Mojave Homestead?

[Steve_L]

Okay, just got back from a 5 month business trip to Victorville, Ca, and on advice of someone here, checked it out for homestead potential as I'm looking for a place for my homestead.

Lots of renewable energy resources in the area: Windmills all over the place, lots of wind, lots of solar. Water seems to be an issue, being the desert and all. I'd have to have some greenhouses to conserve water. Not sure how I could grow acres of grain or biofuels, and it was all graze, not pasture. I was hoping to do Dexter cows, not goats.

Land seems cheap if you get further out in the desert, but I wasn't able to find actual prices. Just signs that said "land: Dirt Cheap".

Not sure I like the people; for example they play a game where they put a dog in the middle of a busy intersection and see if the dog can make it out alive. The one thing I didn't need to see was to look into the dead eyes of that half smashed dog while a bunch of teenagers on the corner cheer and laugh. Ick.

I found that the dust from the desert messed up my sinuses. From atop a hill, I could see the dust storms in the distance.

I could probably make it work. Wife says she hates the desert, though. One big negative is that it is in California. I don't like the state government there.

Any desert homesteaders out there want to fill me in on some desert homestead pointers?

[NotSoFast]

While I can't help you with answers to your desert living question, I can strongly advise you to live elsewhere.

I've lived in CA for 22 years and as soon as I'm through with this job (or they're through with me), I'm outta here. Dirt cheap in CA means expensive anywhere else. And the laws keep getting more and more outrageous. Nah, not a good place to live anymore. Try Arizona or New Mexico for desert country. They're more reasonable about their laws.

[tufhelp]

Ditto!!! I think if you read your post in the frame of mind that you were not the author; I'm thinking you will see you answered all your own questions. Keep you hand on your wallet and move a bit more towards the East. Arizona, New Mexico...

[kawalekm]

Steve
If you don't have water, you don't have anything! I drive through that area on the way to my own homestead and I wouldn't even consider it. Stop focusing on the price of land and start paying attention to the price of water.

Even in the state of California, government interference decreases in proportion to how far off the paved roads you are. Other than property tax, the state of California couldn't care less that my homestead exists!

[jonvee]

Nope, nada, not a chance would I live in the Ca desert. I've lived in So Cal all my life and can tell you that water is a HUGE issue and only going to get worse as water in the north (where it all orginates from) becomes scarce.

Another thing to remember is that when the mojave was opened to mass residential developments it was affordable to the dregs of Los Angeles and other urban areas. So, they brought their urban ways with them.

[Aamylf]

And if your other half 'hates the desert' it should be a big consideration. Having an unhappy partner is about the same as having limited water!

[DM]

Steve
If you don't have water, you don't have anything! I drive through that area on the way to my own homestead and I wouldn't even consider it. Stop focusing on the price of land and start paying attention to the price of water.

Even in the state of California, government interference decreases in proportion to how far off the paved roads you are. Other than property tax, the state of California couldn't care less that my homestead exists!

So, are you saying the Ca. gun and hunting laws don't pretain to you either? That's already too much freedom taken away, let alone all the other problems there.

DM

[MooseToo]

anybody want to bet that the ca chamber of commerce had NOTHING to do with any of the responses so far ?

[kawalekm]

So, are you saying the Ca. gun and hunting laws don't pretain to you either? That's already too much freedom taken away, let alone all the other problems there.

DM
Yup!
Even with all of California's onerous "laws", I've still managed to legally accumulate almost 20 guns, including pistols and AR's. I've still managed to buy thousands of primers and pounds of gunpowder to make all those thousands of rounds of nasty lead-cast ammunition. And I still am able to hunt on the abundant public land the stretches the length of the Sierra. A lot better than those states back east where they don't even let you hunt a deer with a rifle.

[DM]

Yup!
Even with all of California's onerous "laws", I've still managed to legally accumulate almost 20 guns, including pistols and AR's. I've still managed to buy thousands of primers and pounds of gunpowder to make all those thousands of rounds of nasty lead-cast ammunition. And I still am able to hunt on the abundant public land the stretches the length of the Sierra. A lot better than those states back east where they don't even let you hunt a deer with a rifle.

Many of your worst gun laws are just starting to kick in, so good thing you have stock piled some guns and ammo. NOW, i'm betting in the future (already law there in some places) you won't beable to hunt with lead core bullets. I guess you will still beable to target practise with them, at least for now.

DM

[rpdoon]

I know this won't be popular.. but we just bought land to homestead / retire, to in the california high desert, and I don't belong to the chamber or anything at all. Lived in Los Angeles my whole life. This is what I would like to share.

Water is the most important issue, we are at 2,900' elevation off the back side of Big Bear, and our 350' well gives us 20 gal per min of the best water i have ever tasted. we had water at 165' and just went down to 350' ($16,000.00) which should give us water forever as I have heard the water table out here has not fluctuated more than 10 feet in 40 years.

It is true the farther off the pavement you get the less anyone cares about what you do.(after water supply, the second biggest reason we picked here.) Our nearest neighbor is about 1/2 mile away.

We have enough guns to keep the hoardes at bay for a VERY long time. Most people out here are prepared to do so. You can buy ammo at the local grocery store.
We have 40 acres with a house and a bunkhouse and are adding to the infastructure as fast as we can, getting away every weekend to work out here. We paid $119,000. last year. (it was a real steal, but there are great buys out here.) we have a 5 year plan to be pretty independent by the time we retire. ANYTHING grows here with water. It is hot and dry in the summer (95 -104) and cold in the winter (nites 25 - 35 ) spring and fall are just beautiful.

