What would you do?

[okiedokie]

folks,,we have been wrestling with a quandry,,we have dear friends that we talk to about what we face as a country, a people,,they see it:lazy2:, but just laugh it off:girl_wacko:,(ie) "i will have to feel it first before i do anything",,,do we ,after it's too late, still help,,i guess it's the old story of the grasshopper and the ant,,,do the ant's still help?. Even after ALL the pre warning? (links to websites, articles, etc.) As Christians we know what we are asked to do. As an aside, they take all their extra and head to the casino. was that bad of us for telling you that?:dirol: just asking!!

[CapeCMom]

Until the MSM starts telling the truth about the State of this Nation there are many people who will choose to stay asleep. Remember its easier than facing the truth. There are some that no matter what you do or say, they will refuse to believe or heed the warnings until it is too late. Remember Katrina. There are others that you don't think that are listening but really are. Just keep the dialogue open and don't be too pushy. Remind them how much you adore them as friends and you are only saying this because you care.

[krapgame]

It sounds like you're asking this from a Christian standpoint, so here's mine. There is a theological concept called "prevenient grace" which basically states that the will for you to come to the Father has to come FROM the Father. I believe that completely. He doesn't put the will in everyone to respond to His call, and sometimes it's not there all the time. It could be that he just hasn't given your friends the capacity to hear the truth yet. Maybe he gave them the capacity to hear it some time ago and when they didn't act on it (stand in faith) it grieved the spirit away. It's a hard thing to face, but not everyone will respond to the truth and you just have to accept that as their fate. Remember, Noah told all his neighbors it was gonna rain, but he didn't let them in the boat after it started.

If you'd asked from a secular standpoint, I'd have quoted the old standby, "never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig."

Good luck!

[Aamylf]

DH and i have this conversation at least once a week.

My sister is a hardcore liberal who thinks the constitution is a dusty old document that means nothing. His sister is a socialist/darned near communist (and admits it freely). People like them have created what we face. We would really have a hard time taking them in.

On the other hand, we have friends who hear and sort of understand, but who are either at the 'immobilized by fear' stage or the 'but we still have time, right?" stage -- and those we probably would take in or share with.

I think there will be so many grasshoppers in the street that we will have to be very careful who we ants help -- I told one dear, dear friend her husband can come because he knows how to fix anything mechanical, but she needs to get some practical skills before we let her in!:sarcastic:

[docsoos]

In times of dire need and strife, those liberal ideals mentioned here will be tossed to the winds, IF it's expedient for those that espouse them. Reality has a nasty habit of quickly educating the uninformed, the clueless, and fantasy believers in a SHTF situation.

I suspect a lot of "Ants" will attempt to help certain "grasshoppers" they know or are related to, but will be put to the test once their "I need help" attitude turns to "we need to do things MY way" attitude, once they are safe and comfortable. That's when they should be shown the door, freezing cold or not, possibly at gunpoint. Better to leave them to their own bad choices, then have to forcibly remove them when they get intolerable or parasitic.

Charity begins at HOME. What is the sense in preparing for you and yours, only to let someone who has done absolutely nothing to secure their future, come in and ruin it for you and your family? Just a thought..... :D

DocSoos

[NCLee]

Okiedokie, I went through the same quandry. Especially with some family members.

The end result is that this ant has stopped trying to get those grasshoppers to change their ways. Based on my experience, they won't do anything until they WANT to do something.

Frankly, I got tired of hearing the twin excuses of "I don't have time." and "I don't have the money.". These from people who have both the time and money to do what they WANT to do. While the "want to" varies by individual, it usually consists of some type of expensive entertainment, ranging from tickets to concerts, fancy car tire rims, monster size flat screen TV's, ... well, the list could go on for quite a while.

One family member gave away their freezer because they don't have time to cook what was stored in it. (Gave the food away, too.) Another gave away canning equipment and cast iron cookware because they bought a flat top electric stove. (Their home is heated with natural gas, BTW.) Another list that can go on......

With some people, they aren't willing to do the WORK associated with a more self-sufficient lifestyle. No way they'll spend hours in the kitchen canning when the lure of shopping malls and fast food calls to them.

