How did I get started?

[Anon001]

I see so many postings and people asking about so many things. *That is the nice thing about this forum.... But, I haven't seen much as far as other's stories. *So I thought I would try to keep mine brief and tell you how I did it.

I will start off by saying that I grew up on the same farm as my mother and her father before her. Cattle and cotton....

What I did? *I had a few acres rented from a friend for the upkeep, fertilizer, weed control, etc.... *I started buying an old cow with a calf and bred back every time I could scrape together the extra money. *I was raised with cattle and had some knowledge. *By the way, I as working minimum wage at that time. *After I got a nice little herd of cows I sold them off and bought my first "good" cows. *The old batch I sold were all different breeds and none purebred. *Some were small and some weren't.. but no two looked the same. *It was the most mix-matched herd you ever saw. *

I sold those 10 cows and then took the money and bought my first 5 purebred Herefords. *I was very selective in my cattle and I also made sure to budget every dime expected to be made on calves and what would go out in feed and hay. *I did most of my own vet work. I did my own dehorning, castrating, etc. *I bought a registered well bred bull just under 2 years old. *I kept him and used him every year and still have him. *He is now about 16 years old. *Last year he produced no calves but I had a new bull. *Most cattlemen say you can't keep the same bull. But inline breeding is what produced the top cattle in this country and I wasn't spending $1500 to $2000 for a new bull every two years over the last 14 years... lol *Where my neighbor would have spent as much as 25K over the 14 years, I didnt'.

I then borrowed just enough to buy 11 more bred Hereford cows. *When I sold the calves, I paid off 2/3 of the note. *The registered calves from the first 5 cows paid off the rest. *I also had a couple milk cows. *

Then I bought 5 sows and a boar. *I used the leftover milk and soured my grain for the hogs. *They ran in two acres of fenced timber. *The little pigs topped the market every time I sold, except once. *They paid for their feed and the feed for the milk cows. *I bought 3 more Jerseys giving me 5 and sold all the milk I could. *Then I sold the hogs. *During this time I also had chickens. *I was also saving back ALL my heifers. not just the best ones. *I figured to build my herd first and then cull for replacements. *As the herd grew I had to rent pasture. *It finally got to the point that I had about 30 cows. *I could no longer find more pasture and realized I had to buy land.

I looked for over a year... almost two years. *I went to all the farm auctions trying to find farms cheap enough. *Finally, I found this one. *It was 160 acres of pasture and timber. *At the farm auction it brought $600 per acre in 1997. *Today it would bring about 1200 to 1500, even in this economy.... based on recent sales nearby. *I had to put $35,000 down with the land bank. *Other than that, I never touched my savings through all my scrimping and buying cows... *

Of this 160 acres about 60 acres of it was timber, creeks, and ponds. *Fences weren't very good but good enough. I brought the cows up here. *I then borrowed enough to buy 10 more cows. *I lucked out and got them cheap. *When I weaned and sold their calves, they paid off the cows.

During this time, I dismantled a hay barn and a 100 year old dairy barn. BINGO *Lumber for my house. *Barn siding became my sheating. *I bought my windows for a total of $2.00 at a farm sale. *They go almost floor to ceiling...the old style farm house windows... but wide. *I bought two brand new skylights for $10.00 each at another farm sale. *They crank open and one is in the bathroom and the other is over the kitchen.

As I started to build, I bought an old 27 foot bumper pull trailer and pulled up here. *I bought a 500 gallon propane tank at a farm sale and hooked it to the camping trailer since it is cheaper in bulk.... a lot cheaper. *I also bought *a solar panel and battery and ran the lights off that.

When the first winter came, I realized that I was going to freeze my butt off in the trailer. *I brought straw bales and stacked up all the way around the camping trailer to insulate it. *I bought a ventless propane heater and used it which worked great and kept me snug and warm even on those sub-zero mornings with wind. Our winter was brutal that first year.

During this time, my herd is growing fast... *I get to about 80 cow/calf pairs. *They were on this place and another 40. *

The kicker is that the calves paid the mortgage, taxes, insurance, and hay every year. *Mortgage was $6000 per year. *Half due on June 1 and half on Jan 1. *Whatever was leftover from the farm income also went on the principal. *The land was paid off in 10 years. Taxes started out at about $425 the first year and the taxes are $500 now for the year on 160 acres and cabin. Two years ago I realized that I had patched fence and brought cows back home too many times and it was time to think about refencing the entire perimeter which would be 2 miles of fence. *I estimated the cost of materials and labor at about $18,000..... WOW.. I about soiled myself. lol *I would not go in debt. *I sold all but 30 cows. *That money went for the fences and other work...

I have also started a couple websites and I have also built websites for a couple of others for extra cash.

I live 100% off grid. *I have one 75 watt solar panel and an 80 watt solar panel with eight 6V Interstate golf cart batteries. *By the way, I moved into my unfinished house in 2002 and it is still unfinished. lol *I have never regretted being off-grid. *I heat with wood in an old Ashley wood stove. *I have a Crystal Cold propane refrigerator I bought new in August 2003 that I love.. It works great and makes no sound whatsoever. *I also heat my water with propane. *From May 1, 2008 to Feb 1, 2009, I had used only about 100 gallons of propane.

I also catch rainwater for all my water needs except the garden.. *I have a filtration, chlorination, and another filtration set up for it. *Prior to that I hauled up pond water and ran it through a series of filtrations that a man from an independent water company helped advise me on. *My water always tested as clean as well water and cleaner than any municipal water.

I garden, can, butcher, etc. *And along the way I learned how to sew.. lol *I never through out old clothes.. they become quilts, or rags or patches.

My biggest pond is about 4 to 5 acres... *Coming out of the dam... down low is a gravity flow hydrant. *I put my garden next to the creek and water from the pond with that hydrant. *My garden is about an acre maybe a tad more.

