North or South

[rivahmom]

I am able to purchase 30ac in Northern Maine or 10ac in the Ozarks. I really love the Maine property because the hunting is excellent and it is very isolated. However, how does one homestead when you only have a few months of good weather? How does the livestock fare? We live in Va now and we have a long growing season. So the Ozarks would match what I am accustom to and we could get more bang for the acerage. The Maine property would be our first choice if I knew we would be able to be self suficent there. So what do you think? Is it possible for someone who has never lived in far north to be self sustaining after the first year?

[Deberosa]

Personally I would pick the Ozarks. Winters are very difficult - I don't know how some do it with animals, though I know many on here do and would have good advice for you. I'm on the Olympic Peninsula so a couple of weeks in the teens is a hardship around here. ;-)

But in addition I generally get the impression that Maine is not really that friendly to newcomers. I see alot more people moving to the Ozarks instead. But that's just me and the experiences I've had around both places.

Check out your neighbors in either place for sure! That will make or break your experience in my opinion.

[rivahmom]

On our list of pros and cons the Ozarks win hands down. But Maine is so beautiful and the area is full of wildlife. I just can't figure out how others live up north. According to our estimation, we would not be able to have a home completly built with a garden, livestock pens, and aquire firewood before winter started if we moved in the spring of next year.

[DaleK]

To start with, I've never been south of northern Virginia, and that was just a day trip. Only been to Maine once, again a daytrip, to play football in university.

In general, living in the northern areas is less forgiving and takes a lot more planning and foresight. That can be good or bad depending on your personality. Procrastinators have a lot more second chances farther south. You'd better know your water lines are deep enough and your woodshed full enough when it hits -40 or -50.
For the most part you can grow vegetables just as well in the north as in the south, you just have to make sure you get it in and plant the right varieties for the area. Yes there are some things that won't grow, but there are some things that don't grow as well in the south as they do in the north. Plus a lot of crop or garden pests and diseases don't like winter either and aren't nearly as big an issue in the north.
Check the neighbours out.... not as big an issue in the north because you aren't likely to see them 3 or 4 months out of the year, you won't get sick of them as fast ::) Also it seems like criminals don't like to go out much in the winter so crime drops off while they hibernate.

Now, this picture was taken a little bit east of me, but this is what it looked like here last winter too. Just stare at it a while and see how you react.

http://talk.newagtalk.com/forums/get-attachment.asp?action=view&attachmentid=23290

[MYellowRose]

I've never been in Maine but I have been in the Ozarks, they're gorgeous, second only to the Rockies to my way of thinking. I've lived in western NC outside Burnsville so I'm also somewhat familiar with the Smokies.
If it were me I'd opt for the Ozarks so you'd have a longer growing season and you'd also be able to hunt, though maybe not the same thing, except deer I'm guessing, that you would in Maine.

[rivahmom]

I believe my lack of northern exposure would be our downfall if we decide to buy the land in Maine. We decided not to purchase any property farther north unless we can visit it during its worst time.

[Drawbar]

You can homestead in Maine of course, but it is tough. In fact the Amish have admitted that Maine was their last choice because of the hard winters, rocky soil and short growing seasons.

Deberosa is right, and most homesteaders here do not tend to last. Its tough...tough to farm and tough to homestead and its a trend that started in 1840 and has been going down ever since.

I am not sure where you were thinking about heading, as Maine is a big state but the farther north you go, the tougher it gets. Last winter in Caribou they had snow up to the telephone wires. I am not trying to scare anyone, its just the truth. Its a tough place to live.



http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y203/Tarastomsgirl/pole.jpg

[MooseToo]

*We decided not to purchase any property farther north unless we can visit it during its worst time. *


excellent advice no matter what region one is considering - even what neighborhood -

[Cowgirl]

Maine is pretty. But you may want to read some posts from the Mainer's here before you go thinking that is the land of Eden. If they are representative of the attitudes and life philosophies of Mainers, you might want to give it some thought. Search on "arson", for starters.

