Ultimate Prepper Blog

[CapeCMom]

This guy is unbelievable. His blog covers everything including an expansive inventory he has done for his supplies-he has how to videos and everything. One of the most complete I have seen. Have fun looking around.

http://survivalsummary.wordpress.com

[WileyCoyote]

Pretty interesting - but I don't think I'd put out a blog that describes all my preps in detail, especially with videos. There's just too many people out there who would think it was a challenge...:eek:

[TEX]

I also notice that although he has spent tons of money - he list most of his skills as "novice", "watched a video", "read a book", etc - lots of "stuff" won't do much good if you don't know how to use them.

[CapeCMom]

Tex, I agree he has spent a boatload of money and that he needs work on certain things, but I think at least acknowledging his lack of experience is a start. I wondered about his detail, but it would be pretty tough to figure out exactly who he was and where unless you knew the guy and his dog personally. Someone wrote him a note and chided him over his lack of OPSEC but he really wanted to help people to get started. Gotta give him credit for at least trying to educate to newbies.

I was personally fascinated by the spreadsheet that he did for his storage items. It is amazing and I might try it myself. I had been using an LDS spread sheet online but I ran out of categories and could not expand on what I had. It bummed me out because I thought it was a great tool. Guess it's time to start over and try something new.

[TEX]

I got the feeling he might be some sort of computer program person to be able to do the spread sheet and stuff he had done.

I need to also make a spread sheet although DH can tell you every can/jar/package of anything we have or that we don't have. "Honey, where is that xyz". and his reply would be "right behind the salt or wherever it was."

[CapeCMom]

It sounds like your DH is really on the ball! I have some ability to remember what I have in the basement, but it often takes going down there to remember exactly how much I have. I don't know if I would be able to keep a perfect spread sheet for sure-too much constant rotating, and too many family members going down and grabbing stuff. It would never be right. But still it would give me a general idea of what I had down there and what I needed to put on my grocery list. My problem is I have an upstairs pantry but keep my Long term storage downstairs. I appreciate all of the room I have but it is a pain to keep rotating from one place to the other. I also hesitate over stocking the upstairs because I do not want DGI friends and family wandering into my pantry and saying-my god what do you need all of this food for! So I keep just the minimum up there and keep rotating. I keep trying to figure out a better way!

I am getting better at using the Excel program here at work-but unfortunately we have an Apple at home and I have not even attempted to use the word program yet-may be I will do that this weekend since the snow is flying yet again.

[Southerngirl]

Wow, that guy is pretty prepared in some sorts anyway. His detailed list is amazing!
I can see where I could learn some things from him, that is what it's all about, take what wisdom you can from this and that person and make it your own. Thank you for sharing! :)

[Travis]

Says he's on a 1/4 acre thats pretty impressive that you can be that prepared on a "suburb" lot. I do not know if I would want to get that detailed. An ISP address can be hacked and tracked.

[pcrowder]

I am concerned about their ability to feed themselves for the long-haul, as alot of the stuff listed under food is run by electricity (dehydrator, bread machine, grain mill, etc), and he doesn't have many empty mason jars to can with. He also has not really saved much in the way of seeds and says that they really haven't tried much in the way of canning, but overcooked the stuff they did try. My big concern for him is that he lives in the suburbs, yet on his blog tells everyone his weapons, what kind of guard dog he has, and how much food/stores he has, not to mention what type of vehicles they have and that his wife is 120 lbs, etc etc. Sounds like it wouldn't be too hard to figure out when he's not home and then take out wife/dog without much trouble if things gor rough. He is also some distance from home which could make him bugging back home to get the family difficult.

He does have some good info, but alot of the stuff relies extensively on electricity, which may/may not be available. I think if I were him, I'd concentrate on maybe getting a used, cheaper/smaller woodburning stove sooner rather than spending the big $$$ to get the pretty expensive plain one he is looking at later.

Also, what's he gonna do when the gasoline runs out? He's relying ALOT on his generators to recharge this and run that and so on.

And WHY is he posting the code word they use for their guns on the internet for all the world to see?
"We have a code word that we use when referring to guns that is “cat”.
We use it like can you go check on the cat when we think this is problem or we need to make sure they are all secured if kids are over.
“Cat Food” is the ammo or magazines.
We use it a good bit and no one has ever let on that it is code for something. "

WOW - was really shocked at the carelessness of that.

[CapeCMom]

Excellent points Pat-I hadn't gotten through all that you did-I was peeking at work!
I'm kind of hoping that this was misinformation on his part and that these are not the real code words he uses but uses them as an example-If not then he is pretty careless.

I spent most of my peeking time looking at what he had in his Bob and his spread sheets-I watched the two videos about his basement but didn't get into the others. I was interested in seeing what someone else had visually to compare to what I had.

1/4 acre is pretty small and I am surprised at his lack of gardening-but you can do some pretty intensive square foot gardening if you have the knowledge. My Mom has a small lot like that and she has a fantastic garden-but she has know how to get the most out of what she has.

[TEX]

He had like 24 tomatoes in a 10 ft row (not exact figures) in his garden - DUH

His seed set up had the sorriest excuse for tomato seedlings I have ever seen and Pcrowder - I agree about the amount of empty canning jars - that figure amazed me - Heck I have more than that stuffed into the back of the back shed because I don't want to clean them out.

He apparently is a gun and gadget fanatic - nice but not always practical.

[pcrowder]

Well, capec and tex- I couldn't help chuckle at them bugging out with a guinea pig and the cats....All I could see in my warped little mind was when the cat food ran out that the gerbil would be the first to be consumed as it was bottom of the food chain, and then when the dog food ran out the cats would be next, and so on!

I'm also very concerned about their bug out location -- it is quite a distance from them, and actually sounds like it is a less desirable set up than they have now - "Parents double wide manufactured home/cabin in Wisconsin; we plan to shelter in place unless we really need to leave. They don’t have any land for gardening and the neighbors are within 50 feet. We have three ways to cross into Wisconsin then there are many paths to the location. " -----No land for gardening and the neighbors are very very close - that would literally be my LAST resort. And if they shelter in place until they literally have to go, how are they gonna drag all of their stuff that distance, and then cram themselves (4 people) plus parents into a double-wide mobile home? Like I said, that would literally be my LAST resort.

I don't know - maybe I'm just too critical. I just get really concerned when people prep in one area that isn't as essential for survival over another. They have lots of guns and defense training and a vehicle alert system and a GPS, but don't seem to have practiced any real life skills to get them through for any length of time.

When my boys were small, when d/h was out of town on business, we'd do "Little House on the Prairie" nights where we'd cook on the wood stove and only use kerosene lamps and not use the phone, and etc. I'd even heat the water for their baths in canning pots on the wood stove, and we'd go out after breakfast and chop more firewood for the next days fires. I tried to make it as realistic as possible, because you never know when "it" is gonna happen, and you will rarely get any advance warning. You will just be plunged into a situation, and don't have time to watch videos or read articles before you have to act and react. I hate to say it, but watching candles being made on video is alot different than doing it yourself without burning down the house, and since he has never hunted, can he even butcher/skin an animal, let alone preserve it?

[CapeCMom]

All of what you said is true-

When the two older boys were little, we lost everything when our company went under. We had no money. We had no oil left in the tank- I spent many nights boiling water on the stove top to give those boys baths, and I learned to make due with nothing. That winter we even went scavenging in the woods across the street to find enough wood to heat the house. Thank god we had a wood stove! It does not sound like he has even been through hard times.

I thought it was funny about him making gerbil food in his dehydrator, and we as realists know what would finally happen to his gerbils, but maybe he was just trying to keep his two little girls sane if the SHTF. I bet he does not know what to do when his gas runs out to run the dehydrator-like the knowledge that he could use the sun or a hot car to dry his food. I plan to use my car and window screens to dry vegis if I could not do it any other way-but like him, I have not tried it-I think my DH would have a problem with tomato juice dripping all over the car-but I think it would work-I hope he at least had thought about stuff like this!

I guess it is eye opening to see someone who professes to be prepared, yet may lack real world knowledge and a creative imagination to make things work in a pinch.

[pcrowder]

I thought it was funny about him making gerbil food in his dehydrator,

How in the world did I miss that? Oh BROTHER!!!!!!!!
Like the reviewers on "Frontier House" said about the Clunes, "they seemed to work very hard, but in the wrong direction." I hate to say it, but he seems to have done that too. It is not that difficult to read a topo map - they should be learning how NOW. It is not that difficult to sew - both of them should learn to do that NOW, etc etc. The time to learn this is now, BEFORE you need to know how.

