Rethinking The Plan

[B00kW0rm]

When I first started posting on this forum I shared that my family will be moving soon...at least by March of 2009, hopefully sooner. We were/are excited about all of the possibilities associated with being more self- sufficient.

Our ideal location would have been...out, out, out...no, go a little further;-)...out in the country with enough acreage to support gardens, fruit trees, chickens & other livestock. Energy independence was also a high priority.

All of you wonderful people willingly shared information about how to evaluate a piece of property, what to check for in a an existing home, the importance of checking site history, performing soil sampling, etc. I was estatic (and humbled) that ya'll would take the time to share. Thank you from the bottom of my heart!

Now, we find ourselves in the midst of changed circumstances and are having to re-evaluate our initial plan. Some of you know that my daddy has been very sick (many thanks to those who've sent warm wishes and have offered up prayers on his behalf).

The final diagnosis for my dad is: heart failure, leaky valve, severely damaged heart muscle. He just spent almost two weeks in the hospital. The first heart cath found all of the problems, but the doctors were unable to repair anything...my dad was to unstable and his cardiologist told mom that he was surprised my dad even survived the procedure.

Next, a surgeon evaluated all medical records/tests/etc and told my dad that he was NOT a candidate for open heart surgery...to do so would be equivalent to putting him "in his grave" and the surgeon wasn't willing to take the risk. In the meantime, medication adjustments were made and my dad became a bit more stable...which resulted in the "go ahead" for a second heart cath. At this time the cardiologist was able to unblock one severe blockage and place a cardiac stent.

Daddy is at home now...with the knowledge that the stent is a temporary fix and at some point in the future he's going to have to pursue being placed on a heart transplant list. My mom, who is his primary caregiver, has medical issues of her own and is disabled.

Now, we (DH & I) are exploring the possibility of purchasing a home that has an attached in-law apartment/suite, etc. Location is important, from the point of view, that we'd have to stay within a reasonable distance of my dad's medical facilities and emergency services.

DH and I still want property that has no restrictions, we're just looking at having to pursue a smaller acreage amount than we previously planned.

So the new question is this: what is the best way to utilize 3-5 acres, as compared to 10-15? Verticle planting? Raised beds? A few chickens?

Thanks in advance:-)

[MYellowRose]

Bookworm do you have and have you read the book "5 acres and independence"? It's an older book and one I had before moving last fall and one of the most recommended ones out there.

[Terri]

I have a little less than one acre. And, I use half of it: the other half is for kids and the dog and 2 huge shade trees.

On that half acre, I have a 50' by 50' garden, a dozen semi-dwarf fruit trees, a patch of little evergreens for Christmas trees, a hand-made greenhouse, a tuff shed for potting seedlings next year, a bee hive, and a 3' by 3' chicken house that is only 4' tall.

The chicken house is big enough for the chickens, not for people. I use a long-handled grabber to get the eggs when they do *not lay them in the run.

I find that 2 young chickens will give a dozen eggs a week, and so will 3 older ones. Since the odd hen is lost, I like to err on the side of egg-wealth and so I now have 1 old hen, 3 pullets, and a rooster.

That gives the chickens 2.5 square feet each in the winter, which is a little snug in my book, but WAAY better than a cage operation! And, they go out in cold weather, though not if it is severely cold. I will be sectioning off part of the potting shed for them for this winter, as the old hen house is 10 years old and pretty rickety.

I am not zoned for livestock. If I was, I would look at milk next. A full-sized cow would not fit on my land, but a dexter cow or a couple of goats would!

I COULD raise feed on my unused land, but I don't as I am slightly disabled myself and I have plenty on my plate right now.

DH, bless his heart, has no interest in homesteading. He chooses to work in town, which means that we have good insurance and *a steady income. Long ago, I tried to get him interested in a vegetable operation. But, with me unable the do the heavy work, perhaps it is just as well that he was not interested!