It is not for everyone, but we really love the wide open spaces and the views and clean air. Good luck in whatever you decide to do. rpdoon

[jonvee]

rpdoon - how was the heat up there today. It was 111 at my house and I live 5 miles from the coast.

[rpdoon]

Hi, we were in the desert all weekend and the temps were about 96 and dry.. where we live in LA, about 8 miles from the ocean, it was about 105! Yesterday it was almost 110 in LA and broke the records, Go figure, we did not have a very hot summer here in So. Cal for all intents and purposes. In the desert it did not get over 90 till the middle of June. So we can take it for a week or so and then we'll start whining about how cold it is when it is in the 50's at night. Natives from California are pretty sissy when it comes to the weather.

[Aamylf]

RP -- one of the things I like about homesteaders in general is they don't really care what YOU do as long as you're happy doing it and it isn't at their expense -- so if you are happy to live in CA, I don't think you'll find 2 on this forum who truly care :-) I hope to stay in FL, albeit a bit north of here, when we finally get our place, but we have at least one person who can't wait to leave NFL to get to TX. And ain't it grand that we still have the freedom and ability to do that -- stay or leave! Glad you found what makes you happy.

[patience]

Been to Victorville. No water out there, no trees, except Joshua trees, and 115 degrees. I was REAL glad to get back to Indiana. :eek:

[humbug]

Steve I thought you were looking in Nevada..Great Basin. Two positive things about Nevada in that area..low real estate taxes and no state income tax....But regardless you need water no matter where you go.

[Steve_L]

Well... if you have enough energy, you can get water. I was thinking a cistern and collection system for water for a greenhouse (which I would keep closed to limit water loss by evaporation) and an EcoloBlue for drinking water. 4 gallons of drinking water a day at 280 watts isn't too bad. Composting toilets would solve the "flush" problem.

Adding a well to the system would make it pretty reliable system, especially in the winter when the humidity is low.

The problem would be growing things like grains or biofuel crops - those would take up too much area for a greenhouse.

[kawalekm]

Well... if you have enough energy, you can get water. I was thinking a cistern and collection system for water for a greenhouse (which I would keep closed to limit water loss by evaporation) and an EcoloBlue for drinking water. 4 gallons of drinking water a day at 280 watts isn't too bad. Composting toilets would solve the "flush" problem.

Adding a well to the system would make it pretty reliable system, especially in the winter when the humidity is low.

The problem would be growing things like grains or biofuel crops - those would take up too much area for a greenhouse.
Steve, let's go through the numbers, do the math, and come up with a REAL idea of what you would need to live out there. Let's start with rainwater collection (want this myself). Let's say you'd consume about 30,000 gallons of water per year. Where does this number come from? At my own homestead I have to pump every single drop of water I consume, so I pay VERY carefull attention to how much water I am using. I'd say that for this season I'll be consuming about 25,000 gallons of water, the bulk of which is going to irrigation of the orchard/garden. I log all the generator time including gallons of gas consumed for how many gallons of water pumped.

If the average rainfall in Victorville is about 6" per year you'd need about 8000 square feet of roof to collect that much water (90 X 90 foot building). That's NOT the size of a residential home, but a commercial building. How will you store that much water? Commercial tanks (which I use) cost about 1$ per gallon. The largest tank you can install without a permit is 5000 gallons and you'd need 6 of them. That would run you about 30,000 dollors right there. Another alternative is a deep water solar well pump into a single tank. Again, you're talking real money to pump water from very deep. My own well is 450' deep, and I'm getting about 3-4X as much rainfall in my area as Victorville.

A composting toilet needs carbon imputs to properly compost human waste. Carbon can be things like newspaper, dry grass clippings, sawdust, ect; BUT the important thing is that the ratio of carbon to human waste is at least 20:1. That means to compost your own poop (sorry) you'd need at least 20lbs of paper/clippings/sawdust per person per poop per day. Let's say you and your wife only go to the toilet once per day (hey, do you think that is realistic?) and you each "deposit" one pound of "stuff". That means you'll need at least 15,000 lbs of carbon to compost one year's of human waste. Are you going to shread 7.5 tons of newpaper? Shovel 7.5 tons of sawdust? Think about that!

There's a reason why the desert is some empty and why so few people live there. Again, I have to admonish you to very seriously look at how much water you will need to be self-sufficient before you start laying your money down!
Good luck to you,
Michael

[TSJ]

Good post, Michael.

I've seen it hit 112 degress at midnight in the Mojave during the summer. I don't care what anybody says about lack of humidity, dry heat or what ever, it was like a blast furnance. It is hard to have a self sustaining lifestyle in that environment.

The land would have to have electricity available and hopefully some kind of community water system in order to homestead year around. You can garden to a certain degree but as others have pointed out, you need access to water.

You can google "the prudent homemaker". She lives in Las Vegas and gardens in her back yard but she has the Las Vegas community water system available to her as well as electricity, etc.(she lives in a suburb). She also air conditions her walk in pantry which is in the garage in order to keep the food edible and to store for a long period of time. The food wouldn't last w/o air condtioning. That is to say the flour, oil and canned goods go bad in extreme heat in a few months.

If one wants to live in the desert for the freedom to ride your dirt motorcycle anywhere, prospect for gold and have beautiful starry skys at night then by all means follow your bliss. But don't expect to have a self sustaining life style w/o the infrastructure in place to support it. Just my thoughts.