Need Help with Crate Training

[Idaholady]

I have an 8-week old puppy that I need to crate train, but I'm not sure what I'm doing.

I put her in the crate at night (10 p.m.); turn off the lights. She settles right down and goes to sleep until about 5 a.m. I get her up and let her go on the papers in the bathroom. I take her back to bed with me and we sleep until 7 a.m. There doesn't seem to be a problem.

But, I'm trying to get her used to the crate in the car,when I have to run errands. I will be doing some traveling and want her to get used to being confined.

Yesterday she cried and cried when I had to go into town; I don't want to leave for for long periods of time (3-5 hours) just yet; she's too little; so I take her with me. I stop several times for her to go and then put her back in the crate.

Should I be putting her in the crate during the day for 15 or so minutes?
I'm not sure what I should be doing to get her used the crate..

She is also starting to bite my fingers; I tell her NO and give her a toy. She is still determined to bite the fingers over the toy sometimes. What should I do?

It has been such a looooooong time since I've had a puppy; I've forgotten what it is like.....sigh....

Thanks for your help....

[momma_to_seven_chi]

Honestly, I have never used a crate in the van or the car. My big dogs lay/sit in a bucket seat each, but the little chihuahuas seem to want to sit on peoples' laps. It can get a little irritating to the passenger to have 5 little chihuahua rats on their lap, but it has always seemed to work. My little hairless girl always lays on my shoulder. We just went to the vet yesterday for rabies updates, and that's how we go.

[Idaholady]

My puppy is only 8 weeks old and I can't let her loose in the car while I'm driving. If she was older there'd be no problem. Right now I have to get her used to the crate so that I can drive safely. I'm going to be doing a two day drive back to CA in July by myself, and I need her to get used to being confined. She's a lively little thing. LOL

I plan to stop every couple of hours to let her out and exercise her.

Once she is old enough I won't have to use the crate; I hope that she may come to like it as her 'safe haven.'

[MEBrian]

We've crate trained alot of pups.

What you're doing is crate training the pup to find a paper to soil when she has to go. Is that really what you want?

When the crate door is opened, she should be taken outside immediately, and I mean immediately, (you need to be ready to take her before opening the crate door) and praised up and down (high voice) after doing the right thing. Really make her know how happy you are with the behavior. Crate training happens very quickly, but the crate should still be used to prevent accidents, she is still a pup. Shortly you'll be able to uncrate her most of the day and she'll have enough capacity to make it a significant length of time. BTW, we always kept the crate right in front of the door, literally 2 steps away. Our dogs would get the door opened, the leash snapped on and we were out the door faster than you can read this. Sometimes they had to go so bad if there had been any delay they would have failed. Your job is to make sure they succeed so that you can praise and thereby teach them what you want from them. If she fails because you weren't ready, how does one correct her behavior? Alot of dog training is actually training the owner, no lie.

Yeah, dogs will make a heck of a racket when they don't get their way. But if you take her outside until she voids herself, withhold water, and then crated she should be OK for 5 hours. Remember they are pack animals and don't want to leave your side, but also remember that you are the master, and the dog needs to fit into your life, not the other way around. Unless you want the dog as your master - probably not what you want. But if you allow it the dog will assume the role.

About the biting. It's a natural way they play, but obviously, she can't bite. I allow all my dogs to mouth the hand, but no biting, and I tell visitors if they play with the dog what to expect, and not to pull the hand away. The way dogs tell one another what's too much is by leaving the offender alone and refusing to play. Not for a long time, just for that play session to make the point. When she wants to play later, if she bites again, repeat. Eventually she'll get the message. If she won't get the message confine her with your body. Hold her close to you and make sure she stays, or lay her on the floor and "sit" on her (no weight). What I mean by sitting on her would be to straddle her with your feet then lower down to the knees keeping the dog between your legs and holding her down with your groin- some minor weight, but not full body weight- use your hands and arms to keep her in place too. It helps to put her butt to a wall so that she can't back out, and holding the collar and being over her means she's trapped. She must stay there! Confine the dog for a few minutes (I don't mean seconds, but minutes- time them, don't just guess) to let the dog know that play is over (remember it's for biting) and to send the message that you're the boss. She'll fret, but eventually acquiesce. Before I used any of those methods I'd grab the dogs tongue and hold it so that if the dog did bite, it'd bite it's tongue first, another method I used was to shove my fist in it's throat. But I did that with Rottweilers, it's very hard for a dog to bite with a fist and lower arm in it's throat- it just wants it out and forgets all about biting. We've never had a dog that bit humans once trained. One of those techniques will work. I gave you all of them 'cause a puppy can be any size. The "sitting on" technique works great with dominance issues too.

