Canada - Great neighbor and cheap land

[cabinman]

Anyone out there looking for some great opportunities to buy land cheap, *you might want to consider Canada. *I don't know about the western provinces but in the east there is an abundance of cheap land.

If I ever start over, (not out of the question the way taxes are getting here in NY) I'm going to purchase property in Canada.

I often travel to Ontario, New Brunswick and Nova Scotia. *I tend to avoid Quebec, but only because I don't speak french. *Land is a fraction of any place I've seen in the US and if you are able to purchase when the exchange rate is to your advantage you can do really well. * *I have several friends who own property in Canada. *Hunting camps and summer homes. *In most areas real estate taxes are low, (they make up for it in other areas) and other than the border issue it's not a big deal. *Many Canadians own property here and many Americans own property there. *

I think because it's a foreign country many people don't consider it but they should. *I'm going to!

[leera]

Before you take this idea too far,check into what it takes to become a permanent resident.US residents are often denied permanent residency in Canada.

Check into other taxation issues,fuel costs,food costs,general daily living cost,as well as your own income.

I know the land is cheap,and have thought about this myself,but for the cheap land,what's the catch?

[cabinman]

Yes, I understand. *Certainly some things are more expensive, but if you are looking to be fairly self sufficeint that mitigates a lot of that concern.

As for citizenship, I am not looking to become a Canadian citizen, although that is a possibility also. *The process takes about two years and is about $2,000 -$2,500 per applicant. *They don't take everyone and certain critera needs to be met. *The good thing is, *if one does go the citizenship route, *you do not lose US citizenship. *You in effect become a dual citizen, even though technically there is no such thing.

I would opt for crossing back into the states a couple of times a year. *Even though we in the US do not need a passport to enter Canada, at least not yet. *I would go ahead and get one and have it stamped so that everything is fully documented. *A US citizen can stay in Canada for up to 6 months at a time without any proplem. *Cross back over, visit family or whatever and then return. *Iknow of several folks who have been doing this. *There are some limitations, *but there are a number of web sites out there that explain the caveats in great detail as well as forums for folks doing or exploring this idea.
Your concerns are valid, but not a deal breaker in my opinion. *I have looked into this extensively and as I said know folks already doing this.

You in essence are buying a vacation home. *Although taxes in Canada are high on some things, property taxes are are almost nothing compared to what we in the northeastern US pay.

We are especially interested in Nova Scotia. *Many Americans, Germans and Brits own homes there because it's so inexpensive, easy and just straight up one of the most beautiful places in North America. *Property on the Ocean can be had for well under $100,000. *Similar poperty just back over the border in Maine would be untouchable.

[cabinman]

Some additional thoughts - Obviously the prospect of living outside the US is not something for everyone. *A lot of people would never do it for a million different reasons. *I understand that. Also everyone has different circumstances that will determine the feasability of such a move.

A young person planning to work is in an entirely different set of circumstances than a more established or retired person. *

Should I follow through on this, *I will keep my cabin in the states and still spend a lot of time there as my son and grandaughter will be living nearby.

My intention would be to wait until the exchange rate is looking advantageous, (it changes constantly so timing is critical) then pay cash for a place so I do not have to worry about financing and needing income sufficient to manage a mortgage.

I am a self employed artist as is my wife and I will soon have a military pension. *I own several properties that I will sell when and if the economy straightens itself out. *Although we are lucky here. *No real estate bust. *We never had a boom so we have no bust, but of course things are still grim out there. *We''ll have to see.

One property I currently am looking at is listed at $99,000 Canadian. At todays exchange rate that would be $80,173 US. The property has a house (Modest fixer upper) overlooking the ocean in southern Nova Scotia. *300' of rocky shoreline on just under three acres. *Plenty for my needs.

I could not even begin to think about ocean front property in the US. *In most part of the US you would be looking at close to $1,000,000 for any kind of ocean front property. *Way out of my league.

I also know of a number of artist friends who live in Mexico and really love it. *One friend lives in San Miguel de Allende and most of the community is American.