We have 5.5 acres outside of town that we were going to make into a homestead with livestock. But, the symptoms of MS started in a few weeks after we signed the papers. I go there once a week and dream. I tried some non-irrigated squash this year that failed. The asparagus roots, however, did well and I got a meal of them this spring. I have put some Louisiana irisin this spring in some swampy ground, and while they have not wintered over yet they look very happy. I will put in some day lillies soon and knock on wood.

I WAS going to put in sweat equity, but now I can only do a little as I tire quickly. I DID use pressure treated lumber dropped across the ditch so that I could walk onto the land more easily, and with fortuen I can draft the kids to help me put a similar bridge across the little creek.

I HAD gotten plans for a LOVELY foot bridge, but flood waters come up to high. Instead, I am going to drop some 4" thick planks across the creek and drill a hole into one end. I can tie them to that big will ow with a very strong romp. That way, when the planks was out every year, they will not wash away. Each plank can just be dropped back over the creek so that I can walk across to the other side.

I figure on measuring, cutting, buying and drilling the planks, and drafting the kids to drop them across the creek. The creek is USUALLY only 18 inches across, but, it is more like 10 feet across during a major storm. To be safe, a bridge would have to be 20 feet across and that is too much for us at this time!

About your parents: I am a geriatric nurse and I had my MIL here for a couple of years. I never even noticed that I was burning out until I suddenly could not pretend an interest in her repeated stories any more! And, by then I was TRASHED!

So, BEFORE you get tired, arrange for a break for you Adult day care, an aid, whatever!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! *Because, I found the easy work with one "patient" to be very easy, until I suddenly started resenting not being able to focus on what I was doing. I always had to keep one ear open!!!!!!!!!

And, oh yes. Check your zoning for restrictions.

We are, for instance, allowed bees where we live but not cows or goats or horses unless we own 3 acres.

If you cannot own chickens, you might see if quail are allowed: a good breed of quail will give you an egg a day. Quail eggs are very tasty. A friend in a neighbooring town had a flock of them for their eggs.

[Suzy]

Just make sure you find a place that does not have any restrictions and you can start homesteading as much as you want...

Even with three to five acres you can have lots of chickens, some good milk goats, and more.

My husband has just about the same dire health problems as your love one except they COULD NOT put in even a stent....that was in February and we're still hanging in there....

He does no homesteading at all and HATES my animals so it's all up to me any way.

But we hav 15 acres and I don't even utilize half of it as of now....although the part that is wooded is a wonderful reminder of my child hood and a great place to tromp around in the winter!!!!

best wishes!!!! Get Carla Emery's book, get the BWH anthologies, and get the two anthologies available from COUNTRYSIDE and you'll never lack for info!!!

[B00kW0rm]

MYellowRose: I haven't read "5 acres and Independence". I'll see if I can get my hands on a copy!

Terri: WOW!! You sure have packed a LOT into one acre...I am amazed! It doesn't sound like we'll be as limited as I thought.

I know exactly what you're saying about how easy it is for a caregiver to reach burnout.

Suzy: We definitely want a place that has absolutely no restrictions! I'm sorry to hear your husband's health is so precarious. Technology is advancing at such a rapid pace that I'm hopeful of additional treatment options for my dad, your husband and others with the same health problems.

[MYellowRose]

Bookworm also check into adult daycare, we have many, many such places here. But that is to be expected as we have a large population of retired people, many of them are military retirees. If you're fairly close to a town it will probably have something similar. Also if they are on MediCare/Medicaid, they should pay for someone to come and help care for them. Good luck, I'll keep you folks in my prayers.

[Toad_Sticker]

Acres has the book "living on an acre"
also try "The have more plan"
I can tell you from experience that 3-5 acres is gigantic if you have not gardened that much space before.
I have 2 acres that I have yet to utilize in the 7 years we have been on the homestead. It takes too much time to keep the weeds down for me.
TS

[Padre]

Bookworm You might enjoy John Seymores book. The independant life. Has a 1 acre plan and a 5 acre plan in it. Lots of good info on old time,hard core homesteading.

[bookwormom]

Prayers and blessings,
you'll see how big a couple of acres can be. we have fourty and most just sit there and grow brush. I can endorse everything said above. and also, quality goes over quantity, two good acres may be a lot more than ten bad ones.