The answer to the un-asked portion of your quandry is that I don't know. I don't know, for sure, when/if TSHTF and they come with their hands out for help. While we'll help to the extent that we can, we can't help everyone. I do know that some of our decision will be based on who has tried to help themselves. Beyond that, we'll just make the hard decisions when the time comes and pray that we make the right ones.

Lee

[NCLee]

Charity begins at HOME. What is the sense in preparing for you and yours, only to let someone who has done absolutely nothing to secure their future, come in and ruin it for you and your family? Just a thought..... :D

DocSoos

We were posting at the same time. :)

You said it better than I could.

Lee

[Laura]

folks,,we have been wrestling with a quandry,,we have dear friends that we talk to about what we face as a country, a people,,they see it:lazy2:, but just laugh it off:girl_wacko:,(ie) "i will have to feel it first before i do anything",,,do we ,after it's too late, still help,,i guess it's the old story of the grasshopper and the ant,,,do the ant's still help?. Even after ALL the pre warning? (links to websites, articles, etc.) As Christians we know what we are asked to do. As an aside, they take all their extra and head to the casino. was that bad of us for telling you that?:dirol: just asking!!


Did Noah warn anyone?
Or did Noah just do what God asked of him?
When someone builds an Ark of that size, in the middle of the desert, you would think someone would ask questions?

When Jesus told the adultress "go and sin no more", He was direct and to the point. He didn't follow her around making sure she didn't sin. He didn't give her a 12 step program booklet on how not to sin. He told her, and that was that.

If your friends are Believers, then maybe do a study of the story of Joseph. While in Egypt there was 7 year of fat, and 7 years of lean.
Maybe if you explain it to them from a Biblical account, they will be more inclined to hear.
OR
They would rather "eat drink and be merry' to which you cannot control, nor are you responsible for their ignorance.

[grumble]

I may be all wet (now, THAT would be a surprise!), but IMO when things start to get tight, there will be "anti-hoarding" laws. Those who make it known that they have supplies of food will be raided by whatever "authorities" may be in power. All for the common good, of course (pardon the sarcasm).

Not letting folks in your circle of acquaintances know too much about what your preps are might be the best prep you can do.

[God's Country]

God helps those that help themselves.
I've never found this to be untrue.

[krapgame]

I may be all wet (now, THAT would be a surprise!), but IMO when things start to get tight, there will be "anti-hoarding" laws. Those who make it known that they have supplies of food will be raided by whatever "authorities" may be in power. All for the common good, of course (pardon the sarcasm).

Not letting folks in your circle of acquaintances know too much about what your preps are might be the best prep you can do.

Give that man 64 silver dollars!

Call me paranoid, but with our kids in public school, I'm not even comfortable with them knowing what we may or may not have accumulated. In their case, simply because they don't know how the world truly works yet. I envision a scenario where teachers start a discussion where that kind of information is shared by students and notes made by the teacher to be passed along to the appropriate authorities. Similar such things have happened before.

That's my concern with my own kids. How much more concerned should one be with non family members? If one is given to producing, storing and consuming one's own stores, I think it best to do so quietly, and grumble about the ever increasing prices downtown right along with everyone else. Maybe even make a point of regularly visiting the local grocery just to give the appearance of depending on the system. Being too removed from society can be as much a red flag as having a sign at the end of the driveway saying you've got 2 years supply of food and enough "toys" to equip a 3rd world army (neither of which I have, BTW).

I started to quit there, and probably should have, but I'm going to add the following; Do your preps include buying in bulk from a big box retailer with a discount card or membership card? Or with a credit card? Do you post details about what you're doing anywhere on the Internet? If you answered yes to any of these, you've left a trail straight to your house. That's as much a concern as having a few close friends know details. Yes, I'm paranoid, but being in the business I am gives me a basis for it. Be smart.

Sorry for the thread drift. I'm bad about that.:wink:

[Aamylf]

It's not thread drift to me. I want to be able to choose who I help, not have my preps taken from me to help who the government wants helped (i.e. those who won't help themselves.) It's like charitable giving versus theft of money by taxation and giving it to people I would never help via Earned Income Credit.

We have told only a couple of people about our preps and have never let on how much food or ammo or whatever we actually have. It ain't paranoia if it actually might happen. I agree with the person who wrote on another thread to be careful how you dispose of trash, etc. so people won't know.

I pay cash now for at the big box places, but you can't do that on line.