OK, all that having been written, there are junk yard dogs, same as there are people who shouldn't be around other people. If your dog turns out to be that sort (again we don't have info) find someone who needs a junk yard dog. You don't need those problems.

[AlchemyAcres]

What MEBrain said!!!!!!!

Assuming the crate is properly sized, that's extremely important, there's nothing wrong with leaving her in the crate for a few hours.

Letting her go on the papers is a huge mistake, IMHO!!!!!


~Martin

[Grizzy]

Hey Idaholady :)

I started to reply and the others had not yet done so, but the phone rang before I could get it posted. I'm echoing alot of what MeBrian said in his post.. gosh his was jus great.. but mebe it'll help to read this one too.

The crate is the dog's personal space.. kinda like a bedroom to a child. A puppy will try all kinds of behavior with you to see who's going to be the boss, or how far the rules can be stretched, an sometimes will jus forget and do "uhohs". The crate is a place to be secure, but also a place to think about the uhoh's.

I don't like newspaper or pee pee pads because I think it sets a lil dog up to eyeball small carpets later on and think hmmmm. Here's how I did my crate training.

If 10pm is bedtime ok.. outside potty time and then into the crate. I like the leash because I can tug on it and say POTTY when the pup wanders and forgits why it's outside. I have control. She knows it and I know it. When the outing is successful there a big to do with lots of praise YAY YOU DID IT kinda thing and loving touches. Then in to the crate for the night and the harness (that stays on all day) comes off. I use a plastic flyflap for whining times and never hit the dog.. but rather slap the outside of the crate if the whining doesn't stop and say a firm NO. They jus git so quiet an wonder what that was all about haha but they do learn. It's not fun to be in there an hear that.

If 5 am is first call of the day.. it is one that is done outside. Then back into the crate until the 7 am time out. It doesn't take long for them to run out and if you would just be consistent with taking your dog outside (rather than falling back on newspaper) you'll be happier in the long run. They can get their wires crossed. Think about it. You go outside sometimes, you can go inside sometimes, they can easily get confused and it's not really fair to the pet. So for us here, it's outside ever time..

After the 7 am outing, if you are having a lil coffee.. let her run around for a bit (in the room where you are.. run of the house is asking for an uhoh to happen) and then into the crate. About 2 hours later offer the trip outside. Open the door to the crate and catch the harness and hook the leash and walk her to the door to go outside. YOU are in charge and she'll learn to follow the routine to the letter if you are consistent. The kindest thing you can do for a lil one that young is to offer as many potty trips outside as you can. She's growing quickly and soon this will all be behind you. If you can help her to be successful NOW.. she'll have confidence and have the routine ingrained. It's so awful to have to scold for the uhohs that will certainly happen.. coz they're still bebes but.. you have to show your disapproval.. the more times outside.. hopefully the less of these incidents you'll have.

Even with my adult dog.. shortly after a meal (within the hour) we go outside and I stay until I see a solid potty.

I love a crate for car rides. It's no different than a carseat for a child. It helps to keep the pet safe. Sometimes animals get carsick, too.. better in the crate than on your upolstery. A crate keeps an animal from getting away from you too, when doors open... all around it's better for the dog, in my experience.

If the dog is in and out of his crate at home, the car crate will be no trouble... make sense? And when all the training is done.. momma's bed can be the end of the day heaven spot. When I got my new dog, I would only allow her up there for a few minits to love an play but not to sleep. That had to be earned.

I will tell you this, I've trained with and without crating. I think it's easier on the animal and less headache for momma With.. the crate.

