Emergency seeds

[laf1110]

Hi there, this is my first post. Hope I will not annoy anyone with this question as I am sure it has been asked before but didn't see it here. We are saving lots of seeds this year from our plants but I am interested in getting some long term storage seeds in case SHTF. I would like another option other then freezing as I am concerned about power failures. I know that Baker Creek sells a kit but it seems pretty expensive to me and I don't think the seeds are individually sealed. Anyone have any good experiences with a particular company? Thanks!

[CapeCMom]

No one is going to think you are annoying silly goose! It's a very good question-one I have not figured out either because I find those kits very over priced. I have seen a bunch advertised but I am afraid to waste money on them. Would rather try making the kits myself. That way if the experiment fails I have not spent so much money.

By the way-welcome to the forum

[bookwormom]

I have seen some of those kits advertised and my thought was, someone is trying to take advantage of folks. Way overpriced. People have survived thousands of years without those seed kits. What I would like to do is save enough true seeds to do me and enough to share. One problem with those seeds, susceptability to blights, etc. so, what can we do about that, what natural means to control bugs, deceases, etc. They made it up to now and did well in the past.

[laf1110]

Glad to hear I am not being annoying :D They do seem overpriced. The thing that I do like about some of them is that the packets are supposed to be sealed and air tight. Of course who knows if that does any good anyways. I have heard stories of archeologists finding 4,000 year old corn seed in clay pots that still germinated. I have also sprouted store bought lentil beans which are supposed to be pasturized and they germinated at probably 90%. I think saving my own seeds probably is the best thing to do as I do not want to get ripped off. I do worry if something happens to my crops and I am unable to save seeds from them. It would be niceto have a back up that wouldn't make me broke....

[indyguy]

As long as seed stays dry and you keep vermin out it will store forever. My granddad hung sacks of leftover seed on wire from the barn beams for storage. Back a few years ago I ran short of seed corn to finish a field and it being a sunday there was no place to buy seed corn.

Granddads old seed dated from the late 40s thru 1979. I used seed dated from 1947 to 1956 and had no problem with germination. I did have some skips because this seed was not graded into flats or rounds and my planter needs flats to plant accuracy.

[patience]

I have used seed that was quite old also. Some did fine, some had a low germination rate. There is info on the net about how long each variety will store well, but it presumes proper storage conditions. Hnaging in the barn worked for us, too! :D

We are buying seeds from Mountain Valley Seed Co., who seem to have the best prices we can find. It is delivered sealed in foil/mylar packages that beat anything I could do. If you buy in larger quantities, such as 4 ounces of radishes or a pound or more of corn the price breaks are very good. That is what we have done to start our own seed bank, then we replenish it with what we save from the garden as available.

Freezing is good, because it will kill most insect pests, and many seeds need a freeze to go dormant so they will germinate when they warm up and have the right conditions of moisture and soil temp. I try to keep seeds in the freezer for at least a month or so, then let them thaw and store on the basement shelves in their airtight packets.

I am convinced that the canned emergency seeds are a ripoff. Just be sure to select the right varieties (Open Pollinated) and use a reliable supplier

[NCLee]

laf1110, first of all welcome!

Agree with the others about buying those expensive kits.

You have a clue in your second post, when you mentioned those 4000 year old seeds. :wink: Back then those folks didn't have those fancy kits.

Couple of thoughts that may be helpful.

When you buy seeds of any type, buy enough for 2 seasons. Plant 1/2 and save 1/2 for just in case. Next season, if all is going well, plant the second 1/2 and buy enough for 2 more seasons. You now have 2 years worth of seeds in storage.

For the open pollinated seeds, save those seeds each season. Save more than what you'll need, as outlined when buying all types of seeds. This principle keeps your seeds in rotation. Gives you enough seeds to recover from a crop failure. Gives you some seeds to barter in the event that you can't buy more from the store.

Store seeds in glass jars in a cool dark place. They'll last for many years. (Agree about checking on individual seeds for their rate of germination decline.) Don't put all of your seeds in one large jar. Smaller jars helps avoid the possibility of losing all of your seeds if something goes wrong in 1 jar.