[cuppajoe]

I have warned the deaf mute family members and friends for years...I quit talking about it over 2 years ago, as they think I am chicken-little. Now, I mind my own business, pay with cash, keep a tight inner circle and be-bop along gathering, preparing, planning and staging. Only a chosen few people actually know where we are to migrate and I havent told any one at all about many many things. I figure there will be family moochs and sponges but, honestly when SHTF they will be SOL and that will be TFB.

We as a family have come along way in 4 years and have a long way to go. I am thankful to the Lord I woke up when I did.

[AzLoneRider]

My wife and I talk with family and friends about homesteading, preparedness and the state of the nation and it's finances. We make no secret of what and why we do what we do. We encourage others do prepare in whatever way they see fit. If they don't will we help them? It depends on a lot of things not the least of which is what the Holy Spirit is leading me to do at that particular time. Do I want to help all those we are warning now? Sure. Will we? At this point I can't say.

[Cimmaron]

folks,,we have been wrestling with a quandry,,we have dear friends that we talk to about what we face as a country, a people,,they see it:lazy2:, but just laugh it off:girl_wacko:,(ie) "i will have to feel it first before i do anything",,,do we ,after it's too late, still help,,i guess it's the old story of the grasshopper and the ant,,,do the ant's still help?. Even after ALL the pre warning? (links to websites, articles, etc.) As Christians we know what we are asked to do. As an aside, they take all their extra and head to the casino. was that bad of us for telling you that?:dirol: just asking!!


Okie, I have had this problem with many friends and family. A few (of both) have started to plan/prep, a few are thinking about it, and a few are not interested.
I have spoken of things like the price of gas or some grocery going up, or mention some news article on TV that says things are getting worse. Or at times I have mentioned Internet articles/blogs ...with a mixed reaction of all these.
The one thing that has gotten more traction is, me doing some of the things I'm talking to people about. We have always gardened and eat heavily out of it, but I have put in a wheat patch and making home made bread and canning and stocking up on fire wood etc. You and me live in tornado and ice storm country so the folks around here ( well the more sensible ones) know to put some away for when things aren't normal and times are tough. I just take it to the next level with them, I don't tell them everything all at once, I sort of "feel them out" on how much to share. Like other folks have mentioned in this thread I believe it's not good to divulge too much, too fast, to, too many (I hope that made sense :p).

Anyways, those that know me and know what I've showed them I'm doing know it's not just more blather but there is sometimes a good reason for the preparing.
Just my 2 cents. Your mileage may vary.


Oh by the way, your screen name is the same as a bait/tackle shop that is moving out of our parts. Thought I'd let you know.

[okiedokie]

thank you all for the great stuff,,CapeCMom; your on target, they are smart folks, but say it just won't get that bad here(USA):secret:, docsoos; wife and i have discussed that very sitution, helping someone and they never leave or always show up and worst with others. NCLee; we see eye to eye on this one,,great post, thanks.,,,grumble; agreed ,, krapgame; we are taking the very same precautions,great advice for everyone,,,cuppajoe; you have hit the nail on the head, and that is were we find ourselves.,,,and for the rest of the great respones,,we do keep it to ourselves about the preps,,these folks know about most of the canning we have done and still doing (blackeyed peas), we come to the fact that we just have to move along with it and stop ringing the bell, and let the chips fall where the may,,thanks again to all :)

[okiedokie]

Okie, I have had this problem with many friends and family. A few (of both) have started to plan/prep, a few are thinking about it, and a few are not interested.
I have spoken of things like the price of gas or some grocery going up, or mention some news article on TV that says things are getting worse. Or at times I have mentioned Internet articles/blogs ...with a mixed reaction of all these.
The one thing that has gotten more traction is, me doing some of the things I'm talking to people about. We have always gardened and eat heavily out of it, but I have put in a wheat patch and making home made bread and canning and stocking up on fire wood etc. You and me live in tornado and ice storm country so the folks around here ( well the more sensible ones) know to put some away for when things aren't normal and times are tough. I just take it to the next level with them, I don't tell them everything all at once, I sort of "feel them out" on how much to share. Like other folks have mentioned in this thread I believe it's not good to divulge too much, too fast, to, too many (I hope that made sense :p).