The Nova Scoti property is 16 hours by car from where I live. *Not exactly around the block , but many people in this area own homes in Florida which is quite a lot farther than that.

I'm going back up in the spring to continue my research.

[TSJ]

do you have any links to listings? thanks-TSJ

[cabinman]

Try this one - pick a province and a price range. *You can select what you are looking for land, residential etc. to narrow it down. *

http://www.mls.ca/map.aspx?AreaID=1052&SearchParam=#acr:false;ac:fal se;baths:0-0;beds:0-0;fp:false;gar:false;pmin:0;pmax:0;rmin:0;rmax:0;o penh:false;pool:false;stories:0-0;buildingstyle:;buildingtypeid:;viewtypeid:;water front:false;forsale:true;forrent:false;orderBy:A;s ortBy:1;mapZ:3;page:1;mapC:63.15435519659188,%20-91.75781250000001;curView:;

[cabinman]

My homesteading ambitions are more modest. I am looking for privacy, enough land to grow a decent garden and an ocean view to inspire my art work.

Someone looking for more land etc will find plenty. In Nova Scotia and New Brunswick farms, farmettes and large tracts of land are abundant. I have seen properties for under $10,000 convert that to US and you could buy a small piece of land for around $8,000. Lots of larger properties for $30,000 - $50,000 Canadian. You will be amayzed, but consider a land mass considerably larger than the US with I think less than 1/4 of the population, of course much of it too far north for but the hardiest of souls. Then again plenty have moved to Alaska to homestead. Just depends what you are looking for.

[TSJ]

I found this property listed near Massey, Ontario.

http://www.landandfarm.com/properties/deer_bear_moose_hunting_.asp

124 acres with 30 acres of it cropland. $57,900. Fairly close to Michigan. I'm not much for cold weather but oh lordy, the hunting and fishing!

[cabinman]

Nice find and at todays exchange rate that comes out to just under $47,000. *I don't know anywhere in the US where you can buy land for that kind of money. *Most places in Ontario and the Provinces I have been looking at have good water and plenty of it, *something that may become a huge issue in just a few short years in many parts of the US.

Obviously one of the down sides is the cold. *Canada is not the warmest place, *although some parts are fairly moderate. *Parts of Ontario are no worse and even milder than some of our northern states. *The Maritime provinces although north of us, *are more moderate temp wise than some of our northern states due to the gulf stream. *The area I'm especially interested in, *is very similar temp wise to where I live now. *Summers are a bit cooler and winters average a bit warmer in southern Nova Scotia compared to upstate NY. *Southern NS also gets much less snow than the Tug Hill region where I am now, not even close.

My two biggest issues that I'm still grappling with though are the weather. *Do I really want to go somewhere that is at best, *as cold as where I am now? *At this point in my life most anyone with a lick of sense is looking to go somewhere warmer. *I have looked extensively at the Carolinas but even with the down economy and real estate market it's way expensive compared to Nova Scotia. *Nova Scotia gets storms, *but they tend to be weakened significantly by the time they make their way that far up the coast. *The southern US has a history of getting hit pretty hard especially if you are along the coast. *Go inland and water looms as a real issue. *The drought the southeast has experienced the last several years has subsided some for now, but the long range trends are not promising. *Places like Florida where half my family now lives is too crowded for my taste and talk about water issues. *They face some big hurdles in the not too distant future in that regard.

The other concern I'm still dealing with is do I want to deal with keeping up two places? *My cabin in NY is paid for free and clear and as I long as I keep it off the grid the taxes are somewhat reasonable for this area. *(most anyone from other parts of the US might not think so) *But still taking care of two places as I get older is a concern. *

I think if I do this I'll have to make one my primary focus and view the other as a camp and work hard to minimize maintence as much as possible at both.

[cabinman]

Another point - As I just read in another post becareful with looking at land or any property on-line. Web sites are a great tool and you can cover a lot of ground and do a lot of research but nothing replaces looking at property first hand. I have seen a number of them on-line that looked wonderful only to be very disappointed when I actually walked the property.