[MYellowRose]

I also remember an article years ago in TMEN I believe where a couple bought a large tract of land and then sold about half of it for the same thing they paid for the whole acreage. That allowed them to have the life they wanted and pay off the mortgage in one fell swoop, something you might want to consider.

[walls0stone]

got that right book, could have A ground or C ground. *Next year I will have a One Acre garden. *In talking with old childhood friends, the subject came up. *so next year will be a big ol garden here on the farm..tended by all of us. *But we have a motive..other friends of ours have done the same, canning over 14 baskeets of green beans if that gives you some perspective. *It's about compation :)

Last night the guys and I all stood for 20 mins looking into the hen house. *Our wives came out and asked what we were doing for so long... Ya know, there was a time when watching chicks ment something diffrant. *;D

[B00kW0rm]

Great suggestions everybody! Thank you!! I have found that it doesn't matter what I think our direction is going to be as far as homesteading...I ALWAYS receive absolutely awesome input and ideas!

I'll definitely check out the suggested reading material:-).

[WileyCoyote]

B00kw0rm, we too had to take care of sick and elderly parents. On 1/3 of an acre, we raised 25 bantams, and had the entire backyard as a year-round vegetable garden; spring crops like lettuce and peas, summer crops, and fall crops like collards and broccoli. I had peach trees down one side of the yard, and sand cherry bushes in front. *Why move?

Because we started to get ordinanced out. First to go were the chickens. Next they tried to ordinance plants and demand grass in the yards instead of trees and bushes. *I finally catalogued all my plants and all of the critters that enjoyed them and lived there - from bumblebees to skinks to possums - and registered my yard as a National 'Backyard' (you can use the front yard too)Wildlife Habitat. But it just got to be too much trouble to put up with the 'citified' way of life, so we started looking for 10 +/- acres in a certain price range. What we found were several good prospects, but we had considerations. By this time we had lost all but one of our parents, and the oldest from hubby's family was taking care of his mom, so we were free of those but still had DH's physical disabilities to consider - monthly scripts for morphine and painkillers, and my lupus flareups. So we had to consider medical care still; we couldn't live where there was NO access. Even tho hubby can build practically anything, and work with electrical, plumbing, etc, his physical limitations had to be a consideration. We narrowed it down to 6 prospects. One had too many 'fixer-upper' problems, another's property was too rocky, another needed full fencing, still another had no water access other than a part-time well. *So we settled on 60 acres. The soil here has to be amended to grow anything but sand burrs and black-eyed susans, but with a horse in the pasture and barn we are working on that. The pasture cannot support a large herd of cattle or horses; the natural grass is great but the sandy soil does not permit lush growth. *Nevertheless, we can run 3-4 Dexters or other milk/meat efficient animals on it; and it is fully fenced and cross-fenced. The house is 100 years old, but holds heat well - plaster walls and massive beams, 4 BR, a basement, upstairs and all is 1750 sq feet. DH has his shop out back, and I have three garden plots; two west and one east. We are planning a chicken moat around the southwest garden; a chicken house to sit in the corner by the fence closest to the house. The chicken moat/run will keep bugs out of the garden and give our chickens a good range, while providing them with a house to winter over. For the Northwest garden, we are planning a LARGE, mostly underground greenhouse to sell plant starts and to start produce for the southwest garden. ALL of these things will take time and steady effort as it grows. *

The most important thing is that *our house, barns, corrals, and gardens are on 14 acres on the northernmost edge of a town that has NO ordinances. None. I can have all of the chickens I want. On the back acreage outside of town I can hunt the turkeys, deer, and antelope as I choose, or run the animals I choose.We looked for an area that was LOSING population, not attractive to 'snowbirds' trying to escape the cold, no playgrounds for the rich and famous, no draw other than river tubing in the summer for the tourists and the occasional hunters in the fall. The people who DO live here are very friendly, yet very private, and very self-sufficient. They don't want growth and they don't pay any attention to how the rest of the country does things - they are happy and productive and hardworking and respect the same.

