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Suzy
05-30-2010, 12:16 PM
The youngest one of my goat mama's continues to look so thin. Her babies were two weeks old on Saturday. I'm keeping her in a locked stall in the mornings so to make sure she finishes her goat feed mix (which I buy from the co-op) and then I shut her up again at night and let her eat by herself again.

She has twins who are growing and thriving and she seems to be doing all right but is just not as fat and saucy as her mom and grandma who also kidded the same week (mom with twins and grandma with triplets!)...

She had a rough delivery but has been a super little mama.

I was wondering if maybe I needed to worm her but I didn't know if I should worm her while she is nursing. I am currently not milking her.

cinok
05-30-2010, 01:50 PM
I know some use IVOMEC in nursing doe as long as the milk is not used for human use. But their is some concern by others of worming while does nursing. Nursing takes alot out does does she show any sign of worms.Or it is just post birth and nursing that is making her look thin.
http://fiascofarm.com/goats/wormers.htm

Anon001
05-30-2010, 04:03 PM
Suzy,


This Spring I went to a clinic on worms and deworming in goats and sheep that was put on by our local extension service for a three county area.

Most goats now carry pesticide resistant parasites. They recommend NOT to deworm unless you know for certain that the animal has worms and then only treat the infected animal/s. Give them two weeks to pass the eggs and move to a new pasture.

If you have to deworm while an animal is lactating, you are more limited on what types of dewormers you can use. Most of them will state on the label whether they are okay for lactating animals.

Also, there is the "barber pole worm". It is a bad deal. If you have dewormed in the not too distant past and you suspect the goat of still having worms, it could be the barber pole worm which has infected the majority of North American goat herds.

If it is barber pole worm, and you try to deworm in the usual way, you can kill the goat. What happens is that the barber pole worm causes the goat to be anemic. If you deworm for this worm, you have to also give the animal a lot iron supplement to keep them healthy while getting rid of the barber pole worm.

I would first have her checked for any type of parasite. If you or a friend has a microscope, you can see the eggs in the manure. But, I would have her checked before deworming, only because the ag research universities are recommending NOT deworming unless there is a definite presence.

Good luck,
Paul

momma_to_seven_chi
05-30-2010, 07:06 PM
Usually you give Valbazen right after birth within a few hours, and you can follow it with Ivomec a month later. Don't give Valbazen during pregnancy or if you are using the milk yourself. That's why you give it immediately after birth while the goat is still giving colostrum before you would start milking her for yourself.

NCLee
05-31-2010, 09:14 AM
Agree with Paul.

Don't deworm her unless you know, for sure, you have a problem. Her body is already under stress from trying to produce enough milk for her twins. And, you said she had a difficult birth. Her body is still trying to heal from that.

IMHO, doing anything that will add more stress to her body, is a No-No, unless you're absolutely sure it's the best course of action.

You didn't mention what she eats in additon to the coop food. I'm guessing she's on pasture during the day. Is there plently of brouse (not grass) for her? If it's only grass, I'd suggest trying to give her good quality hay and extra treats, if possible. Treats meaning trimmings from maple or other suitable trees, carrots, apples, and such. If she hasn't eaten them, introduce things like apples slowly, so as not to upset her digestive system.

When we kept goats, we always made hay freely available to them. I posted in Dave's homestead thread how we built a hay feeder that kept wasted hay to a minimum.

Lee

Suzy
05-31-2010, 11:36 AM
Thank you all! I think it is just the stress of giving birth and nursing two kids. I don't see any other signs of worms such as when I look under her eyelids, she doesn't look anemic.

She is on a small pasture by day but we've had so much rain the past few days it's kind of a soggy mess so I've supplemented with hay some, but also with honeysuckle and pine. They especially love also some of the branches from the pear tree. So I'll just keep doing that and try to buy another big bale of hay tomorrow to supplement as well.

She stands in the corner of the pasture and looks up at the house a lot and just "baaaas".

There is a good possibility that she is quite SPOILED as well as tired from feeding the kids....But I will continue to watch her closely!

Anon001
05-31-2010, 09:35 PM
Suzy,

Something else, too. A lot of times goats and cows both, will look that way, if they are heavier milkers. The heavier milkers have their body scores decreased by having to produce a lot of milk.

Another thing I learned at that same training I went to, was natural dewormers.... lol sort of.

They were telling us when goats have access to sericea lespedeza and/or cedar, they don't get worms. Of course, in Kansas the sericea lespedeza is considered a noxious weed and you can be fined daily if you don't take measures to eradicate it.

I just happened to think that since you are in Alabama, you may have a lot of cedar, but didn't know. Goodness knows... I've got too much cedar.

