Thoughts on Raised Beds with Rocks

[jjspirko]

I am been slowly improving my Arkansas mountain place (5 acres but a lot of steep land) and am now about a year from leaving my city home. The place is beautiful but very rugged. On the more level land (the highest points) it is very rocky, crappy soil with lots of rock. I am planning to do all my gardening with raised beds.

I have thought that using the rocks (which are everywhere and free for the taking even on the surrounding land) to build the beds.

Advantages

1. If I use mortar they will last damn near forever, at least for my life time that is for sure.

2. Only thing to buy will be the mortar and fill soil and I have to buy soil anyway.

3. It would look very natural almost like it was part of the landscape.


Disadvantages

1. I will have to learn as I go. I have never built a brick wall let alone tried to fit random rocks together.

2. Seems a lot harder then building them from wood. It would cost more but be much easier to use timbers.

3. It will take a lot longer to build rock beds so my production will take longer to get off the ground.

Your thoughts? Anyone build beds with rock before? Anyone got any pictures?

I figure I can take a three day weekend each month from here on out and build about one bed (I want big beds) per 2-3 visits. I have at minimum 6 planned, more likely it will be 8. At that rate I will move there next year with only three beds for my first year. I could get by on that and I guess hell then I will have "forever" to build the rest of em.

[AlchemyAcres]

Nothing wrong with rocks other than the extra work.
Have you considered standing rocks up on end to build the perimeter?
I've done that withr some beds.

Most all on my beds are earthen...it's cheap...no wood or stone or whatever around the perimeter,,,,.I do dig a perimeter trench to discourage voles.


~Martin :)

[walls0stone]

large stones will have an r value that can help keep your beds warm at night in the fall. it's also free draining so your beds will hold water..but not to much

[jjspirko]

@walls0stone

I am really enjoying your posts, thanks for pointing out the heat retention issue. I really had not thought about that but indeed stone will have a much better impact on over night heat retention compared to timbers. Heck all that rock may attract a snake or two but unlike most I am quite fond of snakes.

The biggest part of the job is going to be collecting the many tons of rock, hauling it to the location and unloading it. Clearing and leveling the land, amending the soil, etc I have to do anyway. I pretty much know this is the right thing to do. I ain't scared of the work it is just hot as hell in Arkansas in the summer and collecting and hauling rock in July won't be fun.

@AlchemyAcres

What exactly do you mean by " Have you considered standing rocks up on end to build the perimeter?"

Do you mean just basically getting a bunch of big rocks and standing them up in like one layer in the outline of the bed, no mortar, no stacking and just burming the earth from that point. Basically an all earth mound with some rock for simple reenforcement? If so I think I would rather do them two to three high and go ahead and do the mortar work (if I don't screw it up to bad).

[walls0stone]

if a person builds a wall around a garden, it will do the same if not more. also tall walls around gardens help keep out weeds

[MadTripper]

I believe Martin means you get some large, flat rocks and bury a portion with the other portion sticking out of the ground. My neighbors have done this and it works well and also looks nice. Think of the way your teeth protrude from your gums.

Additionally, don't be so set on mortar. We have loose stone walls that have stood for a hundred years or more in our area. The key is to get some nice base rocks down in the ground. I plan on doing one in the near future so perhaps I can take a few photos of my progress.

[walls0stone]

base rocks should be the largest stones..mortared walls are weaker than dry stone walls for many reasons. don't use soil..it won't last long at all

the act of buring stones upright in a trench is sort of vertical walling.. as a pro, I'll tell you most stone walling books don't tell the secrets of walling.

just so you know I'm not talking out of my ear...
mountianeerstone.com

[AlchemyAcres]

I believe Martin means you get some large, flat rocks and bury a portion with the other portion sticking out of the ground.

Yes, exactly.

~Martin

[JakeLeg]

while this is not a recommendation for or against, i'd consider, if i were you, the ability to work the soil once the bed is raised. are you going to be able to lift a tiller into the bed? is the bed large enough in length and width that turning the tiller around is possible? or are you going to work the soil with a digging fork and a hoe? the larger the bed the easier it'll be to run around there with equipment.

i'd also shy away from mortar. unless you put a footing in at the frost line, then your mortar will be cracked after one winter. a quality dry-stack will last for a very long time, and will allow better drainage to boot.

[jjspirko]

Thanks for all the replies/suggestions so far you guys rock.