My life is not rushed or complicated and is basically stress free. *

If I can do all this.. anyone can. *Now to get to the real kicker. *I bought this place in February 1997. *In 1998, at the age of 37, I had two cataracts removed and was diagnosed with a genetic cornea disease and was told I would go blind and eventually need cornea transplants. *In March 2001, I was diagnosed with Fibromyalgia. *In May 2001 I had a complete retinal detachment in one eye. *In September 2002 I was in a propane explosion and they are still scratching their heads in awe that I survived. *Then things settled down and I learned that the pain I had every day of my life from the age of 8 would be with me from then on. *I could live with that... I always had. *Somewhere along about February 2005 I was diagnosed with Neuropathy in the feet and legs, but mine doesn't cause numbness. *Mine causes sharp breathtaking pains. * In May 2007, I had my first partial corneal transplant. *In June of 2008 I was diagnosed with Meniere's disease although mine is milder than most.

So...If I can do it anyone can. *And if I can be debt-free anyone can be. *If anyone tells you that the land, and the livestock will not pay for itself or if anyone tells you that a homestead will not pay for itself..... think again.... It can... it has... and it will, if you use common sense and stay out of debt. *Debt is the killer. *For every month that someone puts $200, $400, or $600 on interest payments, that is money I and you can put in the bank and stockpile.

When the 400 richest men in America were surveyed, one of the answers they had in common is that you can't build wealth with debt.

If anyone wants to know more.. please ask. *I am going on memory and this is sorta spur of the moment but I think everything is accurate. LOL.....

Good luck with your dreams, too.
PaulNKS *(and NO it's not flat here! *LOL)

P.S. *By the way, I recently learned about very efficient cold cathode lights from 12VMan and have already switched over about half my lights in the house and am waiting on more to arrive on Feb 18. *At that point all my lighting will have been switched and extra to spare. * Thanks 12v.....

[jen_in_southtexas]

Paul,

Thank you for sharing your wonderful story. *It is very inspirational. *I try to live by these words: "If you want something real bad, you're gonna find a way to get it!"

-jen :)

*edited for typo.

[flatwater]

Mines a lot shorter. I prayed, got divorced , prayed again , got a log cabin with 20 acres for 52,000.00 , prayed again and got my soul mate for life

[buster]

Thanks Paul for the post. Its goes to say that work with finanical disipline, it can be done.

[CarolAnn]

Paul - this is an AWESOME post! Thanks for sharing!

[johnjmw]

Paul,
You did a fantastic job on this post. Best of all you showed how the herd grew over the year and what you did with them.
Were the cattle free range or hay/grain fed all year? And did you keep the job through all this?
John

[michiganmom]

some days i feel like giving up, today was one of them untill i read your story.Thanks so much, what a great uplift.
michiganmom

[Kyhome]

Great story thanks for sharing Paul. You need to come back inot chat it was good talking with you there as well. Rick in KY

[bookwormom]

thanks for sharing. But you know, not everyone has the talent to do that. I have come to the conclusion it takes a certain personality to accomplish that. there are people who sweat the small stuff somewhat fierce, wait for rain to start haying, do the back stuff first, and generally just do not enjoy working with their hands. It takes them forever to do every little thing and they groan at the thought of having to do anything and promptly get hurt.

[TSJ]

An inspiring story Paul. Is that why you moved from Texas to Kansas because that where you found your farm?

Another question that I have is when you take a trip who watches your animals for you? Neighbors? I always wonder about that. My dad raised horses as a sideline when we lived in Abilene, TX and it seems like we could never take trips or vacations unless it was to a horse show or something.

Anyway, thanks for your story. -TSJ

[Anon001]

First of all, I want to say, "thank you" to everyone. *Your comments are as uplifting to me as you say mine are to you....

Paul,
"If you want something real bad, you're gonna find a way to get it!"
-jen :)

Jen,... you are so right. *The biggest problem I see is that some people want all the ducks in a row. *But we know that the ones that do too MUCH planning are usually the ones that spend so much time planning that they look back and wonder where the time went when they are in their old age. People need to have goals and have a basic starting plan and then run with it but plan as you go....

Mines a lot shorter. I prayed, got divorced , prayed again , got a log cabin with 20 acres for 52,000.00 , prayed again and got my soul mate for life

That was funny!... *wish mine had been that easy! LOL

Thanks Paul for the post. Its goes to say that work with finanical disipline, it can be done.

Buster, that is the key. *Discipline. *Don't spend what you can't budget and always have some tucked away... there will always be unexpected expenses with a house, or a farm or livestock, etc..

Paul,
* * You did a fantastic job on this post. *Best of all you showed how the herd grew over the year and what you did with them.
Were the cattle free range or hay/grain fed all year? *And did you keep the job through all this?
John

John, Actually the herd grew over several years. *I would say I started them in 1992*and I paid off my 160 in the spring of 2007 (10 years from the closing). *In growing the herd I did buy cows in the beginning and another couple times and then just started keeping back the heifers. *When the land was paid off, I started putting the income in the bank.... to be able to pay cash for more land later. *Also to your questions... the cattle are mostly free range and then, of course, hay in the winter with a liquid protein supplement which they need when they are producing milk for calves. *Milk production of course being tied to not only the quanitity of protein but also the QUALITY of the protein. *My cows never see a dry lot. *That alone will drastically cut vet expenses on health related issues. *Also, I kept my job through all this. *I left my job in March 2007 involuntarily! LOL *When the employer was told I needed two to three weeks for a "partial" corneal transplant, I was terminated two days later. *....and no it is not illegal unless they are large enough to fall under the Family Leave Act. *According to federal law, you can fire someone for any reason without reason except in cases of gender, age, national origin, religion, etc..... Also keep in mind that at the time my job ended the most I was making was $9.00/hr.