The internet will give you a good clue though as to what is out there and general prices.

[Catalpa]

Other things to consider -
Canada has socialist medicine. I've heard where even doctor visits are hard to come by; in fact a lot of Canadians come to Michigan to get medical treatment.
Unless you go quite a ways north, the climate isn't that much different from Minnesota, Michigan, or New York.
Canada is very anti-gun. Folks from Michigan who go over for fly-in camps for hunting go through a lot of hassles getting their firearms across the border.
I know a gal from Maryland that married a Canadian. It took a couple of years to get her citizenship approved - along with lots of paperwork.
Cheaper land would be great, but there's a lot of other things that might out-weigh that factor.

[cabinman]

All Good Points - Again it depends what you want.

*I've heard a lot of different sides of the medical situation. *Our system here is pretty bad for the millions with no health insurance at all. *I have been self employed my entire adult life since leaving the Army. *Always made just enough to not qualify for Medicaid and yet not enough to afford private medical Insurance. *Thank God for the VA. *Then again if you do not have a service connected disability you better be dying if you want to see a specialist. *I routinely wait 6 months or more to see a doctor.*Not an issue for me.

Also medical would only be an issue if someone was imigrating and became a citizen. *Persons such as myself would not be eligible for the Canadian Health care system.

As far as guns go - I don't own guns, so again it's not an issue for me. *If you think Canada is socialist just wait until we get through the next few years here. *Scary where things are headed.

I'm not suggesting it's for everyone by any means but certainly an option for some :).

[cabinman]

http://www.mls.ca/propertyDetails.aspx?propertyId=7760386
http://www.mls.ca/propertyDetails.aspx?propertyId=7928730

These are pretty typical of the kind of listings available in eastern Canada. *These two happen to be on Prince Edward Island. *There are literally thousands of properties like these through out eastern Canada and the Maritimes. *Someone looking to be *a self sufficient homesteader could do very well for themselves. *A lot more bang for the buck!

[56farmerjohn]

Cabinman, thank you for the links and info . Canada would seem to be a place to consider for a potential homestead on a modest budget

[cabinman]

You are most welcome! Like I said in an earlier post in this thread. It is something that will not appeal to everyone, but does represent some interesting possibilities for some. Good Luck! :)

[Lobo]

Cabinman

Checked out your website and blog. Do you live there year around? appears quite remote and I live in a remote area with only snowshoe access in the winter.

Lobo

[cabinman]

Not yet. I live there during the summer and most of the spring and fall but not during the winter yet. I have to make an addition so there is room for an indoor kitchen. Right now I have to do all my cooking out side. Our winters here are too cold for that or at least for me to do that. And yes it's fairly remote.

You snowshoe in to your place. Interesting. Got any pics of your place to share?

[Phoenix2]

Cabinman, go for it!! (see the thread "It's never too late, you're never too old"). I did exactly that 10 years ago and have never regretted it at all.
I'm embarrassed to say how much I paid for 160 acres of forest and with the adjacent 160 owned by a buddy up there, we've got our own little nature preserve staked-out.
I don't live there permanently but did for several years ('76 to '82) and had permanent resident status. Don't anymore because as soon as I returned and got employment here I lost it. That's the law.
There's a lot of misunderstanding about owning land in Canada. In Ontario it's no different than buying land here except it's a lot more simple and cheaper.
The firearm issue mentioned by another poster is not really a problem. As long as it's a long-gun you just fill out a form and take it across. In fact, they give me a blank form each time so I can have it ready next time I cross. They may or may not check the serial number etc., each time; sometimes they do, sometimes not.
I take a 12 gauge shotgun with two barrels; a shot barrel and slug barrel and specify "for protection from wildlife" and have never had the least problem. Never had to use it but I feel more comfortable out in the middle of nowhere with some reasonable firepower handy; you never know when a renegade bigfoot might appear. If I can help at all with other info. just ask. P

[Lobo]

I keep asking friends with cameras to come take pics but no one comes to visit. I would like pics. My home is a bit more rustic than yours...it's a tipi style of army tent and I do live in it year around in NH. I woke up to 22 below outside and its 40 degrees inside.

