Toxic Compost

[jason1911]

I sent this link to mom and she suggested I post it in the forum to make others aware.

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/wireStory%3Fid%3D10016696

Now, there is nothing wrong with using human waste as compost as long as it is 2 steps removed from human consumption. For example, you could use it to fertilize corn to feed to chickens chickens and eat the chickens safely, but wouldn't want to use the same compost on corn for grinding into corn meal for bread. As I understand it from some other articles on this subject, if you asked the city, they would tell you to only put it on non food plants. However, how many people do you think would actively question cheap or free compost, especially with the "organic" movement in full swing?
Many folks, especially those who may not have much experience in farming, may think that "compost" automatically means "organic" and safe. This is not necessarily the case. Even in home composting it is important not to use certain items, such as human waste and meat products, in compost for vegetable gardens.
The real problem I have with this scenario is that with the poor economy many people and even municipalities are trying to tighten their budgets. If a city can get people to take their waste for free, it saves them a lot of money from paying landfill and environmental fees, not to mention the transportation costs and labor. I know it's not supposed to happen, but we all know that some things end up in the waste water that shouldn't. A guy has a gallon of old antifreeze, a quart of oil, or maybe a can of paint stripper, and may think "Well, it's only a little bit. What can it hurt if I pour it down the drain?". I ma by no stretch of the imagination an "environmentalist", but all of this waste goes somewhere. And it's never just one person doing it. If compost is made from contaminated material, it will get into the soil and then into the food supply, where it builds up and eventually starts to cause problems. Anyone remember DDT? Same issue. This is on top of the problems associated with using human waste on food products.
The point of my extremely long-winded rant is this; Make sure you know what's in your fertilizers and compost. Just because it says "organic" doesn't mean it's safe.

[WileyCoyote]

Very true,Jason.
Actually, if you reallly wanted to stretch your definitions, a bag of 10-10-10 or Miracle-Gro is "organic" - because it is made ultimately from organic compounds. Strictly speaking, everything around you is 'organic' - because it was made here on earth from organic residue or combinations. Foxgloves are 'organic' digitalis - much more potent than what is in those little pills!

Different states have different definitions of 'organic' as well as different controls. I looked into running an organic greenhouse for starter plants in several different states. Idaho is VERY strict, they have inspectors come out to your place twice a year with a six-page, 8-point font questionnaire-checklist to certify you. South Carolina said, "You can put up whatever you want, and call it whatever you want - we won't ever inspect unless there is a complaint."

Needless to say, I am pretty cynical whenever someone claims something is "organic", "free-range" or "cage-free". Usually, it's all about interpretation and what they can get away with!

[tomato204]

The problem with sewage sludge is NOT the human waste, it will compost during the process at the plant. The problem is chemicals that people dump in the sewer lines that DON'T break down during treatment, they are only diluted. Paint thinner, auto fluids etc. How much of that do you want on your garden? Of course, without exact knowledge of what's in the mix and what level it sounds real scary to just list chemicals. Think about it, a breath of air in the city has a low level of many chems that you wouldn't choose to breathe in, but it's not fatal.

[bee_pipes]

You will find as many opinions about composting as there are people. Rodale, of the organic gardening movement, recommends against meat, dairy, and depending on th edate of print - for and against human waste. Joe Jenkins (http://weblife.org/humanure/default.html), whom I prefer to believe, is for anything going into the compost bins. He even goes so far as to show how toxic substances - such as lead - can be detoxifed over composting, though he DOES NOT recommend that be used in compost for gardening use. Human waste has been used for thousands of years as fertilizer. The danger in using it lies not in the fact that it has come from humans, but in not allowing it to complete composting and kill pathogens or parasites that may be found in it. The Chinese have traditionally used what they call "night soil" for fertilizer. Personally, I feel better when it has been cooked in a compost bin.

The city of Milwaukee has been marketing the output of the city sewer system for years under the name Milorganite. The labeled directions call for NOT using it on food crops. Again, personally, I would not use it because of the potential for heavy metals and other stuff that winds up in a municipal waste system. Add to that the fact that Americans are drug crazy and you have no idea of what sort of pharmaceuticals are winding up in the waste water of large population systems. Here we control what goes into our compost bin and I have confidence in what comes out of it.

The label organic can inspire false confidence. Nicotine sulphate is considered an organic pesticide, but it will kill you just as dead as any alphabet-soup concoction produced by Union Carbide or other chemical pesticide producers.

We follow Jenkins' recommendations. Compost is deposited in the bin for a year, allowed to season for a year, then used in the garden. Everything biodegradable goes into the bin - all kitchen waste, all other food and animal waste, yard waste, etc. The chicken house gets cleaned out twice a year - spring and fall - and really gets the pile cooking. We don't obsessively monitor the internal temperature, but we do frequently check, and I feel secure that it is cooking the contents. We do not dump things like paints, cleaning fluids, plastic, etc. into the compost.

We use compost, rabbit manure (the only thing we produce that con go directly into the garden) and mulch for top dressing. Old cardboard and newspaper is uded for weed shield. When we moved here the soil was poor and rocky. After a few years the garden soil has built up nicely to a depth sufficient to produce a happy garden (and deleriously happy weeds).

Regards,
Pat

[nhlivefreeordie]

Add to that the fact that Americans are drug crazy and you have no idea of what sort of pharmaceuticals are winding up in the waste water of large population systems. Here we control what goes into our compost bin and I have confidence in what comes out of it.



That is what concerns me most, you can only trust yourself anymore, because there is no such thing as workers pride in what they do for the biggest percentage of the population. The old saying, " Looks good from my house " is the way a lot of workers do their job.

[Grizzy]

I thought his page was interesting and on topic.

http://www.helpfulgardener.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=104814

Be Strong
~Grizzy~

[Grizzy]

Perhaps.. our greed, apathy, ignorance, and foolishness
have melted out common sense..
But who will say..
The Emperor has no clothes?

Big Thunder (Bedagi) Wabanaki Algonquin
The Great Spirit is in all things, he is in the air we breathe. The Great Spirit is our Father, but the Earth is our Mother. She nourishes us, that which we put into the ground she returns to us....

From Black Hawk, Sauk
"How smooth must be the language of the whites, when they can make right look like wrong, and wrong like right."

Be Strong
~Grizzy~

[nhlivefreeordie]

[CENTER]
Big Thunder (Bedagi) Wabanaki Algonquin
The Great Spirit is in all things, he is in the air we breathe. The Great Spirit is our Father, but the Earth is our Mother. She nourishes us, that which we put into the ground she returns to us....



Guess the great spirit dwelled more consistently in the Iroquois Federation, the Algonquins were defeated many times by the Iroquois.:wink:

[Grizzy]

I'm sorry.. I do not see how your words tie into mine.

~Grizzy~