, there will be a low (1' x 8') dormer in the ceiling of this room (directly above the long counter) which will allow in light and extra ventilation. I will most likely also add a window on the wall opposite the door to the room.

Thanks for the great feedback. It's much appreciated.

John

NCLee

01-02-2010, 03:53 AM

John, I hope you don't mind my 2-cents. I too, thought you were working with an existing building.

I'd like to suggest that you re-consider your plans. From what I've gathered from your posts, you're planning to do high volume canning. And, you're planning to do it in 40 sq ft of space. So, you'll be working in an area a little larger than a piece of plywood (32 sq ft).

Personally, I can't imagine myself being able to work in that small a space while doing a lot of canning. Yes, I know your kitchen is only 5' away. And, yes, I know that you're isolating the heat and humidity from the rest of your house.

But, I suspect that you're going to quickly tire of all the walking and carrying things back and forth. Because you're going to be opening and closing doors so often, or leaving them open for convenience, you'll still have to deal with an increase in both the heat & humidity in your home.

And, while I could be wrong, I suspect you're going to find yourself needing to be in two places at the same time. I keep my pressure canner in sight and hearing when it's in operation. When doing multiple batches, you'll be wanting to do the prep work for the second batch, while the first batch is processing. That's the way to gain the most efficiency from the process.

Previously you mentioned doing 19 quarts (capability of 32 pints) at a time. You're going to need working space for prepping empty jars and a landing zone for the filled ones. While you can prep the jars in the kitchen, please take measurements to make sure you have enough counter space to set those filled jars for at least 12 hours without moving them. At 3 batches a day that's 57 quarts with room for the air to circulate around them. I'm sure you don't want to carry jars filled with boiling liquid to another location, if you can avoid it.

You can use sheet of cardboard placed on the floor to do a countertop mockup. Set empty jars on it, along with boxes, etc. to represent any equipment that you haven't purchased yet. Also, allow working room around the equipment. Toss in the extras, like potholders, jar lifter, paper towels, etc. You'll also need a landing spot for the canner top when you remove it from the canner. If you have other pot lids that have to be removed at the same time, you'll need a spot for them, too.

In thinking about it, you may want to make a cardboard mockup of the entire space with everything to scale. Then, do a walk through of the entire process, just to see if you have enough physical room to do all that you want to do.

Since you don't want to change the footprint of your home, consider putting your canning (summer) kitchen in the basement. If your budget is tight, it doesn't have to be expensive. While you may be putting granite countertops in your kitchen upstairs, Formica countertops, even plywood counters sealed with spar varnish will work fine. Habitat for Humanity may have exactly what you need at a reasonable price. If you use the basement you can put in a full sized gas or electric stove. Cost may not be any more than the cost of the burners you are planning to purchase. Plus you can put in a full sized kitchen sink, too.

With your pantry also in the basement you'll have a higher degree of convenience. I'm thinking about having to take 57 filled jars downstairs, bringing up the empty's to prep, etc.

John, I hope you'll find these suggestions to be food for thought, before you finalize your plans. In any event, good luck with whatever you decide to do.

Lee

Diavolicchio

01-02-2010, 04:35 AM

Lee:

A lot of great food for thought and a bit to chew on for awhile. I really appreciate you taking the time to offer your thoughts. I'm on here to learn and to benefit from the experiences of others.

Your point is well taken about the proposed summer canning room just being too small. I guess I've just been a bit stubborn about increasing the size of it because much of the design of the house has been about going smaller wherever possible and not in the other direction.

That being said, it doesn't make sense to make a 5' x 8' space to can in the summer if it's just not enough space to be practical. Travis' post to me recently addressed the same headache. The problem is that I can't do it in the basement. I've designed the house the way I have because it's very important to me to keep the basement as a cool root cellar, thermally isolated from the house above it. That's why the only way you can access the basement is via a set of stairs off of the back porch, and not from inside the house itself. The last thing I want to subject the basement to are heat and humidity, regardless of time of year.

