Life life without ANY type of credit

[ryanmercer]

Does anyone here think it is possible to live in the U.S. without any credit (credit cards, mortgages, car loans, etc) without being independently wealthy?

Is it possible to live an entire life in the U.S. now on just cash?

[Dawgus]

My 73 year old uncle has lived that way his entire life. He had a good job working for the county after he came back from the service, and banked every dime. If he wanted something, he withdrew the cash and got it. He built a new house for himself and my grandma in the late 70's, and paid cash for the whole thing, every single piece. Grandma already owned the land since the 20's,and signed it over to him. He bought his truck in '89, got the total price and got out the cash to cover it...same thing with his MF tractor & accesories, car, and all his other things in the house. He's never had a checking account,credit card and never financed a thing.....cash or nothing. He even still drives to town to pay his unility bills with cash. Lots of the family wonder how he got the money he has tucked away, and it's actually pretty simple.....he just never spent it on anything unnecessary. He retired from the county at age 60, and has always kept odd jobs to keep himself busy and to make a few extra bucks. He was a greenskeeper at a local golf course, and also for 2 small churches. Every dime went in the bank, though last year he finally decided to fully retire and work around the house on his 7 acres.
Sure it's possible to live this way now, but it's hard for many to resist that urge for a new car, new tv or gadget. I've learned a lot from my uncle on how to live, and he is actually the only family member that understand the way my wife and I are trying to live now. The family place he has built is willed to me, and his retirement time is spent fixing the place up....leveling out and filling the small swampland, planting fruit trees, and building a barn. We have a lot to learn from his generation, sadly most of it is ignored in this modern world of instant gratification and greed.

[Shamrock1121]

Sure it is. You'll note some of the same character qualities as the uncle Dawgus described - sacrifice, saving, hard-working, smart....

My grandfather retired a wealthy man when he was 43 years old and never used credit of any kind - EVER. He died in 1989 with a large cash estate. He never went to school and couldn't read - but could do math quicker in his head than I can with a calculator. He was extremely thrifty (almost to a fault), to the point of saving his used chewing gum in a tiny tin and chewing it until it was completely gone. He allowed grandma one 40 watt bulb in the kitchen and their water source was from a hand pump in the kitchen, flushed the toilet with water from a bucket, and cooked with a wood stove until they were in their late 80's.

He worked as a pastry cook in a logging camp. Saved until he bought a farm in the bush country of Northern Ontario. Made a fortune during WWII (something about black market gas and goods ;)) Sold his idealic, self-supporting, farmstead to some well-to-do person to use as a hunting lodge.

Real time examples... You must not have caught Dave Ramsey's program on the radio http://www.daveramsey.com/. People call in on Friday to scream they are debt-free - which gives the rest of us "hope" of the possibility. They have cut up their credit cards and use debit cards instead, pay cash for cars, and there's very few I'd call "rich".

If you are looking for a how-to, check out the Ramsey web site for the "7 Baby Steps" http://www.daveramsey.com/etc/cms/index.cfm?intContentID=2867

We're on step 6. As soon as our home is paid off (not far to go now - a 2-year old, 1,372 sq. ft. home), we'll never use credit for anything ever again (we're in our mid-50's)! We started in a paid-for 10'x50' mobile home in 1971 making less than $3,000 that year and paid for hubby's college education those first years.

As it is now, we use a debit card when needed (on-line purchases) and pay cash for everything. If we don't have the cash to pay for something, we don't buy it; or save our money until we can afford it.

This from the person who has a $50/week grocery budget (2 adults) and has accumulated 6-months to 1-year of food in storage with that budget. Has squeezed every penny until it squeels, saves her dollar bills to fund the emergency/Christmas account, pays herself $20/month to cut her OWN hair (which goes into the savings account), shops thrift stores (and STILL looks great ;D), drives paid-for 2002 Toyato RAV-4 and 2003 Toyota Matrix (both with less than 40,000 miles on them), uses rain barrels (free water), and a million of other things to save....

We've sacrificed NOW so we can retire with some dignity rather than waiting for the 3rd of each month waiting for the Social INSECURITY checks.

-Karen

[ryanmercer]

Yes but enough of older uncles and grandfathers... I didn't say decades and decades ago, I said now. :) big difference... they had their property before it became unheard of to not get a mortgage... they had homes/land/fortunes going long before you had to take on an insane amount of debt just to have a roof over your head.

And as to Ramsey... he still supports mortgages... I'm talking with NO credit, not a dime of borrowed money.

No credit cards, loans, car notes, mortgages, cash advances, nothing. None of it.

[AlchemyAcres]

If you want things now, I'd say you're going to have a difficult time, but if you're able to save up some money it can be done.
I've come pretty close to living debt free...no credit cards, car loans, advances, bank accounts.....
except for a couple small mortgages over the years (my only debts).
IMHO, mortgages aren't a bad thing if done right.
It would have made zero sense for me to rent a place and save up money to buy a place....when all the money can go towards owning.
I pay 318.01 a month on a 15 year mortgage ($35,000)...9 years to go (unless I pay it off earlier)
There's absolutely no way I could have even rented a decent place for that amount....even with the interest I'll make out better in the end....the property has produced enough to make the payment (firewood, hay, lumber, etc), minus the labor.


~Martin

[ryanmercer]

If you want things now, I'd say you're going to have a difficult time, but if you're able to save up some money it can be done.
I've come pretty close to living debt free...no credit cards, car loans, advances, bank accounts.....
except for a couple small mortgages over the years (my only debts).
IMHO, mortgages aren't a bad thing if done right.
It would have made zero sense for me to rent a place and save up money to buy a place....when all the money can go towards owning.
I pay 318.01 a month on a 15 year mortgage ($35,000)...9 years to go (unless I pay it off earlier)
There's absolutely no way I could have even rented a decent place for that amount....even with the interest I'll make out better in the end....the property has produced enough to make the payment (firewood, hay, lumber, etc), minus the labor.


