Homesteading , A simpler way of life !

[otterbob]

Homesteading , A simpler way of life !

Thats a load of crap !

Definition of modern Homesteader should read :
Homesteader, A person that must work a different occupation to pay the feed {and other } bills !

The homestead today is not like it was 50+ years ago.

Land use and outlawing the poor has totally changed what homesteading once was.

Today the homesteader Is a person that strives to produce for his family, good food, a way of life, and knowledge that can be given to the next generation, many times at a cost that exceeds “just Living” !

Where is the “simpler way of life” ?
One must cut firewood, cook meals, feed and handle livestock {in the snow and good weather } 7 days a week.
Grow food, gather food, process food,
Build barns, sheds, and fences, maintain everything in working order.
Make what you do not have the money to buy.
All for Free {no wages } ! Then Go to work to pay for it all.

I AM A HOMESTEADER !
I LOVE IT !!!

Otter Bob

[ozarksnick]

Homesteading , A simpler way of life !

Thats a load of crap !

Definition of modern Homesteader should read :
Homesteader, A person that must work a different occupation to pay the feed {and other } bills !

The homestead today is not like it was 50+ years ago.

Land use and outlawing the poor has totally changed what homesteading once was.

Today the homesteader Is a person that strives to produce for his family, good food, a way of life, and knowledge that can be given to the next generation, many times at a cost that exceeds “just Living” !

Where is the “simpler way of life” ?
One must cut firewood, cook meals, feed and handle livestock {in the snow and good weather } 7 days a week.
Grow food, gather food, process food,
Build barns, sheds, and fences, maintain everything in working order.
Make what you do not have the money to buy.
All for Free {no wages } ! *Then Go to work to pay for it all.

I AM A HOMESTEADER !
I LOVE IT !!!

Otter Bob




There is homesteading and there is hobby farming.

The activity you describe -- spending a lot of money on something you enjoy doing for no other return benefit -- is what I call hobby farming.

I am trying to learn to be a homesteader. I am trying to live the simple life.

And by simple I mean direct. I mean I cut my wood with an axe which requires no fuel and it heats my home. A handful of hours labor turned into heat for my home.

That's opposed to going off to work for some company to earn money. Which I then in turn pay to some other company in order for them to make electricity and ship it to me to heat my home.

The simple life isn't easy. But it is a lot less complicated. The modern life may seem less complicated, but that is only because the complications are hidden and out of sight.

Also I am striving to learn to grow all my own food. And all the food for the livestock.

One of my prime directives, so to speak, in my homesteading activities is to use methods that do not require a constant influx of cash.

There's nothing wrong with hobby farming, if that's what you want.

But don't confuse it with homesteading.

[MooseToo]

ozark - what did you ever decide about cattle ?

[ozarksnick]

ozark - what did you ever decide about cattle ?

I found out how much it would cost to buy a cow. About $1,000. So it's gonna have to wait awhile. Just didn't figure one would cost that much.

Goats can regularly be had for under $100, so maybe that's more up my alley! ;D

[otterbob]

Greetings Ozarksnick,

I have read many of your posts in the short time I have been a member here, and consider you an intelligent back to basics gentleman.

I respectfully disagree with your idea of the use of the word/term “homesteader” in this situation.

If we go back in time a homesteader was a person that took a piece of land, improved it, worked it, derived his living/income from it, then filed for ownership and PAID a fee for the land.

As we are no longer in that time frame, and to my knowledge there are no public lands left for “homesteading”, the term homesteader has evolved into a different meaning.

A hobby farm is just that “a hobby of operating a farm”, not a ranch nor a cabin site.
A modern homestead includes but is not limited to, Farming, Ranching, Home, and activities that include “trying” to be as self sufficient as possible under NEW rules and regulations applied to us by our government.

A person CANNOT start a homestead without money. Some are given a homestead and money, but to maintain the homestead one MUST produce an income either from the homestead or an outside job.