Short growing seasons are more challenging. You CAN grow a good garden in a short season, but it won't be as easy.

I love the Ozarks, personally. I think in general the region in more hospitable. Also, if you stick to gardening in a climate similar to what you are familiar with, your present knowledge base will be more useful to you.

[walls0stone]

Maine is hard and hard people in in Maine. I'd say it's extream and so are the people. God forbid if I lost this place, I'd move to Maine or New England. I like Cold and I need stone to make a living.. They advertise for stonnies up in New E all the time. They have tricks of the Traid in New E to deal with the cold and keep working.

That pic of Draw's was not the worst winter day..that day was so cold, the camera froze up... ;) ;D

[Deberosa]

Maine is pretty. But you may want to read some posts from the Mainer's here before you go thinking that is the land of Eden. If they are representative of the attitudes and life philosophies of Mainers, you might want to give it some thought. Search on "arson", for starters.

Short growing seasons are more challenging. You CAN grow a good garden in a short season, but it won't be as easy.

I love the Ozarks, personally. I think in general the region in more hospitable. Also, if you stick to gardening in a climate similar to what you are familiar with, your present knowledge base will be more useful to you.


Yeah Cowgirl, I was being as PC as possible. ;-)

Frankly Maine would be the last place I would move even if the temp was 70 degrees all year long after seeing some of the posts here.

[walls0stone]

Ya want to drag that beef into every single post?
How about the chicken posts...and your Make your won tampon posts...UUGGHH!
who are you people to tell another person how to live?

Is this sight about independence and living your own life, or telling people in other states whats right for them?

If you want, I'm sure we could bring this up over and over untill every single post is tanted and the sight is removed from the net for good.

What are you, children in a tree house?

[GoodDaughter]

Have you researched what the overall tax burden would be in Maine vs. Missouri or elsewhere? Most states have state income tax, but a few still don't, which is one reason I have stayed where I am. Another is property/school taxes... higher in some places than others, and if you buy a chunk of land can you bear the prop. tax every year? And what about all other taxes? We don't have sales tax on food here, but some states do.

I was looking to move out of state several years ago and really did my research into taxes, demographics, crime rate/type, real estate values, development trends, etc. I even found out some of the local newspapers online and read them to get an idea of what things were like in different areas, but I decided I really had the best options right here, so I chose not to move.

If you can afford taxes, and you want to escape the summer heat, perhaps Wisconsin or Minnesota would be nice? If I was able to afford the move, I'd choose Wisconsin myself.

[walls0stone]

great point GoodD.

we had a tax situation here that put one small part of our county in a heck of a bind...now you can't sell a house in the town of Wellsbro. Friend of mine, bought hoses for 80 cents on the dollar, now he can't sell them for 60 cents on the dollar. They are rented out to college students, but it's due to the jump in school taxes. Localy they tried to kick our taxes up..many taxes doubled or worse.

Imagine you get your dream house and then, rather than $5,000 a year i taxes your charged $25,000 or more!!!!! with out making Any changes to your land!

It put the area into an uproar sending many to county commisoner meeting...should have seen those buracrats sweat!

[jen_in_southtexas]

Yikes!! Those pics speak for themselves and were scary to look at. Of course I come from a hot climate so naturally I would choose the Ozarks. Plus you would be able to garden longer.

[Cowgirl]

The suggestion about doing your research on taxes ahead of time is an excellent one. There are a number of websites that compare tax burdens by state.

According to CNN, Maine ranked second in the nation on over-all tax burden last year. Missouri ranked 34th. Arkansas ranked 13th. There are different ways of calculating the tax burden, so you may want to review several different sites. How a state's tax structure affects you will depend on a variety of very individual factors.

http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2007/pf/0704/gallery.tax_friendliest/8.html

For example, some states do not tax your pension in their income tax structure, while others do. Also, property tax rates within a state vary dramatically. You would want to investigate local property taxes and how they are assessed prior to buying.