some days i feel like giving up, today was one of them until i read your story.Thanks so much, what a great uplift.
michiganmom

Michiganmom... never let anything stress you to the point of wanting to give up.... if it does, get your butt on here and chat with someone in the chat room or get on the phone and call a friend that relates to your homesteading... it is worth never *giving up. *If I can endure it with my limitations, anyone can.
thanks for sharing. But you *know, *not everyone has the talent to do that. *I have come to the conclusion it takes a certain personality to accomplish that. *there are people who sweat the small stuff somewhat fierce, *wait for *rain to start haying, do the back stuff first, and generally just do not enjoy working with their hands. *It takes them forever to do every little thing and they groan at the thought of having to do *anything and promptly get hurt. *

You are so right... but I also think that sometimes, if it is just the lack of talent, it may only be because they haven't had good guidance from the right people..... however, if it is someone that complains about everything, then nothing will work in any aspect of life... not just homesteading... Homesteaders have to be willing to work and be creative with money, resources, and other things such as using leverage to overcome disabilities or age related weaknesses and such.... or when you don't have a buddy, wife, son, etc to help lift it! LOL

Again, thank you all for the words...they are encouraging to me... especially if I know they can help motivate someone that just doesn't know where to start or what to do. *

If anyone wants to PM or email for other questions... please do so.. however, just keep in mind that others won't think your question stupid or dumb, and there may be others wanting answers to the same questions as yours and hesitant to ask... your questions and answers help others, too.. no matter how basic or simple they may seem........

[Anon001]

An inspiring story Paul. Is that why you moved from Texas to Kansas because that where you found your farm?

Another question that I have is when you take a trip who watches your animals for you? Neighbors? I always wonder about that. My dad raised horses as a sideline when we lived in Abilene, TX and it seems like we could never take trips or vacations unless it was to a horse show or something.

Anyway, thanks for your story. -TSJ
TSJ. *No, the farm was not why I moved. *That in itself is a long story. lol
The only time I take trips is at Christmas for a week to 10 days to be with family in Texas. *I also go back for 2 weeks the end of June - first of July. *I have neighbor boys that I pay to help when I'm gone in the winter. *It doesn't take much for a 14 year old to wanna help! LOL * In the summer I have a neighbor that just checks in a time or two during the two weeks. *
To care for the animals?
DOGS: *I have an old dog that is blind and a young dog. *I also have outdoor cats. *I use a self-feeder that holds 25 pounds of food. *The neighbor checks on it to make sure it doesn't go empty. *It usually lasts them about a week. *They don't let varmints get it, either. *I have the gravity flow hydrant that comes out below the pond dam. *In the winter I set a 110 gallon rubber stock tank there and keep the water slowly running into it to keep it from freezing too thick.... The livestock, dogs, cats, chickens, etc drink from it. *I don't have to shut the chickens up because the old dog has always protected them. *But now that he is blind, I can just have a neighbor kid (about 2 miles from here) fill water each day for the animals... I also have two chicken feeders that hold 40 pounds of feed each. *When I'm home, they mostly free range, but that won't be possible when I'm gone with my old dog being blind and the young one not protecting them.
CATTLE, GOATS, etc. *In the winter, there is hay and the neighbor boy puts it out. *In the summer, they need no tending... They graze and ALL the animals drink from one of three ponds.

If I go somewhere for just one or two nights, whether summer or winter, I can manage to do enough chores ahead of time to get the animals through. *But I usually don't leave for more than one night and that is seldom...

Thanks,
PaulNKS *

[michiganmom]

Paul Thank you so much. I will come on here when it gets me down and know their are people out their like me. Alot of people dont get it and some even think its crazy. I have even been laughed at about making my own soap and the people dont understand why i do the things i do. Again Thanks
michiganmom

[ryanmercer]

Wow, if only I could do it... but I don't even want anything that big. I just want 5-10 cares for myself somewhere in my state.

[Anon001]

Wow, if only I could do it... but I don't even want anything that big. I just want 5-10 cares for myself somewhere in my state.

Ryan.... what makes you think you can't do that? I will tell you one thing... I guarantee that if I can do it, ANYONE can do it.... You just have to decide to do it, what it will take to do it, and then run with it... it may mean making sacrifice until you come up with the money for down payment. The whole key to being self-sufficient is to have no debt. The money paid on interest is money that could be going in the bank, mattress, coffee can.. wherever you want to put it. But, you have to sacrifice in order to save enough money for a hefty down payment and even if you amortize for 30 years, never pay for 30 years.

I had a 30 year note with a 15 year balloon and yet, I paid off the first 160 in 10 years....

By the way, during this time I was working on building my house, too. With the solar and the materials, I have less than $5,000 invested in my house. So, if I can build a small house for that amount, anyone else can, too.... If you want more details, I will be glad to provide them.

But, if you take the attitude that you can't do it..... give up now, because you never will do it. So, take the attitude that you can do it. Cut your living expenses, get rid of debt... and start saving for a hefty down payment.

Good luck

[ryanmercer]

Ryan.... what makes you think you can't do that? *I will tell you one thing... I guarantee that if I can do it, ANYONE can do it.... You just have to decide to do it, what it will take to do it, and then run with it... it may mean making sacrifice until you come up with the money for down payment. *The whole key to being self-sufficient is to have no debt. *The money paid on interest is money that could be going in the bank, mattress, coffee can.. wherever you want to put it. *But, you have to sacrifice in order to save enough money for a hefty down payment and even if you amortize for 30 years, never pay for 30 years. *

I had a 30 year note with a 15 year balloon and yet, I paid off the first 160 in 10 years....

By the way, during this time I was working on building my house, too. *With the solar and the materials, I have less than $5,000 invested in my house. *So, if I can build a small house for that amount, anyone else can, too.... If you want more details, I will be glad to provide them.