I also noticed something - he is 35 yrs old and weighs 200 lbs. Does he think that his paltry selection of seeds will be enough to sustain a family of 4 plus gerbil (couldn't resist that one!) for any length of time? They need much much more food to sustain themselves LONG TERM, and a place to garden. The bugout place in Wisconsin with no gardening spac will NOT sustain 6 people.

And I agree with Tex - he seems to be a gadget fanatic instead of a make-do kind of person.

[CapeCMom]

I forgot to add that I wonder if he is a disciple of Mr. Rawles. I am not digging his blog that much anymore because he focuses too much on weapons and gadgetry. JWR may have the money and knowhow to survive the long haul, but I think he sends the wrong message sometimes.

[CapeCMom]

I wondered about gardening in the Wisconsin bug out location. SHORT season!

[pcrowder]

How is gonna drag that HUGE wood stove (he hasn't bought yet!) to Wisconsin to stay warm? There is no mention of the parents having anything self-sustaining, and every mobile home I've come in contact with has been ALL electric and not at all well insulated.

[pcrowder]

I wondered about gardening in the Wisconsin bug out location. SHORT season!

He said - "They don’t have any land for gardening and the neighbors are within 50 feet. "

1. No garden space at all. HUGE HUGE drawback.
2. Neighbors within 50 feet - even if you could "container" garden, what do you wanna bet the food would disappear in the dead of night with neighbors that close?

Nah, they'd be better off staying put.

[CapeCMom]

Probably-but I wonder where exactly he is located. I wonder if lives in a major city or something. I don't plan on bugging out myself even though we live where we do-it would be too hard to get out of dodge. I've seen those bridges when a hurricane is threatening us-20 mile backup to get across with people freaking out-no thanks-let them leave. I'll hunker down here and hope for the best.

About his weight-hopefully he would slim down a little post SHTF, and not require so many calories. Live off the fat of the land so to speak. It could be he is just BIG-like viking big -but I wonder what his diet consists of now and how he would adjust to a new way of eating.

[pcrowder]

He said he lives in the suburbs. Seems like they have sooo many things that run off electricity, and more on the "to do" list, but very very very few hand tools. She has only 2 cast iron dutch ovens, no mention of even a propane turkey fryer or a fire pit. He has a big fancy water purifier, but states no where if he has a well. Where will he get his water if TSHTF? He said he lives on 1/4 acre - he only mentions he "could" get chickens or rabbits if they had to. Does he have a plan as to where to get them ahead of time? There are sooo many areas where he has no idea how his own stuff works -- he admits he has no idea how long 10 gals will run his propane back up heater. And, he's planning on using his generator to run space heaters for the house. I've got news for him - space heaters require alot of elec to run. Wouldn't be my choice. All these things he says he has no idea about --- well, the time to do "dry runs" is NOW - not in the middle of a crisis situation!

Also - if they do decide to bug out - how is he gonna drag all the crap he's bought? He states that his basement is FULL, and everything is in 24 rubbermaid tubs. Maybe I missed it, but I didn't see a trailer in his inventory list to drag it all to Wisconsin. Is he just gonna leave it behind, or become a target for attack on the road with his "Beverly Hillbillies"-type pile of stuff on his truck. IMHO, I think he needs to forgo crap like "high security window ballistic Film", "60 Minute fire Escape Hood", "7 inch hand held TV" and "Cat litter 6 months worth ", and concentrate on the essentials - food, water, shelter and yes, safety and protection, but not safety as the #1 focus at the neglect of the other areas. He said he has an electronic safe bolted down - is he gonna take the time to unbolt it and take it with him or how is he gonna get it open in a hurry if the power fails and they have to get out fast? Don't think he's real serious about gardening either - No mention I saw of gardening tools other than ONE hand trowel. They have a years' worth of laundry soap, but no mention of a washboard, wash tubs, or clothes ringer, or even a way to boil water to wash the clothes or themselves.
I don't know. Like I said, maybe I'm being too critical. But I honestly don't think he or his wife is prepared to live even mildly self-sufficiently in a crisis. Too many gadgets, not enough "simple and basic" items to get them through TSHTF. Maybe they should watch "frontier House" or a few old episodes of "The Waltons". I hate to say it, but I think that would do them more good than "Chamberlain Wireless Pedestrian & Vehicle Alert System with 2-Way Voice Communication and Remote Control"....

[patience]

That guy, well, I don't think he'll make it very long. Still got his head into the "buy-it-now" for strategy. No real emphasis on PRODUCING anything, like food or energy. His society-dependent background is sticking out all over the place. I doubt that it is even feasible to put up a comprehensive blog for a real prepared homesteader. If it were possible, most people of his type wouldn't know what most of it was.

Okay, I'm a redneck. No doubt. But us rednecks have a deep background in making-do, and getting by with it. I see adaptability and ingenuity as being the most valuble of assets in any difficult situation. Oh, I'm an inveterate list-maker, too, but my lists tend to be of things I need to DO, or MAKE.

I've been struck with envy and admiration many times reading this site, and others, but not by this fellow's efforts.

RE: Canning jars. I lost count (a couple or three hundred?), but there's 60 feet of shelving about 16" deep that is full of them, (mostly full), and several dozen in boxes in the barn and in the summer kitchen. Grow (and can) what you eat, and eat what you grow, is our motto. I don't have a garden layout on neatly squared graph paper, either, but we do have 4 big garden areas, and they are what has filled our pantry. This guy needs to get some experience in the real world, and lay off the gadget-buying for a while.

[WileyCoyote]

Wow, Ya'll certainly found a LOT more than I did! :D But then, reading about the bulletproof film and all kinda turned me off the list. Like many of you, I felt that 'gadgets' and spending money isn't as important as ongoing sustainability... whether the SHTF or not.

I talk about what I have in a general way, on my blog and here on BWH, in passing, like the chickens and the new calf and all. I guess if you sat down and read all of my (or any regular poster's) comments, you could pretty much decipher what we all have and don't have; what we are prepared for and what we are NOT prepared for. I don't prepare for hurricanes any more, but a lot of what I learned about hurricane prep is useful for severe winter storms, etc. And like a lot of you, I've been agonizingly poor - where we used to live my neighbors were appalled to find out that we were actually EATING those chickens, not just raising them for eggs and pets, because that was all the meat we had (aside from the wild hog, the deer, etc, that they didn't know about). I learned how to make or raise things because I didn't have them, needed them, and couldn't afford them in the stores. I may have a nice big kiln to fire my ceramic ware right now because it is more convenient; but I learned several years ago how to wood-fire pieces as well - just in case. I may have a nice kitchen now, but my kids were amazed to see me roast meat, cook vegetables, and even bake a cake on an open fire in a dutch oven! They grumbled and groused at having to shuck corn and pick beetlebugs in the garden, but now every one of them has gardens of their own.

I think maybe a lot of people have read some books on SHTF, some good and some not-so-good - seems like everyone who promotes conspiracy theories on their webpages also has "SHTF lifesaving necessaries for sale!" on those same webpages. And a lot of 'survivalist' folk seem to think that simply running off to the woods with enough guns will save them. They aren't teaching their kids simple survival skills like snares and fishing and walking quietly, because they don't know them and don't understand the use of them - they seem to think that they can bull their way through any situation. I taught my kids to sit perfectly still until the critters came up to THEM.

Something I learned when cutting school 'way back when - the way to be invisible is to do the same boring things the same way every day - then the day you aren't there they don't remember if you were there or not... hiding in plain sight, doing things normally, acting normally, not dressing in camo and playing at paint gun wars, just being boring and plain, is a lot easier and a lot cheaper - and a lot more effective. Heinlein calls it "rubbing blue mud into your belly button" - do on the surface what the locals do, smile quietly, and get along... never letting anyone know what is in your heart or in your basement. (My own Dad drove right past me one day while I was cutting, and didn't even recognize me; just came home and railed about 'those wild kids cutting school!!")

[pcrowder]

On his youtube tour of his basement storage http://survivalsummary.wordpress.com/2010/02/07/basement-survival-storage-new-layout/, )
he has boxes of dry cereal stored right above an open cat box. EEWWWWWWWW

He's got lots of boxes of cereal and crackers in their original pkging - how long before they all get weevils?

He has a plastic pipe for the sump pump (which means it does/has in the past had water issues), yet he is storing alot of things directly on the floor. He also has rice and flour in their original pkgs only a few inches above the floor - how long before they get an insect infestation or have moisture issues?

And-- he is storing his gasoline generator literally 2 feet from his flour and rice. Boy, betcha those will taste yummy when they absorb the odors of the oil and gasoline! I'm also seeing alot of soda, sugary cereals, and hawaiian punch juice boxes. I hate to say it, but there is an awful lot of empty calories and non-nutritional food in his "stores". Saw precious little canned fruit and vegetables, yet there must be 100 boxes of dry sugary cereal.