[GoodDaughter]

Something else you may want to consider is ag exemption on your property taxes. Most states/counties will not grant ag exemption status until you have had your qualifying livestock/crops/orchard etc already existing for a number of years. Here, I had to have my operation going for 5 years, and ag exemption was granted the 6th.

[walls0stone]

exemptions are almost useless in many places. if your not a full time production *farmer, and that's expencive. *I think you need to show that 70% of your income is Agg. *that also goes for the perks in my state.

Sure you can get Creep or whatever, but then they tell you what you can't do with your land...so that's no good.

If you were a full tiem farmer and had the right amount of land to have 70% of your income (and retirements can be counted in that number) *your going to be up to your ears in inspecters...

If your a Locovor, you'll want to know what you can have.

[WRTN]

Something else you may want to consider is ag exemption on your property taxes. Most states/counties will not grant ag exemption status until you have had your qualifying livestock/crops/orchard etc *already existing for a number of years. Here, I had to have my operation going for 5 years, and ag exemption was granted the 6th.

GoodDaughter is correct, a land use property tax classifiation can save huges amounts of money on property taxes provide you qualify. In Tennesee is is called Greenbelt. Below is a link to some information that covers this area:

http://www.padctn.com/green.htm

Most other states have a similar program.

[rivahmom]

Wow,

Thanks for all the great information. The area in Maine we were looking into was Caribou so I know I only have a few months to prepare for winter before getting snowed in for months. I never thought about the taxes. We live in VA so I'm taxed for everything but breathing now. I know there is very little industry in Caribou so we would be fully dependent on our property and wits to make money. If what everyone says is true and the locals are leary of newcomers, that would put a damper on some of our intended plans for income. I personally choose to live in the Ozarks but my husband from upper MI is leaning toward Maine.

[Drawbar]

WOS is right you can't drag that other thread into every post... I've said all I am going to say on that and will move on. The reply to this post was in good faith and what I write next will be in good faith.

Maine had the highest taxes per capita in the last few years. Now they are saying we dropped down to 15th, but don't let that sway you too much. The reason is not because the economy got better, the population got older. With so many young people moving out, we have a higher older population...many of them being retirees who are basically Maine residents in the Summer, and Florida residents in the winter. This reduces the overall tax load, while the property taxes remain paid, but flat.

The jobs aren't here, and what few their are are teetering on the brink of collapse since the winters are so long. The company I work for hires 200 people spread over several buildings, their fuel bill this year will be 167,000 bucks. When you heat in October to April, you use a lot more energy.

WOS is also right about that photo. It was a lot of snow, but it was not bad out. Last year it snowed every 3½ days...no kidding. Here is what plowing my driveway looked like when it was -20 below (without wind chill) and blowing 20 mph. As I said, life is indeed tough here.

http://www.railroadmachinist.com/images/Windy_Tractor.JPG

[AlchemyAcres]

I love Maine, but if I had a choice between Maine and the Ozarks, I'd pick the Ozarks.
All things considered....better climate...longer growing season.....building codes...the Ozarks make more sense!!!!


~Martin

[walls0stone]

what do you mean when you B-codes?
I personaly feel that if you wish to live in a shack..and be happy..fine. I would never say that if they customer says build A+ work, do F work..but that's diffrant. Ya want the grounds up on your outlets..fine...why should PA tell me what to do?

And besides, many of the Mc Mannors in big areas were done crummy any how with a slip 0'green to the inspecters.

Martin, Look at Woodchuck, or don't you know him? He seems happy....

[AlchemyAcres]

::) Have another beer! (or whatever) Missouri has minimal building codes...try to keep up!!!! That IS the point!