~Martin








For us city folk with a metro population of 2,014,267... I could rent a place more than adequate for me for $600, and a mortgage in any SAFE neighborhood is going to run me 750+ with a 10% down payment (with a tiny tiny tiny yard). That 750+ is also NOT including insurance and taxes.

So lets say we use http://realestate.yahoo.com/calculators/rent_vs_own.html

Entering these values from top to bottom. 600, 200, 50 (what a friend pays), 5, 115000, 5, 115000(as I presently have no down payment), 6, 30, 600 ( a little lower than my moms), 1800 (my moms but it's going up), 500 (a bit conservative), 10, 25, 8, 3.5. (this link should pop it all up http://tinyurl.com/5ssv7b )

It claims "You would save approximately $67,208 (in today's dollars) by buying a home, rather than renting, over the 10 year time frame you have entered."

I just don't see it though... as the money I'd be saving renting instead of buying, I could be tucking away for down payment or outright purchase. There is no guarantee property is going to appreciate... especially here... the past 5 years property has been going down down down in value, and shows no signs of stopping.

Maybe the calculator knows best though...

Besides that is getting me a house in the burbs with a tiny lawn. I don't have an adequate down payment and wouldn't for years for something where I'd want to live, even having only a few acres.

*shrugs*

I suppose if I can ever find a woman that'll have me... it'd work best for us to rent for 1-3 years while we tuck away every last dime we can for down payment money.

273 character long URl that messed up the page display replaced by tinyurl. Please use http://tinyurl.com/ to shorten any links that are longer than 60 characters. Thanks. --admin

[AlchemyAcres]

Well, I do think it would be next to impossible in a city.
Unless you have a very good job.

I was thinking country life, living frugally, simply and with little income.
I've never made a lot of cash and I sure ain't wealthy....LOL


~Martin

[blutfort]

How far do you want to take the "no credit" concept? The story of the grandfather above driving into town and pay his utility bills inperson, had credit extended to him by the utility company. The reason I ask, is how is that different than having a credit card and paying it off each month. It sure is a lot more convenient for me to type in the old discover card/mastercard/Visa number than write a check to get something delivered from something on the internet.
Credit isn't a vice of the last few years either if I understand how a lot of the "Homesteaders" operated. I thought a lot of them bought their seed on credit and paid for the seed after the crops came in. This probably lead to a lot of the same problems as today's people buying an LCD TV and hoping to pay for it with their tax return(haha).

[AlchemyAcres]

In my case, I don't have 'utility' bills other than DSL and that's paid a month in advance, so certainly not credit.


~Martin

[walls0stone]

the way people see credit today is so far from the way it was before.
Needless to say that as a student, they fill your bags at the book store with credit card apps.
I guess you have Credit....and then you have loan sharks.

[ryanmercer]

I don't see the utility bills as credit I see that as getting billed for a service after you use it... I don't pay someone to cut my grass, before they do it... or they'd do a crappy job. I surely am not going to prepay my utilities before I use them... as how will I know how much I'm going to use?

[SkooliesRock]

Sure......just ask someone else to give you money to pay your way, like education......but sweeten it up & call it "sponsorship" *::)

"Any amount you help me with will be investing in my future. Not only will it invest in my future, but invest in the future of the U.S. as one more citizen well join the learned ranks and help keep jobs here."

[ryanmercer]

Sure......just ask someone else to give you money to pay your way, like education......but sweeten it up & call it "sponsorship" *::)

"Any amount you help me with will be investing in my future. Not only will it invest in my future, but invest in the future of the U.S. as one more citizen well join the learned ranks and help keep jobs here."

Hey I'm not begging, I'm not free loading, I'm giving people the option to donate to me if they wish... not a darn thing wrong with that. The link quietly sits their in my signature on forums, never once have I asked people anywhere to go to it and contribute. It's passively seeking sponsors, not begging, not free loading, not asking someone to pay my way :)

[SkooliesRock]

lol....if you say so. I find humorously ironic, that someone on a "self-reliance" forum......is asking others to pay their way.

[GoodDaughter]

I don't know about the 'credit' thing as it applies to utilities... years ago when we got the utilities here, the utility companies checked our credit backgroud. Why, I don't know, but they did. If I am not mistaken, they still do? If a person buys homeowners insurance, your credit background is checked, and many employers also check your credit history. JoAnn Fabric and Hobby Lobby among them, believe it or not. Credit seems to touch every part of our lives, even the parts where it makes no sense to check.

I don't think mortagage debt is a bad thing, if that is the only way you can get property. Some folks have it passed down to them from their parents or grandparents, but many of us don't have that option and have to buy our own land. I DO think property that was once 'cheap', or at least 'cheapER' is now very hard to find. Used to be you could buy marginal land for a decent price, but the past 5 years or so, I have seen marginal property going for what really good land sells for. I have my home here paid for (paid a 15 year loan off in 9 years, 9 months by paying more on the principle) and have bought three other properties besides over the years. But I think I couldn't do that anymore, simply because the cost of land has gone sky-high.

If I were stuck in the city, looking at $750/month for a place, I think I would have to reset my priorities and overhaul my future plans. But that's just me.

As for someone soliciting funds for education-- how is this different than contributing to any other charity? I give to my church, and to a few other charities so that people will have a chance to better themselves and their situation. That is strictly between me and the charity, and no one else's business.