I admire you in the fact that you are one of the few that have come closer to a self sufficient homestead then most. But,,, even you have spent money and have recurring bills. You may have lowered them significantly, but you still need money whether currency or barter, or you could not continue as a homesteader.

You stated “by simple I mean direct”.
My use of the word simple/simpler was to mean “easy/easier”.

I will always strive to be a homesteader AND as self sufficient as Ozarksnick !

Again, I AM A HOMESTEADER AND I LOVE IT !

Otter Bob

[flatwater]

Otter Bob You make a good point. I have a homesteaders heart but at 61 it's not condusive to doing it and may never be , but in every thing I do I look to be more self sufficient
flatwater

[otterbob]

I found out how much it would cost to buy a cow. About $1,000. So it's gonna have to wait awhile. Just didn't figure one would cost that much.

Goats can regularly be had for under $100, so maybe that's more up my alley! *;D

Wow!
I bought this summer :
3 year old 780lbs longhorn hefer bred back to a longhorn and in second trimester --- $325.00
2nd year 450 lbs red "mix breed" hefer --- $185.00
1st year 350lbs Hereford hefer --- $210.00
1- 3 or 4 year old Boer Nanny --- $42.50
2- *3 or 4 year old mix-breed milk Nannies *{fresh} --- $17.50 each
2- young 2 to 3 months"mix-breed milk" Nannies --- $6.00 and $8.00
1-young 2 to 3 months "mix-breed milk" Billy --- $8.50
1-young 2 to 3 months Boer Billy --- $15.00

Otter Bob

http://www.coloradojingjing.com/pictures/dsci0089.jpg

[fnfredux]

Wow!
I bought this summer :
3 year old 780lbs longhorn hefer bred back to a longhorn and in second trimester --- $325.00
2nd year 450 lbs red "mix breed" hefer --- $185.00
1st year 350lbs Hereford hefer --- $210.00
1- 3 or 4 year old Bore Nanny --- $42.50
2- *3 or 4 year old mix-breed milk Nannies *{fresh} --- $17.50 each
2- young 2 to 3 months"mix-breed milk" Nannies --- $6.00 and $8.00
1-young 2 to 3 months "mix-breed milk" Billy --- $8.50
1-young 2 to 3 months Boar Billy --- $15.00



Don't mean to be picky, but they are Boer goats so called because they were bred by the Boers in South Africa. That is their origin.
WHERE ARE you that you got those livestock prices? if you are any where near MO, it might be worth a drive to pick up a beef calf.

[ozarksnick]

A person CANNOT start a homestead without money. Some are given a homestead and money, but to maintain the homestead one MUST produce an income either from the homestead or an outside job.

I admire you in the fact that you are one of the few that have come closer to a self sufficient homestead then most. But,,, even you have spent money and have recurring bills. You may have lowered them significantly, but you still need money whether currency or barter, or you could not continue as a homesteader.

You stated “by simple I mean direct”.
My use of the word simple/simpler was to mean “easy/easier”.


You're right, a homestead cannot be started without money. And you must have some kind of income.

The question is how much of an income and what do you pay with it?

In your original post you said that you had to work an outside job to support the homestead. Which is why I said it sounded like a hobby to me, because hobbies have to (usually) be financially supported from another source.

And I understand that we are not using the term homesteader in its original sense. But still I, personally, see something more in the word homestead than an activity which presses more financial obligations upon a person than a "normal" life.

The goal with my homestead is to make it entirely self-supporting. I have grave doubts that that will ever happen, I have yet to figure out how to make clothing off anything grown on my small plot of land. But I can perhaps make enough money from the land to purchase clothing elsewhere.

The point of homesteading, to me, is to enable a person to be at home with his family instead of constantly out in the world chasing after money.

As far as I am concerned, my homestead is still very much a work in progress. And I'm sure many things will change as I discover what works and what doesn't etc.

And the differences between our use of the word simple is one of my big hang-ups, which is why I specifically mentioned how I mean the word.