He boasts that he has enough food there for a year to a year and a half --- I hate to inform him, but what he is showing is NOT enough to sustain a family of four for nearly that long. There is not enough dry milk boxes to keep children in milk for long.

Was not impressed with his inventory droid -- too gadgety, too time consuming, too expensive, and what is he gonna do if he can't recharge the batteries for it?

I don't know -- the more I look at his youtube videos and check out his hand-drawn plans, the less impressed I am. Maybe he should spend less time buying high priced gadgets and spend more time LEARNING things --- like how to use his double sided axe (he said he hasn't had time) or how to pressure can foods without overcooking them.

Unfortunately, I think he is one of those who thinks that you can buy a guarantee of survival with alot of overpriced gadgets, lots of self-defense gizmos, and a basement filled with unhealthy food for prepping's sake alone. He is wrong ----Only dedication to almost total self-sufficiency and careful planning will facilitate survival if TSHTF. And even then, there are no guarantees. I wish him luck, but all the guns and alarms and self-defense gadgets won't do him a lick of good if he's starving to death.

[CapeCMom]

Pat, you would be surprised the number of people who store cereal and such that way. Sometimes I will wander the net and look at LDS sites and others sites such as this man's. Just to get ideas. I see a lot of people storing breakfast cereal. I have always wondered, should I be doing that? I don't have one box downstairs because I have all the stuff to make my own, and the stuff to make oatmeal. Besides breakfast cereal is so expensive, I can't imagine what it cost to buy all of those boxes.

The thing I was surprised at also was the mouse traps all over the place and how he said he was infested with mice all of the time-did he ever think that perhaps if you repackaged your stuff into proper containers, you wouldn't have mice?

[NCLee]

Interesting thread. I haven't visited the site yet, but it sounds like reality is far different from what the "Ultimate Prepper" is proclaiming.

FWIW, I see this type thing far too often while roaming around the net.

I've got $10,000 in guns and ammo, a fully equipped bug-out bag and 3 cans of Spam, camo clothing, combat boots, pig sticker knife and a fire starter flint & steel. I'm ready! Gonna head for the hills, live off the land and shoot zombies.

Yet, I suspect they'll be the first ones to grab "Leaves of Three" to wipe their butts.

Amazing sometimes how people think.

Lee

[WileyCoyote]

Gonna head for the hills, live off the land and shoot zombies.

Yet, I suspect they'll be the first ones to grab "Leaves of Three" to wipe their butts.

Amazing sometimes how people think.

Lee

:D :D :D ROFLMAO ZOMBIES!!!!

Yup, it kills me the way these young folk talk about 'zombies' as if they were a reality, like their video games come to life. They have no idea that the brain-suckers live among them, teach their children in school, or represent them in Washington... They fear hundreds of evil and nefarious things; vampires, werewolves, zombies, etc - without realizing that the real evil lives, looks just like, and walks among them.

[Gracie]

CapeCMom,

You mentioned you wonder if you should stock up on cereals.... Have watched this guy's 2 food prep videos, and what hit me, all these boxes of cereal, soft drinks, snacks, ect.; what is he going to do with these food stuffs when their expiration date comes up. I've used canned items slightly past their discontinue date in a pinch, but what are the health implications over time, when their eating foods that were not that healthy in the first place, that are now stale, flat, whatever. IMHO, believe you have the right idea in having your own ingredients to make your own.

Don't mean to be negative, but believe this fellow needs to go back to the drawing board, and re-access his situation realistically. Just my 2 cents.

Gracie

[pcrowder]

CapeC - A reasonable amount of boxed cereal is fine, but this guy has so many that how can he rotate them in a timely manner to keep them fresh and vermin/insect free?

I didn't notice the mouse traps because I was too busy trying to actually look at the quantity and type of stores he had. I'm glad you pointed that out. If he has THAT many mice, he'd better take drastic action NOW before his flour/sugar/cereal, etc are ALL contaminated. I wonder what his 2 cats do all day long if they aren't killing mice? I agree with you -- maybe if he re-packaged things, his rodent problem would go DOWN! I buy old METAL canisters, lard cans, popcorn tins, etc., to repackage and store my stuff in. I have dried beans in some, 550# of wheat berries in others, noodles in others, pkg'd gravy mixes in others, rice, cake mixes, tea bags, etc etc. Mice will chew through even heavy plastic Tupperware canisters, and anything except glass and metal. Believe me - I learned this the HARD WAY! Even if the rodents don't chew through the bags, they pee and poop wherever they walk, and this will very soon soak in and contaminate his dry goods, not to mention the unsanitary aspect of having USED cat litter in such close proximity too.

I got to thinking that maybe if he bought stuff used instead of new, and thought further ahead, he would be better prepared. One example: He has a bunch of flashlights that will have to be continually recharged using that small generator (which will also be powering the space heaters to heat his home.) If it were me, I'd be adding several Dietz-type barn lanterns you can hang from a plant hook or nail and a couple of jugs of kerosene. As anyone who has used kerosene lanterns can tell you, they may stink, but they also put out ALOT of heat in a room, something that his flashlights won't do, and thereby doing "double duty". I've even read where you can run them off of baby oil. I bought some to try it, but haven't done it yet. They even make one now that comes with a tin cup that sits on top so you can heat up a cup of liquid at the same time as using it for light - again doing "double duty". Also, everything of his is shiny and new that I saw. Has he even bothered to take his generator out for a "test drive"? If I would have been him, I'd have opted for buying the MANUAL grain grinder first, and then splurge on the elec one later when $$ was more plentiful. I would find myself a good SMALL used wood stove and learn to cook and bake in it before I invested $3k++ on a big one that will have to be freighted in from Pennsylvania. I may have missed it, but I didn't see any stores of winter clothes/boots/sleeping bags/wool blankets for any of them. It is amazing the stuff you can find CHEAP on EBay, and goodness knows I think I keep them and the postal service running single-handedly. If I were him, I'd be investing in a new or used turkey fryer. My reasoning is that it has a pretty heavy-duty stand and a heavy duty pot with lid, and you could remove the propane tank and hose and fitting, and you could build a wood fire under it for everything from heating bath water to canning to heating water for laundry or to wash dishes, or even for boiling large amounts of water for drinking. They can be big, but you can transport them if needed, and store stuff inside of them during the trip.
Another thing I thought is that he needed to move that generator OUT of that dark cramped corner into a much more accessible area. If the power goes out, he's gonna be trying to drag that thing across the floor with a flashlight shoved in his mouth, hoping he doesn't knock one of his "aisles" over. He does have some of his "aisles" awfully close together IMHO.

I thought it was quite "telling" that his order for bringing stuff to the assembly point put the gerbil before guns....I think he really needs to rethink alot of his plans. Having 4 people all running in different directions just dumping crap on the floor on sheets doesn't sound too organized to me!

[pcrowder]

Cape C - you have it right about the cereal -- you have the stuff to make your own and it is much healthier and cheaper. I hope he and his family aren't planning on eating nothing but cereal and juice boxes, because if he eats too much cereal constantly for too long of a time, he will be filling up his composting potty PDQ!

[Not2L8]

I haven't visited his blog and after reading this thread I see no reason too. I do think someone should invite him to visit this site. If he doesn't learn and put into practice the skills needed, he will find that experience wont come until after it is needed.

I've gained alot of skills over the years, but have learned so much more since joining this forum. My thanks to everyone who shares their knowledge here!:)

[CapeCMom]

I had been thinking of the cereal thing but I was too afraid of it going stale, and also getting those Miller Moths in it. My boys love their cereal (I buy decent cereal for everyday with nuts and dried fruit in it at least) but they are going to have to suck it up and eat the other stuff if need be. We can all learn to live with less when the going gets tough! I have a great granola recipe and there are plenty of add- ins around to spice up oatmeal. I also keep a supply of grits around that are tasty for breakfast.

I had a mouse problem once (when we were dirt poor in a less than desirable rental) I used to open up my dishwasher and the little buggers would peek out me as they had gotten inside and were eating the few scraps left on the dishes. Yuck! They used to steal dog food out of the dog's dishes. This we found out when we pulled some insulation out of the ceiling in the basement and the food rained down on our heads. That kind of stuff grosses me out!
Like you I learned the hard way about putting things away properly and setting traps etc.