But, if you take the attitude that you can't do it..... give up now, because you never will do it. * So, take the attitude that you can do it. *Cut your living expenses, get rid of debt... and start saving for a hefty down payment.

Good luck

I have no skills to do anything like raising animals for a profit, affordable land is worthless land pretty much, and what land is affordable and good, is in such large pieces that I'd never be able to afford it.

And you could NEVER build a house here for around $5,000. You'd have to spend considerably more than that just to get it to pass inspection.

[Anon001]

Ryan,

Let me start by saying that I in no way mean this to sound rude or offensive....

I would bet *that the the majority of people that consider themselves "homesteaders" today, began with no knowledge of livestock. *Most of then had to start somewhere learning. *

Also, building inspections have nothing to do with how much you pay to build a house. *My house would pass "most" building codes.. not all but most. *Spending only $5,000 doesn't mean it has to be a shack. *It means you hussle your butt and work your butt off from sunup to sundown and in between jobs and on weekends, and....and...... and work! *It means you scavenge up free lumber and windows, and plumbing fixtures, etc. *You can scavenge up good quality building materials at little or no cost.

I knew a couple farmers that wanted old barns removed. *I dismantled a hay barn and a dairy barn.... lumber without knots... lumber of the type of quality you CANNOT buy today. *It would pass any building inspection. *Notice that I said I dismantled them. *I did not tear them down. *There is a big difference. *I also helped a man in town dismantle a 100 year old house for some of the lumber and all the old floor to ceiling windows with the thick glass.... and the maple hardwood floors, the tongue-and-groove subflooring, the rock walls from the basement, ....etc.

Ryan, I have had a lot of limitations over the years and now.... and if I can do it, ANYONE can do it... especially a healthy young man.

Ryan, you CAN do it if you want. *BUT, if you decide it can't be done, then you never will do it. *Find a county that has less stringent building codes. *Start finding materials and accumulating them if you have a place to store them. *If not, then start saving for your down payment. *Buy the land and buy a cheap, old, used rv to live in while you accumulate building materials. *Then build your dream home or cabin at almost no cost.....

If you remember anything remember this...... *Their are ONLY TWO differences between those that do it and those that don't........ *attitude and discipline. * If you want to do it and have an "I can" attitude and apply the discipline, then you can do it. *All the rest is just excuses. *Income limitations are also just excuses... I worked for minimum wage when I started trying to do it and ate only what I raised........ and rice... lol *When I stopped working 2 years ago, I was only making $9.00 per hour.

SO.... if you want it... then get up and start working for it and stop with the excuses. *Get your hands dirty, your body sweaty, and work until you are so tired you fall into bed at night and pass out when your head hits the pillow. *

Good luck.. you can do it if you REALLY WANT to do it.

I hope you didn't find this offensive, but when someone says they want to but can't and then start coming up with excuses..... I can counter every excuse they can come up with....almost.

[ryanmercer]

No I didn't find it offensive :) Just encouraging.

[Anon001]

Good.. I'm glad. The whole point of my starting this thread was to encourage people and let them know that anyone can do it. Anyone can learn and apply it. Some things have to be learned from books and some from doing, and some from both....

I hope you can work toward your 5 to 10 acres.

[ryanmercer]

Good.. I'm glad. *The whole point of my starting this thread was to encourage people and let them know that anyone can do it. *Anyone can learn and apply it. *Some things have to be learned from books and some from doing, and some from both....

I hope you can work toward your 5 to 10 acres.

I just have bad luck, and every time I start to get some money set aside, some freak accident happens that requires it.

[michiganmom]

Ryan, i started out knowing nothing. My parents tought me nothing. I did not even know how to cook when i moved out. I got married at 16 and had a hudge wake up call about the things i had to learn to do. Let me tell you i now sell baked goods and my family and friends love it. I learned about cows, horses, pigs, goats and chickens too. Let me tell you how i did it. I learned by going to the library and getting books, i learned from this site and i also learned by people who were a;ready raising stock. In most cases you will find that the farmers love to tell you how to do things. I also spent time at the auction barn and got to know a few people who really helped me out big time. Dont worry it will come to you as you go. Please do not feel like it will be too hard to live this way. It is also fun, the more you learn and get going the more excited you will be and you will be surprized how much you have learned in a short time.
Good luck to you
michiganmom

[michiganmom]

Hey Paul, i wanted to say thanks again. It is wonderfull having this forum to comunicate with others about this stuff.
michiganmom

[Anon001]

Michiganmom,

I bet your's is an inspiring story...... Did your husband know you couldn't cook when he married you or did he also have a huge wake up call? LOL

Ryan, she is right. As I stated earlier, there are a lot of "homesteaders" that were not as fortunate as I in being raised smack dab in the middle of agriculture. But, they have come to learn just as much as I ever did and much more many times.....

You just have to jump in and go! The main thing is that you do need to learn a little about livestock before you get them or you may have a bad experience.

I was raised on a very large farm.... and it was also where my mother and her father were raised. Her father and grandfather were cattlemen and my great grandfather had about 6,000 acres at one time... But,... there are so many that have learned more in a few short years than what I will in a lifetime...

An important lesson.... I was always taught that livestock are NOT pets.

Livestock, no matter how tame, are for work, food, and profit. And as long as you remember that you won't go wrong.

[michiganmom]

Hubby had a hudge wake up call LOL. But hes a good guy and chocked it down with out complaining too much, i do have a story to tell too.

[Anon001]

Then you should tell your story... I bet we would all enjoy it and also find it encouraging.....

[michiganmom]

I might just do that one of these times.

