Ammo Recommendations

[Diavolicchio]

It looks like I'm about to be getting a new Marlin, specifically a lever action Model 1895 Cowboy Rifle (http://www.marlinfirearms.com/Firearms/Cowboy/1895Cowboy.asp), using 45/70 Gov't ammo.

I know nothing about the reputations of different makes of ammo, and was wondering what people's recommendations are on here for 45/70 Gov't specifically. I was shocked to discover a box of Grizzly 45/70 Gov't +P 405 Grain Punch is about $117. That's $5.85 a bullet!

Money aside, in what cases would someone use THIS AMMO (http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=413144) instead of THIS AMMO (http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=589208)?

What other brands should I be considering? Which 45-70 is the best bang for the buck (so to speak) ?


John

[rice paddy daddy]

Grizzly and Buffalo Bore are loaded to maximum limits. You would use this for dangerous game, like Alaskan brown bear, or African buffalo.
The Hornady Leverevolution is as steamlined as regular pointed ammo but safe to use in a lever gun. It stretches the range and gives a higher velocity than flat or round nosed ammo. So instead of 150-200 yard max range, you can go 250-300 yards.
I use lower priced stuff, right now on hand I have a box of Remington Corelocked 300 grain JHP (jacketed hollow point) and a box of Black Hills 405 grain lead flat nose. Either of these should run you about $35- $40 or so per 20 round box. They are more than adequate for deer, moose or elk.

[Diavolicchio]

Grizzly and Buffalo Bore are loaded to maximum limits. You would use this for dangerous game, like Alaskan brown bear, or African buffalo.
The Hornady Leverevolution is as steamlined as regular pointed ammo but safe to use in a lever gun. It stretches the range and gives a higher velocity than flat or round nosed ammo. So instead of 150-200 yard max range, you can go 250-300 yards.
I use lower priced stuff, right now on hand I have a box of Remington Corelocked 300 grain JHP (jacketed hollow point) and a box of Black Hills 405 grain lead flat nose. Either of these should run you about $35- $40 or so per 20 round box. They are more than adequate for deer, moose or elk.

RPD:

That's exactly the info I needed. I'll plan on using the Hornady LEVERevolution 325 gr as standard ammo for the deer problems I've got, but pick up a box of the Grizzly +P 405 gr Punch just to be able to see what this gun can do.

The squirrels in my yard don't stand a chance. :fie:


John

[Teg]

Might give this Cor-Bon Hunter ammo a try as well if you are experimenting. http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/59122-5.html

[Diavolicchio]

Might give this Cor-Bon Hunter ammo a try as well if you are experimenting. http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/59122-5.html

I appreciate the recommendation.

What do you know about this particular ammo? Have you used it yourself?


John

[Teg]

I appreciate the recommendation.

What do you know about this particular ammo? Have you used it yourself?


John

Haven't used this particular round but I've used the Cor-Bon pistol ammo and from that I can say they make a quality product, you get good penetration and expansion and the Cor-Bon design helps the bullet keep most of its mass, definitely more than a match for your average white tail. :)

[Diavolicchio]

Haven't used this particular round but I've used the Cor-Bon pistol ammo and from that I can say they make a quality product, you get good penetration and expansion and the Cor-Bon design helps the bullet keep most of its mass, definitely more than a match for your average white tail. :)

Teg,

I've added your recommendation to the list. Most likely I'll try a box or two. Thanks for the suggestion.


John

[kawalekm]

The squirrels in my yard don't stand a chance. :fie:


If you try shooting squirrels with a .45-70, that might just make them your best friends, because after the first shot you'll never want to shoot one again! Use your .45-70 on moose. Get a .22 rimfire for the squirrels.

