gas drilling refugees [Archive]

yenta

06-05-2009, 09:09 AM

We are looking for relocation suggestions. Our newly created homestead (of five years) looks to become the next "Love Canal".

Gas drilling had begun in NE PA. It is only a matter of time before the contamination will find it ways into our soil and water thereby poisoning our crops, our dairy goats and naturally us.

Our interests:
- state with limited zoning, etc. restrictions
- state which still offers as many of our constitutional freedoms as possible
- roughly a day's drive from PA . . . for limited stress in transporting our goat herd

I appreciate any suggestions fellow homesteaders can offer. It sickens me to leave this homestead given all the sweat that went into creating it. I realize that there is no "comtamination - free" land in modern times. However, is there somewhere safer to homestead?

Thank you.

cinok

06-05-2009, 04:21 PM

Sounds like you might be panicking a little quick. We live in OK and it is not unusual to have rigs in the middle of pasture. Do you own the mineral rights to your property.

Anon001

06-05-2009, 04:55 PM

Yenta,

Gas and oil drilling do not contaminate the water or the rivers. *I was raised in West Texas with oil and there is gas in the area where I live now... *I've never seen any contamination.

The ground water and soils are tested on a regular basis and recorded with the state. *

I think you're over-reacting and if you own mineral rights, you will have royalties. *I would guess in your part of the country the gas is methane which is in the coal ? *If that is true and if you own all the mineral rights, you could easily see $1,000 to $2,000 per month in royalties....

indyguy

06-06-2009, 05:37 AM

the fracking of oil and gas wells has been going on since the 1860s with nitro and I saw my 1st well fracked hydraulicaly in the early 70s.

I lived in a area that was drilled to death and our farm was never affected nor was anyone elses I know of.

The free gas was great as was the check every month.

Whar reason have you to believe your homestead is the next Love Canal because of drilling?

Catalpa

06-08-2009, 03:51 PM

yenta, I can sympathize with your desire to move. I wouldn't want to live around gas or oil wells either, and contrary to other's experiences, I have seen the results when this drilling is done without due care - and it isn't always the oil, it's often the brine that causes contamination of neighboring wells. Then's there's that horrible stench from the flame stacks. I've never understood that, if the gas is flammable enough to be always burning on the stacks and stinking up the neighborhood, why can't they capture that and make a commodity of it, instead of wasting it?

As far as I know, PA is about a day's drive from MI. There's lots of great deals on real estate around here, due to the wretched economy. Our climate is great for farming, and depending on what county you choose, zoning laws can be almost non-existent. Of course, finding a job will be a problem....

Whatever you choose, good luck to you!

johnjmw

06-09-2009, 03:32 AM

The Oil Company that approached me about drilling said they are not allowed to burn off the gases any more. The natural gas pressure has to be let off to get the oil out of most wells. Now it is required to be captured and piped away. There is also required to be a person from, Oh shaving cream, was it the EPA or DNR that has a person on hand and inspecting the drilling. I don't know if these rules are just for Ohio or nationally.

John

Anon001

06-09-2009, 04:38 AM

John & Catalpa,
Those rules are pretty much standard anywhere. *Most of the time today, you can't even tell there is a gas well. *About all you will see above ground, is what looks like a valve on a pipe that comes above ground and then curves back below ground in a very small spot. *There is not damage to the ground water from the brine. * This so called brine is salt water that is already below ground and with today's techniques, the EPA does not allow contamination. *If they can't use non contamination techniques, the don't drill. *

The days of burning off gas are gone.

Yenta,
You have nothing to worry about from gas wells. There is no contamination and if you own the mineral rights, you get a nice income.

indyguy

06-09-2009, 07:20 AM

In the area of Ohio where I grew up not once did I ever see them burning off the gas..... it all went into the pipeline.

There was a huge compressor station in the area the pump the gas into a 12in line that crossed the state.

johnjmw

06-10-2009, 03:35 AM

Thanks for the clarification Paul. I'm still on the fence. I'd love the income, but don't want the area stripped of trees to get the well in. I thought I was told to drill they needed about half a football field cleared for the equipment, supplies and the trucks including a water tanker or two.
John

Anon001

06-10-2009, 04:53 AM

John,

The gas wells they put in here, didn't go into the trees. They made a gravel "lane".... not much more than just two tracks. They put in gates, etc. They kept 2 semi truck sized water containers at the road. They only had about a 100ft by 100ft area by the well head. Once the wells were drilled and in place, they reseeded grass, or whatever was there. Once it was said and done, the wells only took up a space of maybe just few square feet. Today, they minimize damage above and below ground. The gas wells in this area actually benefited the landowners in more ways than just royalties.

I was raised around oil and gas and I've seen firsthand how things are now compared to 30 years ago. It is a different world today.