Anyways, those that know me and know what I've showed them I'm doing know it's not just more blather but there is sometimes a good reason for the preparing.
Just my 2 cents. Your mileage may vary.


Oh by the way, your screen name is the same as a bait/tackle shop that is moving out of our parts. Thought I'd let you know.
Cimmaron,great post, we have taken the same path on trying to help wake folks up,the last ice storm has helped some to start thinking out of the box,it did for us as well. our screen name we just pulled out of thin air,, sorry to hear your losing your bait shop, hope it's not the only one!

[patience]

A few short years ago, hurricane Ike came through southern Indiana and took out the electric power for anywhere from a couple days to 2 weeks, depending on where you were. I had a generator and a couple 2,000 watt inverters meant for my solar system, not yet installed. We used the generator and offered to let some neighbors use it a couple times a day to keep their freezers cold. One guy took us up on that and had it for a day before his power came back on and ours did too.

We were 48 yours into this, so I took the generator and both inverters to my wife's relatives to use. That got 3 families going and kept them from losing freezers full of food. They simply ran a small car to power the inverters, clipped to the battery. Not cheap to do, but cheaper than losing a freezer full of meat. We advised them all to provide some such thing for themselves. None did.

Some months later, we had an ice storm that took down power in a large area for several days. Family had not made any effort to acquire means for themselves. So, I assumed that if they thought it was important, and having been warned once, they would have a generator if they thought they needed one. Consequently, my generator has stayed home ever since, and will continue to do so. That goes for the rest of whatever preps I have, too.

I lived with similiar situations in industry for about 30 years in engineering, warning managers of potential problems. Very few times did they heed warnings. Their attitude typically was, so what if the roof has some bad spots, it ain't raining..... Right.

Later, when the inevitable troubles came up, and engineers were told to work overtime to bail out the aforeseen problems, we pointed to a sign over the door to the department: "Sorry, but a lack of planning on your part does not create an emergency on my part."

[NCLee]

"Sorry, but a lack of planning on your part does not create an emergency on my part."

Patience, that may become my motto. Especially since it fits so well with God's Country's

God helps those that help themselves.

Here in NC we've had our share of problems with hurricanes and ice storms. Even had 22" of snow a few years ago and 6" of sleet (yes, sleet, not snow) another time. Here, even 3-4" inches of snow can be a big headache, as a state, we don't have the resources to deal with it like states up north.

We've had whole industries disappear from our area. Some of the factories have been bulldozed and carted off as scrap.

Couple of years ago we were in drought conditions to the extent that well's went dry, crops/gardens failed, and towns were pumping heavily contaminated water from the bottom of resevoirs.

Yet, it seems that the majority of the people around here haven't learned anything from these natural and economic disasters. There's the same mad dash to clean out the stores every time another storm is in the forecast. TV folks keep them updated on the progress of that type of weather. But, from what I understand, there's very little warning on TV for the economic storm clouds gathering.

Right now the local news is on TV. Most of the commercials are luring people to buy more STUFF... new cars, just aired. "News" is about royal weddings, Dancing with the Stars, auto accidents, crime stories, SPORTS, etc. There's no explaination of what it means with what the Fed is doing with our national debt, for example.

So folks will get a lot of "fluff" this morning before heading off to work. They know that last night's thunderstorms did some damage in the area. So far, there's been no mention of Ireland and the hit that was taken on the stock market yesterday.

Don't know how that fits into this conversation, but it hit a nerve this morning, while thinking about people who aren't "planning" and "helping" themselves.

Lee

PS... Time to switch the TV to Fox News.

[vegard]

I know what you are saying NCLee. I live in northern New England. When a big snow storm or what we call a Nor'easter, there is a mad dash to the supermarket. The business that I have gets me into many homes. I find it interesting that the older generations are doing it also. I ask them why? You have lived through much worse then this. I don't usually get a answer .

The news up here is the same. There is nothing about what is really going in the country. I have a feeling that there will be some very upset and scared people when they can't buy what they want and when they want it.

I am blessed with the fact that almost all of my family is on the board. My dad mentioned to me that he wants to start setting some preps aside.

[cuppajoe]

NCLee you are so right on your points. The fluff is sickening, buy more of our Chinese crap, fleece the country dry. These urban areas will be so hard hit and the crime rates will soar quickly. When or if it gets as bad as a Katrina like situation where people are looting the Walmarts nationwide for plasma screen TV's instead of food, then I have to ask where is those peoples priorities?

