NSSF WARNS OF IMPENDING BATFE REGULATION CHANGE

[gunsmoke]

This is a special notice to warn you of impending new gun regulation. The ATF has proposed to require gun dealers to provide directly to the ATF the names, addresses, and serial numbers for every purchase of two or more semi auto, mag fed rifles within a five day period!! They are trying to force this in by January 5th, without any approval from Congress, calling it a needed "emergency" regulation. This is backdoor registration of guns and gunowners.

Here is a quote from the notice by the NSSF (National Shooting Sports Foundation) regarding this burdensome and illegal move:

"The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) is moving to require federally licensed firearms retailers to report multiple sales of modern sporting rifles beginning January 5, 2011. Specifically, the ATF requirement calls for firearms retailers to report multiple sales, or other dispositions, of two or more .22 caliber or larger semi-automatic rifles that are capable of accepting a detachable magazine and are purchased by the same individual within five consecutive business days."

We are encouraging everyone to contact the relevant officials to protest this move. The office that approves regulation changes like this that bypass Congress is the Office of Information and Regulation affairs of the DOJ and they can be reached at 202-395-6466. You can call your Senator and Representative at the US Capitol switchboard at 202-224-3121.

The NSSF offers the following points to make when calling

1."Multiple sales reporting of long guns will actually make it more difficult for licensed retailers to help law enforcement as traffickers modify their illegal schemes to circumvent the reporting requirement. Traffickers will go further underground, hiring more people to buy their firearms. This will make it much harder for retailers to identify and report suspicious behavior to law enforcement."

2."Long guns are rarely used in crime (Bureau of Justice Statistics)."

3."Imposing multiple sales-reporting requirements for long guns would further add to the already extensive paperwork and record-keeping requirements burdening America’s retailers – where a single mistake could cost them their license and even land them in jail."

4."Last year, ATF inspected 2,000 retailers in border states and only two licenses were revoked (0.1%). These revocations were for reasons unknown and could have had nothing to do with illicit trafficking of guns; furthermore, no dealers were charged with any criminal wrongdoing."

5."According to ATF, the average age of a firearm recovered in the United States is 11 years old. In Mexico it’s more than 14 years old. This demonstrates that criminals are not using new guns bought from retailers in the states."

6."Congress, when it enacted multiple sales reporting for handguns, could have required multiple sales of long guns – it specifically chose not to."

Read the full notice by the NSSF here:
http://www.nssfblog.com/atf-to-require-multiple-sales-reports-for-long-guns/

Read the full ATF document proposing this illegal move here: (PDF)
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/documents/atf.pdf




Link for contact info if you want to add it to your communications

http://www.contactingthecongress.org/

[velojym]

But.... some of them LOOK evil!!!!

[cuppajoe]

damn that sucks....we aint got a chance anymore....

[gunsmoke]

It is the trademark of what our once proud Republic has become, an engine for generating solutions to problems that simply don't exist except in a "progressive" mind.

[mozarkian]

And if I recall, the illegals, druglords etc on the border are mostly armed with these type guns, soooo, I guess to be politically correct we need to make sure the enemy has better weaponry than us.... just to make it fair or to level the field maybe and make reparations for the Mexican American War or something... When and how can we get people in Congress who truly believe in freedom and less government, not more?

[grumble]

Let me preface my comment by saying that I agree with the 2nd amendment as it is written, "the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

That said, let's look at what this new BATFE reg does. According to the NRA bulletin on this, it only applies to licensed gun dealers doing business near the Mexican border. It applies to semi-auto guns of 22 caliber or more, meaning .223 or 7.62mm, the calibers being commonly used in the drug violence in Mexico.

As always, the US is being blamed for supplying the drug cartels with small arms since of the TRACEABLE guns captured there, most were traced to the US. This ignores that many of the UNtraceable guns could have come from anywhere, and that something like 80% of the captured guns were, in fact, untraceable. But, as usual, the second half of the story is ignored and only the guns traced to the US are included in news reports.

So, with that background, the O Administration and the BATFE were under some pressure to "do something." And that's what this semi-auto rule is all about.

