LED vs Oil Lamp

[randallhilton]

Illumination is pretty important when the grid goes down. I've seen several references to using hurricane lanterns or candles as light sources but I have reservations about using a flame for light and am especially wary of candle light (even though I have a few candle lanterns).

I decided to do a little home brewed research and found an LED light bulb (http://www.niteize.com/collections/flashlights/products/led-upgrade-kit-cd-cell) that works in my 2 D cell army light.

I knew that it would provide a lot better battery life than the krypton bulb that came with the flashlight but how much longer? So I began a test.

First, with a light meter I measured how much light the flashlight produced with it's krypton bulb. The design of the light focuses a bright center area which, in my test rig, produced about 30 lux (whatever that is) in the bright middle but it quickly dropped to about 3 lux just outside the bright spot.

Then, I switched to the led bulb. In my test rig, it produced a 3 lux illumination over a broad area with no particularly bright spot.

So far, what I learned is that the krypton bulb would be better for searching but the LED would be better for reading, chores, interior lighting etc.

Next is the battery test. Quite honestly, I didn't do a battery drain test with the krypton bulb because I already know that it's good for a few hours then it's done for.

The LED bulb is another story. With a reasonably fresh, but not brand new, set of standard batteries I turned it on and left it on. After about 48 hours of steady running it seemed to drop a bit in intensity but was still plenty bright enough for reading and other chores. It held at this level for about a week. (yes -- a week). After the light had been on for about 10 days it dropped down to a lower intensity, delivering about 1 lux, which is still bright enough for getting things done although I wouldn't want to read War & Peace by its illumination. By the end of 2 solid weeks (336 hours) I felt that the light output was still useful. After about 2 weeks and 2 days, the light output dropped to a point where I don't think it would have been of much use, unless it was the only source of illumination in a cavern or something.

This experiment makes me think that if I averaged 4 hours of lighting per night, I could get the better part of 3 months worth of "survival" illumination out of one pair of D cell batteries.

What I don't know, is how much lamp oil would be required for a similar duration? I also don't know how well the lamp quality compares to the LED quality. White and steady for the LED vs. Yellowish and flickering but possibly brighter for the lantern. The lantern would also illuminate in all directions, which the flashlight doesn't (there are pros and cons for that feature). A major pro for the LED is that there's no fear in accidentally knocking it over.

NOTE: The particular LED lamp I used is designed to use varying voltages so I think it might automatically adjust to whatever battery power is available. This might have something to do with the long life but I'm not sure. What I do know is that this experiment has changed my perspective on emergency lighting. It seems to me that when factoring safety and ease of storage (the batteries claim a 6 year shelf life) I think this is going to be our primary backup light source.

Any thoughts?

BTW: I found this light bulb at Academy sports for a few bucks less than advertised on the company website.

Update: On a whim, I re-inserted the dead batteries after they rested for a couple of days. The light perked up to a useful level for another 15 minutes or so before fading again.

[Prairie]

Me and the family has been using solar LED lights for a couple of months now. I wouldn't want to read or do much of anything with them, but they are great night lights. They are the garden kind that people leave in their yards for accents, but we stick them in the ground outside in the morning, and at night, we grab them and we can see to get to bed or if we have to go outside to use the 'toilet'. They are not that bright since there is only one LED in each one, but it's better and safer than carrying a lantern or candle, and they are fairly cheap, and so are the replacement batteries when the time comes.

[bookwormom]

Prairie, you took the words right out of my mouth. I got some that seem to be brighter than others and I put them in a vase in the hallway and you can see your way to the bathroom and whereever you have to go in the middle of the night. Does anybody know if they make solar lights that are a little more heavy duty, portable like the yardlights, but bigger to give enough light to get by on? that is my dream. Not enough lighting was what we missed when we were without power for a week.

[patience]

I think there are suitable places for each type of lighting.

I like my LED Mini Mag Lite, and use it hard. Batteries last for months on end with daily use as a flashlight for shop use. Not so hot for much beyond about 5 feet at night. Got a 4D cell Mag Lite with LED conversion, and that sucker is BRIGHT! No, not a bright as the Krypton bulb, but very useful, and it does focus well to a spot, good out to 25 yards or more.