I think the solution may me to make the original 5' x 8' space a little large, subsequently making the whole shed extension on the house larger that contains the back porch. I would basically be pulling the back porch out an additional two feet which would get passed onto the canning kitchen.

It's not much additional space, but having a 7' x 8' canning room may just give me enough extra storage space and area to move to make it work. Basically it would be 1 3/4 sheets of plywood in size :) I could accommodate two - 24" deep counters on each side and a 36" wide aisle between them. I would be more comfortable going this route because I'd have a whole extra 24" x 96" counter on which to can and to actually let quart jars cool. The main counter would be comprised of a utility sink, the two single-burner high power propane burners, and a prep area.

I'd really need to sit down and figure out how best to lay the space out, but this does make more sense than trying to cook in a large closet.

I really don't want to increase the square footage of this home above 1,400 sq ft, but I guess I'd have to if I made this change to the back porch (the porch is completely enclosed, heated and insulated, so I'm counting it as livable space in my square footage calculations.)

I made some quick alterations in Photoshop to give you a general idea of the change:

http://www.meticulum.com/scc.jpg

I'm going to have to sit with this for a bit and see if I can make a work. But I do think the extra 2 feet of width in the room would allow for a much more workable canning space.

Lee, Travis? Thanks.

John

P.S. Just so things don't look out of proportion, the counters in the main kitchen are 30" deep, 6" beyond standard. But I would go with just the 24" deep counters in the canning area.

nhlivefreeordie

01-02-2010, 05:33 AM

Instead of causing the plans of your whole house be dictated by the fact that you want to keep heat and humidity to a minimum because of food storage.......why not leave a doorway in the basement foundation, and put an actual root cellar in off the main basement, that way you can use your basement and not worry about sacrificing the whole basement. A thick insulated, airtight door to the root cellar will allow you to do this.

Diavolicchio

01-02-2010, 05:43 AM

NHLive:

That's a great idea, but it's just more basement and more money. The amount of space that I've currently got planned for a basement (742 sq ft) is more than adequate. Part of it will be true root cellar space that will be allowed to get down to 35F in the winter; the rest will simply be unheated but well-insulated. I just don't want to put boiling, steaming cauldrons of sauce down there. That's just asking for trouble.

Here's the layout of the basement, so you've got a better idea of things:

http://www.meticulum.com/basement.jpg

Thanks for the suggestion. I'm flattered you took the time.

John

nhlivefreeordie

01-02-2010, 06:04 AM

Diavolicchio

01-02-2010, 06:19 AM

I just know that in New England, at least for me, a cellar is an integral part of my existence, and I use it for many things that might cause humidity, I have worked in a root cellar off the main basement, that has a dirt floor, and is totally closed off via an insulated, air tight door, I still have a year or so before the foundation goes in, so it may yet still evolve.

I understand completely where you're coming from. The root cellars will need to maintain certain levels of humidity to do their jobs--especially the main room of the root cellar. The problem is I need to keep it COLD and humid. I just don't want to use the main room of the basement for anything that will be producing a lot of hot humidity, i.e. steam.

I'll be curious to hear more about how your project evolves.

John

NCLee

01-02-2010, 06:31 AM

The problem is that I can't do it in the basement. I've designed the house the way I have because it's very important to me to keep the basement as a cool root cellar, thermally isolated from the house above it. That's why the only way you can access the basement is via a set of stairs off of the back porch, and not from inside the house itself. The last thing I want to subject the basement to are heat and humidity, regardless of time of year.

John, one word jumped out at me as I read your thoughts on making changes and why. Before going any further, I'd like to ask a question.

What are you planning to store in the root cellar? The reason why I'm asking is that humidity is an important factor in the operation of a root cellar.

Lee

Diavolicchio

01-02-2010, 06:44 AM

Lee I need humidity in the root cellar, unquestionably. What I don't need though is warm or HOT humidity, i.e. steam.

The main room of the root cellar is for storing apples and pears (80 to 90% humidity, but temps ideally from 32F to 40F)

The storage room off the main root cellar will be for garlic, onions and shallots (60 to 70% humidity, but temps ideally from 32F to 40F)

I'm just don't want the occasional blast of steam blowing into the main root cellar. Moreover, I just don't like the idea of cooking some place that is that far removed from the kitchen upstairs.

