Finlands spin on simple living.

[Buck]

The story.......
"
New York – What is true luxury? Just when I thought I'd settled on my answer – a flat-screen TV the size of Kansas and a leather-upholstered car that can travel at triple the speed limit – I made several visits to Finland. Shortly after my return the financial crisis hit. Finland has been on my mind ever since. In these hard times, we could learn a few things about luxury from the Finns.
Strolling the streets of Helsinki, the capital, I noticed a lack of grand architecture and opulent homes, and an abundance of modest cars. Helsinki was a nice enough city, and it had some gems of modern design, but part of me felt that Finland was a bit dull. And, strangely, some of the Finns I met seemed to take pride in this.
Finland seemed even duller on my next visit in July. The weather was glorious, but Helsinki felt like a ghost town. I learned that most Finns take a five-week summer vacation, and that many of them disappear for the entire time to tiny, bare-bones cottages in the woods. Curious, I wrangled an invitation to visit one of these secluded cabins. It was meticulously cared for, but lacked any creature comforts. I quickly realized that there was nothing to do and no one to see.
After a couple of days at the cabin I was a convert. It was marvelously relaxing, and I realized the Finns were on to something – a form of luxury that had little to do with high-end products, the quest to acquire them, or the need to show them off. While some Finns pursue the material trappings of success, most seem to feel that the pleasures of time and solitude are more precious.
During my visits, I met some North American expats, including a Canadian who'd lived in the US for years. "I talk to friends back in North America," he told me, "and they tell me about all the latest toys they've bought. Here I'm just puttering away on my little house like a Finn, and that's about it. The pace of life is slower. I like that."
Americans in Finland shared similar sentiments. But they weren't naive about the place, and there was a reason they weren't buying the latest toys. "I'll never become rich in Finland," one explained, "the taxes are just too high." But for him it was a trade-off worth making. "Great healthcare, basically free. My kids get one of the best educations in the world, free." By the way, that includes college, free. He had no plans to move back to the States.
As I spent more time in Helsinki, my own notion of the luxuries available in Finland expanded to include more than just the quiet pleasures of a cabin getaway. Finnish cities are filled with universally well-maintained and high-quality schools, hospitals, buses, trains, and parks. While most Finns might never be able to own a well-appointed SUV or a big house, they value the less-tangible assets they do have, which add up to quality of life and peace of mind.
Finland doesn't pay lip service to providing a level playing field for all its citizens. It really does give the vast majority of its citizens a fair and equal chance in life, in a way that the US just doesn't, no matter how much Americans like to think it does.
Finland has its downsides, of course. The Finns I met described high rates of depression and alcoholism among their countrymen, and admitted that many Finns seem to suffer from low self-esteem. When I returned to the dynamic bustle of New York, I was happy to be back, even with the financial crisis decimating the economy.
Compared with Finns, Americans have qualities I admire and treasure: optimism, an entrepreneurial spirit, and a willingness to be opinionated, for starters. These qualities will help us fight our way back to economic health.
But let's face it: The single-minded pursuit of outsized material consumption helped get us into this mess. As we struggle to get back on our feet, perhaps we should pause for our own "Finnish moment."
Trevor Corson is the author of "The Secret Life of Lobsters" and "The Story of Sushi: An Unlikely Saga of Raw Fish and Rice.""

http://news.yahoo.com/s/csm/20090501/cm_csm/ycorson

[Bones]

The story.......
"
........ Helsinki was a nice enough city, *
Americans in Finland shared similar sentiments. But they weren't naive about the place, and there was a reason they weren't buying the latest toys. [b]"I'll never become rich in Finland," one explained, "the taxes are just too high." But for him it was a trade-off worth making. "Great healthcare, basically free. My kids get one of the best educations in the world, free." By the way, that includes college, free. * [b]

Finland has its downsides, of course. The Finns I met described high rates of depression and alcoholism among their countrymen, and admitted that many Finns seem to suffer from low self-esteem.
B

http://news.yahoo.com/s/csm/20090501/cm_csm/ycorson


I have been to Helsinki myself nice enough city but would not want to live there. *The article failed to mention that most of those things Americans call creature comforts like our big screen tv's *and vehicles aren't bought by many because they are too dang expensive with the duty import fees that are charged.