I noticed that he had bought some 02 absorbers so hopefully he is preparing to pack up his dry goods properly. I just hope it's not too late-or he's lost some money. I also noticed he is part of that forum that has a link on his blog. I have read some of the other's preppers comments about his site, and some of them have said the same things we have and others think he is the ultimate! I am tempted to join to show him the way but as a newbie to that forum, I don't know if it would be appreciated.

[pcrowder]

I’ve just started going item by item down his “security” list --- if TSHTF, someone please tell me what good a $149.00 mail box would be???? Epoch #7106 Black Mail Boss Mailbox Or why he would need a CCD camera? TODO (next): Q-See QSC48030 High Resolution Weatherproof CCD Camera w/80ft of Night Vision (Color) Doesn’t he realize that a lot of his gadgets rely on electricity? I just read further, and his two vehicles are both suburbans and his idea of carrying stuff for them is a Thule 867 Tahoe Rooftop Cargo Bag . How is he gonna carry ANYTHING in those flimsy things? Another thing he needs to think about is the bugging out in 2 vechicles – his wife will be in one vehicle with possibly the kids – who is going to be the easier target to hijack? A 300# guy or a 120# woman? I think that if you bug out everyone should stay together in the same vehicle – goes back to the old adage “strength in numbers”.
He’s got a 10# sledge hammer but no spare handles, and no splitting mauls to make firewood. Doesn’t have a chainsaw either.
I did make an error earlier – on his list he DOES have a few sleeping bags, but they are all 20 degree bags! He lives in MN and is gonna bug out to Wisconsin – hate to tell him, but it gets colder than 20 degrees in both places in the winter! How about some -30 bags?

This one made me bust out laughing – he’s kidding, right??? "CamelBak Ranger XT 100-Ounce Hydration CamelBack Pack – My truck (In the winter I keep an empty plastic bottle at work and will fill up if I need to hike it home.)" Hike it home with a camel back pack? He is 25 miles EACH WAY from work!

Well, if nothing else, this is a real eye-opener and is a guide for all of us what NOT to do to prep. This may have been more of an educational thread then we ever thought when we first started out!

[Not2L8]

I am tempted to join to show him the way but as a newbie to that forum, I don't know if it would be appreciated.

I would be careful with that. If he truly believes he his the ultimate prepper your advice would not be appreciated. I know a couple of guys that are "know it alls" and if you try to teach them anything they often reply with personal attacks. IMHO there are some people you just can't help.

[pcrowder]

Capec - the worst thing is when they get in the oven! You go to put a pan on the burner and hear them scampering around inside, doing mousey gymnastics on the oven racks. eeewwww! If he were smart, he would move the cat box and the cat/dog food OUT of the pantry, temporarily seal up the cat flap, and cover the floor with glue traps and shallow bowls of soda pop. (Mice can't burp, but they love the sweet fizzy soda, drink it and then their little stomachs explode inside! - Fast and non-toxic solution!)
I'll have to go back and look at his video for the mouse traps. I'm just still grossed out about the flour, sugar, rice, etc., being stored in a closed room (not much air circulation) with gasoline, mice and a cat litter box.

And I think Not2 is right ---- I truly don't think yours (nor anyone here) advice would be welcomed. It's quite apparent that he is determined on having all the latest gizmos yet doesn't have alot of the very basic skills needed to sustain himself and his family. I'm sure in his heart and mind that he thinks he is "super prepper" and that they will survive anything due to his forethought. Well, maybe he can trade alot of his gizmos for something USEFUL if TSHTF....but then again, probably not. Everybody is gonna be overloaded with stuff that runs on elec or needs recharging. He doesn't have much in his preps that I'd be interested in bartering for. Maybe he can barter with his pop tarts, soda, chips and cake mixes --- oh yeah, and his nickles!



Ok - I just went back and found the 2 videos I'd missed -- sorry, but 6 mice in 2 months is not my idea of the cat doing a great job! And, if you notice, he STILL hadn't fixed the hole where they were coming in! It's just very ironic --- He's got an elec wheat grinder but there was no mention of any stored wheat berries, and they had only 1 small box of instant oats. The paultry amount of canned veggies and fruits would not be enough to sustain their diet nutritionally, and I think although they would find themselves eating, they would actually be malnourished if they had to live on their stores for very long. Sugar cereal and potato chips is NOT a proper diet.

Also, other than a bunch of canned chili, a few cans of canned turkey, and a few #10 cans of Mountain Man stuff, I sure didn't see much MEAT. Just lots and lots of soda and junk food. Oh wait -- I forgot - they also have the gerbil food the can fall back on!


Sorry, but now I just can't stop laughing! The best of intentions........I guess.

[Travis]

I am learning more from the comments here about what he is doing wrong then what I see in his blog.

[CapeCMom]

I find it curious that he would want to document a SHTF scenario-assuming that's why he wants the camera. I wonder if he's ex military. The need to document those kinds of things reminds me of my son and his unit. I made him make me a separate disk of photos without the blood and guts stuff in it for myself. But then again, you would think he would have more common sense if he were military...

Pat, I never knew about the soda pop thing with mice! It reminded me of that old "Pop Rocks" lore from the 80's.

I did notice the amount of soda he had in his storage and thought it was odd. Besides the sugar, what benefit would soda have besides a psychological one if TSHTF? Go ahead-rot your kids teeth out when there are no more dentists! The only thing sugary I have in my stash is gatorade. I figured it would be good to have for a really hot day and you needed to replenish your electrolytes. I am glad at least that he seems to have a berkey water filter, but there is no mention about him having a well or a close by water source-may be I missed it. I do not have a well myself, but I have a large pond near me that would serve as a drinking source once boiled and filtered.

I am impressed with the amount of what berries you have! I am still lacking in that department myself. Have the wheat grinder and a fair amount of pop corn to grind if need be, but no wheat. I had hoped to get a tax refund so I could make a large order, but no luck. And I can't get it around here-I have tried. The grain mill only sells animal feed and had no interest in ordering some for me. The health food store looked at me like I had three heads when I asked them about it-so the internet is my only source. We don't have a whole foods around here either-the only one is close to Boston-and who knows what kind of crazy prices they would have! I have about 100 lbs. of flour on hand but that will only last so long. Oh well-I guess I will have to try small orders online. I just hate to pay shipping. I also hate that the UPS guy would know what I was getting! I prefer to fly under the radar, you know?

About his lack of meat-I hope he doesn't think that he will just hunt to provide meat for his family. Doesn't he realize how quickly wild game will be wiped out if EVERYONE is doing the same thing?-and if he did get a deer or something-does he know how to preserve it? That's an awful lot of meat to just sit around.

[WileyCoyote]

Cape C mom - as for under the radar - perhaps there is a co-op purchasing group in your area? You can purchase thru them... ask around at the local farmers' markets, even some smaller shops or restaurants, art groups, etc. The local co-op buys in tremendous bulk every month - and if you want something but can't afford the big order, a lot of times the folks in the co-op in similar circumstances will split it and the cost with you.

I found an excellent resource for quantity purchasing, but I don't know how available it is to everyone. Our local high school orders in bulk (she doesn't do a whole lot of fast food items, makes her own bread, etc) and will include bulk orders with hers every Monday. We make the checks out to the school.

[CapeCMom]

Thanks for the suggestions Wiley-I asked my friend who runs the local farmer's market and she had no idea where to get wheat berries. She's pretty big in the farming culture here. I was bummed out to say the least.

I think I need to make friends with an LDS person. We have a church only a few miles from us. I am sure they must have a cannery around. May be if I volunteered or something I could get access-or even better maybe that person could take me.

[MissouriFree]

I have been following this thread with interest. I guess what I am seeing a guy that is really good at making list and spreadsheets and accomplishing a small portion of what he list.. Ihave to wonderhow much of what he has listed he really has .

For me I will take Rawles any day.

[TEX]

CapeMom - check out Frontier Survival.net - $12.95 shipping per order, no matter the size.

[CapeCMom]

THANKS TEX!!!

Not a bad price. I will definitely go check it out.

[Paddy]

I am getting better at using the Excel program here at work-but unfortunately we have an Apple at home and I have not even attempted to use the word program yet-may be I will do that this weekend since the snow is flying yet again.

A suggestion to reduce the problem of adapting Excel work to the Apple computer:

http://why.openoffice.org/index.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenOffice.org#Operating_system_compatibility
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenOffice.org

It is easier than Microsoft Office to learn and use it. It is *free*, and that cannot change due to its open license. It works on Windows as well as Mac OS. Annnnd... it reads Microsoft Office files. This means you can use the same office software on both computers and just send the updated file back and forth.

This specifically provides a summary of Calc, the OpenOffice.org answer to Microsoft Excel:

http://www.openoffice.org/product/calc.html

---Paddy

[CapeCMom]

Thank you Paddy! That was a lot to look up-I appreciate it.

