Are Arid and High altitude areas suitable?

[jeep4x4greg]

Ok, heres the question I came here to get some insight with.

Are more arid and high altitude areas suitable for a person who wants to go, build a house, and be mostly self reliant?

I ask because I've always been a big fan of the west.....and since I'm at a perfect point in my life to do this (single, no very local family, enough money, mildly crazy, etc)....

I really like the western states...CO, WY, UT, MT, ID

I'd like to go somewhere that can provide enough for me to live on,at least mostly.


I can build a green house and garden in there for most of my usual stuff to deal with shorter growing seasons and erratic weather.

but I'm not sure how the plants react to altitude....???

can grain-type plants be grown there w/o a green house (would love to be able to make own flour)?

I know the soil is terrible....and I'm sure i could compost and get topsoil as needed for the green house, but it might not be efficiency for a whole field of grain....

I would like to take rain water and collect it in a cistern to water said plants.....and maybe myself:)


..i guess this is a pretty complicated question......so I'd just like your takes on whether or not one can do this in the high-n-dry west (where the land isn't 1-million $ per acre)........use as little or as much detail as you like :)

[machinemaker]

Greg,
we are in colorado at 9500 feet, and have trouble raising vegitables in our green house due to our lack of a growing season and the long winters. However we know others at this altitude that are off grid, but the lack of a longer growing season hampers them too. But if you drop to even 7500 feet, (8 miles away) the growing season is long enough to have a garden. I used to visit the "earthship" communities out side of Taos, NM and they have good results at their 7500" elevation. the upside to this rocky mountain region is our constant sun shine, 360 days a year. I am not sure where you are looking, but land prices here in colorado are probably above average and having water is an issue. We live in a pass between two mountains, have 420" well, but plenty of water, down the road the neighbor had a 150" well and is short on water. There are cheaper pieces of acerage around, usually out in the flat desert areas, but again you have to do your homework and know what is there as far as water and access.

Good Luck and let me know if I can be of help.
kent

[Toad_Sticker]

I gardened in Co at 7800 feet with no problems after I learned how.
Actually where I was would of been better to be higher since 7800 was the valley and all the cold air went down into it.
So to answer your question I would say yes. Once you learn the area and how to do things and what grow best in your conditions. Don't expect to get it right the first couple years.
In 98 we had 24 degrees on July second. I didn't lose anything although the plans were injured.
TS

[kawalekm]

Hi Greg
Just because you choose to look for land in the West, doesn't automatically mean that it will be arid and high altitude. *We have started our homestead in the Sierra foothills at about 4600 feet and we seem to be in a pretty good position. *

The winter's just get cold enough for a little snow to fall once in a while, but no bitter subzero temperatures. *That level of cold is good news for apples, cherries, and peaches that we are starting to plant. *Our location gets about 24 inches of rain per year, and we have a producing well on the property, so our water needs are met completely. *The soil here is excellent. *When I first checked the property I dug a little hole to check the soil. *Looked good. *I didn't find out how good till I started planting trees. * Topsoil was fine siltly loam, 24 inches thick, and I found one single rock in the first twenty holes I dug!

It is a little too cold though for sub-tropicals I planted like figs and carob. *I lost every single carob, and the figs are barely holding on by a thread. *I would still like to have a greenhouse though. *I could start vegetables earlier in the spring and I might be able to keep some kind of dwarf citrus inside.

You do have a good idea about rainwater collection. *Though our well supplies all the water we need, I need gasoline to power the generator to pump it, and I think forward to the time when gasoline will be more expensive. *I calculated that our cabin roof should be able to collect an entire year's worth of water for us. *Watch out though. *Some states like Colorado prohibit rooftop water collection. *Their idea is that rainwater is the property of the state!

Good luck with your land hunt!
Michael

[GoodDaughter]

Kawalekm, you need a habitorium. ;)

[WileyCoyote]

As for higher altitudes; remember, this puts you closer to the sun. Plants need good soil, water, CO2 - and sunlight. My brother lived in CA for 10 years, never got sunburned - his first WINTER in ID he got sunburned! It isn't cold, snowy, and grey out west all of the time! He is at 5200 feet - and so are the potatoes, the cherry and apple trees, and his garden, all of which - since he plants short-season crops and uses row covers for both the start of and end of the season - do extremely well. They grow hay up there, too, and last year had three harvests! So just because you are at a high altitude doesn't mean you can't grow things, especially with planning and preparation. *

As far as 'arid' goes - that depends on your interpretation of 'arid'. We moved from a place with 89-100% humidity, which was beneficial for rapid and long term growth - but encouraged many more destructive bugs and much more fungi to grow. Here, in 28-45% humidity (at its highest) there are far fewer bugs, and I have no fungal growth - even on the plants I brought with us that initially HAD fungal growth! *The things you can do to increase humidity around the plants depend on the type of soil that you have. If you have very sandy soil, you can mix compost with it to maintain water retention, and this keeps the water from draining away quickly before the plants can uptake it. Keeping the plants heavily mulched will also help with water retention at the surface. In humidified areas, one must water only in the morning, because watering in the evening can cause mold and fungal growth. In arid areas, one can water in the morning and/or evening. In arid areas one waters more of the plants and less of the soil, so top watering is ok - in moist areas, watering at the top causes fungi. *Depends on your soil if you want to use drip irrigation; in sandy soil it drains away faster, clay soil it retains like a swamp, silty soil (the best) it drains more slowly. And don't count on an area to be arid just because the Weather Channel says so - some ranchers and farmers use so much water for irrigation, and city folk use so much more water on their lawns, *that the humidity in several areas of previously 'arid' states has risen quite drastically! In Omaha and Lincoln, NE, the humidity has gone up from a previously low quantity to sometimes as hgh as 80-90%!!