John

NCLee

01-02-2010, 07:47 AM

OK John, I see you have the root cellar humidity well under control. I like the separation that you've built into the plan for the two different environments needed. Should work well.

Based on your basement design, with a good exhaust system over your cooking surface, issues with heat and humidity won't be a material problem, IMHO.

That said, your preference to work upstairs is very understandable. The only further advice that I have, at this point, is to try to make the workspace as large as you can make it within your budget and your footprint limitations. I can in my kitchen. It's 13'x 20'. Sometimes that doesn't seem like it's large enough when I'm doing big batch processing during the summer.

Every foot that you can add to your canning kitchen layout will be a big help.

Lee

Diavolicchio

01-02-2010, 07:57 AM

Lee:

Again, thanks for the invaluable input.

One factor that really plays into things with me is the whole "Not So Big House" theory. I originally thought I wanted a 2,100 sq ft house, but the architect I'm working with is very much about sustainability and leaving as small a footprint on this planet as possible. I now am as well. So the goal was to design a house that provided me with everything I needed with no excess or waste, and to take the money saved by going with a structure 2/3rds the size of my original plans, and use it take make that smaller home much better.

I've increased the back porch by an extra two feet, recalculated the overall usable square footage in the house (excluding staircases and basement) and end up with 1,398 sq ft, just a hair under my goal of 2/3rds of my original plans. I don't want to go any larger than this. The goal now is to maximize what I can do within the space I'm allowing myself. I've now got a 7' x 8' space to work with as a seasonal canning kitchen, and I'll get every square inch of use out of it that I can. Would doubling the size of this room make it more useful? Undoubtedly. But I'm staying within the guidelines I've set for myself.

I'm pretty sure I'll be able to create a great little kitchen annex in that 7' x 8' room that would allow me to do practically anything I'd need to. I just might have to be a bit more creative about logistics.

I hope this all makes sense.

Thanks again!

John

NCLee

01-02-2010, 09:40 AM

John, thanks for further sharing your goals for your design.

My home is 1800' and some of the space is poorly utilized. The master bedroom is far too large, for example. Wish I had the excess space in there in the adjacent dinning room, instead. Even 2 more feet in the dinning room would be a big help, when it's my turn to host our family get-togethers. If I hadn't ripped out the carpet and laid hardwood flooring in the dinning room, I'd move the wall those 2 feet. Since it's not load bearing, the only problem I see is a couple of electrical outlets that'll need junction boxes somewhere they are accessable.

The reason why I mentioned this, is that you may want to look at the rest of your home to see if you can shift the plan to gain a little more space in your canning kitchen without expanding the footprint. For example, if you've planned for a kingsize bed in the master, would a queen work for you? May only gain a foot, but personally I'd rather have that extra foot of space while I'm working instead of sleeping. :)

As to being creative.... let it mull around for awhile. Then come back to it in a few days. Sometimes just taking a fresh look at it will inspire new thoughts to help you fine tune it. For example, just thought about adding a dumb waiter to fit under one of your counters. Don't know if one can be designed to work that way, but it would sure save some wear and tear in taking things up and down the stairs. Or maybe elsewhere on your porch. I'd have to pull up the plan again to take a look. But I'm sure you'll know as soon as you read this note as to whether that's feasible or not.

Lee

Diavolicchio

01-03-2010, 09:08 AM

The reason why I mentioned this, is that you may want to look at the rest of your home to see if you can shift the plan to gain a little more space in your canning kitchen without expanding the footprint. For example, if you've planned for a kingsize bed in the master, would a queen work for you? May only gain a foot, but personally I'd rather have that extra foot of space while I'm working instead of sleeping. :)

Lee,

I've been thinking through this whole house design for quite some time. The house itself is nearly complete; I'm just looking to address this little seasonal canning kitchen space. And knowing that it will be located on the enclosed back porch near the kitchen, I've now got a 7' x 8' space to work with. I'm not going to make it any larger. The challenge now is to simply make the absolute best use of this amount of space as possible.

