FREE-Homestead Sharing.

[Bojingles]

Over the past few years, I've noticed that there is a growing concern over our future economic security, with more and more job losses, rise in the cost of living, and hardships upon so many 'real people' losing their homes in foreclosure.

Not to mention the sad feeling when one hears about those million dollar per month salaries of corp. CEO's while so many lay cold in the alley ways of every major city in our great 'brotherly' nation.. Yet we do see some 'good' coming forth, such as Extreme Home Make Over, on T.V. and a few other Life~helpers as seen with the assistance for disaster relief needs.

On and on with the tides of current realities, so I am wondering if we, as individuals, might be able to help one another too?

Are you interested in the possibilities of Freely sharing your land? skills? etc?

Are you open to the possibilities of being a good neighbor? helping one another with shared land? gardening? etc.?

Please feel free to share your thoughts, dreams, or whatever your ideals might be...

[kawalekm]

Share freely? No! We bought our land with the idea that it would be our retreat if times ever got bad. When we started developing the land into what we wanted it to be, we needed lots of help so we requested aid from friends. Some helped gladly, and others couldn't be bothered. I am grateful to those friends that lent a hand and have made it clear that there is a place for them here if there ever comes a time when it is needed. The others that couldn't be bothered? Well, I guess they can figure out they shouldn't even bother asking.

[Bojingles]

We are a retired, elder couple, kids long gone into the world with their families.
We're too remote for school services, yet close enough to town for work concerns. We enjoy gardening, making homemade breads etc. Woodworking, and building.
Also enjoy the wild life and peacefulness of the mountains here.
We have a couple of secluded area on the property, with utilities, to offer 'freely' to another backwoods couple who would appreciate the land here as we do.
If interested, please message us or post. Thank you kindly and God bless!

[otterbob]

Sharing Freely ? Or sharing within reason ?

I understand where Kawalekm is coming from !
I too have had help and rejection and as Kawalekm said, some are welcomed with open arms, some with a hand-shake, and some need not ask !

It has been my dream to create a community of like minded homesteaders but I have restrictions upon me and the land I live on called “Land use regulations”. If as some say the SHTF then there would be no one to enforce those regulations and many things will change. Until that time I will continue to try to create more of a retreat community that will allow some of the “participants” to learn and use my homesteading facilities.
I hate the term “Weekend-Homesteader” but until certain things change the people that do not have rural land or who live in the city will be restricted to being “Weekend-Homesteaders” without livestock.

Otter Bob

[Bojingles]

Good post Bob, and well understand what you mean, We are not so different, and share the same dream.
It is important for compatibility issues to be communicated prior to sharing ones property...and then, there's always a chance that someone might tell ya anything just to get moved into a community setting...
We've been burned a few times over the years, we still have faith in humanity though....and try not to become jaded.
Our land here is in a no restriction area, other than the normal land use codes which applies, we can have up to 4 families here on our property. Thus there is no problem with a small intentional community being here.
The "free"-homestead sharing, is just what it implies, "free"... no monthly $$$ or yearly lease or rent, it's "Cost-free"...the same as one would find within an intentional community.
We're past the major development stages and fairly settled into our home... [of course I'll always find something to build every year....simply because I love building..] though I can't work like I did when I was younger.. and lets face it....when we leave this world, we certainly can't take a U-Haul with us... So the property here will be left for community use.... for those living upon and caring for the place here..
We are spiritual minded too, thus call this Our Fathers' Place... If we didn't live out so remotely, we'd probably set up a soup kitchen for our way of serving in life..
I know that everyone thinks differently, and with respect to others views... We will share and care as we can in this life, and our aim is not towards self gain... If that makes any sense...:-}
I'm sure there's some things that perhaps that we haven't thought off, as we've never put together a community before...and am certainly glad to listen to others views too... Thank you kindly, and God bless!

[sbemt456]

Good luck with your endeavor Bojingles and welcome.
I have a 100 acre farm here that has been in the family for 4 generations. In the past month I have had 3 different families ask if I could rent them a spot to plant a garden. I do have a 5 acre river bottom that is great for gardening, that is where we always raise ours. I had given some thought to renting plots for gardens for a set fee. But I am not sure yet how to limit chemicals that people might want to use. I really would like it to be organic. Would also like to find someone here in our area that would want to put bee hives in the field.
May provide me with a little income and maybe honey and most of all give some who have the "want to garden but no land" dilemma a chance to help themselves. I guess my biggest drawback is I would lose a lot of my privacy.
Any ideas appreciated.