Even if you keep them long enough that their germination rate is only 10%, that's enough to keep you going. Harvest all of the seeds for a season or so, until you build up a good viable supply again.

If seeds have been in storage for a few years, periodically test the germination rate. If the rate falls below your comfort level, re-supply with fresh seeds, if available. If not available, plant 1/4 - 1/2 of your supply and harvest for fresh seeds.

Hope this helps. Use the price difference between the expensive kits and your homemade kits to obtain more seeds!

Lee

[Aamylf]

I have to say, I was one who over a year ago fell for the overpriced seeds. Live and learn.

HOWEVER, I will say that at the time it made me feel more secure, better protected and better able to sleep at night. It's sort of like having your first solar panel or your first 50 pounds of wheat berries or whatever. It felt like I had done SOMETHING in case TSHTF.

I am now in the process of buying seeds and augmenting what I have put away.

And this explains why doing things from a place of fear is not usually a good idea!

[indyguy]

I did. How do you thing they kept seed 100 years ago. Why dont you go study a little history of how things used to be done before trashing me.

[indyguy]

If those seeds are kept DRY they will germinate after long term storage. Seed storage is not rocket science or a hi tech operation.

Dont make it harder than it is.

[indyguy]

I am so glad my ancestors dident have internet access 100 years ago. They would never have survived knowing their tried and proven methods were going to fail them.

To each his own

[Anon001]

To solve the problem, how about posting links to show the viable length of storage for seed and rates of germination after intervals of time?

Paul

[Anon001]

It's generally accepted that the seeds of the plants I've listed are short lived.

http://www.ipm.iastate.edu/ipm/hortnews/1995/3-3-1995/seedv.html

Thank you.

Paul

[indyguy]

Those are guidelines not absolute truth. Do you really think unsold seed packs are sent back and destroyed? The seed is repacked and sold the next planting season.

[Anon001]

Those are guidelines not absolute truth. Do you really think unsold seed packs are sent back and destroyed? The seed is repacked and sold the next planting season.

From my background with the co-op, I can vouch for it. However, we never had to send them back. All we had to do was get new labels from the supplier that gave new germination rates. This happens with garden seed, ag seed, lawn seed, etc.

However, those rules also vary from state to state.

Paul

[indyguy]

Personal experience working for a seed company while in college and my dealings with Pioneer seed now.

[tomato204]

I think we're bogging down here. The best way to save seeds is to plant them and thus save the VARIETY you want to have available to you in the future. I learned a while back to not plant more than half of the remaining seeds of any one kind, just in case of crop failure or some other calamity. Keep rotating your dry, stored seeds and you won't have to worry about them getting old.

[patience]

Right! And LABEL them with the year they were grown!

[Aamylf]

And, gracious, Digging Dog, you have an antagonistic tone. These forums are usually filled with collegial discussions and the attitude you seem to be manifesting is probably not going to result in a lot of conversation if you keep it up! One slightly OP comment -- many of the seeds from Mount Masada were planted, grew and actually gave back some heirloom varieties of things and plants no one even recognized.

[DiggingDogFarm]

And, gracious, Digging Dog, you have an antagonistic tone.

I deleted my posts.
I won't bother in the future.
Good luck to all who wish to play Russian roulette with their seeds and food supply.

[patience]

I said above that:
"There is info on the net about how long each variety will store well, but it presumes proper storage conditions."

I didn't see the post by Digging Dog and it is gone now, so I have no idea what was said. I do agree, however, that it would be wise to check the generally accepted longevity of the seeds you store. Yes, there are exceptions, and yes, some can be viable for longer than reccomended, but I agree that to exceed reccomended storage life is pushing your luck.

I've had unusual successes with seed storage, and I've had my share of dismal faiures, too. It makes sense to me to bet with the odds in my favor, and pay attention to the normal shelf lives.

[laf1110]

Wow thanks for all of the ideas! Tomato204, I hate to say it but it never occured to me not to plant all my seeds, what a good idea! Jeez I am a newbie huh?! I like the rotating out idea as well. Thanks for all the greatinfoNclee. Aamylf, I agree that doing something out of fear is rarely a good idea! ;) (even though I almost did!) I will say that I am very excited to check out Mountain Valley Seed as it would be nice to have a few packages just in case! Lol! Thanks Patience, and thanks all!