It took us two years to find just such a place. There are all sorts of pocket communities like this one, where there is no Wal Mart and no interstate nearby, and where they are not actively seeking the artificial growth and prosperity touted in community development programs. It has everything we need and nothing we don't.

You can 'stand where you live' and grow your own anywhere as long as you don't have gubberment ofishuls breathing down your neck and harassing you about your rooster's voice or your 'nappy-looking' trees and bushes. *You can combine raised beds, gardens in pots, and vertical gardening to suit your area, soil type, abilities, and lifestyle. *But if you look to move to a more amenable place, do your research on everything from soil types, thru population types and local ordinances, to closeness to necessities for your particular requirements. It takes a lot of research to find the 'perfect' place.

[jen_in_southtexas]

One acre really is alot to me. The only reason I want to buy the acre next to me is so that I dont have any immediate neighbors.

[Catalpa]

The 60 acres sounds ideal to me; the idea of having an area to garden and keep animals, plus the option of an open area large enough to hunt would be a dream. However, if you are facing physical or monetary limitations, there is a lot you can do with a smaller parcel. It's really important as to what the neighbors are like, and how much government interference you'll have to put up with, so do your research before you settle.

[walls0stone]

it's funny you say 60 for hunting.. we have no limet to what we can hunt in my part of the world.. even still, last year I said to my wife... I'm going to go out and get a deer..got my rifle didn't even put on the "garb" just me and the 06, walked across the narrow hayfield, looked over the hillside, saw a doe..pop... went back in the house. gone no longer than 5 mins. went back in the house..told the wife.." I forgot my knife" left the rifle, got in the gator... got the deer and took it into the barn to skin. With literaly 1000 acres to hunt or more.. I kill most of the game with in a stones toss of the door... I am so blessed. ;D

[WileyCoyote]

:P Walls0stone!! LOL Yeah, that is what I wanted - the ability to hunt without a 'running lease' - when the owner comes out, start a-runnin - on my own property. ( I never did it but I know many who have.) 60 acres isn't much here either - a mere blip on the hectares and ful sized sections around us - but the critters do wander out here. And they like my watering trough and pond. ;D

DH can't trek the whole property as it is, so this is comfortable for us. Shooting a deer and then trying to figure out how to get it five miles over rough or swampy terrain back to the road was a pain.

[walls0stone]

Ha more like the kind of running lease we have here. it's run AWAY or stay and talk with the nice friendly people and forget your out to hunt deer. No one posts or get's all pissy about that here. in the last 2 years, most of the elders have passed on, the oldtimers who were once incharge of the gangs (yep we hunt in gangs) and loosing them reminds us of 30's and 40's spirit when love thy neibor was the only way to live here. charging to hunt on land here is worse than adultry. We know not everyone has land to hunt on, so our motto is don't be a pile. :)

[johnjmw]

"So the new question is this: what is the best way to utilize 3-5 acres, as compared to 10-15? Verticle planting? Raised beds? A few chickens? "

I don't remember the sources but there are a few books out about succession planting. Spring crops, summer crops and fall crops and how to inter-plant them for the best results, or at least suggestions. My Wife has MS also so I've put off our plans for the past 22 years (which is when we bought some out of town property). Now that we are getting a bit older I am kicking myself for not getting started earlier on building but we were to worried about money and health insurance because of her MS. Now I will be playing catchup as soon as I can get started.
I'll be planning on expanding a garden each year as I learn which plants and such will grow best there. Mine will be a low maintenance garden with heavy mulch to reduce weeding and increase fertility. My place is far enough out in the country that animals are expected. Goats for milk and meat, chickens (and guinea hens for bug control esp ticks,,, I hate them!) I've thought about a few other animals and a "fish tank" for raising Catfish. But we'll see what happens.
I'm also looking at being as energy self sufficient with solar PV and DHW, a few biogas plants for cooking and a Wind genny for extra when there is not enough sun. All will be set up one at a time as I can find the time/supplies and help when it is needed.
John

[WileyCoyote]