~Martin

[walls0stone]

less than here? *Good..that's what I was asking, you we not clear.
you said "building codes"...use more words

in other words..we agree, shocking since we don't normaly.
you may have ment that you like them. *

[AlchemyAcres]

::)


~Martin

[AlchemyAcres]

You didn't ask...you bloviated!!!!!
Asking is NICE...you didn't ASK!



~Martin

[GoodDaughter]

Martin--- ;D

Rivahome, I think you can live wherever you want to, regardless of what anyone says. You may have to adjust your habits and lifestyle to make it happen, but lots of people live in harsh northern climates and their worlds don't stop turning when winter sets in. Look at the articles Jackie Clay writes; she is a shining example of what is possible with a halfway decent place, a good attitude and lots of sweat and work. No matter where you live, there is going to be something to contend with. Here, it is the intense heat and humidity that comes from living so close to the Gulf coast. It's 'hot' basically from mid-April until the end of October. Right now, my garden is empty, and has been for the last month while awaiting mid-Sept. planting. We get occasional hurricanes and tropical storms, we have fire ants, forest fires, waves of illegals, but overall, I really think I am best off right here. If I were to move up north somewhere, there would be winter with snow and ice, tornadoes, etc. No matter where you go, there's going to be something negative to deal with, maybe even arson or hostile 'natives'. But you can overcome whatever you choose to, if you want it badly enough. Nay-sayers thrive on telling others they can't do this or that; I guess it gives them some sense of power in some odd way.

Just go for whatever you want, after careful research!

[patriotchick]

I live in Maine, although it does snow....I have never been "snowed in for months" a day maybe, but if you can drive in snow you can still get around. As for cold, its cold...but not unbearable unless you need to be out for hours, then you dress accordingly. I have had horses and goats in winter, and they were fine. Maine animal laws mandate they have shelter, but I never had any problems due to winter and animals. I plant a garden, right now i have beans, peas, corn, cukes, squash etc etc etc. Everything is growing and I will have enough to put some up for winter.
Taxes are not great here, and jobs in rural maine are getting scarce, but depending on what you plan on doing, you may be able to find work.
My advice, do not buy any land that is under LURC control, that is the land use regulatory commission, they can dictate to you what you can do on your own land....not something independent people like.
As far as Maine people being less welcoming than other states, I do not see that. I do however see a large influx of "people from away" who come here to escape city living then complain that there isnt a starbucks on the corner, or think that the view of a cow field. potato field or papermill is ruining their maine experience, so they try to get the farmer run out on a rail or attempt to close the mills...I dont care where you are from, those types are not welcome anywhere.
All in all, from my own personal experience, I like living in Maine, I have lived here all my life. We do truly get all four seasons and I think it just makes us appreciate them all even more.
As for the arson thing...I have never burnt anyones house down...although "keep it up and you will come home to a pile of ashes" is a common joke (usually between friends), I have never known anyone to follow through with it, and have not read about it being a large problem in any newspapers.

[sawyerob]

Wow,

Thanks for all the great information. *The area in Maine we were looking into was Caribou so I know I only have a few months to prepare for winter before getting snowed in for months. *I never thought about the taxes. *We live in VA so I'm taxed for everything but breathing now. *I know there is very little industry in Caribou so we would be fully dependent on our property and wits to make money. *If what everyone says is true and the locals are leary of newcomers, that would put a damper on some of our intended plans for income. *I personally choose to live in the Ozarks but my husband from upper MI is leaning toward Maine. *

The U P of Mi. isn't nearly as bad (read COLD) as Caribou Maine is. Many times on the weather, Caribou is colder than Alaska!
If he wants to go to Maine, let him go, don't worry he will be back soon enough. lol
SR

[Catalpa]

Why not come back to Michigan? ;D Our economy is in the tank, but that can work for you if you're looking to simply homestead, and not make millions, and if you want to buy property - especially further north in the state. There's quite a bit for sale at good prices. We have an excellent growing season, folks are friendly - if you don't pull stunts like patriotchick referred to - and while we do get snow, I have yet to be snowed in for more than a few days. It'd be a good mix between the climate of the Ozarks and the hunting available in Maine.