Don't ask me to justify it or to try to defend it. I can't. I'm just writing this to try to put some context to the new rule.

[gunsmoke]

Let me preface my comment by saying that I agree with the 2nd amendment as it is written, "the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

That said, let's look at what this new BATFE reg does. According to the NRA bulletin on this, it only applies to licensed gun dealers doing business near the Mexican border. It applies to semi-auto guns of 22 caliber or more, meaning .223 or 7.62mm, the calibers being commonly used in the drug violence in Mexico.

As always, the US is being blamed for supplying the drug cartels with small arms since of the TRACEABLE guns captured there, most were traced to the US. This ignores that many of the UNtraceable guns could have come from anywhere, and that something like 80% of the captured guns were, in fact, untraceable. But, as usual, the second half of the story is ignored and only the guns traced to the US are included in news reports.

So, with that background, the O Administration and the BATFE were under some pressure to "do something." And that's what this semi-auto rule is all about.

Don't ask me to justify it or to try to defend it. I can't. I'm just writing this to try to put some context to the new rule.


With all due respect your perspective is that of BHO and ERIC HOLDER.

Have you read the text of the regulation? Does Louisiana I live share a border with Mexico?m Why did every FFL holder I know receive notice? There is in fact NO geographic restriction whatsoever it appliesm to each and every sale/transfer by any FFL dealer anywhere in the US.

Also It does NOT only apply to .223 or 7.62 x 51mm chambered firearms it applies to ANY detachable magazine fed semi-automatic rifle, its says .22 cal or larger, that includes .22 Rimfire Can you say Marlin 792?

Almost everything you said is nothing more that apologetic propaganda and is patantly false. Any one who is capable of reading English canuse the links provided in the original quote from NSSF to a .pdf of the proposed regulation which takes effect on 5 January 2011.

[gunsmoke]

Quoting the proposed regulation VERBATIM:

“The purpose of the proposed regulation is to require Federal Firearms Licsensees to report multiple sales or other distributions whenever the licsnsee sells or otherwise disposes of two or more rifles within any five consecutive business days with the following characteristics (a) Semi-Automatic (b) a caliber greater than .22, and (c) ability to accept a detachable magazine.”

Please show me in the text of the proposed regulation the geographic restrictions you allege '...it only applies to licensed gun dealers doing business near the Mexican border.' appears?

Please show me in the text of the proposed regulation where the caliber is restricted as you claim to '...meaning .223 or 7.62mm, the calibers being commonly used in the drug violence in Mexico....'

None of the things you claim appear anywhere in the regulation. In fact it applies to ALL FFL holders ANYWHERE in the U S INCLUDING 03 COLLECTORS it is not even restricted to liscensed DEALERS.

Any Rifle that is semi-automatic with a bore greater than .220 amd accepts a detachable magazine is included in the new regulation there is NO REFERENCE WHATSOEVER TO .223 OR 7.62MM ANYWHERE in the proposed regulation.

Nothing but OBAMA/HOLDER - PROMOTING PROPAGANDA!

[grumble]

STUFF IT.

Jerks like you can go ahead and be as hyperbolic as you choose.

[Michael32170]

Emergencies and special cases that are limited in scope is how it always starts. Then the regulation will change with time until everyone is monitored.

[grumble]

You're absolutely right, Michael. It's called "incrementalism," nibbling just a little bit at a time until the frog is boiled.

Hmm. I guess that was bit of mixed metaphor, huh? <GGG>

[cinok]

I have heard that there is a problem with some shops in some states that sell to people who then take the guns to states like NJ/NY and sell them on the street. Most of these guns don't wind up in the hands of those that are interested in their 2nd adm rights but rather use them to separate people from their hard earned money. I believe that they have tried to target some of these shops but when they did that these shops said they were being targeted and their rights were being infringed.

Laws like this IMO are the being passed due to lack of both common sense and lack of willingness for different sides to cooperate.

[MissouriFree]

here is some of thier handy work.


http://www.atfabuse.com/enter.html


Henry Bowman had it right....

