DIY Hydro System or Stupid Idea?

[kalos1972]

Ok so, my wife brought up an idea. First I laughed but then, she got me thinking...

What if you build a cistern, raised it say 20feet above the ground or grade, ran a line through a hydro system to another cistern and just let the one, empty to the other. Say to charge a battery bank or to be used in times when you need more POWAH.

And then you either hand pump, or perhaps use some livestock to manually pump the water back to the top as needed.

First question would be does it even make scientific sense? And two, do you net enough power for the trouble?

Might be a bad (mod ed) idea but, just thought Id check with the pros.

[DM]

Nothing is for free, there are a LOT of losses moving the water ect., so you would be pumping day and night for a small gain.

You would be better off converting a excerise bicycle to charge the batts, and ride it...

DM

[kalos1972]

Any suggestions on some details to that kinda system them? I'll try to search the forums but if you know of anything with some details that would be great! :)

[keydl]

The bicycle with a permanent magnet motor mounted for the rear wheel and a diode to prevent the battery running the motor.

Getting the ratios right for max power is the tricky part.

[dryflyshaman]

you can use a solar powered pump to take water into the upper tank. your idea sounds much like what i envision for my farm.

i plan on pumping water out of a flowing spring creek on my farm by use of ram pumps and solar powered pumps to turn turbines.

in one area there is a natural drainage ditch/gully that i can dam, pump into and get about a 10 foot fall at the junction with the creek.

your idea definately has merit. it is a question of getting more energy out than you put into the setup.

start thinking of small dc permanent magnet electric motors. these will generate electricity as well as they provide mechanical power.

some day i hope to be able to posst pics and descriptions of multiple operating power generation systems from the creeks water, but for now im just dreaming!

[ktm rider]

It sounds like a good idea but in the long run it would be WAY too much work for such little gain. You can estimate your power output by using this formula. head x flow /10 = watts. I have researched the heck out of micro hydro to use in my stream so I will just use my calculations for my stream.

head 55ft. flow about 350gpm in the winter. so that would be 55 x 350= 19,250 divided by 10 for pipe loss ( friction loss) and I can make just about 1,925 watts.

1,925 watts x24 ( hours a day) =46,200 watts a day x 30days =1386 Kwh a month which will be more than enough to power my home.

So it will take quite a bit of flow and head to produce useable power.

www.microhydropower.net

[ktm rider]

in one area there is a natural drainage ditch/gully that i can dam, pump into and get about a 10 foot fall at the junction with the creek.
!

I believe this idea has more promise than pumping the water anywhere. Even if it just give you a few watts it will be making power 24/7.

[dryflyshaman]

yes, the dammed gully is definatly on the agenda for someday.

when the creek enters the property there is a 35 foot sheer bluff. if i can rampump or solar pump water UP to the top and then let it fall that 35 foot, i should be able to generate a bit of power.

the thing is, it is not much of a creek. its only about four foot wide and runs about a foot deep so theres not a huge amount of water available, BUT i have almost 2000 foot of the creek and, though its east texas, that length of flow has a decent drop.

i have five or six natural horseshoe areas that can be cleaned out a little bit and dammed on the lower ends for fish ponds and perhaps emergency power generation.

lots of schemes and dreams! lots of ways to get some of that flowing water energy into a light bulb!

i guess the bottom line is dont put all the eggs in one basket...

[kalos1972]

I have been thinking bout this idea again and came up with an alternate and I think more simple solution.

Why not just use a Fresnel lens and a Stirling engine to pump the water to to the top of the system?

Reason I say this is that the Stirling is really reliable, powered by the sun its free too. Those lenses are very simple and much less involved then a current solar panel array.

I am GUESSING that a solid hydro generating design would be much more effecient when being powered, effectively by just the lens and the Stirling.

More so thinking out loud I guess... :)

[MichaelK]

I have been thinking bout this idea again and came up with an alternate and I think more simple solution.

Why not just use a Fresnel lens and a Stirling engine to pump the water to to the top of the system?

I think it makes more sense to reduce the complexity of your system by eliminating the water completely. Use the sterling engine to turn a generator directly and store the power in a battery. Either produce electricity directly or produce hydrogen that can be burned later.

[dryflyshaman]

ram pumps are low maintainance once you get one set and running.

solar is low maintenance, only taking a battery check once a month.

stirling engines are fascinating.

the old english lister engines are fascinating also.

my area is not optimal for wind, but im sure as heck gonna put up a couple, three small wind turbines.

like i said before, i dont plan on puttin all the eggs in one basket.

annnnd, the reason im lookin at all this alternate power is, of course to be off grid, and also because even though a power line runs right through my property, the power company wont hook up to my place because the county wont assign a 911 address to the property because i refuse to be bullied into buying a 50 dollar "development permit" for land my family has owned since the late forties.

we had the power turned off back in 1995 after everyone had moved away from the area.

[DM]

There's nothing like stepping over a dollar to pick up a dime.

DM

[land steward]

A wind mill would pump your water into a tank for you then you could generate power. BUT if you goona put a wind mill just generate the power from wind and leave it at that.
like one guy said why step over a dollar to pick up a dime.

[grumble]

Actually, the main problem with this idea is mostly the small scale of the project.

How to store Alt E (wind and solar) is a continuing problem. Two solutions advanced have been to store the energy produced as potential energy. One scheme uses the electricity to run big compressors that store compressed air in old mines or salt domes, and then tap that compressed air to run generating turbines. Another scheme uses electrical pumps to move water from a low reservoir to a higher one, and then uses water turbines to generate a constant production of electricity, wind or calm, sunny or night.

So, the idea has merit, even with lowered efficiency. The storage medium (water or compressed air) allows the user to spread the power produced over a span of time not possible with other methods.

The problem is how much it costs for a fairly small system with only a marginal return.