[ryanmercer]

lol....if you say so. I find humorously ironic, that someone on a "self-reliance" forum......is asking others to pay their way.


Again, I did NOT ask ANYONE on THESE forums to pay for my schooling. I simply put a line in my signature, that no one has to click on. If you have a problem with it... pretend you don't see my posts. Period.

[ryanmercer]

As for someone soliciting funds for education-- how is this different than contributing to any other charity? I give to my church, and to a few other charities so that people will have a chance to better themselves and their situation. That is strictly between me and the charity, and no one else's business.

Thank you, and that is what the site was developed for... for people who wish to willingly give to help others out.

[SkooliesRock]

Again, I did NOT ask ANYONE on THESE forums to pay for my schooling. I simply put a line in my signature, that no one has to click on. If you have a problem with it... pretend you don't see my posts. Period.


Again....

"Any amount you help me with will be investing in my future. Not only will it invest in my future, but invest in the future of the U.S. as one more citizen well join the learned ranks and help keep jobs here."


::)

Inappropriate personal comment removed by admin :D

[ryanmercer]

Again....

"Any amount you help me with will be investing in my future. Not only will it invest in my future, but invest in the future of the U.S. as one more citizen well join the learned ranks and help keep jobs here."

::)

Inappropriate personal comment removed by admin

There is absolutely nothing wrong with it. But you've now attacked me multiple times. If you can not stop, please don't view my posts.

[SkooliesRock]

"Attacked" you ?

Name-calling removed by admin

Your posts are too funny not to read, if I offend you so much, put me on your ignore list......but where's the drama in that, right?? sniff-sniff............

[GoodDaughter]

Hey Schoolie, I think it's time you observed the rules of the forum to 'play nice'. If you can't do that, you need to take your little marbles and go find someone else to bully. Suck it up, big boy; mind your own business and stop trying to cram your opinions down people's throats, and try to act like a Inappropriate characterization removed by admin decent person while you're a guest on this website.

[ryanmercer]

Hey Schoolie, I think it's time you observed the rules of the forum to 'play nice'. If you can't do that, you need to take your little marbles and go find someone else to bully. *Suck it up, big boy; mind your own business and stop trying to cram your opinions down people's throats, and try to act like a half-assed decent person while you're a guest on this website.
*hugs*

[SkooliesRock]

Hey Schoolie, I think it's time you observed the rules of the forum to 'play nice'. If you can't do that, you need to take your little marbles and go find someone else to bully. Suck it up, big boy; mind your own business and stop trying to cram your opinions down people's throats, and try to act like a half-assed decent person while you're a guest on this website.

Thank you for your non-moderator opinion, once you reach the status of moderator, your opinion will hold some merit with me. Until then, it's merely babble. It's also not your place to suggest I go elsewhere, seeing as I have just as much right to be here as you.

I hardly think I've "bullied" anyone, and I've seen much worse from others. I merely stated I find it comical that someone is a member of a "self-reliant" forum, yet can't provide their own financial means without a begging cup. "Donate" all the money you have to him, I could care less. Be sure you note what he claims to hold a degree in ::)


Demeaning characterization changed by admin

[walls0stone]

Sure......just ask someone else to give you money to pay your way, like education......but sweeten it up & call it "sponsorship" ::)

"Any amount you help me with will be investing in my future. Not only will it invest in my future, but invest in the future of the U.S. as one more citizen well join the learned ranks and help keep jobs here."

why not? that's called MARKEETING! if you need to ask for the sale....if your NOT standing in hands out's line..it's the same as sponcoring a radio staion, race car, kid in the walk athon. Rather clever realy...

I know a man who made a movie and it was seen at Sundance film fest.. He had a sponcer, it's called a producer. Rich woman said, "I beleave in your plan, here is a million bucks". But he had to have a good reason for her to buy into what he was selling...

What did she get? a warm fuzzy feeling.


Clarification - BHM does not permit business use or solicitations of any kind in the Forum. If we did, we would soon find that was all that was being posted.

If there are any questions about this policy, please contact me directly via IM or email.

Oliver

[GoodDaughter]

Well, you're quite welcome for my non-moderator opinion. And like you, who are also not a moderator, I will continue to call shots as I see them and respond appropriately, even to your babble and bullying if I so choose. Despite you saying that you could care less what the OP says or does, obviously you do care, enough to be snotty while trying to convince folks that you are merely 'amused'. If a person were merely amused, it is unlikely they would post such comments as you have, Schoolie. Your sophistry stinks to high heaven, and is plain for everyone to see.

What this person holds a degree in is none of my business, either. Is it yours? So, what's your degree in? Should I care? Credentials for cramming your opinions down people's throats, please....? ::)

Oh, here's one of your own pearls of wisdom Quote "All I'm saying is, it's easy for someone to set back & condem another when they've never met the person, or been in their position. *We're quick to label another "nuts" simply because they've chosen to do something we either can't, won't or are too afraid to try."

Oh, this is too good.. Quote "......but it's not my place to condem you for the choices you've made. I wish you & everyone here the wisdom to make the choices that are best for you....however that choice may not be right for the next person."

BTW, 'condem' is actually spelled 'condemn'. Just sayin'.

;)
:-*

[SkooliesRock]

I believe you are guilty of being much worse at the things you are accusing me of, perhaps you should re-read your posts ::)

Personally, I don't give a rats-behind what you, or anyone else thinks of me. Sorry, you''ll have to try something else Demeaning comment removed by admin. LMAO "cramming" my opinions down someones throat?? Have I twisted your arm into reading my posts? No,you've obviously chosen to, and you'll find things are less apt to find their way down your throat if you keep your lips closed.