[Hallofo]

@ MissouriFree: The site just burns me up. Well, not the site per say, but the crap our Government "betters" gets away with.

I agree that this kind of legislation is death by degrees - it would be too difficult to outright ban guns, so they are taken away bit by bit. For the Children, of course. I mean, who really needs one of those Evil Black Rifles anyway? (Please note: Sarcasm detected)

Today it's semi-auto "machine-gun" rifles. Tommorow bolt-action "armor piercing cop killer sniper death guns" (read: .308 or larger) rifles.

[gunsmoke]

STUFF IT.

Jerks like you can go ahead and be as hyperbolic as you choose.

It is what it is, you are a propogamfist for the "progressives" hide behind your supposed reasonableness your Che Guevera T-Shirt is showing you LIED Obama and Holders lies and you got caught doing it, act like a man! Not a 3 year old who can't back up what he said!

[gunsmoke]

here is some of thier handy work.


http://www.atfabuse.com/enter.html


Henry Bowman had it right....

A few years ago about five miles from my house ATF raided the business place of a well-known CLASS 01 & 07 FFL & SOT. A man who was engaged in the business of selling fully automatic weapons to many Federal State & Local Law Enforcement agencies. Over 700 NFA firearms all on the registry under ATF Form 3s (Legally in his posession, and approved by ATF as proven by his posession of an ATF Form 3 for each of the guns.) He was never arrested, never charged or indicted for ANY offense and during the fifth year of fighting in Court to obtain return of his illegally seized property he died suddenly of a "heart attack."

Upon his death his body was seized by the ATF and the parts of him were held for 28 days before the remains were surrendered to his family for burial.

NAZIS!

and so is anyone who apologizes for and supports their illegal activities!

[MissouriFree]

Doesn't surprise me at all.... the thing(s) the BATFE is best at doing is " manufacutring evidence" and then "covering thier own A**" with more lies when caught.

[Michael32170]

And if I recall, the illegals, druglords etc on the border are mostly armed with these type guns, soooo, I guess to be politically correct we need to make sure the enemy has better weaponry than us.... just to make it fair or to level the field maybe and make reparations for the Mexican American War or something... When and how can we get people in Congress who truly believe in freedom and less government, not more?

They attempted to make that argument a couple of years ago, and it turned out to be incorrect. They are armed with fully automatic weapons, not semi-auto weapons.

[tacmotusn]

Lifetime NRA member here. I am totally against this illegally proposed and mandated gun law. That said, Why give them the opportunity to put your name on another list. Buy one today, and wait 5 plus days before you buy another. Thus you avoid the stupid law and the list of names sent to the BATF.

[docsoos]

They attempted to make that argument a couple of years ago, and it turned out to be incorrect. They are armed with fully automatic weapons, not semi-auto weapons.

+1000.

How many dealers close to the border are Class III's, and how many of their inventory weapons sold to individuals here in the U.S have turned up in crimes in Meh-hee-ko?

I'd bet a weeks' pay that number would be less than ZERO. I'd also hazard a bet that almost ALL of the full-auto toys the cartels are using came from some third-world Central American cesspool, Russian Mafia types, or the Mexican Military itself. (Money Talks)

More media drivel, fanning the flames for Schumer-esque tactics and grandstanding. :mad:

DocSoos

[gunsmoke]

Almost two years ago ERIC HOLDER and his buddy/boss Obama started these lies about the Mexican drug gangs getting thierguns from borderm states US gun dealers. There was a story put out nthat twodrug gang people were caught on our side of the border with Barrett .50 cal semi-autos. It was pointed out that the Barrett is made by Americans, in Tennessee and then all of of sudden the story stopped dead. Everyone even MSNBC stopped talking about the two Barrett.50s.

DO YOU WONDER WHY?

Well it seems that the serials were traced and guess who had imported the Barretts into Mexico?

The brother of the THEN El Presidente Vincente Fox! That's right, the brother of the President of Mexico.

Guess who he imported them for?

Fuerzas Armadas de Mexico


Thats the Mexican Armed Forces including Army Air Force and Navy!

HUMMMMMMMMM drug lords in posession of Mexican Army weapons imported from the United States! How could that happen?