[firegirl969]

I grew up on a farm. We raised cows, pigs, tobacco, peanuts, corn and soybeans. I got married, had a child and adopted three more children. We were married 18 years when I was just fed up and divorced my first hubby. Three kids live with me. We had dairy goats, raised-bed gardens, fed a steer and pig, made our bread, canned, when kids were growing up. I remarried after 11 months of the split-up. We moved to his family property and fought Ware Co wildfires for 9 days and paid cash for a small single-wide MH. We have been able to add a nice porch. I got hurt on the job and took a 50% paycut for a different job that I can do with my disabilities. I was denied Social Security. I work 2 days a week and face more surgeries. We realized that we had to change our spending patterns, so we began raised-bed gardening again, added blueberry bushes and fruit trees, and a pot-bellied stove. The land has wild blackberries everywhere. We cashed in our retirement when the stock market went south and stocked up on canned foods, grains, personal hygiene products, house cleaning supplies and security items. We add to this stash as we can. We have uncovered over 200 jars his grandma had in the barn and I have managed to wash and clean all of them and get them ready and shelved for the summer garden, along with the purchase of 30 boxes of lids. I bake our bread, both whole wheat and sourdough. We have 20 chickens for eggs and three rabbits for breeding and manure for the garden. We have just added a pig and a steer. Our future plans include a root cellar, a larger garden, a shelter for a tractor and our boat, and a worm bed. We hope to become as self-sufficient as we can, but realize that we will need to barter or sell items to make it. DH has a government job, so we hope he can hold onto it. The are talking furloughs instead of lay-offs.

[huckelberry]

i moved to alaska,went to work on the north slope,made 7000.00in 6 weeks.made a downpayment on 21 acres,built a cabin,sold for enough to pay cash for this 20 in montana,im curently livin in an old camper,an have enough cash to build a cabin this spring,i plan on solar an wind, gardens, chickens, fruit trees,huntin an fishin too...wood cook stove has kept me from freezin at -20 in a poorly insulated camper this past winter...was snowed in for 13 days,my buddy from across the canyon finaly came an plowed me out....gotta love it...huck

[Anon001]

Firegirl, -- It sounds as though you are getting it together. Like you, I could never qualify for disability which is fine with me. I would rather make it on my own.

Huck, -- I know how it is in a poorly insulated camper at -14... lol But, I put in a ventless propane heater and had straw stacked up on the outside for aways... I actually stayed warm.

I want to add one more item to my story...... I did NOT do this for anticipation of SHTF... I do not think it will ever get that bad. I think it could come close, but even if our government fails, another will step in! LOL..... Seriously, the reason I have fought, worked, sweated, ached, and hurt, is for the independence and no other reason. I am a naturally independent person that wants not to have to rely on anyone for anything. At this point, the only thing I have to come up with money for is some meager health care, property taxes, and insurance. My latest taxes for the 160 plus th house were only $500 for the year (+/- a couple dollars). But, the cattle pay for all the expenses on this and the other farm (40 acres).....

But, I did it for the independence and no other reason. However, it will pay off if I'm wrong and we see the SHTF in my lifetime.

[SciFiChick]

Great Post Paul! I am hoping one day to own my little piece of heaven. I WILL get there. The DH and I took some big steps awhile back and I am happy that we did. We gave up the rental house and bought a 40 ft RV (used but in great shape) We live in a park with mostly other fulltimers. We are now debt free ;D The park used to be a dairy farm and sits on the front of the 115 acres. DH works for the park. Since the job pays so little we get free lot rent and water. Our biggest expense these days is the cable and internet. I work full time 5 miles away. This year we are planting a garden. I will be learning to can so if anyone wants to help with that......LOL
We have always loved camping and have all the gear. I have been working on food storage and can now proudly say its starting to look better and better. We are in the process of buying a truck to tow the trailer (another obstacle out of the way) All I can say is forward progress is forward progress

[Anon001]

SciFiChick,

I think you got a good start... Getting rid of payments and debt is the best place to start. I am not associated with him or his programs, but Dave Ramsey has a daily radio talk show on Fox News Radio and many local stations and has a debt free course.. However, you can learn all you need to know about saving and snowballing your cash just by listening. I didn't follow his plan but was taught growing up that debt is not getting ahead. Paying cash is getting ahead and the only way to build wealth or any other dream that requires buying a house or land.

I will say that I normally don't eat out or didn't. Now that I am debt free and doing okay and my homesteading IS supporting me, I do eat out on occasion after church with friends. I don't buy pop or junk food of any kind. I will cook and make my own snack foods. I don't shop just for the sake of shopping.... and yet.... I have everything I need or want.

Hopefully now that you are debt free and not having to pay rent you can start to snowball your savings and have a hefty down payment if you can't pay cash for a place.

I have a cousin that was so happy when she got married and left home. She said she would never plant another seed as long as she lived. The last time we visited, she couldn't understand why I want to live as self-sufficient as possible. I asked her how much money she spent each month on groceries for her, her husband and two teenage children..... just off the top of her head she said about $200. I told her she didn't spend less than $400. Most people will guess about half of what they actually spend. She agreed I might be correct. I then just simply told her that for the $400 she spends every month, I put in the bank...... She just looked at me. When I told her to also add to that her utilities... then we are talking a lot of money every month that she spends and I don't spend...... It made her think... LOL... But not enough to want to plant a seed... just enough to try to get her husband to make more money! LOL

If anyone has any questions more specific on how I did things, I will be glad to answer.

[johnjmw]

Pauls right. Dave Ramsey has a fantastic common sense approach to being debt free. It is a good first start. I took his course and have a couple of his books. (kinda sound like a slow learner needing all three)
John

[Anon001]

Pauls right. *Dave Ramsey has a fantastic common sense approach to being debt free. *It is a good first start. *I took his course and have a couple of his books. *(kinda sound like a slow learner needing all three) *
John

ROFLMAO! I'm sure you're not the first homesteader with learning disabilities! LOL Actually, I bet you did just fine. Some people need all that just to comprehend it because, we have been so frickin' brainwashed into believing that we can't get by without being hocked up to our eyeballs. I could never have done what I've done if I had debt.