I do have a generator and some other supplies where I am at now in this urban area, and a half cord of wood we have had for several years. I do not even have a fireplace. I have it for cooking over the fire outside and to at sit around a fire to stay warm for at least a few hours a day. People look at me like I have lobsters hanging out of my ears....

[patience]

NCLee said:
"So far, there's been no mention of Ireland and the hit that was taken on the stock market yesterday.

Don't know how that fits into this conversation, but it hit a nerve this morning, while thinking about people who aren't "planning" and "helping" themselves."

Well, it does fit. Ireland is broke, the European central bank will probably bail them out which will make the Euro go down (already is on anticipation), then the US will follow suit, bailing out California, Illinois, etc. The Dow is down for lack of support by the Fed, apparently, since only their money seems to have been propping it up, and allowing for inflation over the past many years, the Dow is very low anyway.

All of it mens we are in deep trouble, but the media appears to be bought and paid for by TPTB, so nary a hint of trouble shows on TV. We try to separate these topics to have some order on this forum, but it is all part of the same cloth, and seems obviously connected even if one is unfamiliar with finance.

The general public is clueless about it all: Ignorance and apathy = "I don't know and I don't WANT to know. Whereby we come full circle back to the topic, that there will be many without preparations. Like many here, if I understand them correctly, I want to help others if I can. But it is futile to throw hard earned resources down a black hole of want, and deprive you and yours of what the need. At least, that's how I see it, bleeding heart liberals notwithstanding. I remain firmly convinced that the best we can do is to try to educate where it is well received, and let the rest go their own way wherever it may lead.

[okiedokie]

The general public is clueless about it all: Ignorance and apathy = "I don't know and I don't WANT to know. Whereby we come full circle back to the topic, that there will be many without preparations. Like many here, if I understand them correctly, I want to help others if I can. But it is futile to throw hard earned resources down a black hole of want, and deprive you and yours of what the need. At least, that's how I see it, bleeding heart liberals notwithstanding. I remain firmly convinced that the best we can do is to try to educate where it is well received, and let the rest go their own way wherever it may lead.[/QUOTE]
right on right on,,,gosh you guys and gals are good,,,,i love this site:D

[West_TX_Desert_Rat]

I have had discussions with lots of folks who are all over the spectrum on this subject. I've found a good aproach for dealing with those who see no value in preparing for anything because they feel nothing will ever happen. 911 should show this is not the case.

Since I worked for many years in IT, I have lots of friends who also work in this field. It isn't hard to convince them that redunancy is the key to success. If an enemy were going to attack, we already know the rules of war. Take out power, communications and disrupt food supply chains.

If we all can produce our own food and power, it makes it difficult to accomplish this. Wind/solar power is all fine and dandy but if it connects to the grid, take out the grid and it's mission accomplished. Just like the internet, it's power doesn't come from one massive computer, it is a network of many. Ever hear of the entire Net going down? When many are producing their own food, taking out a factory does little to food supplies. Amateur radio could be a solution to communcation issues in times of distress of all kinds.

IMO, it is our duty as citizens to make this happen. If a soldier is willing to lay his life on the line, it is our duty as citizens to back them up by being ready and willing to take up a fight no matter where it's at. One day it may be in our backyard. I'd like the world to know there is indeed a rifle behind every blade of grass.

I have a long row to hoe to get to this place I speak of but then, that's why I'm here.

[Aamylf]

If you watch the 'regular' new media (CNN, NBC, ABC, CBS & MSNBC) you will learn: the recession is over, unemployment is down, the economy is on the road to recovery, people are saving TOO MUCH and need to start spending again -- preferably on things for Christmas , the conservatives won only because Obama didn't explain his plan well enough...and conservatives are evil, Christian, white, racist, paranoid, hatemongers.

If/When things disappear from the shelves, there will be rioting in the streets -- and I'm not sure that isn't the plan -- and I fear marshall law being declared.

I am a long way from self-sufficient living as I do in a regular house on a regular double lot, and sometimes when I read Patience's post I am depressed at where I am, BUT that said, I am still so far ahead of the other 540 people I work with I can't even imagine.