We have 3 oil lamps on wall brackets (for safety) in our summer kitchen where we would cook (gas stove/wood stove) in a power outage of whatever duration. I plan to put mirrors behind them to reflect more light into the room--tried that and it really helps. Have plenty of kerosene stored for those and other oil lamps for general use. I chose oil lamps for their reliability in general use over any kind of electrical light for the very long term. And, I can fix whatever goes wrong with them, with the exception of broken glass. So, I have a box of spare chimneys and lamps. With these, I can feel assured that I WILL have light, even if it is not the best quality of light. While I like my LED flashlights for portable use, I don't trust them for the very long term, so, I also have some kerosene lanterns stored away. Not as safe, not as bright, but I can see to get to the outhouse with 'em!

For general off-grid use, we plan to use 12V CFL's for home and shop illumination. I think they are a good compromise for good area lighting at relatively low power consumption. Better color than LED's for me to see well, too.

[Prairie]

My dad got a wall kerosene lamp for Christmas with the concave glass reflector. He mounted it too close to the ceiling. Didn't burn anything, but now there's a black spot in the spackle.

I have seen flyers with LED garden lights the claim they are 3x brighter. THATS going in the outhouse! :cool:

[patience]

Makes me think I could put a sort of metal reflector above the lamp to catch all the soot! Like a piece of thin stainless mounted on a wire bracket. It would have to be strudy to be safe, 'cuz it would get hot enough to be dangerous. Maybe an aluminum pie plate?

[krapgame]

FWIW, I've been giving serious thought to what are called "UFO Lights" (search that on EBay). They are an array of LEDs (48 and 60 are common) on a UFO shaped disc that are pointed different directions. The pros; I think they would be good emergency lighting (enough to find your way through a dark room), good battery life (they claim 30 hours life from a set of batteries and depending on the model, you can run 1/3, 2/3 or all the LEDs depending on need and extend battery life), they're cheap (about $1.00 each plus $4.00 shipping from China). The cons; AA batteries (although they could be rewired to run off a larger rechargable battery pack), limited ability to make repairs (they're cheap, buy extras), probably wouldn't be good for detail lighting (reading, etc).

Initially I really liked the idea of an oil type lamp, but with kids, cats and general clumsiness have never been a big fan of open fire type lighting. I do like the simplicity of the technology and think they have their place, but probably won't be our first line of lighting. We'll probably go with the LEDs, rechargable batteries and a solar panel to keep the batteries hot. Not the best solution probably, but seems to be the best suited to our situation for stationary lighting.

[midmo]

I've got several of the 3D/4D LED Maglites... love 'em. I think I bought the oldest, a 3D that lives in my truck, Christmas-before-last, so almost two years now. It gets used regularly, though not constantly, but I've yet to have to replace the batteries in it. For that matter, I don't think I've had to replace batteries in ANY of them, and some get used pretty heavily.

But I've got a few oil lanterns too, plus a propane Coleman lantern, a couple of LED camping lanterns, and one fluorescent camping lantern. I like diversity ;)

[NCLee]

Midmo, DIVERSITY is the key! You've nailed it!

FWIW.....

Just as my goal to have as many ways as possible to make a pot of coffee, I have the same goal for "Let There Be Light". (Name of a DIY notebook on the subject).

Oil lamps/lanterns are our first line of defense for today (power out due to storms) and for whatever the future may bring. IMHO, oil lamps are more safe than many people believe them to be.

The secret is how you place them with regards to the circumstances. Wall mounts (brackets or shelves) will keep them out of harms way where small children or pets are a factor.

Choosing lamps with sturdy wide bases is another. I see some of them that are far too top heavy. Especially the "cute" decorator versions. Also, having enough lamps so they don't have to be carried from room to room is another factor.

During storm preps here, lamps are put in each room along with matches to light them, when needed. That removes the hazard of trying to carry a lamp from place to place. If it becomes necessary to carry light, use a good quality lantern. The handle makes it easy. The globe is secured in the frame and protected from breaking.

While we have candles and candle making supplies in storage, candles are near the bottom of our list of light sources for a couple of reasons. They don't give off as much light as an oil lamp with a properly trimmed wick and there are more dangers associated with using them. IMHO, that's why they were phased out for general lighting when old fashioned coal oil lamps became available. (If memory serves it's been about a 100 years since coal oil was replaced with kerosene - liquid paraffin - as the fuel source.)

Further diversity is found in olive oil lamps and soda bottle lamps. (Google those terms for info and how to make them.) Add whale oil lamps that use cooking oil, today, as another way to have light.

