Starting a community

[MorikoHa]

We have a wonderful community of very good friends who share the same ideal we do in self sufficient living. It often comes up that if DH and I started a small farm/homestead, that they would follow. The interests we share range from wool spinning, sewing, cooking, canning, animal husbandry, building structures, horticulture and all the things that brought us close together in the first place.
I know that we, DH and I, would have to start small and alone at first, with 5 acres and each other with friends who have the desire coming out to help. If that all works out then more talks about a community.

What do you think?

[kawalekm]

Hello Moriko
Five acres isn't enough for a community. Personally, I don't think 5 acres is enough for one single family. It depends on what you want to do with it. If all you want is a personal garden, 1 acre is huge. On the other hand, if you want to cut your own wood to keep you warm in the winter, 5 acres of trees won't be enough to produce wood sustainably. Same with animals. You can't keep a goat on a 1 acre lot and expect it to be anything but bare dirt.

Land is not like the memory chips in your computer, where you just add more when you decide you need more. Land purchases are few and far between and it's very unlikely that you can expand by buying an adjacent parcel later. Buy the largest property available in the range you are looking for.

If you want a garden, an orchard, a woodlot, and pastures for cows or horses then you are looking at 20-40 acre parcels, leaning towards 40. We ourselves have 40 acres, and in some aspects (wood production and grazing) that is small.

About your commune idea, I'm not really in favor of it. If that is what you really want, I'd suggest you read up on the histories of other communes that were created. Pay attention to the authority structure and how people are motivated to get work done. If you don't think that is important, then stop right now!

Another critical factor is how your commune would interact with neighbors. Rural people are conservative in nature and the word "commune" will raise hackles. Take this seriously! After we bought our property we found out about a gay couple that had bought land about 2 miles from us years ago. They had the plan to develop their land into a "Gay Ranch". They were found both shot dead in their car on the road leading up to their property.
Michael

[ktlove]

Personally,
I don’t like the word commune, if I were going to do this I would like to be taken seriously and you will see by replies to this topic here or elsewhere many will not take a liking to the word commune, sort of reminds me of communism. I myself am American and we are taught that hard work yields reward, I do believe we are all equals but I do not want a coat-tail cruiser to come out ahead due to my hard work and diligence.
I do however like the word community. A community of friends and family, like minded individuals, and this is something I have thought of myself 100 times or more.

The biggest hiccup you will find is going to be zoning. Where will you find a parcel big enough to accommodate all your needs and desires that will allow you to pull this off successfully?
And once you think you have found it:
There may be a problem with shared housing for example; I lived in a single family house with 8 girls and 3 guys when I was younger. We were not allowed to have 9 girls that were not family, as it was considered under some old law a brothel. We were not brothel just like kids who wanted to keep the rent as low as possible.
You may find trouble building multiple houses on one parcel, perhaps they will consider it tract housing, and you will want it to be zoned Residential or Agricultural, right? So you can have livestock and such. An apartment style home won’t pass the zoning on agricultural zoned land, unless you can wave some money under the noses of the pencil pushing, bureaucratic red tape dispensers.

I figured just this, subdivided adjoining lots. You can find them available already or pay to further divide them. Read the fine print on the land covenants, as it may say no residence under 600 square feet, or no more than one dwelling per lot.
I would buy the largest parcel available for the common house, common land, the pond, barn, workshop, and gardens, then the neighboring parcels for potential expansion when desired.

And as the above poster stated, you would have to watch where you were putting this place, the word commune may be as awful to some as the word gay!!! Oh no!

This is just my two cents, I would love personally to be able to pull this off, but the problem for me is money. Where could I find the land to meet my needs yet be able to afford it?
Maybe each of you buying these parcels and putting them under a common named trust? Just thinking outloud.
Keep us updated.

[MorikoHa]

Thank you guys for your input. I've always hated the term "commune" as well, but other than community - which is more appropriate - I wasn't sure what else to call it. I never meant to be off putting.
I wasn't talking about my husband and I starting out with 5 acres and adding people - but rather us starting out on 5 acres by ourselves - our friends could come or go with work as they pleased. That way they could get a better idea of what it takes and my husband and I wouldn't be left high and dry with more land and work then we could deal with.
We want to start with 5 acres, a garden, and chickens, then adding rabbits and honeybees - that is the plan for just us.We aren't interested in cows or horses really.
A woodlot, though nearly worth its weight in gold, isn't so necessary as we will be staying close to our current area in N.CA. My husband loves his type of work, (business communications and management) which requires a bit of big city within an easy distance.
Our community wants the same, and since our house is "that house" where everyone always is - it would almost be inevitable that "the two, (3 now that I'm pregnant) of us" would always have open willing hands eager to assist.
Our friends and family have always been there, overwhelmingly so when we were at our lowest. Not to mention the fight to the death to claim who gets to be godparents to the baby.

