Hiring Help / Your Suggestions Wanted

[Native87]

I have gotten to a point here on my little farm that I am going to ned som outside hlp. Sadly, this areas unmployment is bad and I really do want to help someone out if I can. I am going to do this two diffrent ways. #1 I am bartering. I am trading goats, firewood and fenceposts for hours worked. It works out to be about $9.38 pr hour is what they earn. If I have nothing of use to the person then I can only afford about $8.50 an hour. Of course th work I have is hard but I am good person to work for. I am not a slave driver but I do expect honest work for honest pay. I have a strong work ethic and I want as much out of other folks. I do lower my expctations some bcause I have been told by employers to slow down and take it a little easier and etc. This is no brag, just saying.

My question to yall out there is do you think this is fair enough wage? What questions would you ask if you were hiring someone to work for you? What would YOU want to know in a interview? Are there anything else you would require?

Also the way I am working it is that said person is considered a contractor/self employed so to speak. Safety is a number ONE concrn in my privatelife plus anyone around me. I have a realase of liability form that must be signed before they can step foot here. If someone chooses to be careless etc. they will be asked to leave IMMEDIATELY.

As far as the barter part goes. If said person does not work out, they will be paid the cash money rounded up to the nearest half hour.

So please folks let me know what YOU would do. Tell me how YOU would work this. Any and ALL suggstions will be considered. Thank You all in advance for your time thinking about this. Have a great day. ~ Terry


P.S. My "e" "E" ky isnt working to great. Forgive the exclusion of any spelling. hehehe :)

[indyguy]

Your wages are too low to find anyone willing to bust a sweat.

I doubt you will get by hiring someone as a "contractor" when they are performing general farm labor. IRS will want all the contractors info when you file his 1099 such as tax ID numbers and with the new regs coming into effect he will now have to report on YOU as well.
Also anyony working this arrangement is cheating themselves on SS and going to take a hit at tax time.
You will need to carry workers comp no matter how safe your farm is and if It were me I would incorporate to limit liability.

Something most people dont realize is that if you are injured working your farm and have health insurance provided by a employeer they consider the farm a second occupation and will refuse claims for farm injuries.

[Aamylf]

Yep, the government and the lawyers (one and the same?) have made it so it is virtually impossible to just "hire" good help. If you barter, they still owe taxes on it. If you pay them anything, you need to either hire them as an employee, withhold FICA, etc. and file daunting paperwork.

And an injury? A good lawyer will sue you and the injured will own your farm.

Not a lot of help, huh? I don't know how it is to work for room and board...I don't know if you could hire a homestead "intern" to learn how to be a homesteader...and circumvent some of the nonsense.

I would never suggest anyone simply pay someone under the table as that is illegal, but it seems to be a common practice.

As for cheating someone out of SS...depends on how old they are, they probably won't get anything anyway.

[Junie]

You can hire itinerate workers without taking out taxes or social security. There's only a certain amount you can pay before they're considered employees, but you'd have to look that up. I don't know what it is anymore. It used to be $6,000.

I would recommend a background check and drug testing (you can buy a kit at Walmart for that)

[Native87]

Thank You so much so far for the opinions and suggestions.

Indyguy- You are correct about what I can pay. I do hope that somone out there is a little like most of us are here on this forum. You will still give honst effort if you or your family are hitting hard times. I at one time was begging for work at no matter what rate. My familys well bing comes before anything. I figure if I am paying anything over minumum wage that maybe somebody needs it. The truth is I will bend over backward to help deserving folks. This is all I can afford and I could not sleep well withiout knowing I am doing what I can.

Aamylf- LOL Yes govrnment and lawyers are the same in my opinion. :) I dont know but maybe we are just talking about what I am calling my help. Wether an employee or an intern. I would really like to find someone that wants to learn. I am a really good and patient teacher and I really do want younger folks to not forget what alot of us line of work and living is. An intern is an interesting prospect. I may think some more on that but I can say that they will mak more than 400 dollars a month and a place to pitch a tent. That is what intrns around here can expect for 40-50 hours of work. I just hope to do btter than that. Thanks for your suggestion.

Junie- Thank you very much for your input. I can tell you now that they wont be making 6,000 off of me. This is only temporary and part time for the rest of this summer into the fall. I am hoping to continue to grow so that one of these days I can offer some work for the right candidate. It is a shame that with unemployment and etc being what it is that nobody can try to give a hand up instead of hand out without the blame government and other scum to stick their nose in it. It is going to be something else when this whole siuation plays out. NOBODY will be able to hire opr expect help. What a mess this place is in.