It's good some guys have women like you to run to defend them ::) Oh, regarding my spelling, I never finished high-school, and certainly didn't attend college, so I have an excuse :-*

Again, Uncivil comment removed by admin, you've proved nothing. Where have I "condemed" anyone? I merely call a spade a spade......and a beggar a beggar ::)

[Cil]

All right that's enough, both of you!! I get that kind of crap from other boardsand why I left those boards, I don't want it here! If you two have a problem pm each other.



Cil, thank you for making the correct suggestion.

If folks have a problem with each other, they should take it to IM or email or simply use the Ignore button. That's what it's there for.

Thanks again.

[GoodDaughter]

Yeah, Schoolie, reading some of your past posts, you have an excuse for everything, don't you? *Pity you couldn't rise above your situation like some folks try to. Must be fun to wallow in self pity all day long... Your words speak volumes about what kind of man you are. You call a spade a spade, and I call a hypocrite a hypocrite. But hey, it's just my opinion. Your words speak for themselves.

Cil.... yes, mommy. ;) *

[Cil]

Very good [pun iintended], daughter! :P Actually, one the boards I left, I was a moderator at, but the constant bickering and 2 yr. old temper tantrums forced me to leave.

[admin]

Everyone,

I expect to find squabbling in Politics, but not in the Frugal Living board.

With all we're facing as a nation, and as individuals in the coming years, petty arguments about non-issues should be last on our minds, especially in a Board like this one.

IMHO, of course.


Oliver

[ryanmercer]

Now can we get back to my topic please?

[Cil]

All right that's enough, both of you!! I get that kind of crap from other boardsand why I left those boards, I don't want it here! If you two have a problem pm each other.



Cil, thank you for making the correct suggestion.

If folks have a problem with each other, they should take it to IM or email or simply use the Ignore button. That's what it's there for.

Thanks again.


You're welcome. I fortunately haven't had to deal with this at the board I'm now site admin at. But I WILL DEAL HARSHLY when and if it crops up.

[High_Desert]

Ryan, I agree with Martin. While I cringe every month at the mortgage payment, I am also thankfull. My property would be unattainable now. I am glad I "leaped" when I did. I just try and pay cash every where else. Sometimes you cant do it all at once.

Best Regards,
HD

[walls0stone]

Clarification - BHM does not permit business use or solicitations of any kind in the Forum. If we did, we would soon find that was all that was being posted.

If there are any questions about this policy, please contact me directly via IM or email.

Oliver



How nice, I stick to the subject and quote a person on the topic and I get a note? *I'm saying if a person were to get a sponsor for schooling, it would be markeeting, not begging! Kinda like the stuff on the right of my computer screen right now! or the adds placed in TV shows that you don't even catch.. the SOPRANOS come to mind or the brands on NASCAR.

To the Sponsor, It's just another add. CAT Tractor sponsors students at PCT in Williamsport PA. Each student sponcered is given a jackeet and uniform from the store that sponsored him. *B.M.W and toyota also have such programs at the school of Auto Body. the student must conduct him/her self in a given way to promote good PR.

Sponcored students are not beggers, they are very very smart people who enter into a service agreement with a person or company. The company or person gets an add and the student gets an education.

[GoodDaughter]

The original question is "Does anyone here think it is possible to live in the U.S. without any credit (credit cards, mortgages, car loans, etc) without being independently wealthy?"

I think it is possible, although you'd likely have to have some support from family at least to begin with. A job of course is a given, or like myself, a self-owned business.

Examples of what one could do on a cash basis are, just off the top of my head; A person can now obtain residential phone service, cell phone service, internet and electrical service on a prepaid basis, payable in cash, no credit checks or information asked for other than name, address, etc. Just pay up front and you've got the service. I don't know about water utility service, I haven't heard of any advertised around here like the other services/utilities. Maybe if you rented or bought a place with a well it wouldn't be an issue.

The next issue is a place to live. You could possibly rent an apartment or house from an individual without credit check if you had first/last month rent, deposits, etc. in cash. You'd have to find a landlord that would take cash or perhaps you could convert your cash to money orders to pay them. Lots of people still pay their bills in money orders. I suppose one could even find an individual owner who might sell you a house or land without credit, but again you'd have to have a chunk of money up front and it would be worriesome to me to wonder if they would die before the note was paid off. In that regard, it might be better to buy a piece of land either on cash/money orders paid in full, and buy a used moblie home for cash to live in and fix it up over time. Possibly a person could buy land or a home from a relative. Along with land/home ownership comes property taxes. I pay mine in green cash money, every year, all three properties. The tax assessor hasn't turned it down yet! ;)

Transportation--anyone can buy a car from another individual for cash, fill out the title application and take it to the dmv or wherever and have it titled, registered, and sales tax and pay for it in cash. You just need your driver's license, SS#, title application, and appropriately filled out title (I've done this many, many times over the years; your state may vary slightly but all states in the U.S. now have 'conforming' titles. No credit involved at all; just green cash money.

Healthcare is also an issue. I don't have it, can't afford it. What I have done yesterday and today is to arrange my surgery through a hospital that accepts 'cash' or 'self paying' patients. Yesterday I paid Memorial Hermann Hospital $3400.00 for their surgery suite; $850.00 for the surgeon's fee; and $675 for the anesthesiologist. PAID IN GREEN CASH MONEY. Yeah, I got odd looks, but I called ahead and yes, while it was unusual, they did accept cash. And lest any think I paid too much, the Dr. told me that if I had good insurance like Blue Cross/Blue Shield, the same surgery would be a bit over $20,000.00 :o So I guess Blue Cross jacks up the prices of healthcare and passes the cost along to it's subscribers in the form of higher premiums? Anyway, my point is that a person can provide some of their own healthcare, to some extent, without using credit cards or getting loans etc.