If we had a natural disaster, I'd be good on food for a long time; good with some lights (kerosene) for probably two months or more; good with water for probably one month, but have a plan B for 6 months; and good to cook outside for probably a month -- which I plan to rectify in the next month.

Just one comment about God helps those who help themselves (I believe that). I think it was Jesus who was asked if we were our brother's keeper and I believe he said yes.

[Wyobuckaroo]

To me....... The old saying "You can lead a horse to water, but......" You know the rest, would apply...........

These are adults, you can offer advice, but not insist or expect results, to your level of comfort. They will decide what there level of acceptance of this info is, and deal with it and the consequences on there own.

Again, to me, attitudes have to change as situations do. What I would need to do 5 minutes ago may not be what I need to do now, for me and my family's best interest. Regardless of who else I would have to deal with, then or now. Again, how things can change in 5 minutes dictates whether you extend a helping hand, or a kick in the a$$.

I feel I must be as ready to extend one as quickly as the other. With NO hesitation or regrets for doing what is best for me and mine. I'm not mean, but trying to be sensible.

KnowwhatImean
Good luck
Wyo

[TEX]

My approach is not to talk about "prepardness" per say but about home economics. That is easier for many people to swallow and get on board with in these economic times. Stocking your pantry with home canned goods and sale items, etc. That approach usually at least gets people started and gets them started without scaring them.

Also if the people I am talking to are "organic" it's easy to get them going towards their own garden or chickens and small meat animals - after all it's the healthy, in, chic thing to be doing now:wink: It's stylish to say I grow my own organic heirloom veggies and have free range eggs and chickens. Makes them part of the "in crowd"

[BonnyLake]

Just one comment about God helps those who help themselves (I believe that). I think it was Jesus who was asked if we were our brother's keeper and I believe he said yes.

This isn't the bible board (we could probably take this conversation there if anyone is interested) - but for clarity only - it was cain who asked if he was his brothers keeper after killing abel and God did not answer him, instead he posed another question.

[leera]

I used to worry about my parents,but my Mom showed me last time around that she is creative enough to handle most situations....they had no running water,she had bottled water the ready for drinking,cooking,etc.....but didn't want to waste that to flush the toilet or to bath.....so she strung up some plastic and caught rainwater,enough to flush with and bath with....

They had power,but no water,as the storm had taken out the well pump....so thye were without running water for over a week,and unless they told you,you never would have known anything was different.

I don't talk about what I have as far as supplies,but if someone asks me about building up a pantry or how to can some things,I will gladly teach them.

A couple years ago,my Brother wanted someone to can peaches for him,so,rather than do it for him,I gifted him my extra canner and a current copy of the Ball Blue Book....don't know if he ever used it or not,but he hasn't asked me to can anything for him again.

[midmo]

...
I am a long way from self-sufficient living as I do in a regular house on a regular double lot, and sometimes when I read Patience's post I am depressed at where I am, BUT that said, I am still so far ahead of the other 540 people I work with I can't even imagine.
...


IMHO, one of the more valuable "preps" any of us can have is the survivor spirit; the willingness and self-discipline to buckle down and do what has to be done to keep on going. Even without a huge stockpile of food and emergency supplies, those who are willing to work hard to learn what it takes to keep yourself and your loved ones alive in a difficult situation at least stand a chance of surviving. That's in contrast to the almost ridiculously dependent and helpless society that we've been moving towards for years now. That's what's depressing to me... every show I watch with hurricane or other disaster victims sitting there waiting to be rescued, or news clips of the midnight rush on grocery stores when the food stamp cards are recharged, just makes me shake my head in despair and frustration.

Socialism isn't about fairly distributing resources. It's about creating total inter-dependence until no one individual has the strength to stand alone.

[CountryGuy]

I have to think that if the ant opens the door, the locust will swarm and destroy them.

Besides watching how you handle trash after such an incident, think about where you build your stores andow you store. I must be secure and/ or defensible. Also something I thought about a while back is make sure you have some large extinguishers just inside your stores. What happens if your converted porch that now houses your 2 yrs of food gets hit with lightning and is on fire or gets leveled with a tornado? This is also where I think its good to have several caches. If there is something destructive occur or it gets looted or confiscated better chances of something remaining.