Also to spout I wont get rich here because the taxes are too high and then brag about free health care and free school for all is an oxymoron (or the man is a moron) *Its not free he is paying for it when he pays those high tax rates. *Where does he get the idea its free????

*Wonder why so many suffer from low self esteem could it be because so many do not earn what they get from the government? *They has no sense of worth because they hang out and collect from the Gov welfare system. *On the ferry I took over to Estonia I talked to several Finnish who were heading back to there homes in Estonia. *Seems the cost of living is cheaper in Estonia so they only come back once a month to collect their welfare checks. *

I encourage all that think the Finnish lifestyle is for them to please pack their bags and head on over try it out for awhile and see if you like it if you do apply for citizenship and leave my country alone. *It was never designed or meant to be a socialist country. *IT was designed for "you get what you pay for and no more no less".

[dearg]

Yeah, they get free health care but there is something wrong with the system or the suicide rates would not be so high.

http://fathersforlife.org/health/who_suicide_rates.htm#Table_B

[Buck]

Bones, thanks for your perspective here. It will help balance out the
discussion.

[rantinraven]

I think many of us here are already living this way or at least doing what we can to achieve it. I admire the fact that they don't have to "make a show" in front of people.

I have to say that because of the way we live I am embarrassed at times for family or friends I knew to come in from out of state. I don't have nice furniture or big screen TV's and my house... well lets just say we have worked diligently for years and its still not finished. With all that being said we do have a luxury that most everyone I know doesn't have. Time.

Dh recently went to work outside of the house to build back up our savings before this baby is born but for the 2 years before that he never had to leave if he didn't want to. He did jobs here and we worked online but he saw the kids everyday and if we wanted to take a 5 day camping trip it was no biggie. I think we all make sacrifices here or there for the things that are important.

Individually, whatever those things are, we eventually get to a point where we can get them. We (people on this forum) are not much different than the Finns its just the rest of the country that needs some help.

I personally wouldn't want to be like them as far as how their system works. I resent the fact that we live simply and within our means and our neighbors spend spend spend but then "expect" help and to still keep their belongings. If I couldn't pay a bill I wouldn't go to my neighbor and demand they pay it. I feel like that is what the economy has come to. A bunch of people that think they are "entitled" to the American dream regardless of work ethic, spending habits, or responsibilities.

My house isn't perfect, I will be the first to admit that. However my neighbors, friends, and family didn't pay for it. I didn't borrow money that I couldn't afford to pay back, and we paid 2 house payments every month to pay it off. During that time we kept our bills low, and ate beans and cornbread and fried potatoes ALOT. We didn't buy new clothes, we didn't go out to eat or too the movies, or any other normal activity for people our age (at the time we were 24 and 21).

Now the goal is to eventually get out in the country, and guess what, we are back to beans and potatoes, and cornbread, back to no extra spending, and we save the money that we "would've" had to pay on house payments.

Sorry that was more long winded than I intended it to be.

[Buck]

Sorry that was more long winded than I intended it to be.


It's quite alright. You post adds much to this discussion. 8)

[Bones]

......I personally wouldn't want to be like them as far as how their system works. I resent the fact that we live simply and within our means and our neighbors spend spend spend but then "expect" help and to still keep their belongings. *If I couldn't pay a bill I wouldn't go to my neighbor and demand they pay it. I feel like that is what the economy has come to. A bunch of people that think they are "entitled" to the American dream regardless of work ethic, spending habits, or responsibilities.

My house isn't perfect, I will be the first to admit that. However my neighbors, friends, and family didn't pay for it. I didn't borrow money that I couldn't afford to pay back, and we paid 2 house payments every month to pay it off. During that time we kept our bills low, and ate beans and cornbread and fried potatoes ALOT. We didn't buy new clothes, we didn't go out to eat or too the movies, or any other normal activity *for people our age (at the time we were 24 and 21). *
Sorry that was more long winded than I intended it to be.