The nice thing about buying a larger place (in my case this 160 acres) is that you are usually required to have 30% to 35% down and the only way to save that much is to be debt free with almost no monthly bills and stockpiling every dime you can get your hands on. It really does snowball once you get started. Then when the cattle paid for this place in 10 years, I was able to save the income and pay cash for the next 40. The other thing is that I bought a place that was undeveloped with NO improvements... i.e. no house, barn, or anything and built my house for less than $5,000 with better quality used materials than can be bought today.

Now.... I'm figuring that since I'm a middle aged (and getting older) bachelor, I need to start looking for a person or young couple or young family to move here and try to start working them into things so that this will go to a homesteader when I am either gone or can't do it anymore..... but... I don't think anyone would be interested in that type of arrangement.

[madmac]

Paul I have read a lot of stories of folks finding independence but your story is a true delight to read. You are one remarkable person and you hold a true piece of the American Dream. You have earned it and reap from your labor. God Bless you for sharing your story with others. You should write a book.

[Anon001]

Paul I have read a lot of stories of folks finding independence but your story is a true delight to read. You are one remarkable person and you hold a true piece of the American Dream. You have earned it and reap from your labor. God Bless you for sharing your story with others. You should write a book.
Madmac -- Thank you but you are much too generous... :) . I did nothing remarkable except use some discipline which is extremely difficult for a naturally undisciplined and lazy person! LOL But, like I keep saying... If I can do it, anyone can do it. People keep thinking that a homestead won't pay it's way and I wanted others to know that it can be done...especially newcomers that seem to be overwhelmed and not know where to start.

I would tell anyone... stop eating out. Eliminate almost all spending, especially in the grocery store. Even if you have a small backyard, till it up or put in raised beds or do something to raise food and stop the "outgo" of money. Pay cash for vehicles. If you have a financed vehicle, get rid of it and buy one with cash.... and other things... Then you can save for a place that you really want and not have to settle for a little less than you want. We live in a society where we are brainwashed into thinking you can't do anything or get ahead without credit. I have the sorriest FICO Credit Score of anyone I know and I'm proud of it because, it is low due to me not using credit. I wish people could understand that once you eliminate interest paymenst COMPLETELY, and not just get it down to 3%, or 5%..... but eliminate it, then those interest payments becomes money in your pockets.

I also watched very closely my stock. Any old cow that wasn't an easy keeper went to town. Just like when I was growing up, cows are preg checked in the fall. If she isn't bred, she goes to town. I won't feed hay to a cow over the winter that didn't breed. She MUST pay her way. If I need to cull a cow because of bad habits, then so be it, even if she's my favorite.

My dad always said, "If you can't pay cash, you can't afford it." He never borrowed a dime in his life and yet I was raised on 3,000 acres of land my mother was raised on and her father before her. It has been in the family since 1892, and our family always took pride in the fact that there was never a lien or a mortgage on the land....

So... didn't mean to get long winded again, but I just can't say enough about how easy it is if you really want it. Keep in mind that when I started, I was working 40 hours per week at minimum wage. When I quit working away from the farm in March '07, I was making $9.00 per hour and being single and no children, I didn't have very many tax breaks! LOL I've had guys sneer at me and say that the only reason I could do it was because I had no wife and kids to support and sometimes it is said out of jealousy. One of those, I had reminded him he was making 11.00 per hour and his wife was working as a network specialist in a private school. I also reminded him that he only had two children but had two incomes. I also reminded him that his wife spent over $400 dollars just on Thanksgiving dinner that year and almost $500 on Christmas dinner.... lol He didn't say another word. But, I find guys with one or two kids and two income household telling me it is only due to not having to support kids and a wife. LOL.. Their logic stinks. lol

So... thank you and anyone that has questions on specifics, I will gladly answer, ... especially if it helps get you on the right track or a step closer to your own dream of a working, profitable homestead.

[gregabob]

Bumbled on this thread, but I'm glad I did! I needed some inspiration today....got me fired up to get stuff done around here an get this place ready to sell. In the meantime I'm learnin' how to garden and preserve grub. More items on my plate are home grown now too. Thanks for posting your story Paul--makes me think I can do this too!

[kiwirach]

thanks for bumping this, i hadnt seen it before.

Paul, i've actually read all your blog and find your words very inspirational. i believe you are quite right about money and downsizing in order to get ahead. we just have to get out of the comfort zone of having to have everything society tells us we need.....we dont need half(or even more than half!) the stuff we buy, so we need to just stop buying it, and putting that money towards our goals.

this thread has inspired me again....it ebbs and flows!.
thank you.

[NCLee]

Let me add my thanks for bumping this thread, too. I hadn't seen it.

Paul, you already had my respect with the posts of yours that I'd already read. Reading this thread has boosted that respect tenfold.

You also remind me greatly of my father and mother. They lived through the depression of the 30's. Dad believed in staying out of debt. Except for the expenses associated with raising crops (corn, cotton, wheat, soybeans, tobacco) he paid cash for what he needed. After the harvests, any debts he had were paid off FIRST.

I remember some lean years when hail, hurricanes, etc. resulted in harvests far less than what he'd hoped to get. I remember him running a combine in 103 temps in order to make a little extra money for us. (7 in the family)

Like you, most of our food came from the farm. Chickens and hogs gave us meat. Cows for milk and large gardens. Between farmwork chores Mom would can and freeze vegetables every summer. When time permitted, we went fishing. Not for recreation, even though we enjoyed it, but to help put meals on the table. Still remember picking wild strawberries for the freezer.