There was one exception. My best friend had a gas well put in on a place of his. It is in the trees. That well was put in sometime in the late 1980's. Today, you would never know they've been there. The well head takes up maybe 100 square feet at the most and there is no equipment of any kind. Once the well is in, there is no equipment, water tanks, etc... just the well head. His paid about $1800 per month until it ran dry. Now it is leased out for gas storage each year. The pipeline pumps gas into the caverns to store the gas when they buy it cheap and then pull from those reserves in the winter. However, he is 35 miles from me and the type of gas he had was different than where I'm at. Where I'm at, it is a methane mixed in with the coal bed.

cinok

06-10-2009, 10:21 AM

Somehow i dont think Yenta good the answers she wanted. Since she hasnt responded to anyones suggestions.

Anon001

06-10-2009, 03:09 PM

I think you're right... and she hasn't posted since she posted this five days ago.

MissouriFree

06-10-2009, 03:50 PM

Our interests:
- state with limited zoning, etc. restrictions
- state which still offers as many of our constitutional freedoms as possible
- roughly a day's drive from PA . . . for limited stress in transporting our goat herd

I appreciate any suggestions fellow homesteaders can
Thank you.

Yenta I know absolutely nothing about drilling for gas except that I would not trust em.

Missouri is the state that fits everything you ask for .

mo

Catalpa

06-10-2009, 05:07 PM

I'm not bashing you, Paul, .....but..... ;)

How can you say the days of burning the stacks are gone? I drive past them all the time! Wisner, Bay City, Oil City, Clare, they're all still burning.

And I have to say I don't hold your level of trust in the EPA. And without going into details, I am in a position to know. There's what the agency says; and then there's what the agency does. Oversight of drilling operations is not 100%....and is often the case when it's money vs. the environment or public health, money wins. I've personally seen sloppy drilling practices and failure to properly cap old wells create nasty contamination problems.

Yes the brine (salt water) is naturally occurring in the rock formations; in my area it is most often the Marshall Sandstone. There's some wells not far from me that they actually use as a source of brine for putting on the gravel roads. The problems arise when drillers punch through formations and allow one aquifer to contaminate another, either by not properly grouting the wells, or by not properly closing old wells.

I will agree that the newer wells, once done, do not take up much room, and if surrounded by trees, aren't such an eyesore. There's a new exploratory well going in not too far away, and they have bulldozed no less than five acres and completely ruined the soil. They've dug an enormous pit a hundred yards from the well, literally so deep that the earth mover disappears down into it.

So hey, I'm not trying to bust your chops, you know I love you, but things here in Michigan are a lot different from what you see. Just wanted to clairfy. ;D

indyguy

06-10-2009, 05:41 PM

everyone wants cheap energy and wants the USA to develope more of its reserves but has a dont do it in my back yard. mentality....... ::)

Anon001

06-11-2009, 03:58 AM

Catalpa, I have no idea what's going on with your area. But I know that where I was raised in Texas and where I now live, you don't see any of that and you don't find the big deep pits or the burning stacks. I've not seen a burning stack on (new) wells in ages. Maybe the ones they still use are "grandfathered" in somehow. But I know that in this part of the country and in West Texas things aren't like that any longer.

Indy, you are so right. People complain and gripe about the price of oil and gas but they want us to stay dependent on other countries (that hate the US) for their oil and gas because they trust them more than their own country, I guess. I would think people would welcome the oil and gas exploration for our own national security and our own petroleum supplies. We have to face the fact that we can never produce enough solar and wind power for the US, but like you say, they don't want it here.

AlchemyAcres

06-25-2009, 07:37 PM

Since she hasnt responded to anyones suggestions.

Given all the undue criticism, who can blame her??

~Martin

velojym

12-08-2009, 06:55 PM

The worst oil-related water issues we've had was when I was a kid. We lived for a short time in Denver City, TX, and the city (in all its infinite bureaucratic wisdom) used old oil pipe to carry drinking water.
It tasted nasty, and all our underwear turned yellow.

AlchemyAcres

12-08-2009, 07:40 PM

They're making me nervous!

They're poking holes all over the place here! 12 holes (big holes) within 1000 feet of my property line.

There has been some contamination in adjacent counties!!!

~Martin

southernchick

12-09-2009, 04:31 AM

I have a natural gas well on my newly inherited homestead. Doesn't bother me a bit and the monthly check will be quite nice I am sure (once the lawyers finish the paperwork of course).

I lived there back 14 years ago when the well was first drilled. Never a problem for the animals that graze or the gardens my uncle and late father tended.

neparose

12-09-2009, 09:32 AM

I live in N.E Pa. We are in the middle of a huge gas drilling boom here. Just for whats its worth, to anyone whos interested, you can check out whats happening in the town of Dimmock, in Susquehanna county. The local paper called the New Age Examiner has been covering an ongoing situation concerning a familys drinking water well that blew up in a methane gas explosion last january. It was definitly caused by the gas drilling. The company has as yet to drill them a new well and has been bringing them water by tanker truck. The water that comes from the faucet can be lit on fire. The drilling company had a spill at the drilling site so the town had a meeting with concerned citizens. While the meeting was taking place, another spill occured at the site. I dont know all the details, but only one drilling company seems to be causing problems here. The rest SEEM to be operating in a responsible manner..... There are several different outfits here. I can totally understand anyones apprehension about having to live in a "boom" area.