Have a blessed New Year!

stella

[otterbob]

So the property here will be left for community use.... for those living upon and caring for the place here.


How do you plan to do this ?
Land trust , Maybe?

I would like to leave this property for use by family and friends but the property cannot be divided and "Tenants in common" would grant ownership to only those listed and "Owners" my not agree with the use I have layed out.

Suggestions ?

Otter Bob

[Bojingles]

Good point Stella, about the offering of garden spots, as it would provide means for others to brush up their growing skills.. There are several farms out west here, that provides the produce for those road side stands and farmers markets... Some other farmers will simple sell there goods right out of the field...[where the people go to pick their own choice foods, and pays by the pound for it... Then there's always the farmers co-ops, where several folk will pool their money together for a "picker" to travel to the field and pick out a variety of goods from their generated co-op shopping list... Your idea of renting the garden spot area is supportive to the needs of others too....
There's a book entitled "Seed to Seed"...and is quite helpful with the instructions on how to produce your next years seeds from your garden veggies etc., it also covers the care of the soil....
Or if you had a tiller, ya could also offer a package deal for garden plots? Just some thoughts...:-}
________________________________
Hello Bob, As for a land trust, it's not a complicated matter in our case, as our daughter would manage the property and see to it that the land taxes were paid each year... She is quit supportive towards the community ideals too.. thus it's just a matter of provisions outlined in our Will...but personally, we have alot of good years ahead of us yet... [we're old folk...but not antiques quite yet! :-}

[LeatherneckPA]

Stella, I should think that an attorney could easily write you up a rental agreement that dictates "no use of chemicals" and "organic practices only". I'd be surprised if there were any shortage of persons more than happy to know their food wouldn't be contaminated by "overspray" from their neighbor's plot.

[sbemt456]

Thanks for the ideas. As a matter of fact we would do the plowing of the ground initially and we do have 2 rototillers here on the farm that we have considered for rent by the hour or something. In the area we live in here a lot of farms have Johnson grass which I do not on any circumstance want accidently spread on my farm so that would be the reason for only allowing use of the equipment that is already here. Sort of prevention if you will. We are far enough away from everyone that there would be no danger of spray contamination of any kind, which is good for us as well. No chemicals have been used for 10 years or more on the farm other than organics, another plus.
I have one other concern, we raise as much heirloom veggies as possible, how far would I need to keep my personal garden away from the rental plots to prevent cross pollination? I insist on saving my seeds when humanly possible.
Just thinking this might provide a few extra dollars for us to make more improvements on the farm in the long term, such as a few fruit trees, strawberries for "u-pick", maybe later have enough to build pens for livestock, ie; maybe pigs, where you buy pig here and butcher here for a reasonable price. Again not looking to make a big profit but if my veggies and meat are at 0$ due to income produced then I would be happy. Just break even.
Keep the ideas coming, all help appreciated and I am listening. :)

Have a great day!

stella

[CarolAnn]

I kind of like the idea too - and I've had a little experience with dealing sharing my place with people . . .

I had a homestead in the Ozarks. *My brothers helped us build the house (I was married then) - but a few times we had to leave and go get work elsewhere in order to keep it, so we looked for caretakers - someone to live there free, but who would take care of our home. *

We met one guy who was a divorced dad who wanted to be near his kids - and he was a fabulous caretaker and a good person who made sure he gave more than he got. He actually built a pole barn on the property!

Another time, after I was divorced, I had a couple of different women stay there while I went away to work - and while one was OK, the other just wouldn't go when it was time for me to come back. (She finally did, but it was a trial for both of us - she was a nice enough lady, but when she could live there free, she didn't want to go back to paying rent somewhere!) It COULD have gotten nasty.

Then I had a truly evil person stay there; *he trashed the place, gave away MY things (or stole them) and it was a total sickening experience. It was my first experience with a sociopathic taker & I don't care to repeat it. (And if he's ever standing behind my car, I pray for the strength to keep from backing over him five or six times!) :P

So first and foremost, there has to be equity. People that get something free often don't respect it or the giver -- *and if their self respect allows them to accept charity, they probably won't have respect for you or your land either. Forget gratitude - they'll be more likely to despise you than to be thankful for your generosity.

If you share a garden space or land, be sure to have some sort of payment or contract for part of the produce. Good people will appreciate that they are not getting charity, and be more likely to respect you and your land.

