Homestead Size

[landshark]

Hello all. I find this site incredibly informative, and because of that I value your opinions. I was hoping you could all give me some ideas with regard to how big a family homestead needs to be, should be, or would be nice to have (as all 3 are different). This is my scenario:

I am looking into developing a Family Homestead to use for not only my immediate family (2 adults, 4 kids) but also my siblings and their fams, my parents, and some inlaws. All said there will be about 16 adults and 14 children under 12. We are thinking a bigger farm with the houses spread around it, and one central farmhouse complex as a central location (possible retreat location). We will need a garden big enough to supply the entire family, cover crops for human and animal consumption, some cows, chickens, pigs, sheep, a few horses and all of the equipment that goes along with such a farm. I am hoping to have at least 2 different alternative energy sources, and if terrain/location permits 3 types. I know it is a big undertaking, but you know what they say...strength in numbers and you can usually trust family over anyone else when it comes down to it. All families will be involved in financing and working this adventure.

I am gathering info on how much land needs to be dedicated to garden, crops (wheat, feed corn, etc.), pasture, timber, corral area, buidlings, etc etc. Also, what would you suggest as far as what to grow to be a self sustaining farm for all humans and animals.

I know this is a huge request, and even if you can only give me a tip or 2 on a few things I will really appreciate it.

Thanks in advance.

[kawalekm]

Hi Landshark
Welcome to the forum.
To answer your questions I thought it would be appropriate to divide things into common areas and family area. From the discription you're giving, I guessing you're talking about 4-6 individual related families living on the farm. Lets say you alot 1 acre each per home and surrounding environs such as parking, garages, outbuildings (firewood, ect). That starts you out with 5 acres. I'd alot at least an acre for each family to garden whatever their favorate plants are. That's ten. For things like growing grains, you'll want to consolidate those to make planting, weeding, and harvesting easier. For that many people I say you'll need 2-3 acres planted to wheat, and maybe the same in feed corn. Make that 16. Add about 10-15 acres each of woodlot to produce firewood and some timber, that becomes about 75. If you assume that each family will have either a cow or a horse, and each animal needs about 10 acres year-round, then and another 50 acres for pasture. Add this all up and you get about 120 acres. Depending on what's for sale in your area you might go down to 80 or scale up to 160. A lot will depend on the terrain, and the individual properties you find. You might just have to buy whatever's available, and make fit your needs. By the way, I'd also include a safe location to put in a rifle range. These numbers are based on living in the somewhat arid west, but your individual environment will dictate really how much land you'll need.
Michael

[LeatherneckPA]

Wow, that sure is a passle of folks. IMO, a barebones homestead for two should be at least one acre. It would be nice to have 3-5. While I was sitting in some boring classes of training this week I was doodling up a small farm on my pad. It was based on rotational grazing and pasture management, assuming that the ½ acre for each head of cattle (3 total, mom, yearling, and calf) giving a 1½ pasture size with 6 pastures to rotate through. I planned 1 acre for the house, outbuildings, garden, and orchard. Then I added 1 acre for raising a livestock garden for winter feeding, and 2 acres reserved to cut loose hay for winter storage. All totaled I came up with a dream farm of at least 10 acres to feed 2 people with the following:

50 freezer chickens per year
6-12 pullets per year
6-12 dairy goats (wethers to the freezer)
(milk, cheese, soap, and butter)
2 pigs plus a yearly litter for the freezer
3 cows (milk for the calf and the pigs)
6-12 Angora goats (wife took up weaving)
and maybe two draft horses

For 16 adults and assorted younguns I'd start by figuring out how much you're going to need for the freezers, then plan pasturage accordingly.

[Steve_L]

So, where are you going to buy this land? How much does this land cost? Any buildings on it?

[landshark]

Thanks or the input so far - some really good info. We are thinking somwhere in the northern AR. MO, eastern OK area. looks like there are decent prices, finding lots of areas with springs an good mixes of open land and timber. We would most likely be starting from scratch. Other suggestions are appreciated though.