On the buying things on the internet and trying to maintain anonymity I think you can now get prepaid debit/ credit cards similar to prepay phones or though it takes longer go with a money order. An option for hiding the paper trail when it ships might be to have it shipped to your work. See if your boss is OK with you receiving something at work. Can give him a BS story about not being able to be delivered to a home address or to a rural or PO box. Also possibly one of those mailbox etc type places not sure if they have to have your name on the account or not.

I agree less people in general who know about what you do, don't or might have the better off you will be. On the flip side if you make an attempt and people don't listen but some do, focus on the do'ers. Help them to learn more, or find out what they know. start building your network and an action or contingency plan. Then when something does happen you'll be able to react together on some levels.

Also as someone mentioned above, if things do go KaaPlooey even though you can sit home snug as a bug, you must go out and take part with the grasshoppers to keep their suspicions down. Also you need to be out there to recon, hear news, rumors and things like if marshal law has been implemented and what that means. Think about it, if 3 months into a situation the grasshoppers you were always pleading to see you clean shaven, well fed wearing clean clothes and they look like a starving homeless person it's going to be a bad situation. They gonna be like that's right... Tom and Mary were always talking about getting prepared. let me go hit them up. And just cause you turn them away, don't expect they'll leave

Oh and that slogan, it was a little different in the service

"Pis# poor planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on mine"

[okiedokie]

amen,midmo,,,fear for your self becoming a brick, instead of being a stone, we must think for ourselves,and follow through, whatever else happens regardless, good or bad, we made the call. God Bless for self determination. Good luck with your dilemma, we all go through them. May God bless you and yours.

[krapgame]

I have to think that if the ant opens the door, the locust will swarm and destroy them.

Besides watching how you handle trash after such an incident, think about where you build your stores andow you store. I must be secure and/ or defensible. Also something I thought about a while back is make sure you have some large extinguishers just inside your stores. What happens if your converted porch that now houses your 2 yrs of food gets hit with lightning and is on fire or gets leveled with a tornado? This is also where I think its good to have several caches. If there is something destructive occur or it gets looted or confiscated better chances of something remaining.

On the buying things on the internet and trying to maintain anonymity I think you can now get prepaid debit/ credit cards similar to prepay phones or though it takes longer go with a money order. An option for hiding the paper trail when it ships might be to have it shipped to your work. See if your boss is OK with you receiving something at work. Can give him a BS story about not being able to be delivered to a home address or to a rural or PO box. Also possibly one of those mailbox etc type places not sure if they have to have your name on the account or not.

I agree less people in general who know about what you do, don't or might have the better off you will be. On the flip side if you make an attempt and people don't listen but some do, focus on the do'ers. Help them to learn more, or find out what they know. start building your network and an action or contingency plan. Then when something does happen you'll be able to react together on some levels.

Also as someone mentioned above, if this do go kaa plooey even though your home snug as a bug, go out and take part with the grasshoippers to keep their suspicions down. if 3 months into a situation they see you clean shaven, well fed wearing clean clothes and they look like a starving homeless person it's going to be a bad situation.

Oh and that slogan, it was a little differnt in the service

"Pis# poor planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on mine"

There was a Native American brave sitting on a mountain top in Nevada one day sending smoke signals. Suddenly, he saw a mushroom could across the way from a nuclear test. As he looked on the cloud, he nodded and said "Uggh. Wish I'd said that."

Spot-on post!

[BonnyLake]

To me....... The old saying "You can lead a horse to water, but......" You know the rest, would apply...........

These are adults, you can offer advice, but not insist or expect results, to your level of comfort. They will decide what there level of acceptance of this info is, and deal with it and the consequences on there own.

Again, to me, attitudes have to change as situations do. What I would need to do 5 minutes ago may not be what I need to do now, for me and my family's best interest. Regardless of who else I would have to deal with, then or now. Again, how things can change in 5 minutes dictates whether you extend a helping hand, or a kick in the a$$.

I feel I must be as ready to extend one as quickly as the other. With NO hesitation or regrets for doing what is best for me and mine. I'm not mean, but trying to be sensible.

KnowwhatImean
Good luck
Wyo

Thank you - well said.
Since I started being more prepared, 13 years or so, I can't tell you how many times I have heard people say that they will go to the Churches for help if it all falls apart, because their Christian friends "have" to help them. Not true! We are not charged with taking care of the world...