[pcrowder]

CapeCM - I got one bucket each of red winter wheat, barley, and whole rye from Pleasant Hill Grain. I got the rest of my wheat straight from the combine as it was being harvested. I got the wheat from PHG because it is already cleaned, and comes in buckets with oxygen absorber. If I have to, I figure I can use that first if TSHTF and while I'm using it, I can be cleaning the field wheat. No one around here grows rye, and we LOVE dark rye bread in the winter with potato soup, fried cabbage, etc, so I figured I'd get some of that too. They shipped very quickly and there is a standard shipping charge per bucket.

[CountryGuy]

hmmm I read thru some of his site and watched a few of his videos. I think his heart and intentions are in the right place but his actions are all in the wrong directions. I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt on somethings and assume some is misdirection. If not I'd like to know what books he has there that he's read so i can make sure I don't have them in my library.

I agree his storage methods and ideas are scary as far as gas stored close, things stored on the floors and also still in their original bags. If he got rid of all the junk food and sugary drinks he wouldn't need 18" aisles and would have a lot of room to build some heavy duty shelves out of 2x4 and plywood to store canned goods. I think gatorade is a great idea for the electrolytes when working hard or if someone is very ill but I opt for the packets of powdered mix stored in metal coffee cans. In one small can I probably can make 2 times more than he has sitting there.

His entire food stores look to mainly be highly processed carbs and sugars. not much in the way healthy diet or really even any proteins at all. I don't think I even saw peanut butter but i did see several gallons of Tide. In one of the first 2 basement vids he does mention he has LDS stores along with his Mountian food so I guess this is where the grinder comes into play? How long do they plan to live off Mac & Cheese, instant potatoes, and spaghetti-O's? I get having some comfort foods as I've read it will help young children to have something a little more "normal" to before a crisis. Help them remember the good days and ease the stress.

I do have to say I like that battery deal he has where it's portable and can be charged off a solar panel and then used to recharge whatever or power his expensive 12V lights. Would be a good way for recharging batteries or powering a radio or what not.

On the gun side...OK I like guns and I totally get the small mouse gun for deep conceal or back up. But 4 or 5 .380's, a .38, and a .22? Oh I forgot I think he had a compact 9mm too? I think if I were him I'd swap those Keltecs, that 9mm, and that .270 rifle for a good used 30-30 and .45. keep a pocket gun for each of them, the .357 for the wife and he needs to step up to a .40, 10mm, or .45 to get something with some distance and stopping power. Also, I don't know how much he spent in that bullet proof film, fancy dead bolts, and security cameras but it sure could have been better spent on more practical equipment and food stuffs. It would be interesting to see the full total for what all he has spent in Gizmos and expensive junk foods.

I think, like many of you have mentioned or inferred that he needs to put down the books and start practicing and getting his nifty toys dirty (not to mention find out which ones break after 5 minutes of play). How many gas cans does he have for each of those gas sucking Suburbans for when he makes his pilgrimage from MN to WI. Are those cans sitting full in his garage right now? He says he has 3 routes to his back up site in WI; has he driven them all? Made notes on possible issues along each one? Looked at potential detours or closure points? Has he loaded up his trucks and driven them to realistically determine how much gas they'll burn to get there. It'll also let him see how long it takes his fancy Chinese made roof bags to fall apart and scatter his stuff all over the highway.

[patience]

Right. Lotsa sizzle, and not much steak, IMHO.

You wanna store gasoline? Do it outdoors in a farm-size tank. Much less loss of the high fractions, thus longer life, and reasonably safe. Of course, that won't work on a city lot. Which brings up the idea that he is pretty much in a not-so-good place to start with.

Storing food? As others have said, look for nutrition and storage density, not processed sugary foods. If this fellow plans to transport food to his BO location, he needs to be even more stringent about density.

There is almost no place for electronics on our place. That stuff dies young, and is of questionable value to me. My corn sheller is over 100 years old, and still works. I wouldn't bet that this laptop will be working in 10 years, let alone 100. The only electronics in our plans are a good SW radio, a couple AM/FM sets, and a pair of walkie talkies--nice if they work, but we don't plan to rely very heavily on those. Makes more sense to me to put the money in a good bicycle or two.

Generally, if planning for any long term problem, I want proven, simple, mechanical stuff that operates by manpower. Reliability is criterion number one. Well, I have a chainsaw, but I also have 5 crosscut saws. guess what will last the longest, and work under almost any circumstances? But then, if I want to assure by backside stays covered, I want a belt AND suspenders.

[Travis]

Patience I like your idea of using modern technology while we have the means ie a chainsaw, but you have a back up plan ie crosscut saw and know how to use it(I presume) prior to the shtf senario. I am slowly but surely finding more and more old world stuff for my stock pile.

[patience]

Crosscut saws are simple to use--just laborious. The expertise comes in keeping it sharp, set, and the teeth equalized in length, done with a tool called a jointer. Getting the saw in perfect condition saves 3/4 of the work in using it. They do go through a log pretty fast, when the saw is right.

John Shuttleworth (The Mother Earth News founder) coined a term--appropriate technology. He meant to use the most sensible means for any given task, all things considered. That will vary according to one's situation, of course. He wanted people to THINK about what they are doing. For me, that means to use the benefits of fossil fuels to position myself to not need fossil fuels, or at least, a minimum of them. For assuring my future, which could be without much purchased energy, I want manual means of doing it all, if possible.

Many times, manual is faster and often easier. I can limb a tree a lot faster using an axe than with a chainsaw, and do less work! Stand beside the trunk and swing it like a golf club. (Mind your safety rules!) If you are a good judge of the force required, it takes little work to clean the limbs off a green tree. I am assuming the axe is ground to a thin, keen edge for chopping, not splitting = more blunt. Sawing up big logs is another story--I go for the chainsaw. If the firewood is easy to spit, I use an axe ground to a thick edge, and get done faster than with the gas powered splitter, but more work. (Yes, you need 2 axes.) Your choice, but the idea is to consider all the alternatives and make an informed decision.

[NCLee]

Patience, for some reason your "appropriate technology" post reminded me of breaking down wooden pallets. Depending on the wood in the pallet, tools range from a maul, prybar, circular saw or sawsall.

Nice oak pallet with wide/thick boards suitable for planing and jointing vs the flimsy ones for kindling along with oak runners for the wood stove. If the wood is going into the stove, I'm sure not going to wrestle out those blasted spiral cut nails. OTOH, if the pallet was made overseas from a hard to get here tropical wood, I'll use the "appropriate technology" to save every inch of that wood.

While my little shop is nothing in comparison to the scope of yours, I still strive to have and use both electric and non electric tools. For example, I have a drill press with the laser light guide. Also have my fathers brace. Sometimes that old brace is far more appropriate than the fancy press.

Lee

[CapeCMom]

I watched Jerimiah Johnson for the 100th time last night and it reminded me of this thread.
Especially when the three of them figured out how to build their cabin with only the most basic tools-some of them homemade. In fact the only thing I think he bought was his axe head. It's that kind of knowledge or creativity that you need to learn to survive in the worst of circumstances.

It also reminded me of the "Little House on the Prairie" series of books that i read as a kid. When Pa built their cabin for example and the girls making chinking out of mud and grass.
There are so many resources out there to learn from. Even from kids books. You don't need fancy tools to survive. Just the knowhow and most basic of tools.

[NCLee]

Mom, take a look at this series of books if you're interested in more of how they did some of those things. Bushcraft http://chrismolloy.com/www/p131

I've finally finished downloading them and printing. Too a while, because I'm on dial up. But, IMHO, it was worth the effort to get copies into my DIY notebooks.

BTW, To save paper and ink, I did a copy/paste, resized pix, smaller text, etc. Included the link to each book, so I can get back to the original links to refer others to the source.

Lee

[cinok]

Reminds me of that thread a while back of the yuppie who was prepping with high dollar beer and coffee

[WileyCoyote]

Patience, for some reason your "appropriate technology" post reminded me of breaking down wooden pallets. Depending on the wood in the pallet, tools range from a maul, prybar, circular saw or sawsall. Lee

Something weird we noted on our last major-weight delivery - some of the pallets were made of thick boards of extruded PVC. They looked like smooth wood, but no splinters, and were solid enough to cut with the sawzall and use for small building/repair projects. But we can't burn the scraps, darnit.

We use wooden pallets around here to help with fence holes as a temp fix; some we've seen wired right into the barbed wire where the wind or water has carved out gullies underneath! We'll take 'em apart and use them for anything, as long as we an do so quickly. I don't like burning nailed or screwed scraps in the woodstove, though - I put my ashes and cinders in the compost pile and don't want metals in there.