Thgank you for your time. Keep the ideas flowing folks. :)

[momma_to_seven_chi]

Have you considered simply hiring someone for a specific task now and then rather than hiring an employee? Much easier to deal with any paperwork if they are an independent contractor rather than an employee. No fica, no extra insurance for workmen's comp, etc.
Just hiring a teen boy to stack wood for 10 hrs one weekend and another person to help build the chicken house for a couple of days , and someone to mow once a week as an independent contractor, would be a lot easier than trying to hire a full time employee.

Hiring independent contractors per job where you pay them and let them take care of any tax issues, is just easier. That way it is their problem not yours just like when you hire any service work.

[Native87]

Yes mom. This is what I was talking about. I dont want a full time person just want help with fencing some of my field work maybe some hlp on a limitd basis for other cleaning up jobs around my proprty. You are describing what I was looking for better than I. Thanks. :)

ETA..... I still want to ask the right questions etc. before I let anyone do ANYTHING hre. That is more what I am trying to get right. Many more minds are alot better with what I need or should ask than just my own.

[Aamylf]

A bit OP, but in a meeting today, we reviewed that our normal UC costs are $20,000 a month, but last month they were $80,000. No we haven't fired more people, but no one is dropping off from month to month and the mediators feel so sorry for people that even when we fire someone for theft, they are winning UC! I mean this almost literally -- if this continues, we will be 900 employee business in danger of having to close our doors! And we are probably going to cancel our health insurance as soon as Obamacare kicks in and just pay the $2000/employee fine, which is about $3,000 less per employee than we pay now! These are crazy times.

If you hire for a specific job, then you have few worries except injuries.

[cinok]

One thing I would look into carefully is your states laws for Workmans comp. Even if you hire a contractor or a 1099 someone as an independent contractor you may still be liable for injuries if they are not properly covered. I know this sounds petty but an example of another kind of trouble is if you have modified any of your equipment IE pto shft guards or even something as trival as a side chute on a lawn mower. If you modifierd any of these and the person is injured "due" to these modifications things can become a tangled mess. One more thing in regard to equipment in some areas it is illegal to run a tractor without a ROPS unless it is the owner running it.
Dont mean to sound paraniod but we have worked hard for what we have and need to protect it.

[BonnyLake]

If you have ties to your community or are able to use Craig's List ~ I would put the word out that you are looking for a "handyman/women". At least for your first go-around.

You can get references from their happy customers instead of tiresome background checks and invasive drug-testing. They will price or bid on the individual jobs and you won't need to worry about a wage system, this will also tell you what the going rates for the work being done in your area are and any over/under$$ do to the work load can be addressed ahead of time so you can budget it. They can also use barter as a partial payment, then give you a reciept when the job is done so you can take it off any profits you have to declare.

There's minimal paperwork for you doing it this way becasue it's on the handy-person to do it. You could ask if they are licensed, insured, bonded (or not) ~ that way you have no liability if they get hurt on your place or worse yet, wreck something they are doing for you, or steal your best tools in their lunchboxes.


Another idea ~ speaking of interns, contact local FFA for interested students. Sometimes there are programs that will pay the kid's wages to go learn a trade. Don't know how you would qualify to be a teacher, but maybe they can tell you that. This will be a lifelong project for you, finding help, so establishing yourself as a viable farm to work for would be a good thing.


P.S. ~ I would never recommend having anyone sign liabilty documents to work for you, that implies too much and they can be beat easily with even the worse lawyer, third party liabilty is the best thing going in insurance claims.

Good Luck, Bonny

[jonvee]

My only suggestion would be to hire for a specific project at a specific amount earned. A lot of times hourly workers have mastered dragging out a project to earn more money, but if you pay by the project they tend to work faster and better.

[AzLoneRider]

Native,
My son would take that job if he were in the area... he's great unskilled labor. It sounds like what your looking for is a kid who can work hard all day under your direction or a person who is skilled and is willing to hire out to get the job done and earn a bit of money for your family. I would, or my son would take that job. If you hire a kid say 11-12 on into older teens be prepared to give a lot of instruction/supervision. If you find an experienced adult be prepared to check work regulary to ensure he/she knows what they're doing....
Work like this is do-able... my son works for a fellow at 8.00 dollars an hour to help around his shop, ie sweep, put tools away, generally clean and in the process the person teaches my son a thing or two about machining metal or woodwork each time he's there.
I hire out to do landscaping to the same person at a considerably higher price, however. I go to his house once a month with my family of four and in 2-3 hours weed, plant, do a couple of odd projects like install a 30 foot flagpole for 200$ a month. It works out because he knows we will be there each month and his very detailed yard will be manicured, he will get odd projects done and we will be out of his hair quickly.