Isn't it true that the export of Rifles or Pistols or ammunition for them must be approved by the U. S State Department's Arms Control Agency?

Approval of such an export order requires an END USER CERTIFICATE which is an affidavit certified by the receiving Government who the end user of the weapons and ammunition is going to be.

It seems that the story got quashed by everyone when Hillary Clinton's State Department provided copies of the end user certificates for the two particular Barretts seized in the U S. Guess what american law firm represented El Presidente's brother and filed the end user certificates with State


ERIC HOLDER'S

And pray tell what did the ATF DO with the seized Barretts?

:meeting:

They returned them to the Mexican Armed Forces of course!

I wonder who has them now?

THAT is what LIARS like OBAMA and ERIC HOLDER do every day, and there are a whole bunch of fool/tools who are ready to spread their lies and repeat their lies and apologize for the LIARS.

[Pitdog]

(a) Semi-Automatic (b) a caliber greater than .22, and (c) ability to accept a detachable magazine.”



It amazes me the legislation and wording- look closely at 'B'

Doesn't say '.22LR' a 5.56 IS a .22, they don't care about 5.56/.223 guns obviously- only LARGER THAN .22? For a while in VA, they wanted a 3rd form of ID for ANY rifle with a capacity of MORE than 20 rounds. So the FN I bought way back then was NOT covered, it did NOT hold MORE than twenty rounds. They finally did circumvent that with 'ability to accept detachable magazines.'

It is another attempt- however there is already a countermeasure to this for law abiding folks despite being a pain- either wait 6 or 7 days, which they will see that is what people do, or make sure your wives and kids over 18 ALSO want rifles fitting that description, as well as a ride to and from the shop and a NO interest NO payback loan from you.
OH ALSO..... it MUST be a caliber LARGER than a .22! so unless you are buying a 6.8, 6.5, 0r something, then you are skippy!

[gunsmoke]

(a) Semi-Automatic (b) a caliber greater than .22, and (c) ability to accept a detachable magazine.”



It amazes me the legislation and wording- look closely at 'B'

Doesn't say '.22LR' a 5.56 IS a .22, they don't care about 5.56/.223 guns obviously- only LARGER THAN .22? For a while in VA, they wanted a 3rd form of ID for ANY rifle with a capacity of MORE than 20 rounds. So the FN I bought way back then was NOT covered, it did NOT hold MORE than twenty rounds. They finally did circumvent that with 'ability to accept detachable magazines.'

It is another attempt- however there is already a countermeasure to this for law abiding folks despite being a pain- either wait 6 or 7 days, which they will see that is what people do, or make sure your wives and kids over 18 ALSO want rifles fitting that description, as well as a ride to and from the shop and a NO interest NO payback loan from you.
OH ALSO..... it MUST be a caliber LARGER than a .22! so unless you are buying a 6.8, 6.5, 0r something, then you are skippy!

PIT YOU ARE OPTIMISTIC and I really do like your interpretation of the proposed regulation, however unless you have been recently appointed Director of the BATFE TECHNICAL SERVICES DIVISION, THEIR definiton differs from yours.

Since 1969 the ATF TECHNICAL SERVICES DIVISION has interpreted "CALIBER" strictly. CALIBER to them is an expression of projectile diameter in HUNDRETHS of an inch. So to them ".22 CALIBER" indicates a firearm that projects a bullet of at least .220 diameter.

As I am sure you are aware, the groove and therefore outside diameter of a .223 Rem or 5.56 x 45 mm is in fact .224 which by ATF interpretation would be "...larger than .22 caliber...."

I agree "BOVINE FECES!"

Go ahead and try them and see if they don't take administrative action and pull your FFL on the spot. I know a 30+ year FFL holder who had her FFL revoked for a single failure to record the date for the FOURTH TIME on a SINGLE 4473. Mind you the entire 4473 was properly executed and signed by the buyer and the backround check was properly performed and the dealer entered the confirmation on the rear of the 4473 and while she had recorded the time and date she placed the instant check call, there is a space for a time and date (which was 2 minutes following the time she placed the call) and she failed to enter the date in that last blank on the reverse of the 4473.