To me putting a seed in the ground and harvesting the fruit however many weeks later is infinitely "simpler" than having to have a job to pay someone else to plant the seed with a machine which someone else had to make then harvested with another machine which had to be made, all fueled with oil that had to be drilled and refined, then shipped to a store near me using another machine to be fueled, until I can get enough time off from my job to go to the store and buy it. But it is not easier.

Most of my family is under the impression that the "simple" life means the "easy" life, which is why the difference of definition is such a large hang-up so I apologize for overstating the matter.

[otterbob]

WHERE ARE you that you got those livestock prices? if you are any where near MO, it might be worth a drive to pick up a beef calf.

Theses Deals were found at a livestock auction in Fowler, Colorado.
I am sure you could do as I do so I have posted below how I do this.

This may be a little harder to explain.

To get these “DEALS” I sat for many hours at the livestock auction on different occasions.
For me this is a relaxation akin to others that go to a movie, fishing, hunting, or trapping.
I do not get to do it often because it is 60 miles from the homestead.

Do not buy ANYTHING by the pound.
Do not buy known sick animals EVEN IF FREE !
Know the value and current “Going” Auction price of the animal/fowl/item you are bidding on.
PAY ATTENTION to EVERY SALE !
Set as directly in front of and as close to the auctioneer as possible !

The Deals are found when you notice that an animal/fowl/item is about to sale for a low price because others are not paying attention to the price or have filled there need. NOW is the time to bid ! Do not just raise your hand, YELL OUT ! YOOOOOOOO If others jump in on the renewed bidding , start shaking your head NO each and every time the auctioneer looks at you if the price exceeds what you have in mind as a GREAT DEAL.

It's sort of like “going once ,,, going twice,,,Going --- YOOOOOOOOO !

Otter Bob

[otterbob]

Don't mean to be picky, but they are Boer goats.

You are Correct, thanks for catching the typo.

Otter Bob

[otterbob]

Most of my family is under the impression that the "simple" life means the "easy" life, which is why the difference of definition is such a large hang-up so I apologize for overstating the matter.

No apology needed !
This is exactly my point and why I phrased the topic as I did.
I too hear this all the time.

Otter Bob

[MooseToo]

ozarks - around here it is definitely a buyer's market for goats - meat and dairy - i believe, if i had my heart set on dexters, i'd give it another three to six months and check market prices again - a lot of dexter buyers are in it for the "fad" market and are selling genetics rather than livestock - if the economy keeps heading south the fad market should dry up with buyer prices becoming more reasonable -

[mom]

In this weeks thrifty nickle newspaper - 2 day old bull calves - $20.00

[TSJ]

In the San Angelo, TX market you can buy feeder steers at 500 lbs at .93-.95 per pound. You can buy feeder heifers 300-400 lbs at around .80-.85 per pound.

Feeder bulls are coming in at around 600lbs at .70 per.

Pastures are in bad shape in Texas and the market is weak for grazed feeder cattle.

[hunter63]

I think trying to put "Homesteader" in a spetific catogory flys in the face of the independent mind set that it takes to live your life as you see fit.

As the original "Homesteaders" were just folks trying to make a better way of life for themselves and families, or die trying, I don't think they were concerned over definitions.

Too many are concerned that this make you a homesteader........ that doesn't............ etc.
Kinda puts off anyone new to the life style, or asking questiong about it.

I guess I'm not a Homesteader, though I do a lot of Homesteadie things, and I really don't care who thinks what.

[otterbob]

I cut my wood with an axe which requires no fuel and it heats my home. A handful of hours labor turned into heat for my home.

Ozarksnick,

Do you own/use a Crosscut saw , 1 man or 2 man ?

Otter Bob

[otterbob]

In this weeks thrifty nickle newspaper - 2 day old bull calves - $20.00

I'd bet, if you offered $50.00 for 3 they would be load'n um' up.