Our pleasures were simple, but I wouldn't trade the memory of them for anything that can be bought at the mall. Ice cold watermelons from the patch. Homemade ice cream from the hand cranked freezer in the summer, snow cream in the winter. Cracking walnuts and hickory nuts sitting beside the wood stove. Homemade hot biscuits filled with homemade butter and a dollop of strawberry preserves. The smell of sheets dried on the line. Dad's fried dough. Mom's made from scratch coconut cake made with fresh coconut milk and grated coconut.

Anyway, I could ramble on forever. Paul, thank you for helping to inspire others. Thank you for letting them know they can do it, if they make up their minds to do so. As Dave Ramsey says, all it takes are baby steps and determination.

Lee

[LeatherneckPA]

snow cream in the winter.SNOW CREAM!! Two for my favorite treats when I was a kid were a bowl of snow drizzled with maple syrup and the home made rock candy Dad would make for us. Simple pleasures I hadn't thought of in years.

[Terri]

I just have bad luck, and every time I start to get some money set aside, some freak accident happens that requires it.

Yeah, me too.

Excepting twice it did not happen, which is why I have a house and a little land. That is twice in 34 years of adult life that life did not leave me financially wiped out.

I now have Multiple sclerosis and so I will NOT be raising blackberries and honey to sell, as I had intended. I just cannot do the work in the heat. So, I am now experimenting with growing vegetables with weed barrier. This year I got perhaps a dozen pumpkins and a LOT! of fresh veggies, and so next year I will expand. Tomatos and squash to sell, I think, as well as a lot of food for the table.

Once in a while, life will NOT wipe you our financially. Stay frugal and wait for it! I have a separate account to save up for expansion: after 2 years I have $1000 in it. I am set up now to put more money in as the car and truck are now paid off: My goal is to have water piped into my acreage in 2 years time and then I can perhaps expand my vegetables even farther: there is only so much my back yard can raise!

So, next year I sell squash and tomatos, the year after that I get water piped into my acreage and sell squash and tomatos, and the year after that I expand my vegetables onto my acreage.

I allow myself $30 a week for pocket money, and this week I only spent $7 of it. The other $23 will go into my farming account. If life kicks me in the teeth again I will at least have money in the bank, and if it does not I will have irrigation water in 2 years.

[Terri]

And, Paul, thank you for a breathtaking post!

[Dave]

Paul,

You my sir have an awesome story. Folks like yourself have been a real inspiration to me. I would have to say the BWH community has really opened my eyes to what is truly possible if you just put your mind to it and have been a catalyst for me and my own family. We have been putting every dollar in to building our homestead and our total debt for EVERYTHING (land, house, vehicle, etc.) should be paid off in less than 12 months. Living debt free is truly a liberating experience.

It is all about setting your expectations and living with what you need and not what you want.

I have always believed that "consistency outperforms brilliance" in you are living proof of that.

Thank you gregabob for bumping this thread. I haven a tendency of not looking so far back in to thread histories.

Warm regards,

Dave

[Anon001]

wow... I have to say a hearfelt "thank you" to all of you. I write my story to show that even with health issues, it can still be done. What I did was not some amazing feat. I didn't have any miracle. I just used common sense and old style values. When I know that I have possibly inspired someone else, it not only reinvigorates my own goals, but it also helps to humble me.

Thank you all. When you see or hear someone say it can't be done. Let them know it can, if they really want it. What I find most often is that people romanticize it and think it would be great, but they don't want it badly enough to do it... or they just don't let their common sense take control.

Yes, Gregabob... get your place sold! We keep telling you that you need to go east! LOL

Terri...... Just to let you know that I admire you. In spite of health, you haven't given up. You only adjusted your goals, but they are still there. Bees don't require a lot of work in the heat. What you get back in value (honey used and sold) is far more than the work to get it. Usually, in the spring, I will open the bee boxes and check things out. Then in the summer if I think they are wanting to swarm, I will open the boxes and destroy all the new queen cells. Otherwise, I don't work much with them excpet to add boxes for honey and then when I harvest the honey in the fall. It is actually less work than the gardening in the summer. Don't let the MS make you think you can't do something. Still make plans and keep going, even if you have to ask for help with the larger chores on occasion. Once in a blue moon, I will ask a buddy for help if I am having a bad pain day or the fatigue is worse than usual. But, it is not often. I also try to think of ways with leverage and other stuff to make things work. I don't have the strength of most guys in their 40's and that alone is frustrating. But, I just work slower or in shorter time spans than other people. It takes me twice as long to do a job.... but, it can still get done.

Lee, I sometimes still make snow cream in the winter. Snow, sugar, vanilla.. mmmmm

Kiwirach,... this is why I write it. To show that it can be done by anyone, if I can do it. If I've inspired you then I've done my deed for the day! LOL. But, you're right. In the beginning it does require buying what is needed rather than what is wanted. For several years, I bought nothing fun except on my birthday and at Christmas. Each year at Christmas I would splurge on something just for fun...hence my gadgets. lol Where I'm at now, money is still tight but not like it was. Now, I have the calves for income, and I have a couple websites with a little bit of supplemental income.

So... if I can do it, anyone can do it.

As I've offered before, if anyone just can't seem to see how it was done, I will be glad to discuss it further if it helps, or if you want to pm, that's also okay.

[Terri]

Paul, when do you harvest your honey?

In my part of Kansas, people like to harvest in August, and the temps are just too hot.

[Anon001]

Terri,

I don't harvest my honey until September and October for a couple reasons. You have to harvest after the honey is "ripe". Or, in other words, from the time the bees place the honey, it has water in it. As it sits in the hive, the water evaporates. If you harvest your honey too early, then the water content is too high, and the honey will ferment....giving you a form of honey wine (mead). So, I have a refractometer that measures the moisture content and I always check first. Also, I wait that late, because like you, I don't want to put on a beesuit in hot weather. So, I wait until the weather is cooler.