As far as the biting goes.. my newest lil girl was real toofy when I would hand her a treat. We got past that by my taking it back quickly when she would lunge for it with teeth and saying in a firm voice "NO BITE MOMMA" and the dog did not get that treat at that time (or toy). I talk to my dogs like they understand me and over the years I'm convinced they do because they are very well mannered and break themselves to please me.. they know what I want.. I tell them. Then I would offer a treat to the other dog who took it politely. My dog had the benefit of an older dog helping to show it what was expected. But even when I did not have that going on.. I made it known what was ok and what was a no no.. conSIStently.

I know I'm long winded.. sorry bout that.. and Good Luck!

(BTW.. I don't ever leave my dog locked in the car and jus go off when it's hot.. or bitterly cold.)

~Grizzy~

[Pokeberry Mary]

We've used crates too. I always opted to train dogs to go outside to do their business--but we've usually had big dogs. If you have a little bitty dog paper is more appropriate--like the kind folks put in carry on crates in airplanes--they need to know how to use paper or pads. German Shepherd.. not so much.

Nipping is not unusual in pups and eventually if you keep giving her a toy and scolding her she'll catch on that its a 'no no'. Our latest pup was a big nipper for quite a while but has learned--he was always after my feet!

He's just over a year now and that's all history, he's a great dog now.

I would use the crate any time you need a break or can't keep a close eye on the pup--or even when you just don't want to play.

Our dog still uses his sometimes. We sometimes tell him to go in there when we are going to be gone a while--but not always anymore. We also have him go in there if we are eating and he's being annoying looking at us--he eats AFTER we are done and only in his dish.

Dogs aren't like people at all.. they like to know who is boss and when they are sure you are they will be happy to do what you tell them. It does take time though. Mojo would rather I tell him to go in the cage anytime than wonder what he should be doing in a strange circumstance--he likes to do what he's told. He drove me nuts with nipping when he was little but time and patient firmness has done the trick. :)

[daffodil]

I don't think you ever break them after paper training. My dogs couldn't go out when they were puppies because they had no immunity (the mother was a stray and hit by a car when they were a week old). I had to paper train. They never got out of that as hard as I tried. They use pooch pads, 14 years later. My new puppy was already trained:). My sister made the same mistake and with all the money she put out for training they still go on pooch pads alot of the time.

[momma_to_seven_chi]

I don't think you ever break them after paper training. My dogs couldn't go out when they were puppies because they had no immunity (the mother was a stray and hit by a car when they were a week old). I had to paper train. They never got out of that as hard as I tried. They use pooch pads, 14 years later. My new puppy was already trained:). My sister made the same mistake and with all the money she put out for training they still go on pooch pads alot of the time.

My little ones go on piddlepads, especially the hairless ones. I can't let them go outside at all in the winter, so they have the piddle pads. The giant breed ones have tried to go on the piddle pads if they are inside, and have succeeded in flooding them if I don't watch them closely. They are pretty good about going outside as they grow up, but when they are babies they think they are chihuahuas and should use piddle pads.

The problem with a multiple dog house is that if any of them use piddle pads they ALL learn to want to use them. They train each other.

[leera]

I've never paper trained a puppy,I've always gotten up and dragged myself outside with them,no matter the time.Sometimes 3-4 times a night until they develop a large enough bladder to hold it all night.

I used to put the pup in the crate,and make no big deal about it,don't stand there are say "now be a good boy,or nite nite",things like that,if you make a big deal of it,they won't wanna do it.

Anytime you need to leave the pup unattended,put it in the crate,BUT you MUST ignore the whining and crying,and reward SILENCE,and only reward silence,never,ever let the pup out of the crate while it is whining.

As for in the car,I never used a crate,just simple attached the leash to the seatbelt,and when we started to move,I told pup to lay down,EVERY TIME we started to move.I started out with the pup in the front seat,then as he got bigger,moved him to the back seat,as a grown dog we didn't need a leash.

It takes a lot of time and patience,but in the end you end up with a very well behaved car ride a long buddy.

I used to work odd hours,well actually still do,but when I lived with my parents,I didn't want to wake them with a barking pup,so instead of teaching him to go to the door or bark,or paw at the door,I taught him to jump into an old chair by the door.Up until I moved out on my own,that was his cue for wanting to go out,he would get up in the chair and sit there....