[Oblio13]

Thanks for posting this link, I got a couple good ideas from it - like the ballistic window film. I'm going to put that on our cabin to deter vandalism.

[NCLee]

Something weird we noted on our last major-weight delivery - some of the pallets were made of thick boards of extruded PVC. They looked like smooth wood, but no splinters, and were solid enough to cut with the sawzall and use for small building/repair projects. But we can't burn the scraps, darnit.

We use wooden pallets around here to help with fence holes as a temp fix; some we've seen wired right into the barbed wire where the wind or water has carved out gullies underneath! We'll take 'em apart and use them for anything, as long as we an do so quickly. I don't like burning nailed or screwed scraps in the woodstove, though - I put my ashes and cinders in the compost pile and don't want metals in there.

Sounds like some company is using the PVC decking boards, instead of lumber. That's strange, though, based on the cost of that stuff when compared to decking lumber and especially with 2x6 boards.

Get yourself a magnet on a stick. Bought mine at Lowes or Home Depot. It ran around $20, if memory serves. It's a 2-3" circular magnet that's mounted on the end of the equivalent of a mop handle. We use it a lot around here. Drop a screw in the grass or dirt and can't find it? That magnet will, unless it's non ferrous. Just put a plastic sandwich bag over the end of it and run it through the ashes to grab the nails. I use the sandwich bags because we have a lot of iron ore particles in the soil around here. Makes it easier to clean the stuff off the magnet by simply removing the sandwich bag.

Lee

[WileyCoyote]

:D DH used to be a mechanic on fire trucks, so he has one of those magnets already! (Didja ever notice while working on any vehicle that any nuts, bolts, etc that you drop, roll right to the exact center underneath the vehicle?) But the sandwich bag is a great idea! Thanks!

I don't get the PVC stuff for pallets either; we used to hang blinds made of it ("Faux wood") and it was far more expensive than the wood - of course it lasted longer. The stuff that came on top of it was heavy; some of the wood pallets they used had splintered under the weight, so maybe that's the reason. Still...

[CountryGuy]

Sounds like some company is using the PVC decking boards, instead of lumber. That's strange, though, based on the cost of that stuff when compared to decking lumber and especially with 2x6 boards.
Lee

Lee

A lot of companies are starting to use these for pallets now because they're "green" and take a beating and can be sterilized which is required to ship out of the country. I can't figure that, all these 2nd and 3rd world holes require use to sterilze our pallets yet our govt hasn't gotten smart enough to require the same for the crap they ship here. God knows what comes in those pallets from China and Mexico.

Anyway, most are made from extruded HDPE from recycled milk jugs and wood fiber or wood flour is added as filler and to help reinforce them. Since it's recycled milk jugs it's cheaper, easier to process, and stronger than PVC. They use a lower grade for the commercial grade since they don't look "pretty". Trex brand is the pretty stuff sold thru home stores with the wood grain added. It's tough stuff for skids and as you've found for stuff around the farm. As for getting rid of scraps, if you have a local or county recycle center they might accept them.

Are they using plastic "4x4" for the stringers or hardwood?

[AlchemyAcres]

I can't figure that, all these 2nd and 3rd world holes require use to sterilze our pallets yet our govt hasn't gotten smart enough to require the same for the crap they ship here.

EXACTLY!!!!

That's why we have pests like the Emerald Ash Borer!!!!!!

BILLIONS of dollars in damage for a few pallets of 5 for a $1 slave-labor produced plastic fly swatters!!!

YEP!!! Makes sense to me!!!!

Don't get me started!!!!!!!!!


~Martin

[pcrowder]

Well, I was able to find a few mins today to read more of his past garden threads. Here is a picture of his garden(s), and a little more insight into his surroundings http://thesurvivalpodcast.com/forum/index.php?topic=4465.0

I guess this explains why he feels the need to own soooo many guns. Check out the proximity of the neighbors.....

[pcrowder]

I found another page that I only had time to glance at http://observers.france24.com/en/content/20100309-usa-preppers-food-storage-first-aid-ready-for-disaster

Hope to be able to read more of it later

This one looks good too http://preparednesspro.wordpress.com/2009/07/08/underwhelmed-in-food-storage-part-1-of-8/

[CapeCMom]

Most of the people in that first article are Mormons. That older couple has been featured in several articles about the prepper movement. The girl who has the video for her company "Myfoodstoragedeals.com" is also a mormon. She is crazy organized-and her storage area is clean and concise. She DOES store some of her things a little weirdly though like she has bags of flour and sugar just tossed inside big metal cans-like oil barrels. All are in original bags and containers. The rest of her stuff though is very well done.

Thanks for posting Pat!

By the way-the ultimate prepper guy-yeah he lives in a dense neighborhood and he has made no effort to seclude himself with a fence and or plantings. And I don't mean to be rude-but he couldn't grow much in the small sized garden he has-I mean you gotta give him credit for trying but really?
I myself am expanding my vegi patch because I don't think my 100x50 garden is enough. But to each his own.

[pcrowder]

Most of the people in that first article are Mormons. That older couple has been featured in several articles about the prepper movement. The girl who has the video for her company "Myfoodstoragedeals.com" is also a mormon. She is crazy organized-and her storage area is clean and concise. She DOES store some of her things a little weirdly though like she has bags of flour and sugar just tossed inside big metal cans-like oil barrels. All are in original bags and containers. The rest of her stuff though is very well done.

Thanks for posting Pat!

By the way-the ultimate prepper guy-yeah he lives in a dense neighborhood and he has made no effort to seclude himself with a fence and or plantings. And I don't mean to be rude-but he couldn't grow much in the small sized garden he has-I mean you gotta give him credit for trying but really?
I myself am expanding my vegi patch because I don't think my 100x50 garden is enough. But to each his own.

I didn't get much time to glance at the links I posted yet, but they looked interesting and well done. Am hoping when things calm down around here this week, I can actually spend time looking at them more closely.

I couldn't believe "U-P-guy" didn't even try to disguise the garden. A small fence to make it look like a play yard for the kids would have at least been something. Nobody looks twice at a kids play area, but everyone will look closely at what he's got now.

Yeah I noticed the teeny garden. Two thoughts - I know he's trying to maximize space, but planting strawberries on an unstable slope will mean disaster the first heavy rain that comes down. (Been there, learned my lesson thank you!). Those plants will just be washed down the hillside. And, - the garden is WAY too small to even justify the water use and hassle of trying to weed it vs. the amount of potential food grown there. It really reminded me of the old "The Waltons" TV show --- they had 11 people living in the house and only had the teeeniest front yard garden! I know it was only a TV show, but it really cracked me up every time I watched it!

[TEX]

The first thing that popped into my mind was that he didn't have any basic home economics knowledge - nutrition in food; getting rid of his mice, etc. Food storage and storage of fuels - that's just good home economics. What ever happened to Home economics in school?

[pcrowder]

The first thing that popped into my mind was that he didn't have any basic home economics knowledge - nutrition in food; getting rid of his mice, etc. Food storage and storage of fuels - that's just good home economics. What ever happened to Home economics in school?

I haven't had kids in public school in 20+ years, so I can't give a credible answer, but it looks to me as if it has gone by the wayside. I was shocked at the lack of nutrition in his stores -- if it was just him and his wife, fine, do what you want. But he has CHILDREN, and needs to consider their health first and foremost. I hope they realize that if they live on all that cereal and dried milk, it will have unpleasant gastrointestinal consequences due to the poor fiber and heavy sugar load.

[Travis]

I myself am expanding my vegi patch because I don't think my 100x50 garden is enough. But to each his own.


Holy smokes a 100x50 is to small. I moved up this year to 30x30 and felt it was big. I am a family of 5 and new to all this stuff.

Is there a way or a site that I can calculate yields based on plants? I felt I had alot going into the ground.

[CapeCMom]

I think it's just too small for me because of the variety of stuff I am growing. I am probably overdoing it. We have a family of five also. Four of us are adults-plus if the SHTF we will have other family here also. I always over plan, lol.
I do 50ft rows of each kind of stuff. Last year I had 100 ft of beans alone. I am doing corn and 3 kinds of potatoes this year, plus all of the regular stuff. I am trying to grow melons this year-we'll see how it goes-our weather here is iffy for melons but I am going to try it.

I don't know exactly how to calculate yields-it is all guess work because you never know what kind of season you will have. You might have bad weather-you might have bugs or critters etc. I have enough seeds to do a second planting if things go bad this spring. Stuff is selling out quick here. I bought all that I would need early just in case. I am glad I did.
I just need more mason jars.