[annabella1]

A lot of this will depend on whether you intend just to support yourselves on the property or make a profit. I would figure out annually what you are going to need and then backtrack from there. If you are talking just supporting yourselves then break down how much food, IE: I want to have fried chicken once a week, so for 4 people I will need 52 chickens. (chicken cut up into 8 pieces 2pieces per person) You will want to do this for everything you want Make extensive lists. I can't do this for you because what you want will be totally different from what I want. Then you can research how much land it will take to raise the animals, and vegetables that you need. Don't forget to consider the amount of feed your animals will need. There are places on the internet that give you amounts per serving needed for fruits and vegetables. If you want to be self sustaining on the land you must also consider how you will have an income to pay taxes, and for raw materials that is not available on your property. You can make income from your property but you need to plan that in advance also.

[flatwater]

Sounds like you want to start a commune with family members. You have the rare family that could get along for any extended time living that close together. But to each his own I say. With that size family I would suggest 100 acres each. That way your close enough to visit but far enough away so you don't end up killing each other.
Flatwater

[Southern_Gent]

Depending on the type of agricultural practices employed, a bare minimum of 1.5 acres per person will be required. Keep in mind that this number stems from pre-industrial Peruvian farming techniques, which mainly consisted in the cultivation of tubars, also known as potatoes. I don't think this included leaving a field fallow for a season, as they constantly replaced their dirt with river silt. So, for your 30 people, you're looking at 45 acres dedicated to just gardens alone.

When you consider the feeding of livestock, the acreage increases. Depending on where you buy the land, the soil content may be well enough to produce very nourishing grasses and hays, thus negating the need to feed during the late spring, summer and early fall months. Yet, enough hay and grain will need to be stored for the winter months to sustain horses, cattle, goats and sheep.

As others have mentioned, there will be need of space for housing, barns and other needed outbuildings. For such a large group of people, you're looking at a decent size piece of land to fully support everyone.

[kawalekm]

Hi Landshark
Should have made this critical point first. Water! Where is it going to come from. The states you mentioned fit into the arid description, so I would say your single most important criteria should be the availability of water. It may be flowing water, springs, or pumped wells. Before anything else, learn about the water resources of a property you want to buy.

You mentioned that all the families are like minded, but that is for now. Priorities may change in 25 years after your kids are grown, married, and have children of their own. It might be best if each individual family has separate titles to the land they each occupy. For example, you could by a quarter section of land, and divide that into four 40 acre parcels. The land could still be farmed and managed communially, but each family would own their own parcel. That could be a way to prevent bitter legal battles some day in the future. For a project this big, I think it's a good idea to get the services of a lawyer to hammer out details of ownership and responsibilities.
Michael

[Suzy]

MAKE CERTAIN that whereever you are looking for land, that there is no zoning, "land use" regulations, covenants, or whatever that would prohibit you doing whatever you want to do on your land!

Also, will this be held in a joint deed or what? What if some members of the family decide to move away, die, etc. Will their section of the property be sold or what???

No matter how well families "get along," divorces happen, people die, etc. etc. etc. and you need to have all that worked out so that the farm will not be divided up!!!

best wishes!

[Steve_L]

Where do you find land? ??? I've looked around where I currently live, there are lots of small farms; some are on sale for a couple of million bucks! :o I don't have millions of bucks to invest in a local farm. :( I think the people in farms around me bought them cheap a long time ago. It seems the only way to get a "homestead" is to inherit it.

My wife has medical issues, so I can't be too far away from civilization.

Most of the ads for land on the web are going for far too much.

[bee_pipes]

...where I currently live, there are lots of small farms; some are on sale for a couple of million bucks! :o I don't have millions of bucks to invest in a local farm. :( I think the people in farms around me bought them cheap a long time ago. It seems the only way to get a "homestead" is to inherit it.