As a part of our diversity, we have 2 Coleman camp fuel lanterns when we need high intensity light. Periodically we add another can of fuel to our stash. As long as the cans are protected from rust, as far as I know the shelf life of the fuel is indefinite. (Keep a supply of repair parts and mantles on hand.) Planning to add one propane version, as we're also stocking up on 1 lb cylinders for use with camp stoves.

FWIW, I'm watching, with great interest, the discussions on LED as another option to further diversity. This thread has reminded me it's time to check out end-of-summer sales of solar yard lights. Both for indoor and outdoor use. Thanks to all for your thoughts on LED.

In closing there's one more diversity element to consider. Plain old sunlight. :) Skylights and solar tubes are a way to get more light into the home during daylight hours. Then, to complement these, plan activities to coincide with the times that sunlight is available. Cook supper before the sun goes down. Study your Sunday School lesson Saturday morning rather than Saturday evening. Do needlepoint in the morning and crochet in the evening when far less light is needed.

I'm rambling on too much, this morning! Hope someone can gleen and idea or 2 from these ramblings.

Lee

[randallhilton]

Midmo, DIVERSITY is the key! You've nailed it! . . .

I'm rambling on too much, this morning! Hope someone can gleen and idea or 2 from these ramblings.

Lee

Not too much rambling for me. I have some propane lanterns and some oil lanterns but haven't done a quality/duration/cost test. Now I'm motivated to dig a bit further.

Re: Propane -- I have a single mantle lantern which provides plenty of light at about half the propane usage but I consider propane lighting to be a last resort. I'd rather save it for heat and cooking. We have the conversion kits to run them off of the 20 pound bottles.

RE: Oil/coleman fuel. For diversity's sake I'll make sure we have some on hand but I think solar will be our long term solution since we have a small array that we use to reduce our grid bill. It's not very portable though.

Good comments.

[NCLee]

Thanks!

Same approach here on propane. FWIW, our game plan is to ration the fuel sources that either have specialized usages or limited supplies. Propane and camp fuel will be reserved for those times that high light output are a must. BTW, we have the adapters, too. And the T that allows more than one device to be hooked to a 20 lb or 100 lb cylinder. IMHO, 100 lb cylinders are a more economical way to store propane. A 100 lb one costs less than 5 20's. Unit cost to fill is less. And they take up less floor space, too. Some copper, tubing cutter, flaring tool and a shoe box with fittings, spare regulator, etc. sets up for multiple situations. Don't forget a bottle of leak detector.

The more I think about it, the more it appears it's time to do a shoe box on LED, too. (Including learning a lot more about the "mechanics".)

Lee

[midmo]

I'll throw another comment about LED's out there...
You're not really limited to what's available commercially. The actual LED's themselves are dirt cheap, and come in a wide variety of sizes, brightness levels, illumination angles, even color. Wiring them up to a 3-5 VDC power supply is junior-high-level electronics work. You're only limited by your imagination on where you go with it next. Homemade flashlights out of PVC? Solar-charged chicken coop lighting? My current project is an illuminated "foot" for a CNC router table I'm working on - you have to zero the tip of the router bit on the material before the computer can get its bearings and tell it where to start cutting. Kind of hard on my old eyes. It's tight quarters, but with three new holes in the oak router mount and a few bright LED's, I'll have the thing lit up like a runway and can poke that bit down right where it's supposed to go.

[Idaholady]

I enjoyed everyone's posts. I've gone out and bought some of those solar yard lights. I am planning to be without power (EMP event or Solar event) for more than a year; so I have candles, batteries, and lamp oil. I feel it is a matter of time before we are hit with a solar event (Oct. 27th is the next potential event)

When prepping, you must consider how long you could be without lighting and plan accordingly. I'd rather be over prepped than under prepped. I may have to share or use some of my things for bartering.

[randallhilton]

A while back I tried some of those solar yard lights but the family decided that there wasn't enough light to be useful. I noticed in one post on this thread that all yard lights aren't created equal so I may try a different brand.

However, I'm more inclined towards a solar battery charger instead. A fully charged set of batteries could power several nights of illumination but I'm not so sure the solar yard lights would last that long.

Trivia note: WalMart offers close to 300 different ways to get lit - including $5 kerosene lanterns. I reckon their savvy business people have determined that people want to see in the dark!