In all her years she did not have a single violation, citation or any negative comments ffrom ATF. In short she was treated as guilty and denied her FFL.

If You want to try them and argue with THEIR interpretation go ahead, I'm not.

UPDATE



As reported in the NSSF Blog on 17 December most media outlets simply repeated the BATFE Public Statement which varies from their publication in the FEDERAL REGISTER regarding geographic restrictions as an OBAMA propogandist attempted to do here.

In this quote from their Blog NSSF points out that the WASHINGTON POST (on that date 17 December) printed the LIE about the regulation only applying to FFL Dealers in border states when in fact there are NO such restrictions stated in the proposed regulation.

"Today’s Washington Post suggests that the reporting mandate would be limited to retailers along the Southwest border; however, the Federal Register Notice does not limit the geographic scope of the reporting requirement."

Many may wonder why the Obama administration and their apologists would go to such lengths? My answer to that is that Obama follows the the old saying "Don't confuse my good story with something as stupid and irrelevant as the facts!"

After all here is another story from the ASSOCIATED PRESS that illustrates the all-pervasive CORRUPTION inherent in the culture of Mexico and its drug industry. The Obama administration characteristically denies any responsibility for the violence to MEXICO itself yet chooses to blame AMERICANS and AMERICAN GUNS as the cause of the violence:

http://bit.ly/gwKs0c

As with the Barrets captured from Mexican druggies in the US, we see yet again the involvment of the Mexican Government, and the Mexican Military as a major SOURCE of the violence.

And the ACTIVE participation of the MEXICAN government and MEXICAN military in trying to place blame for everything, including planting of evidence, pn AMERICANS and AMERICAN GUNS.

[Pitdog]

I understand hundreths of an inch, thousandths etc,. I appreciate your upset and agree that it is indeed wrong and rediculous etc.
I don't currently have an ffl for them to take, so I'm not worried. I'm not too worried about it at all, some people might be, most people should be, but the way I look at it is the worse it gets the more it exposes them. I have what I want so they can do virtually as they please. It will get taken to court, and it will be exposed for the sham it is going to take money and a lawyer than can argue like me :)

[gunsmoke]

DURING the original posting of this I was repeatedly accused by OBAMA-LIARS of being alarmist, exaggerrating and "HYPERBOLIC"

Today the truth is revealed by none other than BY NONE OTHER THAN CBS NEWS!


http://blogs.ajc.com/kyle-wingfield/2011/12/08/report-emails-show-fast-and-furious-used-to-push-gun-control/

So much for the OBAMA-LIARS and APOLOGISTS 8 DECEMBER 2011 SHERYL ATKINSON CBS MORNING NEWS ~ All part of the OBAMA/HOLDER Fast & Furious plot to subvert the 2nd amendment, resulting in the deaths by shooting of two Federal LEOs by Mexican drug thugs that Obama and his AG holder and their friends liars and apologists in the public ARMED IN VIOLATION OF U S LAW


(None of these comments refer in anyway to the posts in this thread made by PITDOG)

[blackpowderbill]

The department of state I.E. Queen Hillary has approved the sales of 10's -of -thousands of arms . You use to be able to get the number of arms the DOS allowed to be sold from manufacture to country. Those numbers have been missing for 2 years now. Imagine that!

She didn't lie when she said the guns are from the U.S. She didn't exactly tell the whole story either. I see Schumer has been absent from his rants on this subject since the story broke. Now they have the gun show BS to parade around.

[gunsmoke]

The department of state I.E. Queen Hillary has approved the sales of 10's -of -thousands of arms . You use to be able to get the number of arms the DOS allowed to be sold from manufacture to country. Those numbers have been missing for 2 years now. Imagine that!

She didn't lie when she said the guns are from the U.S. She didn't exactly tell the whole story either. I see Schumer has been absent from his rants on this subject since the story broke. Now they have the gun show BS to parade around.