First that site is amazing, check out some of the work they have done, http://www.mountaineerstone.com/portfolio.asp

My aspirations are a bit more modest, these need to be

1. Deep enough to grow my plants
2. Look nice enough to make the wife happy

I think a good idea may be for me to start small and build a small one for her for flowers and such in the front yard. It will be a smaller project and have her buy in from the get go and give me a starting place.

I also think ya'll have me convinced to forgo any mortar. Seems like a bad and unnecessary idea and on top of it not using it will be easier for me and cost less too. My concern was never the wall falling but the soil eroding out. I don't see me cutting perfect fits like that stuff on that website. I was thinking some small ornamental ground cover planted in some of the gaps on the outside may be a great solution to that?

[walls0stone]

Thank God,
Ye hath seen the light... no mud!
what kinds of stones do you have in your area?

I'll walk you threw it

[jjspirko]

Thank God,
Ye hath seen the light... no mud!
what kinds of stones do you have in your area?

I'll walk you threw it


Well first I am one stubborn SOB when it is a subject I know well. However, my redemption is that I "know what I don't know" and always am willing to take the advice of those that have been there and done that. So when three folks all say the same on something new to me, you bet I get on board with the plan.

Now on what kind of rock, what I have is a mix of granite and quartz. Then there is some granite and quartz and next to that is some granite and a bunch of quartz. ;D

I am thinking gathering up the stone will be as much or more work then building the beds. And boy that stuff is rough, sharp and heavy.

[walls0stone]

You can say...I've done my time.

all you need to do is a single corse of one man granit...

http://www.pct.edu/pctoday/alumni/Transition_Bridge_Craftsman_s_Latest_Contribution_ to_Penn_College.shtml

[LeatherneckPA]

The year was 1971, and I got my first life lesson that I can honestly say I remember. Our 150 yr old farm house burned down, leaving only two rooms. Dad took the check to the only contractor in our small town and was told he couldn't do it for less than twice that amount. Dad said he could build it himself for less than 3/4 of the check. We did, in a series of building summers and finishing winters. Lesson learned, the power of determination.

Fast forward to 1974. A friend dug the trenches for the foundation of the next addition to the house with his backhoe. And then Dad broke his back at work. He was a miserable cur that summer, in a cast from knee to arm pit. He would supervise construction from his post, leaned up against the butternut tree, back away from the trench. I was 15 and in the trench. Kenny and Tom were 13 and 12. Their job was mixing mortar and keeping me supplied. Jack was 11 and he was charged with keeping the rocks coming. I couldn't tell you the ages of the three foster kids, but they were all around 11 or 12. This rag tag collection of teenage boys built a field stone foundation measuring 66 feet long by 8 feet high. It started out 3 feet wide at the bottom and tapered to 18 inches.

The point is, it's not rocket science. With some reading, some knowledge, and some encouragement anybody could do it. Most people balk at the unknown, lacking self confidence.

The questions about tilling and working the soil bring up valid points. You bounce a tiller off one of those granite rocks and you stand a good chance of twisting something inside your back that shouldn't be twisted. You can't help but try to hold the course. But the motor has already decided to go elsewhere.

May I suggest, next time you are at the library check out a book titled Lasagna Gardening by Patricia Lanza (ISBN 0-87596-962-3 retails for $15.95). You may just find that you don't have move those tons of rocks.

[MooseToo]

a well-managed raised bed eventually requires little or no tilling -
i'd build rock-walled beds much the same as i'd eat an elephant - bite at a time - even if it takes a long time, the bed could be planted, then expanded, then planted, then expanded, etc -

[walls0stone]

I'm leary of many books...much of my stone knowlage has come from hands on with lots of time..the books on the markeet contradict what I've been told...inpart due to a loss of the art and craft of stone work...

Moose did you get that expretion ? :)

[jjspirko]

I am not to worried about tilling as Moose said it isn't that hard with a good and well amended bed. I have an electric tiller that I use at my home in Texas it ain't really powerful and would not do anything against a rock said MAY BE get a chip. It is one of them 18VDC ones that shares batteries with my weed wacker etc. I pretty much only use it to work in compost etc. I pretty much do the big digging by hand.

I ain't afraid of hard work or nothing. I built great beds at my main house with timbers I just think that rock ones will look so much more natural and nicer not to mention last for a 100 years. I am starting to feel pretty good about getting it done right We are going up for the July 4 weekend. I talked to the wife and decided to build her a small one for flowers and what not in the front part of the land. That will let me get some experience, better plan how long it will all take and win her over on the idea. Multi tasking isn't just for the office and the computer world you know.