I just posted a request for suggestions about this on The Harvest Forum of GardenWeb (http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/load/harvest/msg011300388463.html). It'll be interesting to see what ideas I get from people.

Thanks again for your invaluable input.

John

Travis

01-03-2010, 08:00 PM

Diavolicchio

01-03-2010, 08:31 PM

John only advice I have at this point is with counters on one wall I'd make it so the stove is near centered. This allows you to have jars to the right ready to go in and jars to the left sitting and cooling. Same goes for the other side with the sink on one side is dirty stuff and the other is clean. To me flow is important. Also uper cabinets are a must wether you use the standard tall units which iirc are 42" tall or go shorter. Either way more storage the better.

Great ideas, Travis. I've not done enough canning to totally understand the ideal flow of things. It's good to get this kind of feedback.

One idea that was suggested to me earlier tonight was to consider putting in a permanent L-shaped counter (instead of one long counter down each side), and to add a rolling kitchen cart (http://www.meticulum.com/rcc.jpg) to fill up that extra counter space. This way, I could remove that section of counter as needed to the main kitchen, and potentially have enough extra room for someone else to give me a hand on occasion without the room being over-cramped. Most of the time though I'd be doing this solo, so this movable kitchen cart would simply be a counter top workspace in the canning kitchen that has well thought out storage beneath.

What are your thoughts?

John

Travis

01-03-2010, 09:07 PM

John an L shape counter gives you an 8' long cabinet then a 5' cabinet with a blind corner which you can maximixe by using a lazy susan that looks like pac man.

A galley set up give you 8' of counter on each side and no blind corners to contend with. May be a little crowded but if you stagger the sink and stove it is do able.

As for a cart you could build a cabinet that is tall enough that a cart will slide in under one half. Roll it in/out as needed. Personally for the distance I see it being more of a hinderance than a savor. How about building a box the size of a case of canning jars. Fill it with new empty jars and walk it from the kitchen to canning room and when full to storage. Like you said its but 5' or so. To me trying to move the cart in/out and also have it in the room with you and say another person sounds crowded.

Diavolicchio

01-03-2010, 10:00 PM

Travis:

I think the box idea is a brilliant one. I'll use it. I'm using a similar idea in the living room by building a couple of deep shelves next to the woodstove that are the size of wooden apple boxes, each of which will hold an bushel-size apple box for storing and transporting firewood from outside. It just seemed like an easier way to manage wood for the wood stove.

Now I'll basically do the same thing with moving canning jars. Thanks.

To maximize the space in the canning kitchen, I think the way to go is with a U-shaped counter, with a large 30" wide double sink connecting both long counters. On the left as you walk in will be the counter with the two single burners centered in the middle (with the 12" x 72" transom window above it for extra ventilation); on the right as you walk on will be a long counter where the cooling, labeling and packing of the jars will get done (and the boxes you suggested stored beneath it.)

I'll also have a butcher block prep space to the left of the sink where produce that has been cleaned and washed can immediately be prepped.

I wonder if I'd regret not putting in a small second sink immediately inside the door to your left, at the end of the counter where the burners are located. It may be helpful for washing off produce in case the primary sink may be filled up. I'm just trying to think of flow and convenience. Maybe the extra little sink is just overkill.

Definitely a floor drain. And a high shelf for a radio. And more outlets than I think I probably need. Also, I'd probably regret not putting in one of those extendable pot filler faucets coming out of the wall behind the burners. Who wants to fill a 40 quart stock pot with liquid and have to move the pot? Finally, I think I'd also add a composting wastecan beneath the prep area counter that is accessed through a removable lid on the countertop itself. Vegetables get prepped, the lid removed, and the waste just pushed into a 6" hole into the can below and immediately out to the compost pile, like in this photo:

http://www.meticulum.com/compost_1.jpg

Pretty cool, eh?

Thanks for helping me think through all of this.