[pcrowder]

Me too (on the jars)! They are all but impossible to find even at the farm auctions. Heck even Walmart and Ace Hardware had only a precious few last year, and they sold out the same day they hit the shelves. I'm driving to Cheyenne on the 28th to visit my DIL, so I'm hoping some of the stores up there will have some.

I never know how much of any one thing to plant either. I'm gonna plant as much as I can possibly use without wasting any food, and I have a 41 qt All American canner that will be getting a real workout this summer. And, if there are things that we use that we cannot grow here (like celery), I intend to buy them at the store whenever they're cheap and then can can can like a mad woman.

[Gracie]

Pat,

Thank you for your post, on canning-your example was celery; your post has solved a problem I have been worrying about We have an approx. 50'x50' garden plot with no where to expand. We can't possibly grow what all we want, but can, Can some of it, when reasonably priced @ the grocery. That's brilliant!

Thank You!

Gracie

[TEX]

Big lots had them last weekend for 7 dollars a case. Car was too full to add any or I would have added them.

and here is a link to a garden calculator - haven't had time to use it or even look at it but what the heck - it might be useful

Knowledge is power

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPCW1Msw3T0&feature=youtube_gdata

[pcrowder]

Pat,

Thank you for your post, on canning-your example was celery; your post has solved a problem I have been worrying about We have an approx. 50'x50' garden plot with no where to expand. We can't possibly grow what all we want, but can, Can some of it, when reasonably priced @ the grocery. That's brilliant!

Thank You!

Gracie

Gracie - I do it ALOT! If the grocery store has sales on carrots or potatoes or kale or whatever, I can them when they're on sale. I can up cranberries and sweet potatoes around Thanksgiving, Pumpkins at Halloween, and can up cabbage (and freeze extra corned beef) around St. Patrick's Day. Our weather has been unpredictable the last 2 years, so I take advantage of what the stores carry to can up what's on sale when it's out of season here. I know soon they'll have hams on sale for Easter, so I'll buy extras and can those up to supplement our homegrown pig. At Thanksgiving, I also get extra turkeys to bake and can those up too. The store had bananas dirt cheap awhile back, so I got a whole bunch and dehydrated them, and also made banana butter and canned it up. I figure if nothing else, it will add to my "stores" and to compensate for those years when the gardens don't do well, or if the economy gets worse then we'll have some food in reserve so our $$ can be spent on hay or utilities or whatever. And, some things cost so much more in the winter (celery, for example!) than they do at other times, and I just can't see spending $$ on overpriced food in February that I can buy so much cheaper in July.

[pcrowder]

Thanks for the calculator Tex!

[Gracie]

Pat,

We've always enjoyed eating what we plant, not only tastes better, but you know what went into it. But with our economy in the mess it's in, we'd rather eat canned foods, perhaps with some chemicals, than not eat @ all!

Funny, I thought we had enough canning jars for this years garden...now realize we sure do need a whole bunch more. :yes4:

Gracie

[NCLee]

For many folks with limited gardening space and limited time (even with a large space) it takes a combination, IMHO, too.

Buying canned goods when they are on sale at the stores. Buying produce from the stores on the seasonal sales (as mentioned above).

And, buying produce at the warehouse stores, such as Sam's Club. Especially the frozen bulk bags that can then be dehydrated with a minimum of work. They can be a good source for those things that don't grow well in a given area. Or, just don't yield enough to justify the space they take.

Next, check out every farmer's market that's within reasonable driving distance. That's our source, every year for sweet corn. Buying it fresh picked right off the back of a truck, is almost as good as picking it yourself. During sweet corn season, I buy in batches that I can quickly process, so I don't overload the freezer, when when vac sealing corn on the cob.

If available in your area, another good source to supplement what you can grow in your garden are road side produce stands. Some of these can be economical. Just depends on the vendor's source(s). If the vendor buys from the local farmer's market, then re-sells, naturally you have to pay their overhead and some margin of profit for them.

Sometimes, neighbors can be a source. Especially in a good crop year. Most gardeners, with a surplus, want to find someone who can use it. Plus, they may offer barter potential. You've got surplus eggs, they've got land. Swap some eggs for a few extra rows of what you want to plant. Or, bake them some fresh bread, home made jelly for access to their apple tree. etc. & etc.

IMHO, it takes a combination of some/all of these to help stock a pantry when gardening space is limited and/or there a problems with the garden. Here it's those blasted deer and a disease in the land that kills my tomatoes, (even the resistant hybrids).

Just some "food" for thought, this morning.
Lee

[CapeCMom]

Thanks for the resources on the jars! Walmart hasn't even gotten them in yet, and ACE hardware and Aubuchon has had a limited supply as they are already running out. I try to buy a dozen a week and throw in a few boxes of lids. I know people like you Lee have hundreds of jars, and I am jealous of that! I am going to watch yard sales this summer and try a few thrift stores, but I think that I might have some competition for them because it seems as though EVERYONE is doing vegi gardens this year. I am happy to see it, but I kind of liked having all of these supplies to myself (it seemed like anyway).
A lot of people I know-even the ones at work seemed to be scared about the Economy and the World in general. In Massachusetts no less! Could it be that the DGI's are finally getting it?

[pcrowder]

I wish we lived close enough to places like Costco and Sams, but they are a 6 hr drive round trip! And, we live in wheat and corn country, and there really aren't any farmers markets. I stock up on canned goods when the local grocery stores have sales, but their prices are really really high to begin with, but I get what I can afford. I try to can up what is a seasonal or "loss leader" special whenever I can. Am going to SC in 10 days for sons Army Basic training graduation, but as soon as I get home, I'm gonna prep like our lives depend on it, because I think it will. I've got two 25# lard cans of seeds, so am going to start some of them this week in the spare room, and then more when I get home from SC. I think this year and next year will be crucial for storing away as much food as possible year round. I plan on relying very heavily on what I call my "Russian peasant garden" - potatoes, onions, beets, cabbage, carrots, kale and turnips, in addition to the normal tomatoes, cukes, peas, and green beans. We have no fruit trees, so all fruit I can/dehydrate will have to be purchased in season.

My first batch of chicks start hatching last night, so I need to get the brooder set up today. Then as soon as I get back from SC, I'm gonna have eggs going in all three incubators!

[CapeCMom]

I'm with you Pat on the Russian peasant garden thing. All of the things you listed store pretty well, and are also high on my list. I have no fruit trees either except a crabapple-and I don't think that is really a great fruit-except for may be making jam or something.
We do have wild blueberries around and I am going to actively pursue them this year to either freeze, or make pie filling to can. I am supposing you can do that. If they get mushy during the process, that's ok with me. It would still be a treat during hard times.

Tell your son Thank you for me-from one military Mom to another. Graduation is something to see-it brings a tear to your eye. They change so much during the weeks at basic.
God bless.

[pcrowder]

Oh, wild blueberries! CCM - I'm jealous! my mouth is watering now! yum! You can also dehydrate the blueberries or use them as homemade blueberry pancake syrup if the canned ones come out too mushy. We have wild sand plums around here, but it depends on the year and the moisture if they really do anything or not. Last year was a good year, but the 4 years before that it was just too dry. Other than that, there is nothing wild for foraging. I've tried making crabapple jelly before, but it required soooo much sugar it just wasn't worth it to me.

The nice thing about my "Russian peasant garden" is that it theoretically can be grown year-round, even here in Colorado. Those are all "root" crops, and do not require pollination from insects to "set" food (like tomatoes, peppers, melons, etc.) I figure next fall I'll start a second "winter" crop in used (empty) plastic mineral tubs up in the attic in front of the south-facing window. The mineral tubs are pretty deep, so I can grow full size carrots and beets in them and not worry about them being stunted, and they should hopefully be deep enough for new red potatoes and onions.
Our basement is humid enough that I can't easily store the potatoes and onions and other root crops down there. I've stored some of them upstairs in an unheated bedroom and they've kept awhile, but not for the whole winter. I desperately wish I had a real root cellar, but so far it's not been doable. I've been laying in alot of dry beans, red wheat, popcorn and other "staples" in big lard cans and popcorn tins. I desperately need to go get more when I get back. The closer this thing comes to a vote, the more nervous I'm getting.

I'll pass along your thanks to Matthew. He is at Victory Forge this week and won't be back from there until next Tuesday.

[Gracie]

Lee,

I thank you for the words of wisdom on stocking up. We're lucky to have a Sam's approx. 40 miles from us, so next time we're in the area will stop in. And your suggestion of bartering, I think that might be a really good option.