Sure, that's one way to get a "homestead" - the other way is to make it. What you're seeing is sweat equity and property appreciation. Somebody bought the land and built that farm. Someone else came along and bought it for a higher price and improved on it. Some folks might have even just bought and sat on it while property values went up, then sold for a profit. If you want a farm, ready to walk into and run, expect to pay top dollar. If it is a profitable enterprise, expect to pay even more.

This forum isn't just about buying a farm and becoming a new operator, it's about getting a piece of land and making a home on it. Some folks here started with nothing but land and built everything they own. Others of us have bought land with existing structures - houses, sheds, barns, etc. and made improvements. If you want a lower price, you need to find less developed property. Some places, like Northern Virginia, are just expensive because there is such a demand for property - heck, an empty acre out there probably costs more than my whole place.


...My wife has medical issues, so I can't be too far away from civilization.


That is definitely something to take into account. If being close to civilization in your neck of the woods is too pricey, you might need to look at other areas. Maybe other metropolitain areas around your state, maybe Oregon, maybe Kentucky? I don't know what your limitations are.

Do you need a house ready to move into? Or can you live in a camper while you build? Off-grid or on? The more you can do without, the lower the price. Counties with less infrastructure (conveniences like police, high-speed internet, cable TV, etc.) will have lower taxes and the property will likely be cheaper. The ideal arrangement for you would be in an adjoining county to a metro area, in the opposite direction of growth from that metro area. That's what we did - Nashville is growing east, we are about 90 miles west of the city. I've lived all around this country, never dreamed we'd wind up in Tennessee. But the price was right for the property and the winters are mild.


...Most of the ads for land on the web are going for far too much.


Best thing, once you get possible regions/locations you can live with, is to drive around and see it for yourself. Contact local realtors, see what they have, and if you find one with a web site, haunt their site and watch as property comes and goes.

Best of luck to you in your search Steve.

Regards,
Pat

[Steve_L]

No, I don't want a farm to run as a business. I want a farm in the sense that I grow my own food, fiber and maybe fuel. I'd like a place that is self sufficient. I want enough pasture for a beef cow, a dairy goat, and maybe a couple of sheep; enough space for a garden or a large greenhouse. I want to keep chickens and rabbits, and grow my own chicken feed and rabbit food. I've read that with a 15 acre woodlot, I'd have a perpetual supply of fuel.

I want to get by on my little retirement check, not depend on a society that is about to fall apart, and home school my baby girl.

My wife, of course, has veto powers. She's says she's okay with this, but like Lot, I worry that my wife will look back on the big city and turn to salt... or at least threaten to clean me out in a divorce settlement. No way is she going to live in a tent or a trailer while I build a house (Dorthy Ainsworth is my hero), so it's going to need at least a small house.

[LeatherneckPA]

Sounds to me like you need to sit down with your DW and find out just exactly what she considers good, not just acceptable, but good. Acceptable has a way of turning ugly under adversity, and no homesteading venture will be without adversity.

Ask Deberosa. Sometimes you just have to be able to look up at the sky, raise your arms, and laugh out loud while you ask, "This is a test, right?"

I don't believe you will find anything like you are describing within an hour and a half of ANY major metro anymore. Folks are fed up with the cities and that's why our land is going to cost so much. Heck, even my rinky-dink city of 50,000 increases cost by a factor of 5-10 times as much as true boonies.

[bill_in_in]

I agree with LeatherneckPA, most of the cost is related to the surrounding area. If you want a WalMart within 2 miles, paved roads, cable tv, decent phone and internet......

get ready to pay-

The second part of the equation is you. I don't know how many people I have come across who were city raised and need their house at 74 degrees all winter and 68 all summer. That is fine if that is what they want but it adds to the cost and if your design includes wood heat it will require a larger wood lot. Same for a lot of other things that our grandparents took as normal but in the last fewgenerations has kinda disappeared.

[beekeeper]

We were fortunate to have found an area where we were able to buy forest land 7 miles from the freeway. Riverfrontage and with no zoning. Water frontage forest goes for $900 per acre, while forest land with no river access goes for $300 per acre.

For my retirement, we got 42 acres and it is great!