So explore the areas in which you desire to live; check for soil consistency (what grows well there) and water availability, as well as LOCAL reports of humidity for growing seasons month-by-month. *As long as the area can host bushes, grasses, trees, and wildlife of some sort, you can amend soil and utilize water to grow practically anything. Look for your "growing zones" as well, and look for seeds and plants in catalogs that will tell you what 'zones' they will grow in. Although with a little practice, and learning how to build or use microclimates ( a wall or building reflects heat and stops wind, which can extend your growing season, etc) you can grow almost anything, anywhere! ;D I grew a fine crop of potatoes in the NM desert...

[jeep4x4greg]

.............. Watch out though. Some states like Colorado prohibit rooftop water collection. Their idea is that rainwater is the property of the state!

Good luck with your land hunt!
Michael



what?!

thats got to be a joke of some sort......

I don't think i would honestly have much respect for a law like that.....and I'm a very law abiding person.


keep the info coming...this is pretty insightful!...and encouraging!

[Anon001]

what?!

thats got to be a joke of some sort......

I don't think i would honestly have much respect for a law like that.....and I'm a very law abiding person.


keep the info coming...this is pretty insightful!...and encouraging!

In Colorado that is the law. My understanding is that they also say that if the water is captured it won't make it back into the soil. LOL I have friends in Colorado that wanted to catch rainwater and were told by the city authorities that it was against the law. But, Colorado is known for it's ridiculous water rights and laws.

[gregabob]

what?!

thats got to be a joke of some sort......

I don't think i would honestly have much respect for a law like that.....and I'm a very law abiding person.


keep the info coming...this is pretty insightful!...and encouraging!
I called the state water board, and was told the law may be changed next year....but I'm not takin' any chances. I was looking to move to the Colorado Springs area, but sandy soil and the rainwater collection rule have made me change my mind. I'm now looking at Wyoming......

[rockymtngirl]

Hi Greg - we are still in Denver Metro but looking at land in CO, and as posted previously - the prices are pretty high, there are some good deals to be found if you look though. We've found that many of the lower priced acreage is in the southern CO area - mostly semi arid ranch type land - i.e. no trees! Recently we've seen land at more reasonable prices - I think maybe due to the economy folks are deciding to 'get rid of that land we never use!" - crazy huh?

As for the other states you mention, well, UT - I haven't checked land prices there, but my guess is they are similar or higher than here and the personal religious persuasions of most residents just doesn't suit us.

I've also checked into Wyoming - problem right now is that the economy there is good (due to all the oil and nat gas boom), so land prices are pretty high for anything we would consider. Land that is available at reasonable price is pretty much treeless windblown (well it's pretty much all windy there!).

My .02 for what it's worth...

RMG

[jeep4x4greg]

i was looking at land of this sort:

http://www.landsofamerica.com/america/index.cfm?detail=&inv_id=118452

http://www.landsofamerica.com/america/index.cfm?detail=&inv_id=190843

http://www.landsofamerica.com/america/index.cfm?detail=&inv_id=168696


and the such......

around here....land is 4500$ per acre....occasionaly as low as 3500.....so 2800 an acre seems like a bargain!

[Clair_Schwan]

I live in S.E. Wyoming at 6,700 foot elevation. You get sunburned here in 45 minutes or less. The wind blows about 8 months out of the year, and we are semi-arid. The trees here are what you plant and keep watered, unless you're in the mountains or alongside a creek.

There is lots of moonscape up here, with some beautiful spots too. Lots of mining and lots of tourists in the summer. No state income taxes and our property taxes are low, but opportunities for higher income are also low. Bring or create your own business - that's what I did.

We have a couple greenhouses and one under construction. The plants love it here. We'll be self-sufficient by the end of 2009 when it comes to vegetables. Our frosts stay late and come early, so a serious gardener for vegetables should have a greenhouse.

Check out this PVC design. It is cheap and easy, and it stands up to the wind. http://www.frugal-living-freedom.com/pvc-greenhouse.html

Also, we have lots of hail around Cheyenne, so fruit trees and outdoor vegetables are challenging. The fruit buds either freeze in the early spring or get knocked off by hail.

Solar power and wind power work very well here.

We grow wheat in this area (dryland farming) and we used to grow potatoes. It varies what can be grown where, so I would do some research first. Mostly we have sheep and cattle, but mining is by far our largest employer.

I hope this helps,

Clair

[rockymtngirl]

Hey Greg - Those are nice - a little too pricey for me ;) I'll be keeping an eye on the rainwater issue - alhtough if you were far enough out....

[kawalekm]

By the way Greg, I would caution you about the praticality of internet shopping for land. Things might be different in Colorado, but here in California I figured out that rural properties that were sold on the internet were the "junk properties" that couldn't be sold any other way.

I looked at several internet properties that all had very serious defects. By that I mean too rocky to touch the ground, so steep you had to hold on to tree branches, no water, or no legal access. The way we did find the land that we finally bought was through an agricultural realtor that speciallized in "mountain properties". We bought it in 2003 and is far and above anything else we found surfing. It was only 3100/acre, completely fenced, has water, and legal access via a county road.
Michael