[BadKarma]

I personally like the idea of a community of like minded folks. As long as everyone shares the load of the community, I think it would be ideal. But you have to REALLY trust the people in the community. And another thing is how do you divide the work? Say for instance, elderly people in your community might not be able to do a lot of the hard physical labor, but they could still have a lot to contribute, as far as knowledge and skills. Or what about people with disabilities? Could you, or would you, turn these people out because they can't dig a well? But at the same time, it would not be so fair to have only 1 or 2 people doing all the actual work, either.

I think an ideal community would have to be carefully thought out and planned thoroughly where everything could be shared on an equal basis. I think one of the biggest hurtles would be to get past the "GREED" factor.

[DavidOH]

"Freely sharing your land? skills? etc?"

BTDT! That's why I come here!

I like finding and sharing information here on the internet.
I've researched many things for folks here.
Gave away some seeds, and may do that again.
So many have shared here that I enjoy giving, even if I get nothing.
I'm still hoping that when I find a place further out and start building, that others can help me with their know how and experience.

This is a small community here, and I like it. :)

[Magnificent_Madame]

Are you interested in the possibilities of Freely sharing your land? skills? etc?

I don't have land yet, but love both learning skills and teaching them.

Are you open to the possibilities of being a good neighbor? helping one another with shared land? gardening? etc.?

Absolutely. I figure the ideal to strive for is to help each other out.

[Suverans2]

Greetings Bojingles!

We are wondering where your 'Father's Place' is located. It sounds like a little piece of Heaven. :)

[silvergramma]

hi there,,its funny you should mention that,, i cant remember where i read this but it was said that find someone within a certain radius of your place and see if you can network skills or trade for barter with them..for instance find an herbalist .. someone who know animal husbandry ,, a gardener,, bee keeper ect.. learn from them and keep a small network around you not too many .. otherwise too many people know whats goin on and will take advantage you could lose everything
I have a friend right down the road here that iskeeping my horses for me till i can get all the fence posts in the ground,, she does animal therapy and training...

[silvergramma]

anyways she is teaching me a lot ..and i in turn do babysitting for her and pitch in with feed costs for her dog, cats and some grain for her mare...
she has a lot of acreage and more than i have access to so we know there will be plenty of hunting and foraging to do later on in the season...its good to have moral support from a neighbor even ifyour family thinks you're nuts... yes i have a friend with two daughters that plan on coming up to survive,, she went through katrina and after i moved up a year before it hit she realized she had been left behind,, we both have the same dream of a cabin in the woods so i am still planning on having her and the two girls here.. i believe the women will be doing a lot of the nuturing for the next generation of survivors and even those skills will be needed in the long run

[thedford]

I was thinking along the same lines as CarolAnn. I have about 150 acres of land in Missouri that I dont live on yet but plan to in 5 or 6 years. I might think about about a care taker to live for free, because I would like to get an orchard started, garden dug and wildlife feeders filled. I can only get there a few times a year and would need someone to water the orchard until it is established. I would also like to bring some things down there with out worrying about them being stolen. It would be very hard to trust someone though.

[Anon001]

Bojingles......back to your question about FREE homestead sharing....you bet....

Face it...I am a 47 almost 48 year old bachelor with no intentions of changing it.... What will I do with my land and home? Who will see to it? I would definitely allow someone to live here, build a cabin, outbuildings, have their own homestead... I would contract it so that over time, they accrued ownership so that by the time I'm gone, they own it outright unless I go soon and then at that point, it would become theirs. FREE? yes... but they have to live here and help me and look after me as I get older and need more help.... but, finding anyone interested has been the hard part.

PaulNKS

[Lobo]

Hello all,

I have been financially unable to achieve my homesteading dream of owning land so I relied on my Native belief that I don't own the land and have been moving around New England as a caretaker sometimes on raw land to open it for future homesteading in exchange for free rent. If I have the capability of having an outside job I offer to pitch in on the taxes.

I get to see other areas, make friends and learn survival in different locales. I hope to someday fit in on the right place for longer term.

I am emailing a person in northern ME who has land but is too busy with work to get it started toward homesteading into a community so that will be my job.

We all know that homesteading is low income and we should try to help all even though sometimes we get burned. There are more good people than bad. We can all learn from each others skills.

Lobo

[kram]

i have ben wonting to homested for a few years now but have never had the mony to start ..i am tired of the city, can aney one give som advise on what i can do?? i have a lot of skils. and offer them freely.