John

Mom5farmboys

01-04-2010, 03:21 AM

Travis:
Finally, I think I'd also add a composting wastecan beneath the prep area counter that is accessed through a removable lid on the countertop itself. Vegetables get prepped, the lid removed, and the waste just pushed into a 6" hole into the can below and immediately out to the compost pile, like in this
John

I like the idea of using a hole in the counter to slide waste, and scraps into, but make sure the can underneath will fit a container that is at least 5 gallons or more. Those scraps and peelings will add up quickly, especially if your doing high volume canning. You don't want to be emptying your can every 5 minutes.

NCLee

01-04-2010, 03:41 AM

John, measure your space dedicated to the burners. If it's 30" you may want to use a gas or electric cooktop instead. Remember you'll need to simmer your jar lids before adding them to the filled jars. And, you're likely to need hot water to add to jars, depending on what you're canning. A small sauce pan takes care of the lids. A waterbath canner will heat the jars and supply hot water, as need for other purposes. (Hotter than what you get at the sink.)

Burner 1 - pressure canner
Burner 2 - heating lids
Burner 3 - heating jars
Burner 4 - needed for a stockpot to use hot packing. (applesauce for ex.)

You'll still have the space under the cooktop to store cooking gear and such. It'll be too warm, while the cooktop is in use, to store foods there.

Pot filler alternative - Put an adapter on your faucet. Buy a foodgrade water hose (white hose available at most places that sell hoses or from camping equip suppliers). Cut it to length needed and use a repair kit to add a new female end. All sorts of sprayers and such you can use on the female end. I've made a couple of these. One in my shop for a double bowl laundry sink. The other in the outdoor kitchen. Even more handy than a built in pot filler, IMHO. Only take a minute to change out, as needed.

Consider putting in a 3 bowl kitchen sink. Mine is a life saver :) when I'm canning. It's 42 1/2" L x 22" D - fits in a standard countertop. Both big bowls can be full of produce, jars, etc. Then, the the small center bowl is perfect for hand washing, rinsing a utensil, or whatever is needed. Another plus is that the large bowls make clean up of canning equipment and stock pots a whole lot easier. The traditional double bowl SS sink that I had wasn't large enough to handle that equipment.

Oh..... one more, those large bowls make prepping food so much easier. I put a flexible cutting mat in mine and prep turkey for canning right in the sink. It's large enough to cut up that turkey without having to sanitize anything else following working with poultry. Makes washing big batches of greens, tomatoes, etc. easier, too.

I can put a cutting board over one side of the sink to gain counter space and still have a large and small bowl available. Or, I can put an adjustable sink top strainer over one bowl, when that's needed to rinse peas and beans after shelling.

Lee

Diavolicchio

01-04-2010, 01:53 PM

John, measure your space dedicated to the burners. If it's 30" you may want to use a gas or electric cooktop instead.

You'll still have the space under the cooktop to store cooking gear and such. It'll be too warm, while the cooktop is in use, to store foods there.

Pot filler alternative - Put an adapter on your faucet. Buy a foodgrade water hose (white hose available at most places that sell hoses or from camping equip suppliers). Cut it to length needed and use a repair kit to add a new female end. All sorts of sprayers and such you can use on the female end. I've made a couple of these. One in my shop for a double bowl laundry sink. The other in the outdoor kitchen. Even more handy than a built in pot filler, IMHO. Only take a minute to change out, as needed.

Consider putting in a 3 bowl kitchen sink. Mine is a life saver :) when I'm canning. The traditional double bowl SS sink that I had wasn't large enough to handle that equipment.

Lee,

Thanks for the ton of great advice.

I've decided, based upon your feedback and that of a couple others, to switch over to a cooktop with more burners (http://www.ajmadison.com/phpdocs/ajtest/item_image_browser.php?sku=EW36GC55G&AutoNumber=109864). Now I understand the benefit of it.

I've only got a 36" wide area for the sink, so the 3 bowl sink is out, but I did find a great two bowl sink (http://www.ajmadison.com/phpdocs/ajtest/item_image_browser.php?sku=DLRQ332212&AutoNumber=118516) that is over a foot deep and around 33" or 34" wide.