[rice paddy daddy]

Some of the max loaded ammo comes with disclaimers warning against use in certain weapons, because they may blow up. If there's no warning, you should be ok. I think Marlins are strong enough, but if you were to put some Buffalo Bore into, say, a Trapdoor Springfield, oooops!
I use Cor Bon in some of my handguns, but their 45 Colt warns it's not for use in Colts or Colt clones. Likewise Buffalo Bore limits their 45 Colt to Ruger and Freedom Arms.

[Diavolicchio]

Some of the max loaded ammo comes with disclaimers warning against use in certain weapons, because they may blow up. If there's no warning, you should be ok. I think Marlins are strong enough, but if you were to put some Buffalo Bore into, say, a Trapdoor Springfield, oooops!

RPD:

Much of the ammo I've been looking at says it's made specifically to work with a Marlin 1895, so I feel comfortable knowing I shouldn't have any problems.

I've got a question though about grain vs. muzzle velocity vs. muzzle energy. In this chart below of Grizzly's different 45-70 Gov't ammo, in what instances would you use, say, their 350 grain with a 2,200 velocity instead of their 460 grain with an 1,800 velocity? Is it all about the distance the animal is from you? Or the size beast you're looking to take down? Or both?

And if you shot a molting chicken in its hindquarters at close range (say 5 feet) with a 405 grain Grizzly PUNCH, how far would you estimate the feathers would fly? :blink:


http://www.meticulum.com/Grizzly_Ammo.jpg


John

[gunsmoke]

The .45-70 is an excellent and very versitile cartridge, and the 1895 Marlin is a remarkably fine gun. You made a very wise, very cost effective choice.

If you choose to learn and equip yourself to handload you may find yourself hunting squirrels with your new rifle. Round-ball and "collar-button" bullet loads and even shot loads have been used in the .45-70 since its inception for foraging and in the case of the collar-buttons indoor gallery practice.

Bullet weight vs. Velocity all depends on what you're shooting at.

For example if you are hunting dangerous game, BROWN BEAR or the aforeMentioned cape buffalo, you need penetration, which means more bullet weight and sturdier bullet construction. The PUNCH bullets in the Grizzly or the hard-cast LBTs in Buffalo Bore are perfectly suited to smashing ball and socket joints on dangerous game (shoulders and hips which if you miss a nerve center with your first shot or can't get a clean nerve center shot is your 2nd priority target in dealing with dangerous game if the joints don't work they can't get to YOU)

Those same bullets and loads are completely adequate for smashing a large diesel engine block within 100 yards or so.

A lighter bullet loaded to the same pressure levels as the heavier bullet will have a higher muzzle velocity than the larger. If as in the case of the Hornady LeverRevolution the bullet is also aerodynamically efficient, the lighter, higher velocity bullet will have a flatter trajectory in flight than the slower heavier bullet but because of the difference in mass, the lighter bullet also sheds velocity and energy faster (GENERALLY SPEAKING!) Than the heavier bullet.

The bottom line is this, the LeverRevolution will be more than adequate for hunting of large non-dangerous game and even smaller agressive predators like Moutain Lion.

The Buffalo Bore or Grizzly is really highly specialized and is only useful if you are pursuing Grizzly, Brownies, Cape Buffalo or one of them big diesels.

[Diavolicchio]

Gunsmoke:

What a terrific response. It makes perfect sense now. Thanks for taking the time to spell it out for me. I'm glad I'm going with an intelligent choice for a rifle, too.

Now about that molting chicken. . .


John

[gunsmoke]

Just a note about the dramatic cost difference cited in your original post: The PUNCH bullet is made by hand and each is made by turning on a lathe. They are made for one thing PENETRATION.

Each PUNCH also has a very small hollow point (really just a dimple) drilled in the nose so they do not qualify as a "SOLID" bullet which many states prohibit the use of when hunting game animals. This dimple is not designed nor does it cause expansion of the bullet.

[Diavolicchio]

Just a note about the dramatic cost difference cited in your original post: The PUNCH bullet is made by hand and each is made by turning on a lathe. They are made for one thing PENETRATION.