We have creature comforts but we paid for them and own nothing to the credit card companies in fact they pay me to use them and we pay them off in full every month. I think that what upsets most of us the most is those who expect something for nothing. I have a niece who is trying to get pregnant so she can go on welfare. This girl was A/B honor roll in school but her mother was always wishy washy on the punishment. Ground her for punishment but never follow through it lasted a day or two then it was always easier to just let it go. Won't go to work to easy to bum from friends and now figures if she gets pregnant she will be set for life.
I am all for helping out somebody who is truly struggling ie not creature comforts no cell phone, no cable, not getting your nails done and that tan booth time. If fact I have helped those out. But if you can afford a tattoo, tan booth time, nails done then you dang well can afford medical insurance. First thing for welfare reform would be you got a cell phone no check, every week a urinalysis that must be passed before any check or food stamps are issued. You have kids then produce who the father is or sorry no extra for the kids cause the father is darn sure going pay his share as well. He does not have a job thats okay we will just run a tab for him until he does. OH yeah no high school diploma then you are in school until you get one you dont want to go then sorry no check. We will pick up your child care at the school while you are getting your diploma. Time limit on welfare for healthy able bodied people is two years. I could go on but the government is not interested in fixing it cause they dont think it is broke

[flatwater]

The stats on the suicides , alcohalism , and mental health problems and low self asteem all have to stem from some where. I may be wrong here but don't they have a heavy drug problem and open prostitution ?

[Global_Gal]

*But if you can afford a tattoo, tan booth time, nails done then you dang well can afford medical insurance. *


DangO! Let me know where I can get medical insurance that cheap. :o

[Katrina-Sisu]

I've lived up here now for quite a bit and that article was written from a purely tourist standpoint.

Finland has it's good points but health care isn't free at all. We pay a 25 euro fee per year to use the doc and then 15 euros per visit unless it's for women's health or pediatric. It's still cheaper than an HMO or that stuff.

Meds are cheaper up here though, that's the plus. I had dental surgery a couple years back and all my pain meds and antibiotics costed around 15 euros. That did surprise me.

Honestly I don't see alot of difference between America and Finland the longer I've lived here. We do have very high taxes and less private business, but red tape is red tape anywhere lol.

Kat

[Katrina-Sisu]

The stats on the suicides , alcohalism , and mental health problems and low self asteem all have to stem from some where. I may be wrong here but don't they have a heavy drug problem and open prostitution ?

VERY dark, long winters.

It's May and we're just getting leaves on trees. Winter can last upwards of 8 months here and we're in southern Finland. Lapland has it way worse than us.

There is a problem with drugs, usuallly in cities. Mostly the 'drug' of choice is booze up here though. Prostitution is open but it's mostly in night clubs and such..they like to keep it off the streets to promote the 'clean image' of Finland.

Kat

[Mister_Mxyzptlk]

Let me know where I can get medical insurance that cheap.

You can get that policy from Pixie, Unicorn and Bigfoot in the fantasy land that Conservatives live in. If you have a small family and are stuck in the real world with the rest of us you are lucky to get away with $600 a month for a policy with a high deductible. For Full Coverage you will drop at least $1,000 a month. If you have pre-existing conditions the price will go up exponentially.

That would buy a lot of tattoos and tanning booth sessions. You'd look like a Hells Angel from Vera Cruz within six months if you spent that kind of money on tramp stamps and spray tan.

[EarthMama]

Thanks for sharing this story, Buck. I don't get off the homestead much, except to places in my own town, so even reading about how things are done in other places is a real treat for me. Very interesting indeed.

[Michael32170]

You can get that policy from Pixie, Unicorn and Bigfoot in the fantasy land that Conservatives live in. *If you have a small family and are stuck in the real world with the rest of us you are lucky to get away with $600 a month for a policy with a high deductible. *For Full Coverage you will drop at least $1,000 a month. *If you have pre-existing conditions the price will go up exponentially.

That would buy a lot of tattoos and tanning booth sessions. *You'd look like a Hells Angel from Vera Cruz within six months if you spent that kind of money on tramp stamps and spray tan.