Lobo

[cabinman]

Phoenix2 - Thanks for the encouragement. Found a great place, but plan to keep my cabin in NY. Hey It's long ago paid for and as long as I stay off the grid it's pretty reasonable to keep it. My ideal plan is to split my time between the two. Nova Scotia is my goal for at least a few months out of the year.

I am amayzed sometimes by peoples ideas about Canada. I wonder if they have ever been there?



Lobo - You are a brave soul. I could maybe tolerate it but I think the wife might not be too into it. Shes a good sport. Loves nothing more than to garden and be in the woods, even puts up pretty much with the mosquitos and black flies but winters are different. I will have to make it cozy for her to deal with it year round.

[Lobo]

Cabinman-This morning was 2 below zero outside and the wind was blowing but inside when I woke up to a burned down fire it was 45 degrees inside! I also have a half wolf half samoyed as a bed warmer.

As you are saying about people may not have been to Canada in order to judge it, I highly encourage you to give it a try and you and your significant other can be each others bed warmer.

Lobo

[cabinman]

2 below brrrrrrrrr! It was 10 above here. Still plenty cold. I used to have an Alaskan Husky. They do make good bed warmers.

[cabinman]

Lobo - I'd be curious to hear more about your "Tipi like " accomodations. Sounds interesting. Also what part of NH are you in? I used to kick around the Granite State some. I am originally from VT and spent a lot of time up around Conway and down around Claremont/Keene and Hanover along the Conn. River.

[Lobo]

Cabinman,

I'm in Meriden near Claremont and Lebanon. Ever travel back this way?

Since we are sort of getting off-post subject here, should move the Tipi discussion elsewhere? Otherwise what would you like to know?

Lobo

[cabinman]

Meridan - Sounds familiar. *I'm sure I knew the area but I left there in the late 70's. *Your right I guess I've strayed a bit off topic.

[Lobo]

Cabin Man-if you give me another way to contact you I will anser your tipi life questions.

Lobo

[cabinman]

In an effort to get back on topic here, (sorry about that side trip). People interested in buying land in Canada will also want to read the post by Phoenix2, Never too Old - Never too Late. He has a place in Canada and can dispell a lot of the myths that surround Americans buying property in Canada.

[austin]

interesting thread...
One thing to remember about Canada...or crossing the border to another country in general...is that entry is not gauranteed- whether you own land there or not. *Every time you go to re-enter, hypothetically you could be denied entry. *If the border gaurd has ANY suspicion that your ties to the US are not strong- or that you may be a threat of not returning, then your entry could be denied. *If your entry is ever denied- you could find a hard time entering again. * When I say your ties to the US...typically they want to know that you are employeed in the US, have a home there....etc. *Anyway- your points in favor or Canada are real- I just thought I would share one possible downside.

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/visit/apply-who.asp

[cabinman]

Your point is well taken. *I know that being denied entry or re-entry is always a possibilty, *but not one that would deter me. *There are towns just north of me where folks cross back and forth everyday. *Derby Line Vt has the border right through the middle of the town and people go back and forth several times a day sometimes, just not an issue for me at this point. *

The parts of Canada where I most often visit, (Ontario,New Brunswick and Nova Scotia) *the US tourist *$ represents a big part of their economy, *so they greet us with open arms. *It's when we come back that we are scutinized more. *The US has a much more strict border policy and for good reason.

Also, *like I said there are thousands of Candians who own property here in the states and I would guess thousands of US citizens who own property in Canada. *I'm just not that worried, of course world events could change and it might be a bigger issue in the future. *Pre 911, crossing back and forth the border was far less an issue than it is now, so I guess we never know. :)

[cabinman]

Although I am pretty well set on an ocean front peice of property on the south shore of Nova Scotia, (previously mentioned) I did just come across one in P.E. I. that I might have to take a look at. 46 acres, small house, nice barn and several out buildings for $39,900 CAD or about $30,000 Us at todays exchange rate. Hmmmmm!