[Anon001]

Kram,
Where are you willing to go or not go for such an opportunity?

You can PM me or email me if you would like.

[cry_freedom]

One aspect of this that has always fascinated me is the kibutz (sp) and also the self-sufficient commune in rural Wales. It would be an interesting concept to investigate. Certainly a communal group would stand a better chance of purchasing a large tract of land, working it and building homes on it.

[Anon001]

But,.. with a commune, you give up an awful lot... freedom, independence, privacy, ownership..... etc.

[mdbchris]

Share as long as it won't take away from what we need to maintain ourselves and our children. And with how people are behaving already and the worst is not yet here, it would depend a lot on who we were helping so they didn't go and rob us later or tell the "neighboorhood" causing harm to our family. There is just so much at stake and sorry my children come first. We do the work and take the steps necessary well then.....not to be cruel!

[Oblio13]

I bend over backwards to help out my neighbors, and some of them reciprocate. We have a few close friends and relatives that would be welcome here indefinitely if they fell on hard times.

But as a general rule, I think that inviting others to share your land and labors is an invitation for parasitism. Commune arrangements usually start with the best and most noble intentions, and generally end in disappointment when someone is dishonest, lazy or disruptive.

I try to be easy-going and to live simply and to help others, but the bottom line, when the rubber meets the road, when it comes to brass tacks, when the artillery lifts and the infantry starts to walk, is that I want things done my way. I worked hard to purchase our property, clear the land, build the house, plant the orchard and maintain everything, and it's not a democracy.

[flatwater]

Oblio13 , Well said and the truth. I think one can have a commune experience by helping your niehbors but in the end you have a place you call your own. Most your socialist countries like the communes but darnit I'm an american and an independent cuss and we have fought hard to keep our freedoms and one of them is to have your own place.

[Lobo]

I traveled all over northern New England trying to find the perfect place and finally settled in the neighboring town to where I grew up! Four people own the place and there are 3 others of us with our special helpful abilities. One keeps the farm vehicles running, another has carpentry skills and my skill of gardening and animal husbandry. So far it is all working well.

Lobo

[tomato204]

I would consider sharing my place for a definite period, like a year. I'm a very-experienced homesteader but getting a little "long in the tooth", if you know what I mean. I still cut and split my own wood etc, but could use a little help with other things on occasion. A free spot to tent-camp and free hunting/trapping/garden spot might be available to the right person. I garden in raised beds for the most part, so compost and garden learning comes free in the deal. PM me if interested. Southern Missouri, zone 6.

[Anon001]

I would consider sharing my place for a definite period, like a year. I'm a very-experienced homesteader but getting a little "long in the tooth", if you know what I mean. I still cut and split my own wood etc, but could use a little help with other things on occasion. A free spot to tent-camp and free hunting/trapping/garden spot might be available to the right person. I garden in raised beds for the most part, so compost and garden learning comes free in the deal. PM me if interested. Southern Missouri, zone 6.

Personally speaking..

I would definitely consider something similar to what you offer. I could always use the extra help.

[momma_to_seven_chi]

Are you interested in the possibilities of Freely sharing your land? skills? etc?

Are you open to the possibilities of being a good neighbor? helping one another with shared land? gardening? etc.?




Many people are beginning to have "classes" on homesteading topics like sewing, canning, caring for livestock, making soap, bees, etc. I will put a link below to one homeschooling family who does that. They are "reformed" brethren, so the clothing is a bit conservative compared to most people. But skill teaching is a big thing. My friend just had a bread making class a while back for $3 a person.

http://shepherdshillhomemaking.home.mindspring.com/index.html

[tomato204]

Paulnks~ I would like to have a little help, since it's a new place and a lot needs to be done. I just want to have the understanding that the deal will have an ending date. This would allow a wanna-be homesteader to learn while they plan their own future, and save by not paying rent in the mean time. There are no commercial utilities and so no bills. The person would need a 4-wheel drive vehicle and would have to make one trip to town for me each month (16 miles). I don't have any idea I'll actually find such a person, but the idea is out there...
What usually happens is I have to hire a guy to haul (for instance) 2 rain-barrels and pay more for delivery than for the barrels!

[Anon001]

tomato,

I agree with you. I would do it the same with no rent and no utilities, since I'm off grid.