[jjspirko]

Here is the little tiller I use for my beds

http://www.blackanddecker.com/ProductGuide/Product-Details.aspx?ProductID=15812

I can do about two 3 x 12 foot beds on one battery and I have 4 batteries. I don't really use it much but I had the weed eater already and found this with two batteries at a pawn shop barely used for 40 bucks! Nifty little tool for the hobby garden.

[CarolAnn]

JSperko,
I'm a little hesitant to show my Arkansas rock herb and flower beds here because WallsOStone is a professional. But since I won't be able to actually HEAR his snickers or gasps of horror, here goes.

My house is built into a pretty steep hill; a 60% grade in some places! It's earth sheltered, so I needed to rock up both sides and put in steps on the down slope to the woods. I did NOT know what I was doing, and thank heaven I didn't try mortar. I just used some dirt and clay and tried to get them as level as I could. It won't last forever - in fact, when kids climb on it, I just cringe, knowing they can pull it down (on top of them) very easily. But for me, it worked. I just used an adze to pick out a terrace to start with, filled it with some good creek bottom soil, moved up a level and did it again - all the way to the top.

I also put several kinds of creeping sedums in the dirt between the stones and they flourished and spread. When they're in bloom, it's breathtaking. (And you also can't see as much of my rock work then!) *;)

http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w246/carolwyborny/Herbgarden.jpg

My stone is all sandstone.
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w246/carolwyborny/cats3.jpg

http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w246/carolwyborny/houseandsteps3.jpg

http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w246/carolwyborny/myrockterrace.jpg

This one is the stone path across my roof garden:
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w246/carolwyborny/rooftop.jpg

This isn't stone, but it's my first effort at building something with peeled cedar logs.
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w246/carolwyborny/trellis.jpg

[walls0stone]

I won't laugh at you here, but if you like I can could send you an MP3 of my laughter...KIDDING! JK!!!!

[CarolAnn]

That's OK, - I'm used to the sound of laughter - like when I picked up a rock with a copperhead under it. You ever seen a fat lady go airborne? And I didn't go back to see if the falling rock killed it, either! I had to tell my neighbor he was likely to get ticks, rolling on the ground like that.

I just wanted to show that I think people should TRY things, even if they're not sure they can do it. Practice makes improvement!

[jjspirko]

Well I am inspired that is one beautiful place.

Sorry to hear about the poor snake though, :'( I really like snakes, I mean I have respect for venomous ones but I still really like them.

[mom]

I don't know about using rocks but I do encourage the use of raised beds. When hubby and I got back here and started to reclaim, we thought through every obstacle that an older person might encounter and planned everything that way. I mean we aren't getting younger and we didn't want to have to be crawling around on our hands and knees when we are ancient. Raised beds sure help

[Jamie]

We are in Southern Oregon, We have very rocky and clayish soil. The place we bought already had a small garden with raised beds. We have 8 children and needed something bigger without taking alot of time or money.
So, we are doing the lasagna gardening that was mentioned earlier. We could have used rocks to border the garden but that takes lots of time and back muscle. Neither of which we have alot of. We are on a mountain and our land is VERY sloped as well. That is great for drainage but hard to haul heavy things up to the garden.
If you want to see what we have done, you can see our blog, www.thefergyfarm.com I posted some updated pictures of our garden. If you poke around you can see we have an abundance of rocks, our Very long driveway is lined in a mini rock wall.

Tell the wife you don't need the rocks, just layer and plant.

Hope that helps you some.

[HockeyFan]

If worried about the beds retaining too much water, just make a few weap holes for drainage.

[walls0stone]

Lift with the legs, and remember..dry stone is free draining.
many stone people prep before work.. yoga ect. Many in the business are very nimble and have kept in wonderful physical shape...most are older than I.

[Drawbar]

I've made many, many rockwalls and while I don't have a garden, I have made plenty of raised flower gardens out of rock. I never had any issues, other then the drainage issue. That you get with all kinds of raised beds though, the water tends to drain out.Not an issue here in moisture-laden Maine, but it might mean doing a lot more watering.

Still who cares? There is something to be said for using what you got, and having it last forever. Here is my latest patio project. Its still in construction, but I think its looking good.




http://www.railroadmachinist.com/images/Patio-small.JPG

[walls0stone]

This is my last project...well of intrest
see what you started with the rocks!
http://www.pct.edu/pctoday/alumni/Transition_Bridge_Craftsman_s_Latest_Contribution_ to_Penn_College.shtml