Oh give me Land, lots of Land...

[manoucherie]

My husband and I are ready to buy land! But in going around and looking at properties for sale in Western Washington, we have two observations:

First, we don't know anything about buying land. ::) I've read books, and we know something about septic systems and roads and electricity and all of that, but most of the land we could afford is forested, and we just don't have an idea of how to clear it and start the large garden/ pasture of our dreams. It seems daunting, even though we are pretty motivated. I need better information about how to look at and buy land and compare the costs involved in prepping "raw" land. Advice??

Second, the price of land in the countryside seems to be going down much slower than, say, houses in the suburbs. The house we sold lost 35% of its "value" last year (again, in Western Washington. We feel lucky that it sold at all). But a 5 acre plot of land in the boonies thats been on the market for a year isn't priced lower. Any insight?

As always, thanks for replying.

[manoucherie]

Oh, and we do not have very much money. Just enough, maybe...

[jighead]

We've been looking for a homestead for over a year. I have a friend who is a realtor and he doesn't mind taking us all over the county to look at places he knows we're not going to make an offer on. Raw land is tough, we've looked at a couple parcels that are corn field, and when we figure in the fencing, coaching to pasture, trees, house, outbuildings, and livestock that we want, the cost and time lines goes beyond what we want. Ideally, we are looking for a handyman special farmette with an outbuilding or two, some pasture and some woods, preferably some fencing, and either no house or a house crappy enough to keep the cost down. The crappier the house, the more we'll be motivated to build.

[manoucherie]

Where are you looking? In W. Washington if there is so much as a trailer its out of our price range, it seems, but the prices seem very high to me. We are thinking of looking elsewhere.

We want to live close enough to a town to get work, so its tough. Fencing is expensive, and building a place does take so much time. I've read 1001 "Build your own beautiful house for less than..." articles and books, but I assume its both more money and more time than anyone says up front. We are going for a double wide to start with.

[Native87]

The land that you are looking at,you said had trees. Are they worth selling for logs or good enough to have milled for your own lumber? For heaven sake though, if you get someone to log it, make sure they do a CLEAN job of it and not tear the place all to hell and leave you with stumps and limbs laying everywhere. Just a thought. Good Luck Always. Terry

[cabinman]

Native87 made the point I was going to add. *As soon as you mentioned forested, getting a timber broker in there to see what value your trees have. *Depending on the property, you may be able to earn enough by selling off some timber to offset some of your sitework.

In my case I bought my property from a logger and I was able to turn his access road into my driveway and his log landing made for a nice cleared, open area for gardening. *Right there I saved close to $20,000. *

As the point was made though, logging can leave a mess. *Stumps are a lot of work to remove. *Tops can be made into firewood, of course that depends onthe type of trees you have. *I'm inthe northeast and have a mixed hardwood forest. *Very different from what you would have in the northwest.

You may want to look into a used tractor with backhoe if you end up with that type of property. *It will save a lot of back breaking manual labor and move things along a lot faster.

Sounds like you may still want to do some more research.

[jighead]

We're looking in two markets: central PA (we know the market for land and for the products we could sell from that land but not much help with the kids) and southcentral PA (the inlaws are there and could help with the kids, but we don't know the markets as well).

Both of these rural markets did not balloon severely and therefore are not crashing. Large chunks of land are sitting for a loooong time though, which plays to our advantage. The seller may have priced that land a year or two ago, and may take an offer well below the asking price now that things are slowing down. Developers in these areas don't have the money to swoop in and develop farm land the way they have been for the past decade.

We watch the real estate ads for these markets daily, and we go look at every parcel that may have some of the features we want, regardless of price. This exercise has helped us hone the list of things that are really important to us, and what features we are willing to put the elbow grease into. It also gives us a feel for what features drive price up or down in those markets and what the "neighborhoods" are like. We also tell everyone we know that we are looking and what we are planning to do, especially our farmer friends.

[walls0stone]

Pa is no place to buyland now. No one will sell with all the gas come'n on.

with all the gas men come'n I know land lords who are try'n to get rid of the low class wellfair tennants to get in real working men who will pay $30 a night for just a bedroom.

Tioga COunty is implamenting new laws to prevent any development at all. No land owner will be able sell less than 20 + acres.

[seriessearcher]

Advice on buying anything.

My last two houses I low balled them so much on the offer my real estate agent was almost embarrassed.

To their surprise the seller countered and we got a much better price than expected.

Owners of land or a house that has not had an offer will look long and hard at a solid offer even if it is not what they are asking. Trust me you will be surprised.

I would take 40% or more off as the starting bid. (if not more) All they can say is no.

