The homestead as a system

[Deberosa]

I haven't gotten there yet but I see the homestead as a total system. Each part supports other parts of the system, the buzz word now is probably sustainable. Using chickens to clean up the garden or feeding extra milk to the pigs. Any other thoughts on this?

[Southern_Gent]

I stumbled across an article in the archives that goes into detail about setting up a chicken house/garden/compost combo. The gardening areas would flank both sides of the chicken house and the compost area was in the back. The idea was to allow the chickens into one of the gardening areas, after harvest, and allow them to pick through the dying plants, while fertilizing in their own special way, :) , alternating between gardening areas. Whenever the chicken house was cleaned out, the refuse could be thrown into the compost pile. Seemed like a neat and efficient approach to a couple of homestead needs. Too bad I can't remember the name of the article.

As for my own experience, raising rabbits was always a good way to produce some extra meat for the freezer. Rabbits also provided a source of fertilizer for the garden, and pelts if one was willing to tan them. Of course, the source of food for the rabbits was alfalfa pellets from an outside source. I suppose a suitable alternative could be grown on the homestead, however it would need to have sufficient protein content.

[MadTripper]

Here is a link to the garden/chicken run.

http://www.backwoodshome.com/articles/silveira44a.html

I'm in the process of building ours however I have made some changes as well.

I plan on putting my orchard on the end opposite the chicken coop. There will be limited access from both garden and chicken run. This way I can allow the chickens access only during certain times of year. The orchard will be fenced in as well.

I am also considering the addition of our sweet corn plot to the orchard area. Our pigs will run the sweet corn area. This will help the soil aerate and also provide solid fertilizer for the corn. Since the corn isn't a ground crop, there won't be any direct contamination. My neighbors have been running their swine in this manner for a while.

The orchard will provide some shade for the pigs and chickens as well as benefit from the fertilizer. The pigs will work on drops while the chickens benefit from the insects that attack fruit trees.

I could throw a diagram together for those interested.

I also view the homestead as a system. Like any other type of system, there are many ways to go about getting maximum efficiency established but I think that is the fun of it. Not to mention the labor and fruits are a direct benefit to those involved.

Tripper

[bookwormom]

sounds like you are talking about what they called perma culture, I guess it still goes by that name.
I used to say if I was young and had the place I would grow orchards and have open range chickens to go with it. Low and behold, what do I read, some wineries in Germany have started keeping chickens in the vineyards to combat certain bugs that bother the grapevines.
I have to move my chickens. They can spend summers in the orchard and fall and winter in the garden.
I like the pig ideas, would love to keep pigs, especially since we also have an extra pond that does not hold water, ( a previous owner of our place had a bulldozer and there are ponds all over the place, most of them dry).

[gardenfay]

I think these are all great ideas. I had an idea for a chicken run surrounding our garden here a few years ago. Well, the garden was on our old place here in our little town of 250; we now have that place for sale and our new house is on a lot where I have no hens (was ready for a break from them)and will mainly be doing raised beds. Anyway, there are lots of stray cats and my daughter's cat all pooping in my garden; I was griping and my husband said we will fence the garden. So what I thought of was this. Fence the entire garden/orchard area and then fence it again about 3 or 4 feet past the original fence. I know it would be expensive unless you could get used fencing and i know you couldn't trellis anything the hens could ruin on the fence; but boy there are some advantages. First; my little flock of 20-25 hens could have the entire run of the garden all winter which is a good portion of the year in north MT. Then, any cat who wanted to poop in my garden would have to brave the hen run; as would any grasshopper or any thing else wanting to gnaw on my garden. i would still like to try this someday.

[MadTripper]

I've done some reading recently about keeping chickens with the orchard. Apparently, spring and fall are the best times of year due to the chicken manure. In high concentration, it can increase fire blight and some other unwelcome issues. I plan on letting them graze the orchard in the beginning and end of the growing season and perhaps allowing access through the winter. Additionally, I will have some grape vines but haven't figured out the placement as of yet. I've really been trying to get heirloom variety's that grow local. I clipped a northern spy from my grandparents farm which has taken root. Monday while I wad hunting, I stumbled on an old concord grape vine that produced this year so I took some clippings of it as well. Hopefully they will take as well.

I personally like the idea of multiple producers, be it animals or vegetations, working together to make a better product and ease up some of the chores. There seems to be a ton of ways to accomplish this.

As far as the idea of a fence within a fence. I read an article that detailed that however I can't seem to find it right now.

[AlchemyAcres]

If self-sufficiency is the goal...the homestead as a systen is pretty much essential.
I'm working toward a sustem where everything has value and is saleable.
Let plants and animals work for you, rather than you work for them.
Deversity and value added to build wealth,

I suppose a suitable alternative could be grown on the homestead, however it would need to have sufficient protein content.

Nettles fits the bill.



~Martin :)

[Deberosa]

If self-sufficiency is the goal...the homestead as a systen is pretty much essential.
I'm working toward a sustem where everything has value and is saleable.
Let plants and animals work for you, rather than you work for them.
Deversity and value added to build wealth,


Nettles fits the bill.



~Martin :)



What about COmfrey?

[AlchemyAcres]

Yeah, Comfrey is just about the equivalent of Nettles...but it gets lotsa negative press anymore....
is more expensive and slower to get started....but great none the less...


~Martin :)

[Deberosa]

Yeah, Comfrey is just about the equivalent of Nettles...but it gets lotsa negative press anymore....
is more expensive and slower to get started....but great none the less...