I would also consider it from someone needing a start that would help. With a contract, over time they would get a certain percentage that would only be transferred to them at the time of my death, or if I get to the point that I can't maintain the place... something like that. I also figured that at the time of my death, they would inherit the whole thing debt free. BUT, I've never had anyone take me up on it.

[gregabob]

I've thought of doin somethin like this after I get my house sold and get a trailer---caretaking or doin work on a farm in exchange for a spot to stay for a while. Getting some experience would be a major benefit to me, and someone would get some help around the place. Being a Diesel mechanic I'd be able to do maintenance on equipment too. Hopefully next year I'll be in a position to start this adventure!

[bookwormom]

Paul, I was just going to ask if anyone ever took you up on it. I am surprised none called you up on it. this can work very well.
We had neighbors in germany down the road a bit who had a farm and no kids. they found a young family and it has worked out extremely well. the old lady died, When he got so he could not get around much, all the neighbors noticed how well he was taken care of. The little kids called him Grampa Hans and were the joy of his old age. You know how it is in a small community where everyone knows everybody else and their business. I only heard good things . He advertised in a farming magazine.

[Anon001]

Bookwormom,

I, too, have been sorta surprised that no one has even asked about it. But, I'm to a point that I MUST have help but it would be nice. Things do run smoothly enough that it wouldn't take full time help. But, they could stay busy full- time if they so choose. lol.

I just thought it would be nice to enlarge the garden, share the work, share in the canning, etc. Help working calves each year, sorting, loading, hauling, etc. And.... of course, fence work which seems to be an ongoing job.

I think it would be a good deal if someone wanted to be off-grid, gain experience, and work into ownership.

Maybe next year I'll advertise in a magazine or something.

Paul

[tomato204]

Well, in my case the help I would need would be half a day, 2 or 3 days a month. You could work an outside job easily, or not.

[Anon001]

I made a typo in my comment. I mean to say that I'm not where I must have help, but it would be nice.

[tomato204]

Paul, I wondered if that's what you meant. I know when _I_ reach that point where I'm old and feeble, I won't advertise it on the 'net! LOL.

[whtdragn]

Has anyone considered that in these cities that have so many blocks of empty houses that they should bulldoze the whole area and turn it over to community gardens. Let people learn how to work the land again.

Just fanciful but I think people need to get back to knowing where and how there food gets to them and what it takes.

[fredfl]

I have been toying with the idea of buying some rural property in the mid atlantic states or midwest and having someone live on it while I am not there.(would probably spend part of the summer there) We live in Fl and enjoy the retirement community we live in here but I really miss my gardening and owning a piece of rural property would be a good shtf investment if nothing else. I've tried to get my kids intersted but they don't want to move from NH and I don't want to own property there. Finding someone trustworthy is scary especially when I wouldn't be there to keep an eye on things. I had an orchard and large garden in NH when I lived there so have a lot of experience but can't do as much physically as I used to. Would be interested in hearing others thoughts on the idea.

[roolu]

Bookwormom,

I, too, have been sorta surprised that no one has even asked about it. But, I'm to a point that I MUST have help but it would be nice. Things do run smoothly enough that it wouldn't take full time help. But, they could stay busy full- time if they so choose. lol.

I just thought it would be nice to enlarge the garden, share the work, share in the canning, etc. Help working calves each year, sorting, loading, hauling, etc. And.... of course, fence work which seems to be an ongoing job.

I think it would be a good deal if someone wanted to be off-grid, gain experience, and work into ownership.

Maybe next year I'll advertise in a magazine or something.

Paul

This is the kind of thing I'm looking for. I may be interested if you're serious. PM me.

[Jamie]

Paul,
Hello again! I may know of someone willing to take you up on your offer. good people, hard working, willing to learn. I am calling them this morning and may PM you later.



PS, I'd take you up on this myself but with our 9th child on the way... it may be too much for you! LOL Maybe I could buy your other homestead, did you ever sell that?

Jamie

[Anon001]

Thanks y'all.

No I didn't sell the other. I decided to keep it for awhile. It is 22 miles from me, so I rented it to the neighbor. It's at least covering the taxes, insurance, etc.

PM if interested.

NINE CHILDREN!??!?!?? Dang. You been a busy! LOL.. I was one of seven boys.

Paul

[Jamie]

Paul,

Good for you for renting your place. At least your covering your costs. Yes, I remember you said before you came from 7 boys. 9 sounds like alot but really it doesn't feel like that many. I talked with my friend, she is going to talk to her husband about it and will let me know.

