Edging in/What do I look for?

[jgourlay]

I'm in my early forties with 3 little kids, and looking at the "situation", I am starting to think that maybe (just maybe) learning more about homesteading and positioning for it may be a good hedge against various sorts of potential economic shocks in the future.

Sometime this year I will most likely be transferred to a promotion in Oklahoma, and the move appears to offer the opportunity to sell some expensive "city" property for some less expensive "outlying" areas with some land (theory). I'm guessing, maybe, 2 to 5 acres at this point. While I would like to move to something truly rural, that's probably out of the question. My wife "ain't white" which I know from experiences at the deer lease can cause problems "in the country". Also, she considers Houston to be a small town compared with asian cities where she was raised: OKC or Tulsa will be a shock. And I need to be close to the plant.

That said, my question is, "for what should I look?" The answer, I know, will depend on "whaddya wanna do?" I'm looking for a property allowing me to gain a greater degree of self sufficiency: grow some food, raise some chickens, MAYBE sheep but certainly no cattle. If there are other aspects of self sufficiency where land is the key asset, I need to understand that better.

Right now, I wouldn't know the difference between good land/bad land, or what to characteristics to identify in making a decision besides it's got a dirt and a house on it. Where do I start?

[CarolAnn]

Some areas are lots more "redneck" than others (refering to tollerance about non-white folks.) You won't know how they are until you actually go there and talk to people. Do not take in pre-conceived ideas, because country folks can surprise you!

For example, the area in Iowa where I grew up 40 years ago was extremely biggoted against not only people of other races, but to a degree of sillyness about what corner of EUROPE your ancestors hailed from! Never mind Asia - they were hotly against Italians for their "brown" skin. (As a Czech - German - English- Irish- French mutt, they were a little suspicious of how tan I was able to get in the summer!)

However, near where I lived in Arkansas, there was a small town with a fully integrated church and school - Holy Kamoley! Black folks and white folks worshiping God in the SAME building! Who'd a thought that could happen in the south?

So - you never know until you go there and actually talk to people. They'll show their depth of character (or not) fast enough.

;)

[OzarkMtnDaredevil]

I'm in my early forties with 3 little kids, and looking at the "situation",

If there are other aspects of self sufficiency where land is the key asset, I need to understand that better.

Right now, I wouldn't know the difference between good land/bad land, or what to characteristics to identify in making a decision besides it's got a dirt and a house on it. *Where do I start?

I guess it boils down to what kind of commute-time you're willing to endure.

Good or Bad land? No such thing. Just diff kinds of Good Land! :) Seriously... if the land you're looking at needs rocks, has a lot of years-worth composted leaves on the ground and near-by water, I'd call it good. If you need rocks, drive on over to north AR and we'll PAY you to take them ;). 3 to 5 acres in a wooded area shouldn't be hard to find near either OK city that you mentioned. It may be expensive, though.

Keep in mind that, even if you don't have perfect soil and want a garden, you'll probably wind up interested in Composting. Makes great fertilizer!
Here, we have to build raised-bed gardens with fill dirt because of the rocks. The trade-off is dirt vs. trees vs. water, I guess.

[Deberosa]

I've got 4.5 acres and while I may not be totally sustainable ever I can get pretty close... I do have two cows - they are Dexter cows so don't need as much space. Goats are an alternative to cows also on less acreage. We'll be getting pigs this year to grow out and butcher in the fall. Chickens and turkeys of course.

You could end up with biggots in a high rise, so maybe best would be to go to the neighbors of property you are looking at and meet them before buying. I did that and was glad I did after some bad experiences with neighbors. Once you are there then new neighbors will just have to deal. ;-) Ask about the water, the crime, etc.

Don't know what kind of land is in Oklahoma, I liked this place because even though it is only 4.5 acres it's not up against other houses.

Don't be discouraged by land that seems all brushy or weedy, some elbow grease can fix that and it will generally go alot cheaper. That's how I got my place - everyone looking at it only saw the overgrown weeds and alot of work. ;-) As was mentioned you can "make" your own soil if need be.