Yes sir you are VERY CORRECT. Mr. Holders gunrunning to Mexican Drug Thugs did not BEGIN with FAST & FURIOUS. Prior to becoming THE AG Mr. Holders Law Firm Represented Mexican Importers and prepared and filed ENDUSER CERTIFICATES with the ARMS CONTROL AGENCEY of the Dept of State certifying that Barrett .50 cal anti-material Rifles manufactured in TN and exported to Mexico were for the use of the Mexican Army the only entity in Mexico eligible to posess such rifles under Mexican law.

One of those rifles were captured abandoned in the hills of San Bernardino County CA after it had been used to shoot down a CA Hwy Patrol Jet Ranger II Helicopter on a drug interdiction mission and fire upon two more CA LEA helicopters and two CA Army National Guard Helicopters that responded to distress calls from the CHP Chopper.

BATFE RETURNED THE RIFLE TO THE MEXICAN GOVERNMENT SO IT COULD BE RETURNED TO ACTIVE USE!

Every single Rifle or Handgun that crossedm the Mexican Border during Fast & Furious without the authrity of an export licsense granted by the Arms ControlmAgency was in violation of U S Arms Control Act did so in violation of ratified U S Arms Control Treaties and was an act of espianage against the United States a far more seriou crime than the gun running itself.

And contemporaryn to doing these things the BATFE published these carefully worded regulations designed to shut down FFL Dealers AND COLLECTORS all over the U S operating within the law.

[grumble]

Terrible state of affairs, just turrible.

I can see you're really worked up about this GS. What are you going to do about it? What do you think others should do?

[Poonie]

Take the hype with a grain of salt.....I refuse to get worked up over something like this. It will never get off the ground.....This behavior is the same as back when the clinton Assault weapon ban went into effect. Nothing happened and we all still own our firearms.

[grumble]

That's kind of my thinking. It's sensible to be concerned, it doesn't make sense to get all hyperbolic about it. When I read these angry diatribes I wonder if the author expects us all to grab our pitchforks and march on Washington or something. Running around screaming seems a bit silly to me.

[kfander]

Consider this. Perhaps the only reason it doesn't happen is that people get upset about it. Once we all take the calm approach and refuse to fret about it, then it will happen. As it is, gun control is happening incrementally. We may all own weapons, but we cannot legally own the same weapons we once were able to own, we cannot own them in all parts of the country, and there are severe restrictions on our use of them.

[grumble]

Just speaking for myself, I can own any gun I want, except those that were restricted in 1934. In this state, we vote for people who match our values. Those on the East and Left Coasts, I assume, do the same.

I'm not quite ready to try to invade California and forcibly overthrow the junta in Sacramento because I don't agree with them.

When I get angry about things, I communicate with my Rep and Senators in D.C. I know that my one voice doesn't do much, but if a couple thousand other New Mexican do the same, it can influence votes in committee or on the floor. I've also found that firm wording influences, panicky or hyperbolic wording shuts off the recipient.

"Angry" doesn't mean shouting.

[kfander]

When I get angry about things, I communicate with my Rep and Senators in D.C.

So do I but, considering that my representative and senators are Michael Michaud, Olympia Snowe and Susan Collins, neither of whom I've voted for, I may as well be complaining to my cats. On the subject of gun control, we don't have it so bad in Maine; but this is not due to a love of the constitution so much as a love for hunting. Our state referendum laws have already allowed us to undo a strict gun control law that was passed by our state congress a few years back. In Maine, objectionable laws can be overturned by public referendum. Notably, the public has overturned gun control laws, gay marriage, several new tax laws and, interestingly, one law that was intended to make it more difficult for public referendums to succeed.

[grumble]

Ahh. Initiative and referendum. What a great way to have things. Wish we had that here. But it can also backfire when the kooks start to outnumber the "real" people, like in California.

[kfander]

In Maine, we prefer to elect our kooks to public office. I guess they figure it's easier to keep track of them that way.

[grumble]

Ha! Very well said, kfander!

[Mad_Professor]

Impeach Obama FIRST, then prosecute the WHOLE LOT. That way the IM-POTUS cannot pardon the murderers.

Once that is accomplished, extradite them all to MEXICO, they don't deserve an American country club jail.