The suggestion on timber is spot on. My best friends dad paid for his 2nd parcel of land for his farm by having a timber company come clear out spots. He wanted them clear anyway for the cattle.

Good luck on the search.

[manoucherie]

Thanks for all the great responses.

I don't think the lumber would sell for much, but I honestly have assumed that without researching it. Most of the sites have been logged and have mostly Red Alder and a handful of small fir, big enough to be a pain to remove but not good for much else besides firewood. I'll do more research, though. Too bad there is no market for the acres of blackberries...

We are trying to get some grit to really negotiate well when we buy land. We have some real advantages and there is a lot of land sitting because the developers are out of the picture and retiree's aren't buying to build vacation houses.

We decided to rent for a few months and really look. All the advice I've gotten says the best way to learn is to keep looking and looking...

[marnee]

I don't have much encouragement to give, but our land we bought (yeah, land... a whole 6/10 of an acre... but it's something!) was just our house on it's foundation, an old foundation that didn't turn out right that was supposed to be for a 2 car garage, and a ton of rocks, weeds, and dirt. We bought the house a little over a year ago and still have our rocks, dirt, and weeds. We've been putting off doing anything with the yard, because, honestly, we don't have enough money to hire a professional to come in and do everything, and we have no idea what steps we'd need to take to put down grass. We know enough to get a garden in the old foundation this spring, which is awesome, though.

Here's about half of our property (the other half is the house and what's behind it) before the monstrous weeds started to take over last spring.
http://s276.photobucket.com/albums/kk13/marneejt/?action=view&current=S5000488.jpg

[manoucherie]

Thats some tough land, but it looks bigger than 6/10 of an acre sounds. You would have to get some machinery in there to un-compact the soil, and I wonder if someone wouldn't give you a fair or good price to do that because its a small property. If its taken care of you should only have to do it once. and it can be done! In the mean time a few chickens could start giving you manure. We've seen a few plots like that and they are a good price, but a lot of work. Good Luck and happy gardening.

[johnjmw]

I don't know what kind of local prices youare looking at but I was just reading a local paper from South Eastern Ohio. Raw land, usually mixed timbered and farm land, seems to be selling for $2,000/acre with occasional prices of $1,000/ acre. Occasionally there are some great deals popping up. One, a number of years ago, 125 acres with a few houses, several lakes/ponds with trails through out sold for $95,000. I cried when I saw that deal. I wanted to check it out so bad but my wife put her foot down and I could not find anyone who wanted to go in on it with me. The timber could have been thinned and paid most of the cost of the purchase.

[cmdan]

Here is a site you might check. The do list some lower priced areas and you can pick just land if you want.

http://www.redfin.com

Good luck

[Anon001]

Here in NE Kansas, land is still holding its own in price. Land that is is mixed pasture/timber is bringing anywhere from $1,000 to $2,000 per acre. The more acres, the cheaper it gets per acre.

When I bought mine, I bought a camping trailer and lived in it for 4 winters. I dismantled two barns for lumber and bought all my windows at farm auctions. My house 24 x 24 cost me less than $5,000 and that includes my small solar system.

I would stay away from mobile homes because the mobile home doesn't normally appreciate in value. Just like a car, it loses value from the day it is set on your property. Buy a camping trailer or do something else while you explore housing options.

By the way, were I am in KS it is not flat but is more like Iowa and MIssouri with hills, creeks, rivers, timber, etc.

Also, I had a posting that the moderators moved. Basically, I bought 40 acres this summer but it is too far from the house and I want to sell it and buy more ground closer to home. This 40 is 22 miles from home. I don't know if this is of interest to you but, you might take a look.

http://www.backwoodshome.com/forum/yabb/forum.pl?board=gen-memberbusiness;action=display;num=1232635020

I will also add that I am not a realtor, speculator or anything... I just have an offer if someone is interested....and it would be nice to have likeminded people a little closer! LOL

Good luck to you,
PaulNKS

[manoucherie]

I saw that posting! My husband is finishing a degree in Fisheries Science so we will probably stay on the west coast where there is more fish raising. You can raise fish anywhere, though, and we've often thought that our insistance on being close to the coast means we will be stuck with more expensive prices. Nothing here is 1000/ acre unless you cross the moutains to eastern Washington and Oregon, and even then its pricey.

We've thought many times about building a house, and my husband and I are able to live rough for a long time, but my mother will be with us and she is disabled. We will need a level of comfort like washers and a bit of space. The good news is we have seen used trailers and mobile homes for pretty cheap or even free, and we could work with that while we build something more appropriate.

Good luck selling that plot!

[Anon001]

that would be great if you could get one free or almost free....

Good luck to you... I hope we start seeing photos soon of a new place and a new homestead!
Paul