The most important thing (to me, anyway) is understanding soil fertility and nutrients. *You can grow a lot of crops with Miracle-gro or any fertilizer that feeds the plants - but getting the soil healthy and keeping it that way is a priority for repetitive crops. *I know the latest talk is about 'no-till' farming, but for small acreage farmers this results in a lot of extra labor for weeding and insect prevention - especially since those of us who are dependent on more nutrients and less additives will not use the treated seeds. Where I used to live the soil was heavy clay and had to be completely amended every three years to provide good areation and tillage; "no till" meant putting seeds on resistant clay that were washed away with the first hard rain. Now we live in sandy soil that has to be amended for nutrients and water retention. *Hilly slopes require contour planting, while flat areas can be windswept and turn into either swamps or dustbowls depending on soil makeup and weather conditions.

People talk about their County Extension agent as a good resource for soil testing, and it is - but our CE is mainly trained in large animal proliferation, not soil and land preservation and enhancement. Some of my ideas were interesting to him! However he did give me some good resources to contact with the university, so I'm not grousing. *When I cam here and put my plants in, people told me I was planting the wrong plants and that the soil would not support them. They were right - to a degree. Unaltered soil here will not support them, but altered and enhanced soil will; and everyone now congratulates me on getting things to grow here that they have never seen grow.

Another thing to consider is microclimates. Something that cannot grow in an area normally can be made to grow by providing a microclimate as simple as planting next to a wall that provides wind protection and heat reflection. *Starting seeds indoors will give you a head start on a short growing season; if you like punkins and your season is too short, consider having vines already prospering under a gro-lite in a basement or garage.

Another thing a lot of people don't think about is CO2 for greenup of plants; it isn't just the sun coming thru the greenhouse roof that makes plants greenup but CO2 in their atmosphere. Also in the greenhouse I have kept lizards - although they can startle you by jumping when you walk by, I have never had a whitefly infestation because of them. I even permit a limited amount of spiders to catch bugs!

Everywhere I've ever lived I've been told by locals, "Oh, that won't grow here". *Well, almost anything will grow almost anywhere - as long as your soil is amended and your plants are properly nourished and protected from the soil up. My neighbors in NM were quite surprised when I harvested potatoes! *I have two new-this-year orange trees in two pots in a south-facing window here to overwinter, along with a tropical plant that has lasted for years. *Kept moist and warm and fed they can be productive.

Use, enhance, and encourage what nature has already provided, and learn what you can grow on your soil and in your area - and then spread your horizons. *Failures will teach you as much as successes!

PS Walls0stone; where I moved from there are hunt clubs (nominally "tree farms") that span acres and acres, and you have to be a member to hunt there - $500-$1000 a week for all of the out of staters who come in to hunt, $500 a year for residents to hunt there. You are right, it is 'way different out here - although I have noticed a few "no hunting" signs on some ranches' accesses. Maybe they've been taken advantage of by inconsiderate or lousy shots.

[B00kW0rm]

More awesome ideas! Thanks to all who have responded. I'm taking notes, making plans to access the suggested reading materials, etc, etc, etc.

[thequeensblessing]

You know, I homesteaded on 3/4 of an acre a few years ago. We had a small chicken house, a barn and a 1/4 acre pasture where we raised a freezer calf and a lamb each year. We also raised 2 piglets each year. We had a 25x25 garden plot that we augmented with edible landscaping (planted blueberry bushes, currant bushes and gooseberries for landscaping shrubs around the foundation of the house). We also kept rabbits in a colony style pen in the barn. We had a couple of apple trees in the back yard and still had plenty of lawn to just enjoy and let the kids play on.

Not to promote myself, but I have a series of books that I'm working on (first one is out now, 2nd one comes out in Nov. 3rd one is due out in March) that help show how you can homestead on any size lot. It's called Today's Homestead and you can check it on amazon.com and elsewhere.

You can homestead in the suburbs. Now, granted, it's not as easy, but it can be done!

[B00kW0rm]

thequeensblessing: thank you for taking the time to respond! I'm learning more and more about exactly how much can be done, no matter the amount of space you have:-)

Thanks also for letting us know about your books. I know you must be very proud, congratulations!!