AlchemyAcres

12-09-2009, 10:15 AM

12-09-2009, 11:55 AM

I had property and a home in Alaska. Over the 25 years i lived there, my neighbor wanted to drill a well. My view was, "if" i was the one who wanted to drill, i wouldn't want him to try and stop me, so i didn't bother him either.

They drilled a well, (LESS than 1,000' away from me) and nothing changed, not my well or anything else. There was another well about 1/2 mile away, and that didn't seem to bother anyone either, at least no one near it ever complained about it.

My guess is, you either get a good driller or you don't.

DM

AlchemyAcres

12-09-2009, 12:08 PM

This is a lot different than a shallow well.
These wells are, in this area, at least a mile deep and and then drilled several thousand feet horizontally....the average cost to completion is $4 million per well.
The problem with ground water contamination happens when the casing, for whatever reason, fails. Methane at extremely high pressure and possibly residue chemicals from fracturing and radioactive residuals from the targeted shale then seep up into ground water.

~Martin

nhlivefreeordie

12-09-2009, 04:46 PM

WE are over the huge Natural Gas reserve, two years ago, lots of mountainsides scarred with pipeline work, and many, many wells went in. You can hardly tell that they were here now, the well heads totally blend in to the surroundings. It isn't an eyesore. The guys that were here in this area, were professionals all the way. I trust them, they did great work.

AlchemyAcres

12-09-2009, 05:02 PM

I've been screwed by them big time!
Friends and neighbors too!
I don't trust any of them!

~Martin

nhlivefreeordie

12-09-2009, 05:13 PM

I've been screwed by them big time!
Friends and neighbors too!
I don't trust any of them!

~Martin

Sorry you got screwed by them, that really sucks. The folks in this area are happy as far as I can tell, and I hunt shrooms on a lot of the farms that and land that the drilling company came through, they all seemed very happy this past year. I don't recall seeing that company name here, I knew what it was two years ago, but it has been a while since they left, can't remember their name but it wasn't Cabot. I believe they were from Minnesota.

AlchemyAcres

12-09-2009, 05:18 PM

Sorry you got screwed by them, that really sucks. The folks in this area are happy as far as I can tell, and I hunt shrooms on a lot of the farms that and land that the drilling company came through, they all seemed very happy this past year. I don't recall seeing that company name here, I knew what it was two years ago, but it has been a while since they left, can't remember their name but it wasn't Cabot. I believe they were from Minnesota.

Things have changed a lot in a couple years, there are dozens, maybe hundreds, of companies involved.
Since it was discovered that there was a proven way to extract marketable gas from the Marcellus shale in huge amounts, there's been a mad dash to lock up as much land as possible, unfortunately, most of the gas companies are being extremely sloppy. It's near prime territory here. There's BILLIONS of dollars at stake!!! It's sad what human greed can do!!!!

~Martin

AlchemyAcres

12-09-2009, 05:29 PM

I meant to add:
The greed doesn't stop with the gas companies.
There are others, both locally and nationally who have entered the picture to take advantage.
Including but not limited to, scaring old folks (and anyone who's in need or gullible) to get them to sign away their mineral rights or split their royalties etc. etc.

~Martin

nhlivefreeordie

12-09-2009, 05:34 PM

I believe a couple counties here got together and offered free advice to folks, and provided legal advice so as to protect the residents. There was a big to do about it right before they started drilling, like I said, these people were real happy, as long as the aquifers stay clear, all is well.

ArmySGT.

12-11-2009, 06:03 PM

Somehow i dont think Yenta good the answers she wanted. Since she hasnt responded to anyones suggestions.

I think you're right... and she hasn't posted since she posted this five days ago.

Given all the undue criticism, who can blame her??

~Martin

Personally I think you boys have been had by a Left Wing Agent Provocateur from an Ecoterrorist organization. Probably one opposed to drilling in PA and trying (unsuccessfully) to stir up opposition with propaganda.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Yenta

AlchemyAcres

12-26-2009, 09:11 PM

.....as long as the aquifers stay clear, all is well.

There's much more to it.

A little over a year and a half into this the issue of the "Haves and Have nots" has started to rear it's ugly head.

For some it's like winning the lottery....I have one neighbor who got nearly half a million dollars for a signing bonus...and some are set to average $300 per acre per month in royalties, even with the low price of natural gas.

I'm afraid it will ruin this area forever!

~Martin :(

nhlivefreeordie

12-27-2009, 05:12 AM

Those kinds of figures are what I was hearing from farmers around here, and like I said, they all seemed happy about it. I share your concerns, not about the drilling, and that fact that it can be done responsibly, but that folks will have to remain vigilant to make sure it is always done right, and continues to be right.