These goals are years off, but I am constantly striving to find ways to pay off our debts and save our pennies to our first 5 acres. It just seems that the self-sufficient living plan my husband and I have keeps growing in interest and our anxious friends wanting to do something, with all of us, together.
I'm happy and blessed either way.

Michael - that is horrifying that those people were killed, but it was also a might foolish of them to not know enough about the community and the response it would have. Their death is tragic and inexcusable - and it could have been avoided. I really appreciate you sharing your story with me.

Thank you both for your input! I just wanted to get the thoughts out there to someone beyond ourselves who has more experience on their own and who has seen "communities" rise and fall.

[kawalekm]

Hi Moriko
Since you're also in California I thought you might like this picture of our place.
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r55/kawalekm/Goingupthehill.jpg

First, congratulations on your little one. I can't think of a better place to raise a child then in a quiet country place. I think it's good that you want to start with chickens and honeybees, and I can recommend about a 100 different trees to plant on your property.

I would though still try to persuade you to try to find more than just 5 acres. When we were first shopping for our land, we were looking for 10-20 acres. All properties that size within hundreds of miles of us had something wrong with them. Either no water, so rocky you couldn't see the ground, or so steep you had to hold on to a tree to keep from falling. When we first saw the 40 acre place we finally bought, it was far and away the very best property we saw.

Here are a few more advantages of getting a larger place. From our cabin, we can turn in any direction and not see a single sign of civilization! Our nearest neighbor is about 2000 feet away, and we'd never know they were there if they didn't drive up to the fence to say hello. On five acres, your nearest neighbor is likely to be just 200 feet away.

Our cabin is 800 feet in from the front gate
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r55/kawalekm/Andyatthegate.jpg
and the cabin is completed invisible from the road. People have driven by for years without ever knowing there was a cabin there. You don't know how much more secure that makes us feel that we are not a target that can be seen from the road.

Finally, we can do just about anything we damn well please, because we have the room to do it, and no-one close enough to object if we do! Codes and zoning are a little more relaxed when your closest neighbor isn't close enough to look through your windows.

Good luck with your land hunt!
Michael

[flatwater]

Moriko-- I think your going about it the right way by starting off with just your family and having your friends help. This will entice the ones that really want to make the move. Then as your friends decide to make the move and they get some labor help like they helped you , that builds relationships that last

[walls0stone]

In my experence, the best thing in the world was to own what I owned, and share with my friends, who own what they own. Never liked the idea of some group of people all on one lot. We have one of them close by. The only person who seems to stick around is the man who owns the land and the others come and go. (do the math)

I think have'n some space and willing helpers you don't recrute, but who willing want to help out in some way for the benifit of the group is the best. Then you are not sick of them in 3 years and busting up an otherwise great situation..

It's sort of like my old College Room mate. Best friends till we lived together in the same house.

[MorikoHa]

Thank you all so very much! ;D

[manoucherie]

One book I would recommend is "Back from the Land", I'm sorry I don't remember the author. Its about the hippy back to the land/ commune movement, but even if the hippy thing is a little off putting, its a great primer in what can go wrong when you try to homestead with too many ideals and not enough experience. They talk a lot about personal dynamics on a homestead.

In my opinion, its VERY hard to get people to live together that are not bound by the bonds of either family or a very strict religious order like the Amish. Without the unconditional love of family or discipline of rigid rules, its just too easy to misunderstand whose role is what and who needs to do that neverending work. From everything I've read, in other articles and publications about "planned communities", the communities that survive do so because their residents have substantial means and eventually divide up space so each family has clear bounderies, most times owning ajacent plots.

Having said that, every situation is different and I wish you luck. The right attitude would be to be flexible about how your friends and family interact when really working. Just try it out first.

And 5 acres is pretty small, but its something to work with and learn from.

Good Luck and keep us posted!