I'm getting Blue Cross and Blue shield for $233 per month.

[Michael32170]

Cigna


Get a Quote for Individual/Family Health Insurance


Quote ID: 139701-1 Client: Test application Coverage: Applicant Only Requested Effective Date: 05/15/2009



Enter Applicant Info >> Review >> Premium Break Down

Plan name Deductible * Coinsurance* Office Visit Preventive Care Prescription Drug Coverage** Annual
Out-of-Pocket Max* Total Monthly Premium

Open Access 5000 Ind:$5,000/$10,000
Fam:$10,000/$20,000 80%/60% $30/$60 Copay $30/$60 Copay $10/$35/$60 Copay
Mail: $25/$85/$150 Copay Ind:$5,000/$10,000
Fam:$10,000/$20,000 $230.00 Apply Now
Health Savings 5000 Ind:$5000/$10000
Fam:$10,000/$20,000 100%/60% 100% Coinsurance 100% Coinsurance; Deductible waived 100% Coinsurance Ind:$5,000/$15,000
Fam:$10,000/$30,000 $233.00 Apply Now
Open Access 3000 Ind:$3,000/$6,000
Fam:$6,000/$12,000 80%/60% $30/$60 Copay $30/$60 Copay $10/$35/$60 Copay
Mail: $25/$85/$150 Copay Ind:$5,000/$10,000
Fam:$10,000/$20,000 $271.00 Apply Now
Health Savings 3000 Ind:$3,000/$6,000
Fam:$6,000/$12,000 100%/60% 100% Coinsurance 100% Coinsurance; Deductible waived 100% Coinsurance Ind:$3,000/$9,000
Fam:$6,000/$18,000 $280.00 Apply Now
Open Access 2000 Ind:$2,000/$4,000
Fam:$4,000/$8,000 80%/60% $25/$50 Copay $25/$50 Copay $10/$35/$60 Copay
Mail: $25/$85/$150 Copay Ind:$3,000/$6,000
Fam:$6,000/$12,000 $306.00 Apply Now
Health Savings 1500 Ind:$1,500/$3,000
Fam:$3,000/$6,000 80%/60% 80% Coinsurance 100% Coinsurance; Deductible waived $10/$35/$60 Copay
Mail: $25/$85/$150 Copay Ind:$3,000/$9,000
Fam:$6,000/$18,000 $358.00 Apply Now
Open Access 1000 Ind:$1,000/$2,000
Fam:$2,000/$4,000 80%/60% $25/$50 Copay $25/$50 Copay $10/$35/$60 Copay
Mail: $25/$85/$150 Copay Ind:$3,000/$6,000
Fam:$6,000/$12,000 $402.00 Apply Now




* In-network / Out-of-network benefits
** Generic/Preferred Brand/Non-Preferred Brand

Coinsurance percentage represents what CIGNA pays; deductible may apply. Copay is a flat service charge that plan members are responsible to pay for services; deductible may apply.

In Texas, Open Access Plus plans are considered Preferred Provider plans with certain managed care features.

This material is for information purposes only and not an offer or contract. Plans may be subject to medical underwriting or other restrictions. Rates and benefits vary by location. Rates are subject to change based on rate increases, demographics and underwriting guidelines. Information is subject to change. This document highlights some of the benefits available under these plans. For specific costs and further detail of the coverage, including exclusions, any reductions or limitations and the terms under which the policy may be continued in force, consult the Summary of Benefits or Policy Booklet.

Pre-existing condition is the existence of symptoms which would cause an ordinarily prudent person to seek diagnosis, care, or treatment within a 12 month period preceding the Effective Date of the coverage of the Insured Person or a condition for which medical advice or treatment was recommend by a Physician or received from a Physician within a 12 month period preceding the Effective Date of the coverage of the Insured Person.

[Mister_Mxyzptlk]

I'm getting Blue Cross and Blue shield for $233 per month.

Is this the plan you are talking about?