Just my .02.

[StephiLou]

I would also do research into what the stand is on NAIS where ever it is you are looking. While the party line is that it is "voluntary", many state are requiring registration one way or another.

Here in Illinois this year, the kids can't show at the Fairs unless the animal is from a NAIS registered farm. Nice. :-X >:(

Steph

[walls0stone]

Farms are complex, so the tax qualifications, rules and regs are confusing, butif somone did go that route you may find other options for income that don't sound like agg...small bluestone pits for example are under the agg in PA. *THis means you don't worry about big pit inspections..

so in other parts of the world, you may find somthing you had not thought of for extra income.

[Drawbar]

I would also do research into what the stand is on NAIS where ever it is you are looking. While the party line is that it is "voluntary", many state are requiring registration one way or another.

Here in Illinois this year, the kids can't show at the Fairs unless the animal is from a NAIS registered farm. Nice. :-X >:(

Steph

Steph I would say its coming to every state in the very near future. Sheep Farmers already have it, and have had it for years, its called the Scrappie Program and its very easy to deal with

Our cows are in the voluntary program too and its really no big deal. A tag, some paperwork and a vet visit and if something ever comes of a sheep or cow that I have owned, I REALLY want to know about it as well no matter where it is living at the time of the problem.

[StephiLou]

Oh I know. The theory is ok. Unfortunately, it makes it so much harder for somebody like us, who only wants to raise enough for their own family. The bad thing is that the big operations are the ones who get away with murder - literally - on the backs of the little people who foot the bill.

Pass off the soapbox. LOL!

Steph

[AlchemyAcres]

NAIS.....government control of private property and one more nail in the coffin of America's small farms!
A quick-fix program that will cost billions to, supposedly, compensate for the poor management of a few....yep....sounds like a winner of a program to me! ::)
Welcome to the United Socialist States of America!


~Martin ::)

[StephiLou]

No joke. We are trying to get the money up to get privacy fencing around our house property right now. We want to raise some bunnies or chickens in the backyard (almost an acre), but because of the "regulations" we aren't supposed to.

We will have to raise "guirilla chickens" (sp?) - have to cammo the chicken tractor ::)

People around here tend to think much more of themselves than everybody else does. Untill we can get somebody in the council, things aren't going to change too much.

My sister just bought a place on 7 acres. Because they are in the city "buffer zone" they aren't even allowed to have chickens on their property!!! They can have 2 horses - but nothing else! When asked, the council's response was that horses are "pretty" and make outsiders think that there is money here. ::) :o

Steph

[walls0stone]

That's funny, you can have a chicken in NYC, but not in your town. What if you had a fancy chickeen with lots of wonderful color? tell them it's an exotic um, parrot yea that's it..

Or get geese, want money...we got golden eggs.

[StephiLou]

That's funny, you can have a chicken in NYC, but not in your town. *What if you had a fancy chickeen with lots of wonderful color? *tell them it's an exotic um, parrot yea that's it..

Or get geese, want money...we got golden eggs.
LOL! They are trying to make the town more "cosmopolitan" - like being completely surrounded by cornfields and having an empty factory about every 2 miles make this THE place to be! ::)

Our biggests claims to fame are dead or at least not living here (or both!) - Dick/Jerry Van Dyke, Bobbie Short, Donald O'Connor, and Gene Hackman. All from Danville - and I know for a fact a least 3 of 'em had chickens!

Steph

[walls0stone]

I named some note worthy people who lived around here to some younger people and they didn't even know the names.

What state are you in?

This is funny, you say horses, but another place has found that all the "hobby farmers" who had horses gave in faster. *they just burn hay and cost a TON in vet bills...and you can't even eat them.

Tell the town that you have the only living decendents of Van Dykes famouse Chicken...the one he used in the famous Mullagen scetch featureing Dean Martin and Jane Mansfield!