Much like Pat, I just sense now is the time to prepare and stock as much as possible, for what ever faces us all in the days to come.

I want to say, being able to cuss and discuss these issues with you all somehow makes it less intimidating and overwhelming.

Thanks,

Gracie

[pcrowder]

Didn't know if anyone had posted this before. I hadn't seen it, but maybe I missed it.


http://preparedldsfamily.blogspot.com/2009/03/more-pictures-of-food-storage-shelves.html

[pcrowder]

kinda has something for everyone.


http://www.survivalblogs.com/

[Travis]

New to preppping. I thank everybody for all the ideas here. Really like the idea of buying when on sale and when and what to buy to get the best buy.

[AlchemyAcres]

New to preppping. I thank everybody for all the ideas here. Really like the idea of buying when on sale and when and what to buy to get the best buy.


First and foremost....keep it simple!!!!!!!

I have no idea how the subject of this thread can possibly keep track of all the garbage they're calling 'preps'. It's definitely the 'consumer' approach!!!!

It's totally ludicrous!!!!


~Martin

[LeatherneckPA]

Don't feel like slogging through 80+ replies.
capecodmom thanks for the link. I found it interesting and informative.

[Gracie]

Pat,

Thanks for posting both sites, looked through both a bit, and think they both have good info. to offer, so bookmarked them both. I do like to go looking through sites like these; you see how others are stocking up, without being intrusive, and have found things that don't work exactly for us, but with some tweaking does....talk about a Ta-Da, moment! :yes4:

Gracie

[CapeCMom]

Martin,

That's the point of this thread, really. The Ultimate Prepper-love him or hate him? Think he's the greatest or just plain stupid? I think most of the votes here are for the latter. He's obviously way too dependent on his toys and can not face the "real" reality of a SHTF situation. He's trying-I'll give him that-but he has a lot of things to learn that's for sure.
All of us here know that simple is better-especially for a possible long term situation.
That is one scenario he obviously hasn't thought of. (but then we all prep for different things and reason, don't we?) I think beyond just a few months he is totally sunk-but that's just my opinion.

[pcrowder]

I posted the 2 links because one is fairly fast and easy to get through, the other has alot more links in it, but I figured it would have a little something to pick through for everyone, and it's good for those "rainy day" reads when it's too crappy to do anything outside, but gives us a chance to check things out in leisure.

I think, if nothing else, the Ultimate Prepper has shown us all what our personal priorities are, and how prepping is not one-size-fits-all, nor is the equivalent of planning for a week-long camping trip. For me, it was more of a critical eye to what was being done WRONG, and what would potentially damage/destroy/diminish his stores (rodents, gasoline stored next to food, no fence around his garden or property, etc). It also made me take hard look at my personal preps, and helped me to realize that in a couple of areas I still could do a little better (need alot more firewood and can always have more wheat on hand).

And, I'd like to thank CapeCmom because this truly has turned into an education experience for me. I have re-thought some of the preps I have stored in the basement (have a hot water heater and furnace down there, and isn't as dry as I need to use it for a root cellar), and decided to continue storing some of the things in the attic. Before this, I thought I would just move and store ALL of my preps down there (including some of the stuff I had in a spare room in the attic), but something in my head said "don't keep all your eggs in one basket", so to speak. If God forbid the hot water heater should leak when we aren't home, I could lose alot of stores. If I stored everything up in the 3 bedrooms in the attic, if God forbid there was a lightning strike or hail storm, I could lose everything if I stored it all up there. So, I am now splitting my stores between upstairs and downstairs, and that way if something bad happens, I'll at least still have half of them, and half is better than none.

And I'm like Gracie - I love to look at what others have done, and tweak it to fit my needs. I could look at prepping/storage sites all day long. But then, I'd NEVER get anything done!

But thanks again, capec - this thread has turned out to be a WONDERFUL learning experience!!!!!

[CapeCMom]

Thanks Pat!

I love to peek around too-I can't wait to delve into that second link that you provided. So many places to look to perhaps get some inspiration! It's always a good thing to learn new things! I am glad this has been a benefit to you.

The meek shall inherit the earth-gadgets don't count.

[Equilibrium]

I think this guy's gonna be toast once he runs out of "cat food" but what do I know.
--
Fantastic thread chalk full of great comments!!! Particularly these two comments:
"I think, like many of you have mentioned or inferred that he needs to put down the books and start practicing and getting his nifty toys dirty (not to mention find out which ones break after 5 minutes of play)."
--
"For me, that means to use the benefits of fossil fuels to position myself to not need fossil fuels, or at least, a minimum of them. For assuring my future, which could be without much purchased energy, I want manual means of doing it all, if possible."
--
Did anyone purchase the Fantastic Farm and Garden Calculator and actually use it? It seems awfully expensive to be forced to pay an annual fee to ensure access our own data, http://www.landshareco.org/tools/join/. The program has another limitation, the planting guidelines are geared toward Colorado. I wouldn't mind the fee if the calculator application was on my computer where I'd always have access to it but... it's not. I've been looking for such an application and have repeatedly come up empty handed. Does anyone have any suggestions?

[ArmySGT.]

I was personally fascinated by the spreadsheet that he did for his storage items. It is amazing and I might try it myself. I had been using an LDS spread sheet online but I ran out of categories and could not expand on what I had. It bummed me out because I thought it was a great tool. Guess it's time to start over and try something new.

Why not use the "save as" feature to make a copy you can edit for yourself?

[MtnChix]

I live in an extreme climate that is very hard to grow things. Growing season of 90 days, and the winds blow and the hail comes in August and wipes out a whole garden in an hour. YES, I do still garden, but not sure I could ever have one big enough for all our needs. A 60mile drive down the mountain gets me to small town with lots of small acreages selling produce each summer. That is where I go to get my tomatoes for canning, my peaches and apples for canning, stuff to make salsa, and fire roasted chile peppers to die for....

I grow green beans and beets for canning at home, and eat all summer type of stuff. I can grow Zuchs and trying some winter squash this year, though everyone says they need a longer growing season.

Want to get a dehydrator and do veges from Sams this summer, if all goes well.

All that to encourage people to look for outside sources as NC Lee said. Go to the small truck farms, find places around you that grow stuff and stock up from them. Be creative. Every place has something available close enough to get ahold of. Every place has something they are 'famous' for growing (I THINK????).

[ArmySGT.]

I got to page 2 and quit reading all the posts.

Don't have all the stuff? Don't be jealous. Better yourself and better your earnings. Better wages don't come to couch surfers.

There are more than 300 million Americans lets hope some of them prep to even this standard.

Or should we all line up for FEMA handouts?

Criticism is not the same as being critical. I am sure if any of you felt compelled to break OPSEC you would be ashamed at the way members of this forums tore your plans apart.

[S2man]

I was using this LDS Food Storage Calculator (http://lds.about.com/library/bl/faq/blcalculator.htm). You just plug in the number of adults and children and it gives a recommendation for amounts of food to store. Its very easy to look at their recommendation as see gaping holes in the food prep's.

But I got tired of returning to the website. So I recreated it in a spreadsheet. Then I added columns for stock on hand, so I could compare what we have to what they recommend. Then I added rows for dried, canned and frozen foods, which they had not included. I'd be happy to share it; just PM me.

Last time I took inventory, we had 6 months of food for the three of us. My goal is a year's worth of food for 5 people, as I'm sure someone would show up in a SHTF situation.

[Equilibrium]

"I am sure if any of you felt compelled to break OPSEC you would be ashamed at the way members of this forums tore your plans apart." Naaaa... that's what I like about this place... I get critiques so I can change direction before I screw something up.

[S2man]

I just read the entire thread and visited that guys web site. Wow. I have to agree with all the previous comments on his prep's. He's way off on his water needs calculations, counting in ounces instead of gallons.

His priorities do seem out of whack. Yeah, I've got night vision on my wish list, too. But its way down there, after building a green house and paying off the mortgage.

Concerning his bug out plans. He does mention taking out the back seat in the suburban, packing a prepared list of items, then filling the truck with everything they can, remembering to leave room for the passengers. The roof rack would be in addition to that. I'm not sure if he would fill it with food or gadgets, though. But it doesn't sound like bugging out is plan A.

I have a similar commute to his. And like him, I have an emergency kit in the car, along with extra clothes and hiking boots, should the roads be impassable. I can't think of anything short of an earthquake dropping all the bridges which would make me need to hoof it. But if need be, I'm prepared. Hiking 20 miles isn't so unthinkable.

Once home, its bug-in for us, with proper storage food and redundant manual tools. Solar will take care of our few battery needs.

OPSEC: I'd rather tell you all what I'm doing, than my neighbors.