Plan name: Health Savings 5000
Deductible: Ind:$5000/$10000 Fam:$10,000/$20,000
Coinsurance: 100%/60%
Office Visit: 100% Coinsurance
Preventive Care: 100% Coinsurance
Prescription Drug Coverage: Deductible waived 100% Coinsurance
Annual Out-of-Pocket Max: Ind:$5,000/$15,000 Fam:$10,000/$30,000
Total Monthly Premium: $233.00

You are aware that the Deductible has to be met before the coverage is engaged? This means that the first $5,000 of medical bills are your problem as a single person. The first $10,000 of medical bills are your problem if you have a family. That's a rather large chunk of change. Do you have ten grand in savings? Or would you have to go to credit cards or a second mortgage?

Also if you have a small family of lets say three (which I mentioned in my post) and both parents are in good health and don't smoke that premium will double to $466 and the kid will cost about 50% of an adult so add another $115 so that is, um... lets see... $581 a month (pretty damn close to my figure of $600 in the original post). Which BTW is a bit less than my wife and I pay for the group policy at her work which is close to the same policy you are talking about here. We pay closer to $640 a month because I ain't no spring chicken and our family deductible is $5,600 instead of the whopping $10,000 for this plan.

If a person table rates higher than a 1 or 2 the premiums will go up also. If they table rate at 6 to 8 then they may not get insurance at all or they may have to take riders for their preexisting conditions. That is my case, I can't get private insurance in my area at all. We have to take whatever our employers are willing to give us. In the case of my job, that is nothing. Fortunately my wife works for a soulless corporation that has a passable plan. The bookkeeper at my work pays $500 a month for her insurance. For just her. Fortunately her husband is a Vietnam Vet and can go to a VA Hospital for free. She table rates around a 5 or 6 because of age (61) and a tumor ten years ago.

[Bones]

oh and those long summer days. Part of the problem in a bar drinking seems like you have been in there forever but you come outside and its still daylight outside. Heck you say its still early so back in and drink some more.

Nail done $22 a week = $88 a month
Tanning booth = $40 a month
Cable TV= $59 a month
Cell Phone bill $69 a month
Cigarettes $35 a week = $140 a month

Total= $396 a month and they are using the state system (read I am paying for it). To pay for their kids medical bill.
So on top of my own medical insurance I am front the cost of theirs as well. Insurance for where they work is $280 for the family plan and they would still have money left over to buy insurance for their car which they only go get when they get pulled over and half to go to court and prove they have insurance and they never make another payment until they get caught again.

[Mister_Mxyzptlk]

Insurance for where they work is $280 for the family plan

Where would that be? What would such a plan cover? Even when my wife worked for Waste Management and we were on a real good plan that covered most everything AND the company picked up half the tab we didn't get it that cheep. It was still close to $600 a month for the insurance for our family of three.

Now that was a hell of a policy though. $50 copay for emergency room visits and hospitalizations. $30 for specialist visits and $20 for GP visits. But still the gross cost as $1200 a month. I know, I had to gut out the COBRA checks when my wife's job moved our of state.

At her next job we got crappy insurance, Far less covered, a rather nasty deductible and the company didn't pick up any of the tab. That cost $1,000 a month. Now our policy covers even less and it costs us close to $400 a month.

So again I ask, where is this wonderful company and what does the policy actually cover? These are important questions.

[Buck]

"Cigarettes $35 a week = $140 a month "

This expense can be reduced to about $140 a year by switching to a
pipe and buying bulk pipe tobacco available from many stores and online
vendors.

[Bones]

So again I ask, where is this wonderful company and what does the policy actually cover? *These are important questions.

Sorry you are right MISTER much better to have no insurance at all and let those that are responsible cover the cost through their tax dollars.

Seems from all you have posted here you have had a streak of bad luck your whole life and none of it seems to be your fault. From your parents not wanting you to the VA screwing you out of your GI bill (really would like to hear that story) Not sure how you thought you were only qualified to only be a janitor after your stay in the Army. What was your MOS. This site has a converter that translates Military jargon into civilian language. http://www.military.com/Careers/Content1?file=skills_leader.htm&area=Content (http://LINKADDRESS) Did you contact your county VA rep for any help. All counties have them. Is it possible that some of your medical conditions are covered by the VA?