Fuel, food, clothing, necessities can be had with cash anywhere. My concern would be that our country seems to be heading toward a 'cashless' society where businesses and corporations and institutions no longer accept green cash money as payment and only accept credit or debit. I think Ebay just started doing this, didn't they?

I'm sure I'm missing a lot of things that a person would have to deal with on an everyday basis, but those seem to be the most important ones I could think of. I think a home or land would be the hardest to obtain without credit. You would certainly have to search out nontraditional options.

[GoodDaughter]

Just thought.... people who are paid by their employers with a check sometimes use the 'PayDay' check cashing services. No doubt they charge a hefty % to cash your check, but lots of people use them.

When you file your taxes, or if you are contract and your employer 1099's you, I guess you could pay the IRS with money orders if you owe, or if you get a refund, use the check cashing service to convert your check to cash. Heck, even Wal Mart was offering to cash the $600 economic incentive checks a while back, free of charge. ::)

Ok, can a person do all this without being 'independantly wealthy' as the OP asked... well, yeah, why not? You'll have to have a job, you'll have to have SOME source of income to pay for things. I have known a few people in my time who were what most folks would call 'dirt poor', and they paid for things in cash. But they didn't get everything all at once, like Martin mentioned. I think you'd have to work and save up for a while, and maybe live well below your means to continue to save up to pay for things.

[walls0stone]

You can

But if there were only one answer to that question, I would wright a book and make a mint. there is no one way to sucsess.

[admin]

How nice, I stick to the subject and quote a person on the topic and I get a note?

My apologies.

I thought everyone understood that notes in blue were just comments relevant to the content of the post, NOT the result of any bad behavior.

Your post mentioned marketing, so I thought it a good place to remind members that such activities, while common and acceptable elsewhere, were not permitted in the Forum.

Likewise, I also commented in Cil's post three down from yours.

When someone crosses the civility line, I use red for deletions or comments, as you'll note in several other posts in this thread.

Sorry for the misunderstanding.


Oliver

[ryanmercer]

How nice, I stick to the subject and quote a person on the topic and I get a note? *I'm saying if a person were to get a sponsor for schooling, it would be markeeting, not begging! Kinda like the stuff on the right of my computer screen right now! or the adds placed in TV shows that you don't even catch.. the SOPRANOS come to mind or the brands on NASCAR.

To the Sponsor, It's just another add. CAT Tractor sponsors students at PCT in Williamsport PA. Each student sponcered is given a jackeet and uniform from the store that sponsored him. *B.M.W *and toyota also have such programs at the school of Auto Body. *the student must conduct him/her self in a given way to promote good PR.

Sponcored students are not beggers, they are very very smart people who enter into a service agreement with a person or company. The company or person gets an add and the student gets an education.


Just let it go, we lose.

[ryanmercer]

The original question is "Does anyone here think it is possible to live in the U.S. without any credit (credit cards, mortgages, car loans, etc) without being independently wealthy?"

I think it is possible, although you'd likely have to have some support from family at least to begin with. A job of course is a given, or like myself, a self-owned business. *

Examples of what one could do on a cash basis are, just off the top of my head; A person can now obtain residential phone service, cell phone service, internet and electrical service on a prepaid basis, payable in cash, no credit checks or information asked for other than name, address, etc. Just pay up front and you've got the service. I don't know about water utility service, I haven't heard of any advertised around here like the other services/utilities. Maybe if you rented or bought a place with a well it wouldn't be an issue.

The next issue is a place to live. You could possibly rent an apartment or house from an individual without credit check if you had first/last month rent, deposits, etc. in cash. You'd have to find a landlord that would take cash or perhaps you could convert your cash to money orders to pay them. Lots of people still pay their bills in money orders. *I suppose one could even find an individual owner who might sell you a house or land without credit, but again you'd have to have a chunk of money up front and it would be worriesome to me to wonder if they would die before the note was paid off. *In that regard, it might be better to buy a piece of land either on cash/money orders paid in full, and buy a used moblie home for cash to live in and fix it up over time. Possibly a person could buy land or a home from a relative. Along with land/home ownership comes property taxes. I pay mine in green cash money, every year, all three properties. The tax assessor hasn't turned it down yet! ;)

Transportation--anyone can buy a car from another individual for cash, fill out the title application and take it to the dmv or wherever and have it titled, registered, and sales tax and pay for it in cash. You just need your driver's license, SS#, title application, and appropriately filled out title (I've done this many, many times over the years; your state may vary slightly but all states in the U.S. now have 'conforming' titles. No credit involved at all; just green cash money.

Healthcare is also an issue. I don't have it, can't afford it. What I have done yesterday and today is to arrange my surgery through a hospital that accepts 'cash' or 'self paying' patients. Yesterday I paid Memorial Hermann Hospital $3400.00 for their surgery suite; $850.00 for the surgeon's fee; and $675 for the anesthesiologist. PAID IN GREEN CASH MONEY. Yeah, I got odd looks, but I called ahead and yes, while it was unusual, they did accept cash. And lest any think I paid too much, the Dr. told me that if I had good insurance like Blue Cross/Blue Shield, the same surgery would be a bit over $20,000.00 :o *So I guess Blue Cross jacks up the prices of healthcare and passes the cost along to it's subscribers in the form of higher premiums? Anyway, my point is that a person can provide some of their own healthcare, to some extent, without using credit cards or getting loans etc.

Fuel, food, clothing, necessities can be had with cash anywhere. My concern would be that our country seems to be heading toward a 'cashless' society where businesses and corporations and institutions no longer accept green cash money as payment and only accept credit or debit. I think Ebay just started doing this, didn't they?