I really think its a wonderful offer for someone, just be sure to make sure they are trustworthy. You never know today.

Have a great day!!

Jamie

[Elvish]

For the past several years, I've been trading a place to live for work on someone else's property. My most recent deal blew up on me about 6 weeks ago, and I'm currently 10 days away from being homeless!

I'm one of those people who has never been married, had any practical family connections, or any "support". Every other member of my family has had property, marriage, family, and children. I've been at the end of the line for just about everything in my life. It's not a "pity party", just a realistic examination of my personal history. Added to that, I've made a "career" out of a wide variety of jobs, so my "skillset" is much broader than nearly anyone.
Ironically, I have the skills, but no place to exercise them, at present. I have 2 goats, 10 chickens, a truck full of tools, and a woodstove with all of the piping, along with a cord-and-a-half of seasoned wood. ... but, no place to go to use any of it!

--> Here is my "rant" regarding some of the comments that people have made in this thread::meeting:

It's no secret that this society is totally based upon MONEY. Money = power, and vice-versa. Money allows the purchase of possessions/things, so money (also) = Status! More money means more status, more popularity, more fame, more power, more influence, and just plain MORE!

Possessions are hard won. Life energy is converted into TIME, which is converted in to money (in the form of a paycheck), which is converted into possessions. The money is so important that the possessions are coveted. The bigger the possession, the more that it's value is based on the simple acquisition of it. For instance, LAND.
If you are fortunate enough, or have somehow managed to "own" land, then chances are 2 things are true:
1. You have become convinced that you really DO "own" the land. (which you don't, even if there is no mortgage!)
2. You aren't really using the land.

This last point is very important.

The indigenous people's of this planet don't "own" land, and never did. The "Native Americans" and most indigenous people don't even have a word for ownership of land. So, any land that is purchased was STOLEN from these people, and this stolen property is now traded openly. Once land was stolen from the indigenous peoples of this planet, it became a possession. Native people - who didn't "own land" - were true custodians or stewards of the land. They roamed around from place to place, never staying long enough to make much of an (environmental) impact.

When the "white man" took over and began to "sell land", it became a possession, like a couch or an automobile. He used it. He kept other people away from it. He coveted it. He created waste from it, on it, and buried waste IN it! The "private property" land became a kind of toilet. Non-"sustainable" practices used up the fertility of the land, so it was eventually sold to people who would rape it's insides (miners) or bury it (with concrete sidewalks or asphalt pavement), once the outside (topsoil) was depleted by (mis-)use.

The overriding philosophy of indigenous people is that, if you aren't using something, you shouldn't (be allowed to) keep it. (which spawned the phrase "Indian Giving"!) Yet, this idea is the opposite of a possession as coveted object. In the current, and past, "Western" society, simply owning an object or piece of property entitled you to use it, abuse it, or simply neglect it - you could do with it whatever you liked, because it was "yours". Drive around less affluent neighborhoods and notice how much "crap" (neglected or excessive possessions) are laying all around the property. See how unnatural that is?!
Possessions make/turn people into jealous gods. Money is the means of this transformation.

The rapid evolution of Consciousness (and typified by current economic an political pressures) parallels both the NEED and the IMPORTANCE of "Simplicity". When people stop treating the world like a giant shopping mall, possessions become less important, or not important at all, and simplicity is exalted.

The old consciousness has been about working hard(-er) to acquire more and more things. The NEW consciousness is about sharing what you have, and others (your community) sharing with YOU! Each of us has practical contributions to make - some people know how to sew, some know how to build things, etc. No one can do everything. This is where sharing becomes both practical and necessary.

To those who are hoarding or squandering property ... Stop living in the past! There is no "American Dream", and more and more people (like ME!) are becoming homeless while others sit on perfectly usable (rural) property that they have some fantasies about doing something with in some equally distant future. It's all nonsense - there is NO FUTURE, there is only NOW!!


--- P

[MooseToo]

For the past several years, I've been trading a place to live for work on someone else's property. My most recent deal blew up on me about 6 weeks ago, and I'm currently 10 days away from being homeless!

I'm one of those people who has never been married, had any practical family connections, or any "support". Every other member of my family has had property, marriage, family, and children. I've been at the end of the line for just about everything in my life. It's not a "pity party", just a realistic examination of my personal history. Added to that, I've made a "career" out of a wide variety of jobs, so my "skillset" is much broader than nearly anyone.
Ironically, I have the skills, but no place to exercise them, at present. I have 2 goats, 10 chickens, a truck full of tools, and a woodstove with all of the piping, along with a cord-and-a-half of seasoned wood. ... but, no place to go to use any of it!