Each PUNCH also has a very small hollow point (really just a dimple) drilled in the nose so they do not qualify as a "SOLID" bullet which many states prohibit the use of when hunting game animals. This dimple is not designed nor does it cause expansion of the bullet.

That's fascinating, actually. And I can't imagine why I'd ever need them, unless I was out shooting diesel engine blocks.

Thanks for the clarification.


John

[rice paddy daddy]

Just don't forget - when yer huntin' squirrels, make sure you hit 'em betwen the eyes 'cause they charge when wounded.:D
Seriously, gunsmoke gave some solid info there.
The only reason I have a 45/70 is "just because." And it's a NEF Handi Rifle single shot because of the cost factor. I don't really hunt. Having been the hunted changed my outlook on life a tad.:)

[hunter63]

Gunsmoke:

What a terrific response. It makes perfect sense now. Thanks for taking the time to spell it out for me. I'm glad I'm going with an intelligent choice for a rifle, too.

Now about that molting chicken. . .


John

OK, let me get this straight, Big honking max go faster, rhino loads, complain about the price..........Squirrels and chickens?
Does your mama know what your up to?

[gunsmoke]

I don't know about anyone else but when stuck with a molting chicken I usually reach for some Comp B and DET cord a little is good, more is better.........

[Diavolicchio]

I don't know about anyone else but when stuck with a molting chicken I usually reach for some Comp B and DET cord a little is good, more is better.........

Comp B? You're probably finding feathers on the other side of town . . .


John

[gunsmoke]

Just don't forget - when yer huntin' squirrels, make sure you hit 'em betwen the eyes 'cause they charge when wounded.:D
Seriously, gunsmoke gave some solid info there.
The only reason I have a 45/70 is "just because." And it's a NEF Handi Rifle single shot because of the cost factor. I don't really hunt. Having been the hunted changed my outlook on life a tad.:)

I have a 1972 production early 1895 with Ballard Rifling. Pound for pound it is a fast handling package of power.

If I lived in Alaska I wouldn't leave home without it. If you have ever seen the photos of the World's largest Grizzly Sow taken by an off-duty Alaska Wildlife Agent (shot IIRC 11 times with a 7mm Rem Mag, he was Caribou hunting) and the very gaunt Grizzly Sow shot a few weeks ago by a guy strolling in his neighborhood, fortunately armed with a Redhawk .454 (reportedly loaded with PUNCH bullets) which he emptied into her and still had to sidestep her charge before she fell beyond his first standing position. According to his account he saw and heard nothing until she burst out of the brush about 15 feet across the road from him and he says he never aimed just point shot all six rounds.

If you're anywhere around big bears its a necessity, if not it is still a very versitile round which can be loaded up or down for a broad range of uses.

The Remington factory 300 gr hollow point is pretty enemic, loaded for Trapdoor Springfield use, is a stone-dead deer killer out to 150 yards and is mild enough for a small woman or a large kid to use effectively. You could shoot that particular load all day every day never bruise your shoulder never empty your freezer and never starin the Rifle in the least.

[gunsmoke]

Comp B? You're probably finding feathers on the other side of town . . .


John

Its just a matter of saving valuable time. A Kilo block of B wrapped tightly to the chicken with Det cord eliminates the plucking, gutting, cooking, eating and well the "final elimination" of the remnants. Good for the environment too no TP!

Sheryl Crow would be so proud of me! (I wonder if she is free this evening she could come over and I could tell her all about it, no on second thought she'd probably get pissed off seeing all those AKs I bought from WalSmart!)

[Diavolicchio]

Its just a matter of saving valuable time. A Kilo block of B wrapped tightly to the chicken with Det cord eliminates the plucking, gutting, cooking, eating and well the "final elimination" of the remnants. Good for the environment too no TP!

That's so damn funny, man. You are not WELL. :lol: ROFL!


John