People who will not help themselves - referred to as sluggards - and those who sleep - are told to learn from the ants who take care of themselves with nobody (higher up) having to monitor their progress. Then the sluggards are warned - "therefore shall his calamity come suddenly; suddenly shall he be broken without remedy." That means to me that they were warned and directed where to go for the information, then when TSHTF there is no help for them. Basically... too bad... you had the same opportunities as everyone else did.

Also mentioned - charitable giving (our free choices) - the good samaritan patched up the victim but then took him to a place to be taken care of and he paid for it, by his own choice. He didn't actually do too much himself. He left it to the people who do that sort of work.

People who are actually helpless and cannot do for themselves are the ones who are helped and who need our help. The rest of us are given the direction and then set upon our way to make it happen or not.

After all of these years, and all of the excuses I have heard for why these seemingly "normal healthy intelligent" people won't learn to take care of themselves, or won't bother to think about taking care of their own families - it makes the decision of who to help with what we'll have a lot easier, but still a very difficult thing to have to think about.

[NCLee]

amen,midmo,,,fear for your self becoming a brick, instead of being a stone, we must think for ourselves,and follow through, whatever else happens regardless, good or bad, we made the call. God Bless for self determination. Good luck with your dilemma, we all go through them. May God bless you and yours.

I learned about bricks and stones this week, too. It's sad that I'd heard/read that story from the Bible all my life, and never REALLY understood it until now.

CountryGuy, I agree with the others. You've made some excellent observations on many points. This, too, is sad, because of the decisions we may be forced to make. And, it doesn't have to be that way. But, I'm afraid that it will be that way. (sigh)

Lee

[rAcErRicK]

This is a great thread, and thanks to all who have contributed to it. Preparing to deal with the grasshoppers is just as important as the preparing for our families. The really sad part is that MANY of these grasshoppers will at some stage of hunger, and having to do without the bells and whistles that they are accustomed to having, will turn nasty. They will at some point decide that you are obligated to feed them, and eventually will plot to take it, and turn on you as ravenous wolves. Some will even attempt to turn you in to "authorities" for "having", because they have not. If there is anything I can contribute here it is that we MUST also prepare to deal with this factor. It WILL HAPPEN.

I have followed this for many years, and have lost friends over it, even lost family members, but so be it. That is THEIR choice. I see many others here who are experiencing the same thing. It is human nature. Not to gross anyone out here, but history has recorded humans resorting to canibalism to stay alive. A terrible thought I agree, and that is the extreme, but please do not make the mistake of not being also prepared to deal with them. God forbid it to get that bad, but we MUST be aware that it CAN happen.

Thanks again for the thread all.
rr

[Cimmaron]

Cimmaron,great post, we have taken the same path on trying to help wake folks up,the last ice storm has helped some to start thinking out of the box,it did for us as well. our screen name we just pulled out of thin air,, sorry to hear your losing your bait shop, hope it's not the only one!


Well they didn't really put it in the best of places. The nearest lake was 10 mi. away, which left ponds to fish at. They brought in tack and some hunting stuff but I guess it didn't help. Course, I don't really know why they left.

[S2man]

My manager is all about prepping, mentally. He knows all the dangers, can talk the talk, and watches Glenn Beck.

But he has done nothing physical to prep. Same old excuses... He especially would not have my pity if/when things go bad. He knew better.

[Southerngirl]

I have warned the deaf mute family members and friends for years...I quit talking about it over 2 years ago, as they think I am chicken-little. Now, I mind my own business, pay with cash, keep a tight inner circle and be-bop along gathering, preparing, planning and staging. Only a chosen few people actually know where we are to migrate and I havent told any one at all about many many things. I figure there will be family moochs and sponges but, honestly when SHTF they will be SOL and that will be TFB.

We as a family have come along way in 4 years and have a long way to go. I am thankful to the Lord I woke up when I did.

I have to agree with you, I'm also thankful I woke up and made changes to take care of "our family" which means the people living in our house which is myself, DH, and 3 young children. I've tried to encourage and help family in the past and it ended up burning us in the end, to the point where we didn't have the means to provide for "our family".
I no longer try to encourage or enlighten family as I've tried before and I'm done "talking".
My DH and I are completely happy with staying to ourselves, within a VERY small circle of other honest "planners" and pay with cash and don't talk about what we have or plan on doing.