The suggestion about the alternative for the pot filler makes sense, but I've had my eye on one of those Grohe wall mounts (http://www.friendlyplumber.com/Images/grohe/glimages/glkitfaucet/potfiller_l.jpg) for awhile and just love the idea of it, even though it's not the most cost-effective solution.

My plan is to put in a U-shaped counter space, with the double sink at the bottom of the U, opposite the door, between the two longer galley counters. Cooktop centered on the counter to the left; prep area between the sink and the cooktop; and the counter to the right for cooling, labeling and packing, with storage beneath.

Bit by bit I'm starting to piece this all together. Your feedback has been really helpful.

John

AlchemyAcres

01-04-2010, 02:58 PM

The suggestion about the alternative for the pot filler makes sense, but I've had my eye on one of those Grohe wall mounts (http://www.friendlyplumber.com/Images/grohe/glimages/glkitfaucet/potfiller_l.jpg) for awhile and just love the idea of it, even though it's not the most cost-effective solution.

That's a clever idea and would be extremely handy for canning.
It' kinda like the Chinese restaurant wok wand faucets. I love that idea!

http://www.missionrs.com/228000.html

In my veggy and poultry/rabbit prep area I have a homemade foot pedal operated high pressure faucet that's very handy. It eliminates the need to reach for the valves all the time plus saves water and energy.

http://www.kitchengadgetry.com/kitchen/gadgets/fisher-3070-valve-floor-mount-single-pedal-polished-chrome-p-23276.html?sc=gbase

~Martin

Diavolicchio

01-04-2010, 03:00 PM

In my veggy and poultry/rabbit prep area I have a homemade foot pedal operated high pressure faucet that's very handy. It eliminates the need to reach for the valves all the time plus saves water and energy.

http://www.kitchengadgetry.com/kitchen/gadgets/fisher-3070-valve-floor-mount-single-pedal-polished-chrome-p-23276.html?sc=gbase

~Martin

I love the foot valve. Very cool. I'm gonna add it to my wish list.

Thanks for mentioning it.

John

bjacobson

01-04-2010, 06:19 PM

Travis

01-04-2010, 06:20 PM

Diavolicchio

01-04-2010, 09:54 PM

This is awesome, a bunch of guys designing a canning kitchen. My wife thinks I am the only guy in the world that does canning. I just wish I had a separate kitchen for it. I may put one in the basement someday.

There are a lot of guys into canning, BJacobson. Welcome to the club. :cool:

I'm guessing as well that once I get this next little house built and the canning kitchen finished, I'll have a number of people who originally thought the idea was overkill all wanting to use it instead of turning their own kitchen into a sauna in the middle of August.

How could anyone being into self-reliance and homesteading these days and NOT be into canning?

John

Diavolicchio

01-04-2010, 10:06 PM

Sounds like a good idea John I like the pot filler idea. Where the side cabinet meets the wall cabinets you will need a double hinged door and a kidney shaped lazy susan http://www.nextag.com/cabinet-corner-lazy-susan/search-html, will be the best way to utilize the corners.

Travis,

I grew up in a house with a lazy susan that we as kids used to abuse. We'd wait until it was fully stocked, and then spin the bejeezus out of it when my mother wasn't around, just to make everything fly off of it. My dear mother is probably STILL finding food behind it from decades ago.

I'm not real partial to them.

The solution I've been planning to use for 'blind corner cupboard' storage is one of these (http://www.hafele.com/us/products/5176.asp) (watch the video.) I'll have these both in the main kitchen as well as this little canning kitchen. Hafele makes many different sizes and shapes of these. You'll find a few different options they makes, along with corresponding videos by going here (http://www.hafele.com/us/products/blind-corner-pullout-base-corner-lemans-corner-magic-corner-pull-out.asp). You can also take a look at their whole catalog of storage solutions by going here (http://www.hafele.com/us/external/catalog/icatalog/16/).