Make sure the place doesn't have CCand R's that control what you can do with your land. Someplaces around here they sell 40 acre plots but you can't have a mobile home or you can't have pigs,etc.

Good luck! You can't go wrong buying dirt in my opinion.

[jgourlay]

Thanks for you replies. The reason I'm so concerned about quality of dirt, and what I don't know, is from experience. I grew up in a part of Texas that was all sand and kaliche. You had a about 8" of topsoil before you hit rock. But, as long as you kept everything well watered to survive the desert sun, you could grow anything.

Then I moved to Houston and Htown has this thick gumbo clay stuff. Even IF you keep it watered, few things will grow. What does grow, grows like gang busters, but none of it can you eat. The "house beautiful" types get along by buying hundreds of dollars of mulch every year and planting in that. And every year the soil literally swallows that mulch down and you have to replace it....

I want know how to identify soil where you can do well if you just keep water on it and the amount of natural compost a family produces.

Can you all discuss how much land you "need" for various things? I know this will vary from place to place, but there's surely a reasonable range? For example, if I want nothing but a herd (flock, school?) of chickens that is large enough to sustain itself, provide half a dozen eggs for breakfast, and 3 chickens in the pot per week, how many acres do I need IF the acreage has to provide all the food for the chickens? How many for sheep? If you all you are feeding is 5 vegetarian people, how many acres?

What is the best way to split the land up between, say, forage for the chickens (rabbits, sheep), vegetable gardening for the family, and fruit/nut trees?

[Deberosa]

For the soil:

When you buy the place you could have the soil analyzed. I had that done here when we took a small farm sustainable class and the conservation district. That will tell you the ph, minerals organic matter. You need to dig out small samples in a few different places so that could be a condition of sale. THe other thing the conservation district has is a soil map and they can tell you what the soil is like at that address. (clay, loam, sand, sandy loam, etc.) Those both will help you to understand what you are dealing with but just about anything can be "fixed" some how.

3 chickens a week? That's 150 chickens. I raise dark cornish but only shoot for one a week. I still provide ouside feed but hope to improve you will need to feed outside feed till you get set up for sure. Think of alternate kinds of feed. Like comfrey, and cover crops. For150 chickens raised internally (don't buy chicks each year) you will need about 30 hens (some for eggs and some for raising chicks) Or you incubate your eggs then you can get by with fewer hens. I think you will just have to figure it out as you go.

As for the amount of land for a vegetarian, get the book grow more vegetables in less space than you can imagine by John Jeavons (or is it bill?) anyhow - it's on another thread here. He outlines in detail the space needed to supply food for a family and yeilds for different veggies, etc.

Get as much land as you can safely afford and work through the rest would be my advice.

[kawalekm]

Hi jgourlay
Don't worry so much about having an asian wife. *My wife is also asian and when we first bought our property, the neighbors didn't even seem to notice. *All in all they were all surprisingly welcoming. *Part of it I think was that they all saw that we really want to be close to the land and weren't speculator's out to make a buck.

When we first started, we immediately started planting trees, which I think sent everyone a message that we were really serious. *People would stop by during the construction of the cabin to say hello and see how things were going. *Honestly, I think that we are very intertaining to them all.

How much land you will need is going to depend on what kinds of projects you're willing to take on. *If you want to plant an orchard for home production, you can make do with 0.5-1.0 acres for that. *Same for gardening space. *Once you start to raise any kind of animals at all, space requirements go way up. *Figure at least an acre for a single goat, and at least 5 for a cow or horse. *Want to burn wood? *Have a woodlot to produce your own? *Then add another 10-20 acres.

One thing to remember is that the larger the parcel you buy, the more breathing space you have between you and your neighbors. *I won't think of getting anything less than 5 acres, 10 is what I would consider my bare minimun, 20 is nice, but what I actually bought myself is 50. Pay lots of attention to water sources. I consider that the single most important topic for any landowner!

By the way, my wife is Malaysian. *My I ask where your's is from?
Good luck,
Michael