I'm sure I'm missing a lot of things that a person would have to deal with on an everyday basis, but those seem to be the most important ones I could think of. I think a home or land would be the hardest to obtain without credit. *You would certainly have to search out nontraditional options.


Now those are the reassuring things I like to see :) as soon as I have what debt I have now gone... I am going to attempt to never incur another cent of debt, with the only exception being a mortgage, however when I do get around to buying I plan on slapping the largest chunk of cash I can down, so I'm only stuck with a mortgage payment for 1-5 years MAX.

[suijurisfreeman]

Not only is is possible, I've done it since 1994. *And before that I owned and operated my own business for 27 years with no accounts payable and no accounts receiveable -- all materials etc. were paid for up front and I collected upon delivery. *Helps a man sleep better at night! * ;D

[anna]

Generally I think its simply a matter of how a person thinks about money and how they develop a spending plan. We're debt free. We do use a credit card but it's paid in full each month. We could easily forgo credit cards but they're convenient. Its a hassle to write checks anymore and I'm not comfortable carrying large amounts of cash.

If I'd known and understood finances when I was first married as I do now, we would have created real wealth for ourselves thru the years. Unfortunately, I learned too late to do that but I've managed to get out of debt and save for retirement.

Its all attitude, education and self-discipline. Have an attitude of doing what is necessary to handle your money wisely, educating yourself on how to do it and the self-discipline to follow through.

Yes, I'd say you can live without credit cards and mortgages, but careful analysis of your situation might show it wiser to have a mortgage. If you are careful in choosing a house that is not beyond reason in price, take a 15 year mortgage and work steadily to pay it off early, you're probably making good use of credit. If you're buying a boat, a camper, a new pickup to pull them and new furniture on credit, I'd say you're a fool money wise.(BTW its a whole lot easier to live without debt than to get out of debt once you're in it.)

[walls0stone]

a friend of our family is a megga contractor..he build a super fancy Library in the 80's in Ithica NY. He leads 100's of men evert day..keeps a tight ship and looks like a tank. You could call this man a titan.

He told me when I was in grade school, the secret to his wealth, is that his wife has him on a budget. He got 50 bucks a day for gas, brec, lunch, dinner and whatever he needed. Taking into account his 12 and 14 hour days, I'm sure that went fast. If he spend more than his share..he walked home.

[whippersnapper]

Most of us probably could live well, and save a few bucks on 50 dollars a day. I wish I had that kind of allowance. ;)

Sorry about this long post but I talk to people all the time about money, and their debt problems. They ask me to help them, but seldom follow my advice...I'm 42 years old and never borrowed a dime in my life. I have also never made much more than about 400 dollars a week, usually less. I have paid for every car or motorcycle, gun, boat, toy, I have ever owned with cash. Before I met the gal I have been with for the last 10 years, I rented, and paid with cash. I saved the money before I bought anything. I do have bank accounts and use debit cards and write an occasional check, but that's my money, not credit.

We do have a mortgage now (hers before we met). Other than that, she is also debt free.

It ain't easy for most people, but it can be done. Try hard not to get off on the wrong track borrowing college money and do not have children until you are able to afford them. They are expensive! Also, find a partner that shares your financial goals. Not one that expects a 10 thousand dollar wedding and a big rock for her finger. Those kind are also expensive. Imo, nothing gets young people off on the wrong track sooner than those 2 things, and credit cards, of course.

It can be done but you must get in the right mindset; Don't worry about impressing other people showing off material things. Most of the fancy stuff your friends have will be really owned by the lenders. I would rather own an older truck that was paid for, than drive around in a brand spankin' new one that I am paying for by the month. You have to do without things you don't really need...The 50 dollar tattoo; Sure, only 50 bucks but if you spend it, and your car battery dies the next day...Your sol and have to borrow the money from somewhere. Did you really need that tattoo? I guess you will look really cool with you new ink stained arm stuck out hitchhiking.

Most people don't have a clue how to save money. They live paycheck to paycheck and when they hit a bump in the road called life, they have to go in debt to get over it. Many of these same kind of people also have the newest video game, have to eat out 2-3 times a week, or have their beer and cigarettes. People piss away more money than they want to realize. They really believe they need all those things to keep them happy. If you really need those things to make you happy, there is something wrong with you.

Now I'm not saying you can't have nice things. People just don't "need" those things and by all means buy what you like after you have established a rainy day fund big enough to cover a few of those bumps in the road.

I never got into the debt trap. Never felt like I needed to impress people. Never wanted to be owned. Never wanted too "have" to go to work for someone everyday because someone was expecting part of my money at the end of the month. I will never be rich, but banks pay me money every month for the use of my life savings, and that's a hell of a lot better then paying them.

Am I happier than other people that are up to their ears in debt? No, but it is one less thing to worry about, and I refuse to be a slave.

[walls0stone]

I agree with aeverything but the children part wind. Now if your job requires you to say, "want fries with that" then keep claw'n upwards and get a second job rather than Tom Catt'n around and risking make'n a crum Cruncher. But if you wait till your 37 to have kids, how old will be you be when you want to play with them?

How old will they be when you need them to help you?
Your tactics are spot on as I can see. I have never taken a bank loan, but I took hard jobs that paid large money. Gas line and construction work.

But I have to go to work becouse someone is expecting a bit of my money, my 2 children. I also have no desrie to retire. I aspire to work till I drop over dead.