[keydl]

Those little 3 AAA battery flashlights are $1 at the Dollar Tree and work pretty well, don't use up batteries quick and when they fail the lights still work. With 3 of them they add to the nominal voltage of a car battery, taking the printed circuits and wiring them in series would work for many things such as security lighting at windows and doors. Add a solar panel, charge controller, some switches and a small battery holder and the panel will keep up the rechargeable dry cells and the car battery. With a 12 v charger or inverter it may do tool batteries.

I have had 4 types of garden lights and all have been bright enough for the purpose - just some only work til midnight. It is on the list - take the batteries out and fully charge them to see if the panel is to small or the batteries. But the light is good enough to find the crosshair in the scope to collect a coon. They also give color for the security cameras that have UV light for night vision.

[NCLee]

When prepping, you must consider how long you could be without lighting and plan accordingly. I'd rather be over prepped than under prepped. I may have to share or use some of my things for bartering.

Well said. Worth repeating!

Being over prepared on basics such as lighting, IMHO, is one way that everyone can have the potential to barter, if/when the need arises. With some skill sets, it can be hard to find a barter partner. OTOH, if everyone is sitting in the dark, there are a heck of a lot potential barter partners, if you you can provide candles.

Lee

[BigOBear]

I keep a little wind up LED light on the boat. Handy little thing. I wouldn't want to read with it for a long time but it's perfect for retying hooks or whatever out on the lake in the dark without firing up a bright light. Oh... and the wee ones like winding it up for some reason. Something you might be interested in stashing away.

And thanks for the testing and reporting. Enjoy reading that sort of stuff.

[esh]

Guys, look at magnets, and wire. you can with LEDS back up our oil lamps and other light sources. It requires some effort but can be a good 'oil-less' option with good old magnetic induction.

[Travis]

Lee your replies are always long but I read and reread what you post as you always have great imfomation. Diversity is indeed the key.

Thanks to the OP for this test, nice to know an LED flashlight will last so long.

Okay I am studing energy and took a lighting class last term and here is what I have

Lux = 1 lumen per meter squared

10.76 lux = 1 foot candle

So at 3 lux thats roughly 1/3 candle power

[firegirl969]

Prairie, you took the words right out of my mouth. I got some that seem to be brighter than others and I put them in a vase in the hallway and you can see your way to the bathroom and whereever you have to go in the middle of the night. Does anybody know if they make solar lights that are a little more heavy duty, portable like the yardlights, but bigger to give enough light to get by on? that is my dream. Not enough lighting was what we missed when we were without power for a week.

Prarie,

I am looking at ordering one of these off Amazon to see how well they work. The price ain't bad either!

http://www.amazon.com/D-light-Kiran-Solar-LED-Lantern/dp/B00303687I/ref=wl_it_dp_o?ie=UTF8&coliid=I20UDR57HJS1TT&colid=3QAGFHDOXY1ON

[firegirl969]

Those little 3 AAA battery flashlights are $1 at the Dollar Tree and work pretty well, don't use up batteries quick and when they fail the lights still work. With 3 of them they add to the nominal voltage of a car battery, taking the printed circuits and wiring them in series would work for many things such as security lighting at windows and doors. Add a solar panel, charge controller, some switches and a small battery holder and the panel will keep up the rechargeable dry cells and the car battery. With a 12 v charger or inverter it may do tool batteries.

I have had 4 types of garden lights and all have been bright enough for the purpose - just some only work til midnight. It is on the list - take the batteries out and fully charge them to see if the panel is to small or the batteries. But the light is good enough to find the crosshair in the scope to collect a coon. They also give color for the security cameras that have UV light for night vision.

Look at rechargeagble batteries!!! I have gotten some really good packs at decent prices off Amazon. I am looking at getting a solar battery charger next as one of my packs came with an AC charger.

[firegirl969]

My dad got a wall kerosene lamp for Christmas with the concave glass reflector. He mounted it too close to the ceiling. Didn't burn anything, but now there's a black spot in the spackle.

I have seen flyers with LED garden lights the claim they are 3x brighter. THATS going in the outhouse! :cool:

I got one of these and it works great at my backdoor. I bet that would make a trip to the outhouse so much easier at night!

http://www.amazon.com/Powered-LED-Security-Motion-Detector/dp/B001PENCNW/ref=wl_it_dp_o?ie=UTF8&coliid=I1NINLS0FR6XOP&colid=3QAGFHDOXY1ON