[bookwormom]

what I was wondering, I have saved tomato seed for years, passed them on to neighbors, too. This year, all my plants are sick and dying. I am growing three heirlooms, and one plant that I bought at Lowes to have some really early tomatoes, plus a few that came up as volunteers a few years ago and which are the best cherry tomatoes. How do I know seed companies will only take seed from truly healthy plants? If I save seeds this year, will they automatically have sick offspring? anybody know?

[midmo]

I've had very good experience with Baker Creek; have ordered exclusively through them for the last two (maybe three) years and have been very happy with the quality and customer service. I too thought the pre-packaged 'survival seeds' outfits were a ripoff, and in most cases I still do, but Baker Creek sells there own collections that is not as bad a deal as it may appear. At first I figured I could hand-select a few packets here, and few packets there, and come out cheaper overall (and have only hand-picked varieties of what I wanted). But after actually sitting down and doing just that, I found that the total soon outraces the price of their pre-packaged collection.

One topic I haven't seen discussed in the thread is that saving your own seed, even from open-pollinated varieties, isn't always as easy as it may seem. Cross-pollination can eventually wreak havoc with what was originally a pure-strain seed selection, and preventing it is a lot of work. There's a book called "Seed to Seed: Seed Saving and Growing Techniques for Vegetable Gardeners" by Suzanne Ashworth and Kent Whealy, which should be required reading for anybody attempting to save seed that will breed true. Unfortunately it doesn't look like that one is available at the BHM bookstore, but there's another, "Saving Seeds" by Marc Rogers which probably has much of the same info. I just can't vouch for that one since I haven't read it.

[laf1110]

Interesting, thanks for the info! I am going to save some seeds from a mix of squash seeds that I planted next to each other. I figure I will get some interesting variaties. Unfortunately I can't save pure squash seed as I plant many variaties for the market we sell at. Eventually I hope we have enough space that we can save our own pure squash seed. Right now I can only save a couple variaties of things I know will be pure. The thing that amazes me is that people can save something like pure tomato seeds which I think need a lot of space. I guess they either have a lot of room or only grown one kind? I will be checking out those books for sure as I am interested in the topic and we are hoping to have upwards of 20 acres of our own eventually so we should be able to save more variaties.

[NCLee]

what I was wondering, I have saved tomato seed for years, passed them on to neighbors, too. This year, all my plants are sick and dying. I am growing three heirlooms, and one plant that I bought at Lowes to have some really early tomatoes, plus a few that came up as volunteers a few years ago and which are the best cherry tomatoes. How do I know seed companies will only take seed from truly healthy plants? If I save seeds this year, will they automatically have sick offspring? anybody know?

I don't know for sure, as it depends on what's caused the problems with your tomatoes, this year.

That said, I'd still save the seeds from your most healthy plants. The seeds may not have the germination vigor of more healthy plants, but you haven't lost the line. If your problems are weather related, your next crop may be fine. FWIW, I'd sure give it a try.

Lee

[windmo]

We were just discussing saving seeds last night at home.

Bookworm - For what it's worth, EVERYONE around my area (NW Oregon) has had a bad tomato crop this year. We also had a later than usual start to summer and a wetter than usual spring, but the past few years have been rough on tomatos in general. I tried with a few container plants and at first they took off, then slowly died away.

[Nancymw]

Welcome to the forum. I am new also. I love Baker Seeds and use them mostly. However, I always hedge my bets. I did succomb and buy an expensive sealed kit with some seeds, but I am still happy I did. I save my seeds in the frig sealed in plastic bags and a silica gel packets in the plastic bag or container. Some seeds last forever and some not so good. I heard onion seed is the worst. A lot depends on conditions stored in also. I would try several methods and seeds from more than one place. Make sure they are non-GMO and organic and open pollinated.
A good book is Seed to Seed. Scares you a little on right conditions to save to protect variety, but that is for the purest. I just want the stuff to grow and be able to eat it and it still have nutrients. I have saved some from some of my plants and they grew the next year fine.

Again, welcome.