[ryanmercer]

Nice reply whippersnapper

[RangerRick]

Credit is but a tool just as a hammer, screw driver or paint brush. If you can't used a tool in a responsible manner don't used that tool. I personally use a Discover Card almost exclusively. I pay all my routine bills with that card online because it is a tremendous convience. When I had a mortgage I even paid that monthly online. When Sweetie and I grab a burger we use the card, if I stop at 7-11 for a soda I use the card. I have bought cars & motorcycles with the card, airline tickets, ocean cruises, toys of every description and when I buy the materials for my cabin on the lake it will be with the card. I pay my bill in full every month before it's due and always have, I do not pay late fees ever. I can jump online and see what my daily or total bill in an instant. Of course the reason I use this great credit tool is because Discover Card pays me each and every month for the priviledge of using their card to the tune of $300-$400 + bucks annually. This is free money and I don't even receive a tax form reporting it as income to the IRS. FREE MONEY for my personal convience. When you understand that credit is in fact primarily a convience and you use it responsibly for that purpose it is a truly a fantastic tool to be used for your gain.

;)

Rick

[theresehirko]

Bob and I buy things with our debit card and don't use our emergency credit card unless it's a real emergency (like the emergency root canal on Bob). We have a budget that we live by. When I quit my job to go to nursing school (only 8 months left!!!!), we got rid of the newspaper, cable tv, and any other extra we could live without. We do get the Sunday paper because of the coupons, which pays for the paper. We throw nothing away and reuse everything. We live very frugally. We save every penny we can, which is hard right now because not only am I not working, but we also have to pay tuition. I don't miss the things we gave up. I'm not going to go back to my previous way of life and in fact, I'm always looking for more ways to reduce our expenses now.

[ozarksnick]

I don't have any credit cards and never have.

Never until recently had any loans at all.

But about four years ago I purchased one house on a contract for deed, total purchase price for the place was about $7,000. That contract will be paid off less than a year from now.

Then about two years ago I took out a small bank loan to buy a second house total price about $15,000. When I finish fixing up the second house, I'll be able to sell it -- Lord willing -- for $30,000-40,000.

And hopefully I can take a little of that money I have left over to purchase another "handy-man's special" to fix up and keep myself in money that-a-way.

But no more loans for me. Ever.

[ryanmercer]

I don't have any credit cards and never have.

Never until recently had any loans at all.

But about four years ago I purchased one house on a contract for deed, total purchase price for the place was about $7,000. That contract will be paid off less than a year from now.

Then about two years ago I took out a small bank loan to buy a second house total price about $15,000. When I finish fixing up the second house, I'll be able to sell it -- Lord willing -- for $30,000-40,000.

And hopefully I can take a little of that money I have left over to purchase another "handy-man's special" to fix up and keep myself in money that-a-way.

But no more loans for me. Ever.

Wow the cheapest house I can even find around here would be 50-60k... and you'd want to put bars on the windows and reinforce the door frames.

[ozarksnick]

Wow the cheapest house I can even find around here would be 50-60k... and you'd want to put bars on the windows and reinforce the door frames.


You're just not looking in the right places! *;)

Find your way out to some place a little more rural and you'll find deals like these if you keep your eyes open for them ... and be ready for a little (or a lot) of work.

Before I decided I wanted to keep it, I put the place in Missouri up for sale. My asking price: $2,500. 700 square foot house sitting on two city lots.

No one wanted to buy it after they looked at it. They wanted to pay $2,500 for a house that was in fine condition.

Once I get finished with this house here in Kansas (we hope to be done by spring but I'm not thinking that's going to happen), I'll make you a great deal on it. It's 1,250 square feet sitting on nine-tenths of an acre. It is immediately outside the city limits of Independence, Kan. I ride my bike to work everyday, about a mile and a half to the city's downtown. Great little town, lots of job opportunities (Cessna, to name one).

[ryanmercer]

You're just not looking in the right places! *;)

Find your way out to some place a little more rural and you'll find deals like these if you keep your eyes open for them ... and be ready for a little (or a lot) of work.

Before I decided I wanted to keep it, I put the place in Missouri up for sale. My asking price: $2,500. 700 square foot house sitting on two city lots.

No one wanted to buy it after they looked at it. They wanted to pay $2,500 for a house that was in fine condition.

Once I get finished with this house here in Kansas (we hope to be done by spring but I'm not thinking that's going to happen), I'll make you a great deal on it. It's 1,250 square feet sitting on nine-tenths of an acre. It is immediately outside the city limits of Independence, Kan. I ride my bike to work everyday, about a mile and a half to the city's downtown. Great little town, lots of job opportunities (Cessna, to name one).

If you said it was in Indiana, I'd buy it now as-is heh.

[ozarksnick]

Kansas is better than Indiana. ;D

[tomato204]

Getting back to the original question- It IS possible to live without credit, but it won't be the lifestyle of those around WITH credit, and that's the problem, that 'ol "keeping up with the Jones".

[LoriAnna]

Until this week I have never had any type of credit. Now I have a credit card in my name, which I haven't used, for the purpose of building credit.

If I don't have the cash I don't buy it. It's worked for me so far. The thought of owing money like so many people do makes me "nervous and jerkey"! ;D ;D ;D

[High_Desert]

I was thinking about this thread the other night when I was hauling water to my new fruit trees I planted this year. I was using my Kubota tractor and was reflecting about how much easier life had become since I bought it.... on credit.

I think as with most things, the answer is somewhere in the middle. No, I dont think buying big screen TV's on credit would suit my values. But buying a tractor on a 3 year 0% interest factory loan suited me very well. I never paid a dime in interest and had the advantage of the tractor to improve my home. Like has been said above, credit is a tool and used wisely is a great benifit.. Used unwisely it can be hole some people can never climb out of. With the tightening of the mortgage industry, good credit is going to be a must for future home buyers.