~Martin :)

Around here it grows like a weed so I am working on building up a big patch of it for feed. Spreads like crazy! I have lots of nettles too.

[Deberosa]

Here are my buff pullets venturing out from the hoop house in the sun. *They will spend the winter in this area clearing out weeds and bugs and fertilizing and tilling. *So far they are doing a great job! *In the spring I plan on selling some - I think I can get $15 each for a laying buff pullet - and putting the rest back in my hen house of laying chickens.

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b340/deberosa/053.jpg

By the way the field in the background is where the Dark Cornish meat chickens range - it's the garden with a cover crop of clover and alfalfa and rye grass for the winter. (and that's not my house - it's the neighbor across the road, the only one I can see until my screen of fir trees grows up).

[gardenfay]

I haven't heard that about the fire blight, MadTripper. That is info I'd sure need thinking about an idea like that. thank you.
Martin, you mentioned nettles. i dried quite a few in MN and fed them to the hogs and the hens, they sure ate them with no problem. Id just read about their high protein content till then.
And Deberosa, I wondered if your buff and your dark cornish rocks are breeds you have had in the past. Wondered because I think buffs and buff-crosses are some of the best hens a person can have. And on the dark cornish, i always wanted to try some and everytime i ordered chicks from murrays, they were out. always wondered how they are to eat and also if they are aggressive towards each other and people. thanks, c.

[Deberosa]

I haven't heard that about the fire blight, MadTripper. *That is info I'd sure need thinking about an idea like that. *thank you.
Martin, you mentioned nettles. *i dried quite a few in MN and fed them to the hogs and the hens, they sure ate them with no problem. Id just read about their high protein content till then. *
And Deberosa, I wondered if your buff and your dark cornish rocks are breeds you have had in the past. *Wondered because I think buffs and buff-crosses are some of the best hens a person can have. *And on the dark cornish, i always wanted to try some and everytime i ordered chicks from murrays, they were out. *always wondered how they are to eat and also if they are aggressive towards each other and people. thanks, c.
I have had buffs in the past - I had a large mix but the buffs became my favorite so I decided to stick with that. Also if you have a pure kind you can sell off the young pullets rather easily, especially buffs. People seem to want them specifically.

The dark cornish are not agressive at all. They sure look mean but they aren't. I also have 30 some roosters and they all seem to get along also. Of course that will decrease soon too. ;-) Going to keep the hens, I have about 10 and 3 or maybe 4 roos. With Thanksgiving happening we've been eating turkey instead of chicken but soon I will roast one and see how they taste too.

[gardenfay]

thank you that is great news on the dark cornish. next time i will keep trying until i get some. probably while you were posting this, i ran across your new post on the dark cornish experiment. that was very interesting. will probably ask you some q's about that later. thank you.
ps. its fun to find someone else who likes buffs. everyone around here likes layer breeds im not that fond of and have never heard of buffs till i got them.

[WileyCoyote]

Gardenfay - about 15 years ago, Mother Earth News ran an article about what they called a "chicken moat". Built around the family garden in a circle, with the coop inside the moat of two sets of chicken wire. A "bridge" of sorts with openings into the circular chicken yard/moat was built for the human crossover into the garden. It was said to keep pests out of the garden, and in the fall, one could simply allow the chickens into the garden for cleanup. It was pretty neat... is this what you had in mind?

[MadTripper]

Wiley hit it on the head. That is the article I had read.

As far as fire blight, I'm pretty sure it would depend on your area but I don't have enough experience with fruit trees to really say. The fella that introduced me to it can be found at this site:

http://www.themodernhomestead.us

He has 20+ years of experience in northern Virginia and has documented most of his findings as far as having a homestead. There is some great information and you can contact him if need be. Here is a direct link to his discussion on chickens in the orchard.

http://www.themodernhomestead.us/article/Orchard.html

Tripper

[gardenfay]

Thank you very much to WileyCoyote and MadTripper for your replies and info. Yes, the moat situation is what I'm talking about. One of the things that made me want it most was the grasshoppers. They would start really eating the rhubarb leaves, kale, etc. on the north end of the garden in late summer. Always made me so mad because the hens were pacing in their pen, itching to get at them and I couldn't trust them in the garden that time of year; but boy, if those little suckers had to go thru the hen run to get to the garden, it sure would be interesting to see what made it thru that gauntlet. haha. Also, of course some would hatchout in the garden i'm sure; but i've wondered as i watch hens scratching and eating and you cant tell what theyre eating if stuff like grasshopper eggs might be part of what they eat. I will go to those links about poultry in the orchard, too as soon as i can (probably cant today) and i know i will learn alot there too. If it is too big of a problem, a person could just not put fruit trees in the moat; but if you could, it would just have to help on alot of pests. Also, Tripper, I think you had mentioned grapevines and i just wanted to say that i would be careful with young grapevines and old agressive hens. I think they might scratch them to pieces. i had some barred rocks one time that could tear up the ground; well not as bad as a pig will; but pretty bad.
again,thank you both very much.

[MadTripper]

I'll keep that in mind as far as grapes go. My orchard will only be in its infancy stages this year so I may not even put the chickens in with the trees. I haven't decided on location for the grapes yet. I plan on using both the trees and grapes to provide shade for the chickens which with a combination of maggot buckets and moving waterers, I hope to keep the chickens from concentrating their manure in only one or two areas.

Tripper

[gardenfay]

That sounds good. I think you will have good luck on the chickens not concentrating their manure in one or two areas; i have never noticed a particular concentration of manure anywhere as long as they have adequate space; except maybe beneath the roost! haha But seriously, that sounds like a good plan.