I'm all about building a smaller home and then totally maximizing what you can do within that space. There are a ton of products on the market these days like the stuff made by Hafele that make this quite possible. Plus, when it comes to heating, cooling and cleaning a smaller home, it's that much easier and cost-efficient.

Why do people still build homes with rooms they use 2 to 3 weeks out of the year? They're paying to build the extra space, they've then got to clean it, heat it and possibly cool it. And yet it still ends up either being used just a few weeks a year for guests, or becomes more pack-rat storage for stuff they probably don't need. Is it really worth it?

By the way Travis, the 12" tile idea makes perfect sense. I want to be able to spray the floor down with a hose periodically and just have it all drain out. You know how messy guys get when they attempt to can, right? :sarcastic:

John

NCLee

01-05-2010, 12:47 AM

Lee, Thanks for the ton of great advice.

I've decided, based upon your feedback and that of a couple others, to switch over to a cooktop with more burners (http://www.ajmadison.com/phpdocs/ajtest/item_image_browser.php?sku=EW36GC55G&AutoNumber=109864). Now I understand the benefit of it.

I've only got a 36" wide area for the sink, so the 3 bowl sink is out, but I did find a great two bowl sink (http://www.ajmadison.com/phpdocs/ajtest/item_image_browser.php?sku=DLRQ332212&AutoNumber=118516) that is over a foot deep and around 33" or 34" wide.

The suggestion about the alternative for the pot filler makes sense, but I've had my eye on one of those Grohe wall mounts (http://www.friendlyplumber.com/Images/grohe/glimages/glkitfaucet/potfiller_l.jpg) for awhile and just love the idea of it, even though it's not the most cost-effective solution.

My plan is to put in a U-shaped counter space, with the double sink at the bottom of the U, opposite the door, between the two longer galley counters. Cooktop centered on the counter to the left; prep area between the sink and the cooktop; and the counter to the right for cooling, labeling and packing, with storage beneath.

Bit by bit I'm starting to piece this all together. Your feedback has been really helpful. John

John, I'm glad you've decided to use a cooktop, and one larger than 30", too. Later thought about the fact that you're going to use a larger canner than my 21 qt. Doubt that it, plus the other pots would fit on a 30".

BTW, you'll like that simmer burner for heating your lids. Doubt that you can use the high output burner for pressure canning. Reason why in a second...

Here's my stove. It's 2nd one on the page.
http://www.premierrange.com/rangeP36.htm

6 Sealed Top Burners: 1 @ 15,000 BTU, 1@ 12,000 BTU, 3@ 9,100 BTU, and 1 precise simmer burner 600 to 6,000 BTU

For a 21 qt canner, on this stove, I couldn't turn down the heat enough to hold pressure at 10/11 lbs with burners rated at 9,100 BTU and above. That is until I bought an adjustable pressure regulator that could be set for 11 lbs. Now, pressure holds steady on on of the 9,100 BTU burners. (BTW, while the simmer burner would work, it was just too slow. Took forever, it seemed to heat up to start exhausting the canner.)

Since your canner is larger, you may not encounter the problem that I did. Thought I'd mention it, just in case. And, to recommend that your first batch of canning be just jars filled with water and no lids, to learn how your cooktop will react with your canner.

Re: Sink. That's a nice one you've picked out. Will make almost everything you do easier with those deep flat bottom bowls. BTW, bet you can get a triple bowl in your space, if you'd like one. Simply put in the counter at the end of the U first. Then butt the 2 side ones to it, rather than putting in a 45 degree joint. That is if you aren't putting in pre-formed counter with backsplash. It should still work, even though you may get some overlap of the counters on either side. It'll be similar to what happens when corner sinks are put into tight places.

You're gonna like that pot filler! I looked at those, but with the other expenses when I remodeled my kitchen, that was one thing I left out. (sigh)

In closing, I like the 12" floor tiles for the counter, too. Far less grout joints to keep sealed. With cutting boards to protect your knives and towels to cushion your hot jars, they'll handle about anything else you can throw at them.