Best regards,
HD

[SpoonBread]

had a credit card for a year in high school (at my mothers insitance, if you can believe that). I had a job and a paid it off every month, but by the end of the year, I was starting to see what an aweful temptation something like that was, and got rid of it.
I haven't used one since. I got lucky and my parents helped me get my first car, a 10 yr old Subaru for about $1k, after that I saved and worked my way up. So no car loans, either. I put myself through school for my Real Estate license by picking up a second job cleaning houses.

Same for my spouse, his only exception was that he took out some student loans, which he's widdled down quickly by throwing extra money at it when ever possible.

We have debated on whether to get a mortgage or not. For a long time we thought it was our only way. But after we were turned down this summer (granted we didn't try too terribly hard) it really made us reconsider if really wanted to be in debt to the banks for the next 30 yrs. So yeah, I'd say it's very much do able to live in this country, at this time, without the need for credit. You just have to do things a little differently. Also, I think a lot of people need to lower their standards, if they wish to live debt free or mostly any ways. I will never understand where most of my generation got it's sense of entitlement. The world don't owe you nothin' kid. And if you want that big house on the hill in the nice neighborhood, but you can't afford it (or the payments realistically) then you gotta settle for the "shack" in the "not so great" part of town and work your way up and save. Everybody's gotta start somewhere, and no one but the privileged few start out on the top.

Besides, where's the fun in that? ;)

[theresehirko]

I think it's hard to not have any plastic, because there are just some things that you can't get without plastic. Like renting a car. When Bob and I drive to visit the kids in Florida, we rent a car instead of taking our own. For one, the Yaris is so small that it wouldn't hold what we need when we visit the kids (usually at the holidays) and two, why put that much wear and tear on my own vehicle (20+ hours driving round trip plus around town), when I can put it on somebody else's? And before you say just fly, we still have to rent a car in Orlando and drive to Gainesville. They absolutely will not rent you a car here in Jackson without a major credit card. I also cannot pay for an airline ticket without a credit card, even if I drive to the airport, pay for parking, and walk up to the ticket counter with cash for my ticket. When we do use our one credit card, we pay the balance due at the end of the month. We get gasoline credits with ours and get checks in $20 increments every couple of months. BTW, gasoline is down to $2.69 today here!

[SpoonBread]

I was wondering would a Debit card connected to your checking account not work for renting a car or buying plane tickets? You have the flexibility of a card, but you only spend what you have.

[WileyCoyote]

They usedta not accept debit cards, but I have done it numerous times in the past three years. Finally corporations realized that a debit card becked by real money and not just a promise to pay was lucrative. HOWever - be aware that they will charge a reserve" that will equal the full sum onto your debit card, even if it is (especially in the case of a motel room, or rental car) something that you may not use as long as you say. But I have never had a problem with them ultimately having the books straight. SOME larger rental car agencies still turn up their nose but most won't. Ask. ;D

[theresehirko]

The credit union only allows a $250 limit per purchase, and when we rent the car for the holidays, the bill is usually over that amount, hence the credit card. We can pay the bill online so as soon as we charge something on it,we send a payment to the credit card company right away, so really, it's like a debit card. But we are very structured in our spending habits and this would not work for someone who's not disciplined.

[cinok]

We have rented cars in the past s long as the debit card has a visa/mastercard logo I have never had a problem the only thing is some companies will put a large hold $1000. or more until the car is returned and then it maytake up to 7days before they release it . You just have to ask the agent

[ryanmercer]

I was wondering would a Debit card connected to your checking account not work for renting a car or buying plane tickets? You have the flexibility of a card, but you only spend what you have.

Generally but they usually put a large hold on it... we rented a car in June to drive to FL... it was going to be a $100 hold on my credit card, or a $500 hold on my debit card.

[theresehirko]

There is nothing inherently wrong with having a credit card. The problem with credit cards is that people who don't have the cash to pay for something put it on a credit and then slowly pay it off. The interest will end up costing more than the original item. Now I realize that sometimes there are emergencies. One moth when Bob was away, I cracked a molar, had the compressor die on the van and had the A/C die in the house (of course it was summer!). We just didn't have the cash for all three things at once. So we paid to have the A/C in the house fixed, put the dental crown on the credit card, and still haven't replaced the A/C in the. It took me three months to pay off the dental crown, but i transferred the balance to a no interest introductory rate card, so really I didn't pay any interest on the crown except for the first month.

[cinok]

We kept a Credit card in the freezer to this day we started this when my wife was in nursing school.The only time we didnt do it was when we staying in the tent when we closed in our cabin. Its for emergencies that we cant swing any other way.

PS keep a hair dryer around just in case its a emergency and you can't wait for the ice to melt

[queenie]

Debt free is a way of life and the paid off mortgage is beating out the BMW as a status symbol for what is wealth. Check out www.daveramsey.com I know you will love this guy!

[yiddishe_mama]

yes you can
I have for the past 10 years. I have NO CREDIT. I refuse to use my ss# so that slams doors shut. I had to decide how important it was to me to be off grid, and learn to live with that. It is not easy, everything wants that number. I am now thankfull that I don't owe on anything. I live on very little money and don't have all the gadgets but I keep body and soul together with out credit.

[gregabob]

yes you can
I have for the past 10 years. *I have NO CREDIT. *I refuse to use my ss# so that slams doors shut. *I had to decide how important it was to me to be off grid, and learn to live with that. *It is not easy, everything wants that number. *I am now thankfull that I don't owe on anything. *I live on very little money and don't have all the gadgets but I keep body and soul together with out credit.
Good for you! I'm workin' my way there.....and welcome to the forum!

[pcrowder]

yiddishe mama - WELCOME! ;D ;D ;D