--> Here is my "rant" regarding some of the comments that people have made in this thread::meeting:

It's no secret that this society is totally based upon MONEY. Money = power, and vice-versa. Money allows the purchase of possessions/things, so money (also) = Status! More money means more status, more popularity, more fame, more power, more influence, and just plain MORE!

Possessions are hard won. Life energy is converted into TIME, which is converted in to money (in the form of a paycheck), which is converted into possessions. The money is so important that the possessions are coveted. The bigger the possession, the more that it's value is based on the simple acquisition of it. For instance, LAND.
If you are fortunate enough, or have somehow managed to "own" land, then chances are 2 things are true:
1. You have become convinced that you really DO "own" the land. (which you don't, even if there is no mortgage!)
2. You aren't really using the land.

This last point is very important.

The indigenous people's of this planet don't "own" land, and never did. The "Native Americans" and most indigenous people don't even have a word for ownership of land. So, any land that is purchased was STOLEN from these people, and this stolen property is now traded openly. Once land was stolen from the indigenous peoples of this planet, it became a possession. Native people - who didn't "own land" - were true custodians or stewards of the land. They roamed around from place to place, never staying long enough to make much of an (environmental) impact.

When the "white man" took over and began to "sell land", it became a possession, like a couch or an automobile. He used it. He kept other people away from it. He coveted it. He created waste from it, on it, and buried waste IN it! The "private property" land became a kind of toilet. Non-"sustainable" practices used up the fertility of the land, so it was eventually sold to people who would rape it's insides (miners) or bury it (with concrete sidewalks or asphalt pavement), once the outside (topsoil) was depleted by (mis-)use.

The overriding philosophy of indigenous people is that, if you aren't using something, you shouldn't (be allowed to) keep it. (which spawned the phrase "Indian Giving"!) Yet, this idea is the opposite of a possession as coveted object. In the current, and past, "Western" society, simply owning an object or piece of property entitled you to use it, abuse it, or simply neglect it - you could do with it whatever you liked, because it was "yours". Drive around less affluent neighborhoods and notice how much "crap" (neglected or excessive possessions) are laying all around the property. See how unnatural that is?!
Possessions make/turn people into jealous gods. Money is the means of this transformation.

The rapid evolution of Consciousness (and typified by current economic an political pressures) parallels both the NEED and the IMPORTANCE of "Simplicity". When people stop treating the world like a giant shopping mall, possessions become less important, or not important at all, and simplicity is exalted.

The old consciousness has been about working hard(-er) to acquire more and more things. The NEW consciousness is about sharing what you have, and others (your community) sharing with YOU! Each of us has practical contributions to make - some people know how to sew, some know how to build things, etc. No one can do everything. This is where sharing becomes both practical and necessary.

To those who are hoarding or squandering property ... Stop living in the past! There is no "American Dream", and more and more people (like ME!) are becoming homeless while others sit on perfectly usable (rural) property that they have some fantasies about doing something with in some equally distant future. It's all nonsense - there is NO FUTURE, there is only NOW!!


--- P

yeah - quite a few years ago, there was a guy who shared MANY of your opinions - went by the name of karl marx -

[Paddy]

The indigenous people's of this planet don't "own" land, and never did. The "Native Americans" and most indigenous people don't even have a word for ownership of land. So, any land that is purchased was STOLEN from these people, and this stolen property is now traded openly. Once land was stolen from the indigenous peoples of this planet, it became a possession. Native people - who didn't "own land" - were true custodians or stewards of the land. They roamed around from place to place, never staying long enough to make much of an (environmental) impact.


(laughing)

Wow. Thanks for the comic relief. I needed some today.

[nhlivefreeordie]

For the past several years, I've been trading a place to live for work on someone else's property. My most recent deal blew up on me about 6 weeks ago, and I'm currently 10 days away from being homeless!



--> Here is my "rant" regarding some of the comments that people have made in this thread::meeting:

It's no secret that this society is totally based upon MONEY. Money = power, and vice-versa. Money allows the purchase of possessions/things, so money (also) = Status! More money means more status, more popularity, more fame, more power, more influence, and just plain MORE!