You will work your a$$ off to get them weaned then cared for, for the next year.
simpler then buying a steak ? No, but you'd know what you have when you "hang um" next fall.

Otter Bob

[Backwoods_Bob]

I'd like to be totally self sufficient, but I know that will never happen.
To durn hard to grow tea or coffee this far north... ::)

But we do live a simple life compared to some.
We homesteaded raw timber land some ten years ago.
Didn't bother with a single permit, just went and built our cottage the way we wanted to.

That's about as simple as it gets.
my friends bought homes that they will spend thirty years paying for, and they ain't built half as well as our cottage, although they are of course many times bigger than our cottage and stuffed to the gills with junk to boot.

Heck, we don't even have a single closet in our home, so we probably bother with far fewer material possessions than most folks we know.

We're well beyond phone and power lines, so we have very few bills.
If you get off grid and back into the hills, you still can live sorta as you wish without to much interference.
Mostly, anyway...

We do raise rabbits and goats, so we produce all the milk and meat we need.

But yeah, I do have to work a part time day job. Gotta pay taxes to keep tha land. It's only a few hundred a year but ya don't pay it and you run into more trouble than you can shake a stick at.

Pity ya can only rent land from the local Gov't in this country...

Anyway, I do know folks who lived in the backwoods and got buy on about 4,000 bucks a year.
You can get by on just one part time job if ya manage it, if your willing to make the changes in your lifestyle.

I reckon if civilization came to a screeching halt we could certainly get by, but in ten years I'd be wearing nothing but goat, rabbit and deer skins... ;)

My wife says I do live in two worlds.
At work I'm Bob the Project Engineer, and at home I'm Bob the Backwoods Bum. ;D

I dunno how I'd drum up an income from our homestead so I could stay home full time. Not sure I'd even want to try.
I'd put the pressure of earning dough on my homestead. I'd rather just drive to town and work a part time job.

At least my wife gets to avoid the "job" thing. She works quite hard at home, but is very happy not to have to try and earn any cash.

A modern day homesteader will always be torn in two directions. The fences are down, ya gotta weed the garden, ya got a pile of rabbits to butcher cause ya be needing meat, yet as the sun comes up ya gotta jump in the car and go to work.
No real way around it in today's world.
But you can minimize it.
Pay for everything as you go along, build everything ya can yerself and be happy with simpler things.
Then ya can get by with a part time job.

For example, I haven't watched TV in ten years. Don't get reception up here.
Now I could rig up some sorta satellite dish or something, and run a generator to power it, but why the heck bother?
Most folk I know would go nuts without a TV.

I'm content with a simpler life style.

[otterbob]

the original "Homesteaders" were just folks trying to make a better way of life for themselves and families, or die trying.


Exactly right !

Original homesteaders were folks taking advantage of the government homestead laws to better themselves and their family, and as you said “or die trying”

Most homesteaders today are still looking for that better way of living AFTER living “Inside the box”, or die trying !
Nothing wrong with it !
I will do my part to help others in their quest, but I will always tell them that if they choose to do what I and others do, it is NOT a Simpler/Easier way of living, but it is rich and robust living !!!

Otter Bob

[hunter63]

I will do my part to help others in their quest, but I will always tell them that if they choose to do what I and others do, it is NOT a Simpler/Easier *way of living, but it is rich and robust living !!!

Otter Bob


As will I, and if you have ever cut all your firewood by hand, as was brought up, you know that you don't need a membership in a gym.

I just hate lables.

[otterbob]

I'm content with a simpler life style.

Ozarksnick was the first to touch on our differences in the use of “Simpler”
Although I meant it in the context of Easier in my original post topic.
I would like to understand how/what you mean by “a simpler life style”
I cut and use firewood to heat and cook with even though I have propane, to me cutting firewood is not simpler then turning up the thermostat.