[Bones]

"Cigarettes $35 a week = $140 a month "

This expense can be reduced to about $140 a year by *switching to a
pipe and buying bulk pipe tobacco available from many stores and online
vendors.

Buck you know most people are too lazy to be bothered by that. A guy that used to work for me did for a time roll his own with a cigarette rolling machine he used to sit a home the night before and roll all the ones him and his wife would smoke but it became to inconvenient and they went back to ready made ones.
Kind of like beer. I could save some money making my own beer but it is so convenient to just pay the $14 for a case of Miller/Bud/Coors and be done with it.

[Buck]

Buck you know most people are too lazy to be bothered by that. *A guy that used to work for me did for a time roll his own with a cigarette rolling machine he used to sit a home the night before and roll all the ones him and his wife would smoke but it became to inconvenient and they went back to ready made ones. *
*Kind of like beer. *I could save some money making my own beer but it is so convenient to just pay the $14 for a case of Miller/Bud/Coors and be done with it.

Nope, Allow me to politely disagree. Once you learn to smoke a pipe they
never go back to nasty cigarettes. ;D ;D

Cigarettes compared to a pipe is like comparing Britney Spears to Mozart!8)

[johnny]

Buck'o--dont ya be a messin with my man Mozzie--ha ha ha.

Back in the day when I puffed I bought 5 pounds at a time and it saved a ton plus got exactly what I wanted.
And that was when cigs and tobacco were both cheap.
Even had a cig machine once and that was like getting them for less than half price but fizzled out when I tried to grow my own tobacco--bugs and sun got it before I could it seemed. I could make up a couple days supply on my roller while watching Gunsmoke or Have Gun Will Travel--ha ha.
I remember my grand mother had a corn cob pipe and smoked 5 Brothers--wow--you talk about strong--whewie!!!!!!!! Only at home though--ha.

[johnny]

Gramps made his own beer too and lowered it down the well to work and cool. That was good stuff!

[firegirl969]

Just a note on welfare and cell phones. Our state (GA) has a company offering cell phones for like $10 a month for senior citizens who qualify for welfare (below government poverty level). This is for their security. Many of my seniors that attend the center are getting pre-qualified (by me) for such services. I think it will benefit many of them. We don't need to pre-judge all of those who receive governement assistance based on what others do. There are services out there for special groups, and I was just making you aware of this one.

[johnny]

Dont know about here but in Okla they have their program on a phone and a friend gets his for less than 4 bucks a month--land line--not cell.

Yes, you are right as there are many many helpful programs available to those that qualify. I dont and am happy that I dont but its nice to know there are some available if needed. Thanks

[shadowood]

WOW!!!
I should stop complaining about the cost of my insurance. ;D

Through work I pay $400.00 a month for me and my daughter. Co-pays are $10 for doctor/$20 for specialist/$50 for ER/$200 for hospital stay(includes surgery & everything). No deductable and covers up to a couple million a year.

Although two years ago I paid $100 a month for the same plan. That was actually for my daughter, as the plan was free for me.

So I will continue to grumble because the cost from Blue Cross has doubled every year.

My company is looking into insuring their employees mostly out of pocket, they think this would be much cheeper.

[mtwildflower]

Just a note on welfare and cell phones. *Our state (GA) has a company offering cell phones for like $10 a month for senior citizens who qualify for welfare (below government poverty level). *This is for their security. *Many of my seniors that attend the center are getting pre-qualified (by me) for such services. *I think it will benefit many of them. We don't need to pre-judge all of those who receive governement assistance based on what others do. There are services out there for special groups, and I was just making you aware of this one.

I'm with you on this. I don't think there is anything wrong with having a simple phone, nothing super duper fancy, but I tell you, my cell phone is the LAST thing I would give up. Communication is a huge deal and it's how I keep tabs with my kids and hubby. I've given up my house phone and internet in the past, but always keep my cell phone. With little kids and having to go out on the road alone and wanting to be available for my teenagers all time, even when I have to run errands, it's just too valuable to me.

But, back to Finland....