Possessions are hard won. Life energy is converted into TIME, which is converted in to money (in the form of a paycheck), which is converted into possessions. The money is so important that the possessions are coveted. The bigger the possession, the more that it's value is based on the simple acquisition of it. For instance, LAND.
If you are fortunate enough, or have somehow managed to "own" land, then chances are 2 things are true:
1. You have become convinced that you really DO "own" the land. (which you don't, even if there is no mortgage!)
2. You aren't really using the land.

This last point is very important.

The indigenous people's of this planet don't "own" land, and never did. The "Native Americans" and most indigenous people don't even have a word for ownership of land. So, any land that is purchased was STOLEN from these people, and this stolen property is now traded openly. Once land was stolen from the indigenous peoples of this planet, it became a possession. Native people - who didn't "own land" - were true custodians or stewards of the land. They roamed around from place to place, never staying long enough to make much of an (environmental) impact.

When the "white man" took over and began to "sell land", it became a possession, like a couch or an automobile. He used it. He kept other people away from it. He coveted it. He created waste from it, on it, and buried waste IN it! The "private property" land became a kind of toilet. Non-"sustainable" practices used up the fertility of the land, so it was eventually sold to people who would rape it's insides (miners) or bury it (with concrete sidewalks or asphalt pavement), once the outside (topsoil) was depleted by (mis-)use.

The overriding philosophy of indigenous people is that, if you aren't using something, you shouldn't (be allowed to) keep it. (which spawned the phrase "Indian Giving"!) Yet, this idea is the opposite of a possession as coveted object. In the current, and past, "Western" society, simply owning an object or piece of property entitled you to use it, abuse it, or simply neglect it - you could do with it whatever you liked, because it was "yours". Drive around less affluent neighborhoods and notice how much "crap" (neglected or excessive possessions) are laying all around the property. See how unnatural that is?!
Possessions make/turn people into jealous gods. Money is the means of this transformation.

The rapid evolution of Consciousness (and typified by current economic an political pressures) parallels both the NEED and the IMPORTANCE of "Simplicity". When people stop treating the world like a giant shopping mall, possessions become less important, or not important at all, and simplicity is exalted.

The old consciousness has been about working hard(-er) to acquire more and more things. The NEW consciousness is about sharing what you have, and others (your community) sharing with YOU! Each of us has practical contributions to make - some people know how to sew, some know how to build things, etc. No one can do everything. This is where sharing becomes both practical and necessary.

To those who are hoarding or squandering property ... Stop living in the past! There is no "American Dream", and more and more people (like ME!) are becoming homeless while others sit on perfectly usable (rural) property that they have some fantasies about doing something with in some equally distant future. It's all nonsense - there is NO FUTURE, there is only NOW!!


--- P

This attitude is quite probably the reason you are about to be homeless. I hope for your sake you find shelter, but it won't be on MY land. No one here is just fortunate to have land, I would bet every single person worked and sacrificed for it, you should give it a try.

[AlchemyAcres]

Yeah...the Natives were never territorial.
They shared equally with others! :fie:
The Iroquois didn't chase the Algonquins into starvation and exile in Quebec!
That was just a big lie!
It was all smiles, hugs, kisses and high fives!!!
<sarcasm off>
I know better, I've had a close relationship with a very special Algonquin and family for many years!!!!
Kitigan Zibi Anishinabeg!


~Martin

[nhlivefreeordie]

Yeah...the Natives were never territorial.
They shared equally with others! :fie:
The Iroquois didn't chase the Algonquins into starvation and exile in Quebec!
That was just a big lie!
It was all smiles, hugs, kisses and high fives!!!
<sarcasm off>
I know better, I've had a close relationship with a very special Algonquin and family for many years!!!!
Kitigan Zibi Anishinabeg!


~Martin

And wouldn't you know it, blood from both mom and dad was mixed with Mohegans, grandfather on my dads side 1/2 breed. Mohegans of course are Iroquois.

[otobesane1]

Although I'm very aware that I don't really own my land, (thanks to the threat of eminent domain and an ever encroaching government), I AM the person who paid hard earned money for it; made every improvement that exists; maintain it; and pay taxes on it. I will be the person who decides who regularly treads on the land and who remains for any extended period of time. I certainly won't "share" this acreage with someone else because they feel entitled to it, or because they feel that it was "stolen" long ago and therefore isn't really mine. Sounds like someone needs to get a job, save some money and buy some "stolen" land of their own...or wait for the gubmint to start "sharing" what others have worked so hard to obtain. Just my .02 though.