Otter Bob

[Backwoods_Bob]

By simpler life style I mean simpler as in less complicated, not easier as in less labor. :)
I don't watch TV.
I don't have running water or an in door toilet.
We use an outhouse.
We heat with just wood.
We don't have a phone in our home.
I don't buy meat or milk from the store.
I could go on, but you get the idea.

It's amazing how folks who I've worked with for years and who know how I live will still ask me "did ya see that on TV last night??
Or they will offer me AC powered stuff they don't want any more.
They just don't get it.
.
.
.
.
.
But by golly, I do use a chain saw to cut my firewood though! ;)

[hunter63]

B.B.
As my cabin is in the sticks, no phone or cable, what do you do for internet?

[rideaway]

Funny...I was just thinking about this the other day...

On our 5 acres we:

Have a orchard with apple, pear and plum trees which I preserve for winter

Have a large garden every year which supplements the grocery bill with the seasonal and canned/frozen/dried produce.

Raise 3 pigs in the spring (winter is too muddy), of which one goes with the 12 year old to the 4-H auction for school clothes and college fund, one goes in our freezer and the other is sold/bartered for our needs. As a matter of fact, just traded some of the last one for about $150 worth of engineering on manf home foundation.

I try to live frugally, reduce, reuse, recycle,(I'm going green without buying all the stuff that the "magazines" say I need).

I sew some of the things we need, I cook from scratch most of the time, and I love being on our property (which was the original homestead of my great-grandfather's 65 acres).

I am teaching my children (who range from 21 to 12) that a simpler life is a better way to live.

So, am I in any way considered a homesteader or am I just "playing" as some of the local people around here tell me I am??

[otterbob]

Funny...I was just thinking about this the other day...
So, am I in any way considered a homesteader or am I just "playing" as some of the local people around here tell me I am?? *


I personally would call you a homesteader.

In my opinion, in this day and age you would not live like this unless you loved it.

But my question to you is,,, Is it simpler ?

Otter Bob

[walls0stone]

All the pigion holes of who's what and what's who are complicated. It is compareable to the trend to identify ones self in this way,
Italian Americans, Afro-Americans, Native Americans, Asian Americans, ........white people.

If your doing it that's that, if you you have pets, you have pets.

the Hobby farm forum (pathetic joke that it is) is full of people who raise up animals they never eat. But the people who have a full time job, part time job...do things in a matter that is complamentry to a more independent and I dare say Conservitive way of life...realy should think of them selves as just that. A single group. Farmers, holmesteaders, whatever whatever...

Like all the pigon holes, we do nothing but devide ourselves in trying to be So independent that we actualy are weaker that had we stood together.

But we are not pioneers. We are not granted 40 and a mule. We are people in our time, doing things to the point we are willing and able. To each their own. I would love to live in a world were you do not hear planes or see cars on this road as my home was when my people built it in 1900, but I'm also happy for the medical and tecnical advances that are afforded me today. So I'll take both.

But it's not 1800 and I'm not going to pretend it is.

[rideaway]

It is simpler to me, since I watch my sister , who live next to me, spend every weekend going somewhere, doing something, buying what they need ready-made, including basics, like frozen pancakes instead of making them. Their two boys, ages 9 and 7, beg to stay home on the weekends and can't...sad really.

Now this does not make me better than her, and don't get me wrong, I love to shop and I love "techie" things too. But, I've learned finally after years of wanting "things", that all I need to be happy is if my basic bills are paid so I'm not stressed about that (yep, work full-time for the county building department and hubby works full-time for the state) and I have my basic health. So, even tho my day is full of things I don't want to do, I treasure the days I'm busy doing what I need to do to make my life "simpler".

[MooseToo]

if you are satisfied with and confident of your lifestyle, what does it matter how you or anyone else labels it ?

if the decisions you make are not catastrophically wrong, will you not learn and adapt ? it is forums like this where experiences are shared that assist in forming opinions and making decisions that will help preclude doing really stupid things -

i am profoundly grateful that i have the opportunity to learn from all of you -