Lee

Diavolicchio

01-05-2010, 02:35 AM

Lee,

That's a great looking stove. I've never seen one configured quite like that with the doors on the front. It certainly looks like you've got the cooktop necessary to do all the canning you could want.

I may regret not going with a 3-bowl sink, but I just don't want to eat up any more work space on the counter than I already have. As it stands now, I'll have about 32" of free counter on either side of the cooktop, and I'd like to just keep that free and open. I limited myself to a 33" sink because I've got 36" between both long counters and I wanted the sink to be completely self-contained within that 36" area. I'll be using the Hafele LeMans Blind Corner Storage Systems (http://www.hafele.com/us/services/haefele-library/5176.asp) beneath the counters on either side of this sink, and a 42" sink would likely prohibit that. These Hafele systems should give me additional storage that otherwise would've required me to lengthen whole the room by another 18".

You mentioned that your stove has 6 Sealed Top Burners (1 @ 15,000 BTU, 1@ 12,000 BTU, 3@ 9,100 BTU, and 1 precise simmer burner 600 to 6,000 BTU ) and that I'd possibly need to be able to turn the heat down to a consistent low simmer depending on the side of the pressure cooker.

I just checked, and the burner configuration for the 5-top I'll be going with is: 1 @ 1200 to 5000, 2 @ 9500, 1 @ 14,000 and 1 @ 450 to 18,000. That powerful central burner seems like it should be able to handle about darn near anything, no?

Here's a better overview of the cooktop with better pics (http://www.ajmadison.com/phpdocs/ajtest/item_image_browser.php?sku=EW36GC55GS&AutoNumber=109927). I'm much happier with the solution than the original 2 burners.

It's going to be a great little canning kitchen, especially considering what all will be able fit comfortably into a 7' x 8' space! Thanks for nudging me to at least widen the original room the extra two feet. I think any of my friends who end up borrowing the space to do some canning themselves are going to be surprised just what all is in there. Now I just need a mini-fridge in there full of cold beer in there and I'm all set :)

John

NCLee

01-05-2010, 03:17 AM

Yes, John, with that heat range, sounds like that burner will do everythng you want it to do. The high end will be a big help when bringing either a waterbath or pressure canner up to temp quickly. Appears that the low end goes low enough to handle holding pressure nicely.

Another benefit is that high output sound like it's just about perfect for stir-fry cooking with a wok. So, you may find that you use your canning kitchen for more than canning. :)

Yes, that's the main reason why I bought that particular stove. Has the space and heat capacity to handle canning quite well. Also chose it because it has both electronic ignition and can be manually lit when the power is out.

When not canning, the 2 center burners have a castiron griddle sitting on them, almost full time. There's another one that came with the stove in that side door compartment. Haven't use it as it's a non-stick version. Prefer plain castiron. I use the griddle the way a short order cook uses a flat top. (Pancakes, scrambled eggs, fried eggs, cheese sandwiches, grilling thin pork chops, etc.) Mentioned that as it may be an option for you in one of your cooking areas.

I'm on dial-up, so didn't see the video on the storage system. With any of the systems, it's simply a matter of choosing what you believe will work best for you. For example, that's why I didn't put a turntable in the blind corner that I have. In my case I'd rather have the full space available to store things that are seldom used. Sure it's a pain to get to them, :) but they are only used maybe a couple of times of year. Between uses they have a place where they are out of my way.

An alternative to the triple sink is a couple of stacking plastic dishpans. They can come in handy when you have both bowls full of produce, for example. Just pull out one for hand washing. Or, set one in your sink, to act as a 3rd bowl. FWIW, I do this with the double bowl laundry sink I have in the shop. Sometimes all I need is a small dishpan, so why fill the large bowl?

Those dishpans will also do dual duty. Fill them with tomatoes, shelled peas, or snapped beans to be washed. Put the washed ones into another dishpan, if you need the sink.

Some of these things that I'm mentioning now will become automatic to you as you get into canning. Chances are that you won't use all of them, as your circumstances will be different from mine. You'll work out what's most efficient for you as you progress.

Lee