What you're looking to do can be done you just have to find the right people...

[Pokeberry Mary]

In our area unemployment is pretty high. I often see ads in Craigslist that people will trade stuff for work.

Some contractors are even offering to do jobs in exchange for household goods etc..

I would just put an ad in Craigslist or up at a feedstore if your area doesn't have an active Craigslist. We live near a big city so Craigslist works well for us.

Say what you have and what you need done--and if someone is willing to do a certain job for a goat or whatever-- let them.

I've even see landlords rent places to people who will fix them up for free or small amount. I looked at an old mobile before we bought this place. It was awful. We looked at again a few months after the landlord had a guy fixing it up in exchange for rent it was like new.

Obviously it worked out for them.:)

[momma_to_seven_chi]

One thing I would look into carefully is your states laws for Workmans comp. Even if you hire a contractor or a 1099 someone as an independent contractor you may still be liable for injuries if they are not properly covered. I know this sounds petty but an example of another kind of trouble is if you have modified any of your equipment IE pto shft guards or even something as trival as a side chute on a lawn mower. If you modifierd any of these and the person is injured "due" to these modifications things can become a tangled mess. One more thing in regard to equipment in some areas it is illegal to run a tractor without a ROPS unless it is the owner running it.
Dont mean to sound paraniod but we have worked hard for what we have and need to protect it.

That's what property insurance is for, and why so many people are hiring independent contractors per job and even demanding they, as the contractor, carry the insurance. People are so litigation oriented nowdays, or perhaps I should say insurance companies are. It's never just a simple cut, its a big issue now. When we were kids, if you were shoveling snow for the neighbor for five dollars, and got hurt, you just got over it unless it was a huge injury. But now, everything is huge. And state laws do vary widely too., so you are right.

Years back, there was a 50ish yo woman who got cut on a knife, about two inches near the elbow at a restaurant franchise my husband managed. She had no hospital visit, no stitches, honestly it was a two inch cut on her forearm not even deep enough for stitches, very minor. She hired a good lawyer,sued them and got 1500 dollars for the scar. Unbelievable. It was just a scratch.

There was another woman, much younger who had dropped boiling water down her front when a pan full of corn on the cob slipped out of her hands. It was really, really a bad 2nd degree burn on her breasts and belly that demanded a skin graft. Really bad. She was flown to the burn unit where she stayed for two weeks. She had a few minor burns on her arms and hand too, but the worst was her breasts. She got a lousy $8000 because the insurance company said she was fat, so it wasn't disfiguring for her because she would never wear a bikini anyway due to the fat. The difference--- no lawyer. She was really injured too. We always felt she was treated unfairly even though she dropped it on herself.

It's like nobody is safe from crooked ins companies and lawyers.

[Native87]

Thanks everyone for your input. I knew I could count on yall.
AzLoneRider- If you al wre here in this area I would take him on in a heartbeat. It is so important for young boys and girls to learn as much as they can. I have done my best to teach all my kids as much as possible. One takes in all he can. My daughter does pretty well also. My oldest son is leaving next month for college and he never was all that interested in any of it. But he has done his part. Everyone here has responsibilities and that is VERY important. Sounds like you have raised yours the same. One of these days everything we have strived to teach them wil come back in bits and pieces and they wil be glad they had a Dad like that.

I love teaching what I do know. If someone is willing to listen, I got time and patience to spare.

[Bones]

I have a couple teenage girls I have hired for various work around the place. I have paid them 10 an hour to clean out my workshop, then I they dug footers, mixed concrete and placed the concrete for my greenhouse. They leveled sand for under the swimming pool the wife bought and right now I am using them to help replace windows and siding on the house. Hard workers for the most part. I just think of them as my young Seabees I used to have to train only I can't use quite as harsh language with them. If I could only harness the energy they use when they are talking I could power my house for a month.

[Anon001]

Almost all the extra work I've had done has come from Craig's List. There was one boy lived a mile away that I had helping a couple times. He wasn't very tall, maybe 5'10", and didn't look very muscular but had the strength and power of ten oxen. lol He also grew up farming and ranching and knew how to work.

He went into the Marines last fall. I was sad to see him go since I lost good help.

There are people out there that are willing to work hard. The only thing I disagree with you on is the wage.

What is a fair wage? In my mind, it's a wage I can afford and the least (and still be legal) someone is willing to do the work for. Is it fair? If we both accept the terms I consider it very fair. lol

Paul