An old beekeeper told me one time that it is okay to open a hive if it is warm enough to comfortably wear a short sleeved shirt outside. So, in September and October, there are still warm days but not hot and it makes it perfect for harvesting the honey.

I do have a hand crank extractor that takes the honey out of the comb for me. But, you can do it other ways as well....simpler and easier than cranking an extractor. Also, many beekeepers that have extractors will let smaller beekeepers bring their "combs" (frames with foundation) to their place to extract the honey. There are beekeepers associations almost everywhere. lol Beekeepers are usually happy to help you get started with advice, physical help, etc.

If you are growing vegetables to sell, you would greatly benefit from the bees. I think you would see your yields (production) increase dramatically. Obviously there are other insects that pollinate, but not as reliably as the honey bee.

Another thing you might consider is allowing a beekeeper to put hives on your place and the rent is half the honey crop. One hive in my area in an average year will produce at least 30 to 35 pounds... some years much much more. (There's 11 pounds to a gallon). So that might be an option for you to consider. The beekeeper gets another place to place hives and you get additional yields increasing your revenues and you also get honey without the work.

[Terri]

Thanks!

I DO have bees, but I have only been HAVING them. I have heard that bees will turn the honey into brood when the nectar stops flowing, so I have not been putting the supers on.

Perhaps next year will see!

[Anon001]

Thanks!

I DO have bees, but I have only been HAVING them. I have heard that bees will turn the honey into brood when the nectar stops flowing, so I have not been putting the supers on.

Perhaps next year will see!


OH.. I'm sorry. I thought you wanted bees but didn't have any yet. I'm not sure what you mean when you say they will turn the honey into brood.... it is an impossible feat. The brood is nothing more than the eggs laid by the queen. If you don't have honey supers on, the queen will lay the eggs in the same areas as the honey is stored in. If it they run out of room, they will swarm and you will lose at least 1/3 of the colony to the swarm.

But, if you put your honey supers on in early spring, with a queen excluder below the first honey super, it will keep the brood and honey separate. Then everything above the excluder will be nothing but wax and honey.

There is usually more than one honey flow. When the trees first begin to bud or bloom, there is honey... Bees can also get honey from sap and even weeds when they bloom. When you see them getting active in early spring, they are already making honey and will do so all the way up into the fall.

But... they don't turn the honey into brood.

[Terri]

OH.. I'm sorry. I thought you wanted bees but didn't have any yet. I'm not sure what you mean when you say they will turn the honey into brood.... it is an impossible feat. The brood is nothing more than the eggs laid by the queen. If you don't have honey supers on, the queen will lay the eggs in the same areas as the honey is stored in. If it they run out of room, they will swarm and you will lose at least 1/3 of the colony to the swarm.

But, if you put your honey supers on in early spring, with a queen excluder below the first honey super, it will keep the brood and honey separate. Then everything above the excluder will be nothing but wax and honey.

There is usually more than one honey flow. When the trees first begin to bud or bloom, there is honey... Bees can also get honey from sap and even weeds when they bloom. When you see them getting active in early spring, they are already making honey and will do so all the way up into the fall.

But... they don't turn the honey into brood.It is just a phrase that I have heard, let me be more precise!

Folks out here, perhaps just 100 miles away from you, say that if you leave the honey on the hive that the bees will raise so much brood-feeding them the honey- that there will be no excess honey for the beekeeper to harvest. There WAS honey, but they used it all to raise brood. They call it turning honey into brood.

Since you say you DO have a harvest, then I think that I will try to put supers on, and leave the supers alone until the cooler weather in fall.

I WAS going to raise honey to sell, but, honey is heavy and when it is 85 degrees a half hour after sunrise I just cannot do that. I found out the hard way that I could only take about 10 pounds of honey a day, with the heat and the confused bees and a veil and gloves and jeans on. So, I only have one hive instead of 20.

I have the boxes in the garage and the land to put them on, and the desire to see them filled with bees. I just did not think that there would be anything left to harvest once I got out there in October!

[Anon001]

Terri,

I disagree completely. In a normal, or average year, bees will produce MUCH much more honey than they will ever consume whether for their own food or for brood. One queen bee can only lay so many eggs per day. If they did raise additional brood, that would provide MORE workers and result in MORE honey being produced...

The only time that a hive will not produce excess honey is in a bad year. Even in bad years, you should still be able to get a harvest... maybe not a lot, but more than the colony will consume.

Also, keep in mind one other point. If a colony gets so large that they feel crowded, they will swarm and you lose 1/3 of your bees. One way to stop them feeling overcrowded is to add the honey supers. However, they will still eventually feel overcrowded and swarm under normal conditions. If I see signs that they are overcrowded and preparing to swarm, I will go in and destroy all queen cells so that they cannot produce a new queen.

I've been around a lot of beekeepers, including old timers and never heard the phrase "turning honey into brood."... maybe it is something from your area.

With that said, when you harvest honey, you do need to check the brood frames to make certain there will be enough honey for the bees to survive the winter. I always start feeding my bees toward the end of January. I have seen bees starve out right at the end of winter. Actually, I had that happen to one of my hives when I first started several years ago. It was late February. One week, they seemed okay.. on a decent day, there was a little activity but, one week later, I had no bees left in that hive. They ran out of "food" and starved.

One other thing. I realize that the honey supers are heavy when they are full. I take my little red wagon when I harvest the honey. I put the supers on it to pull back to the house. Since full honey supers are quiet heavy, if I were you, I would take extra boxes with me. When you open a hive remove half the frames from the box and put in a separate box so that you are only lifting half the weight. There have been times when I thought I might have to do that.

[Terri]

I will try it next year, I suppose!