Paul

cinok
05-31-2010, 09:58 PM
Suzy,

Something else, too. A lot of times goats and cows both, will look that way, if they are heavier milkers. The heavier milkers have their body scores decreased by having to produce a lot of milk.

Another thing I learned at that same training I went to, was natural dewormers.... lol sort of.

They were telling us when goats have access to sericea lespedeza and/or cedar, they don't get worms. Of course, in Kansas the sericea lespedeza is considered a noxious weed and you can be fined daily if you don't take measures to eradicate it.

I just happened to think that since you are in Alabama, you may have a lot of cedar, but didn't know. Goodness knows... I've got too much cedar.

Paul

Now thats something I didnt know Our goats have plenty of cedar to munch on as a matter of fact the plan was as we cut them to drag them to the goat area. I hate burning them.

momma_to_seven_chi
06-01-2010, 05:09 PM
I worm everything regularly and don't bother to test. It is cheaper to just worm than it is to spend the money and time gathering poo to take to be tested. I know caprine parasites have become resistant, but you just up the dose to 4cc/100lb. Last time I took a dog into one vet and they talked me into testing it was $38. I'd rather just worm the thing for less than two dollars on a monthly basis. I have the same philosophy with goats, although I don't know the exact price of a fecal for caprine.
One of my friends prefers fenbendazole to ivomec. She feels it gives better results as used on a regular schedule. Valbazen does seem to be the strongest wormer for caprine use, but there are lots of contraindications with it, so you don't use it often. Whatever you choose, the dosage is 4x as much for caprine as for most other animals, so it's a good idea to get a dosage from the vet or a goat farmer in your area.

Have to add one more interesting thing..... My friend who works for the alternative chiropractor has a nice sized dairy herd. She uses the milk and meat because they won't eat any meat not grown by local farmers and grass fed. She uses the LBA testing for her goats/horses/dogs/cows/etc. And for worms she uses a "parasite" herbal blend of garlic, black walnut, feverfew and other things. She uses herbs for everything, and has a big herb garden to make her own potions for her family and animals. Just thought that was interesting.

Grizzy
06-01-2010, 06:44 PM
I thot this board's comments were interesting regarding the worming of goats..

http://www.maryjanesfarm.com/snitz/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=17038

~Grizzy~

Anon001
06-01-2010, 09:09 PM
My point was to do the fecal exam yourself. lol Get a cheap microscope at a pawn shop and it works great.

The problem with deworming on a regular schedule is that some people use only the same one every time. For any deworming to be effective, it has to have a rotation of the different classes of dewormer and going off label is not always a good thing and not always in the best interest of the animal.

Paul

momma_to_seven_chi
06-01-2010, 11:33 PM
My point was to do the fecal exam yourself. lol Get a cheap microscope at a pawn shop and it works great.

The problem with deworming on a regular schedule is that some people use only the same one every time. For any deworming to be effective, it has to have a rotation of the different classes of dewormer and going off label is not always a good thing and not always in the best interest of the animal.

Paul

You do it yourself? You amaze me, Paul. I have had my dogs in to the alternative clinic for LBA, and they can see parasite eggs in blood among other things. I've never done any parasite fecals myself though.

cinok
06-02-2010, 12:28 AM
My point was to do the fecal exam yourself. lol Get a cheap microscope at a pawn shop and it works great.

We are waiting for the hospitals new ones to come in and MELLEE is sgetting on of the old ones. The kids think its cool they are going to get to look at poop

The problem with deworming on a regular schedule is that some people use only the same one every time. For any deworming to be effective, it has to have a rotation of the different classes of dewormer and going off label is not always a good thing and not always in the best interest of the animal.

Paul
I have also seen that it is recomended that pasture rotation is important during worming since the shedded worm can reinfect.

Anon001
06-02-2010, 11:44 AM
What they usually do with fecal exams, is to make a "solution with a certain amount of the fecal sample added to a saline type of solution..... water and epsom salts work. Then that goes on a slide and you can easily identify the parasite and/or eggs.

I wish I had my own microscope. I have some friends that keep about 80 goats and I run over and use their miscroscope. She got hers for $50 at a pawn shop which was cheap. Also our extension agent has a really nice high-end miscroscope and she has offered to let me bring in samples and use that on, anytime.

Paul

momma_to_seven_chi
06-02-2010, 12:01 PM
I have also seen that it is recomended that pasture rotation is important during worming since the shedded worm can reinfect.

I've heard to let the guineas and birds run in the pasture after the goats too. I don't know if that is true or not.

Anon001
06-02-2010, 04:57 PM
They recommend two weeks to let the shedded worms and eggs die. But... I've got enough cedar, I'll never have to worry about rotation. LOL