By being frugal what happens to our brothers ?

[flatwater]

I know that my wife and I have taken frugality to the next level but I have also thought about how that effects others that run the local stores , Resturants and barber ( I cut my own hair ) Do we owe any support to the small busineses around us ? and if no one bought anything I would think some people would loose their jobs.
Flatwater

[msta999]

We have always needed and will always need the local small stores. The store owner is probably not going to sell you something for a loss, unless he just wants to get rid of it. Lets face it, if your pipes break, you are not going to haggle over a few cents. You are going to just go get it and fix your pipes. Even if you do haggle, it is up to the store owner to give the discount or not.

[walls0stone]

it's like when wall-mart comes to town and says they will create 300 new jobs...but the barber closes his door and cuts hair for them.

[Bill_in_FL]

There will always be people that are eager to spend their money . It suprises me just how many people aren't frugal . For every person that shops at the flea market there are 1000 that just go to Walmart or which ever store is closest .

Bill

[cubcadet]

I go to the local grocer to buy essentials when there`s no need to hit the road. With gas at $4, it wouldn`t do to drive 15 miles one way just to pick up some eggs. Besides, the owner is a very good source of some free stuff too, like the occasional wood pallet, good for many things when in good condition, and free meat scraps for the dog. Also, he is a good source of local news which might be useful, as well as being a friend I may rely on in a pinch. No doubt, local venders are essential to a small community.

[anna]

We buy locally as much as possible on our frugal budget. We use local plumber, handyman, electrictian and when we redid our bathroom 2 years ago local contractor. The trouble is they are so busy you have to wait and wait for them to arrive. We buy gas locally and use local barber & beautian. Groceries I buy in the city where I work since I'm there anyway and prices are much much lower. If I weren't in the city anyway, I would shop locally as I did before my local job ended and I had to start commuting.

My personal take is we each have to do what is the responsible and frugal thing for our own family and let everyone else do the same. I would like to support our local grocer but I cannot afford to double my grocery budget.

[walls0stone]

I'd never use a contractor who could come out tomarrow. *the avrage age of a man with a trade is 55. *That includes butchers, barbers and jobs that don't envolve sawdust.

[bookwormom]

I guess we are not good citizens, not buying on credit to keep the economy humming.
I don't feel bad at all about it. this is such an artificial world. but I know what you mean, I do not buy so someone may not have a job. should I have my nails done so the manicurist will have work?
I bought a broom that someone here made. I got a basket for Christmas that was made locally.
If someone made sandals here out of car tires I would get a pair. I refuse to spend on silly things like those super pointy shoes or anything that is in style. I decide what is in style for me. Is it morally right to produce stuff that is nothing but new landfill material and to advertise and entice people with no more sense to buy the stuff?

[leera]

I go to the local grocer to buy essentials when there`s no need to hit the road. With gas at $4, it wouldn`t do to drive 15 miles one way just to pick up some eggs.

At the moment,if I need milk or eggs,bread,etc,I have to drive to the next town......we don't have a grocery store here anymore.

[hardrock]

I think the time has come when one needs to step back and evaluate the whole big picture.......

Obviously, WallyWorld and Starbux, aren't going to be any great loss if they dwindle and die, but local tradesmen and merchants that truly make an effort to provide for their families and their community need some consideration.

If you know any local businessmen or women that you consider a valuable asset to the community, talk to them, let them know you value their services, and that you fully intend to help support them as long as you can.
When $$ support is no longer an option, offer to barter.
Quality meatcutters, feed/seed stores, private nurseries, etc.
Maybe, when the time comes, they will reciprocate with either goods or valuable knowledge learned from their chosen trade. Pays to make the right kinda friends.....

SHTF, I'd rather call in a favor from an unemployed butcher or plumber than the kid down at the local box store.

JMHO...

[stew]

The thing that will finish small business is too much tax & legislation. New rules constantly bombard us from Brussels ( i'm talking about the UK ), and it gets increasingly more difficult to find staff prepared to join in & support you.
The cost of raw materials spirals continually, and it becomes a one way street. I was basically running my small business for the benefit of the Tax man, Vat man, local rates ( business tax ), not to mention the Child Support Agency. I didn't see a future, working for nothing basically, same number of loyal customers, but the government is determined to shut Britain down for good.
I'm off to Mexico, where I can live dirt-poor & undisturbed.

[flatwater]

As I got to thinking about your statement about moving to mexico-- Mexico will be the new UK and it seems that the USA is the new Mexico. Maybe we can go to Canada?
Flatwater

[stew]

As I got to thinking about your statement about moving to mexico-- Mexico will be the new UK and it seems that the USA is the new Mexico. Maybe we can go to Canada?
Flatwater
;D Mexico the new UK? Hardly! The only way into Mexico is to marry one, to get into the UK, you just have to cry poverty, asylum, "i'm European", or " My country doesn't understand me", and your in, benefits and all. UK is now the new 'European Dustbin'. I'm ready to shuffle it all up no worries.
I could live with Canada, but they won't let me in there, not enough money. Its too cold anyway.
:-/

[TheUnboundOne]

Dear Flatwater,

Fret not, Flatwater. Act according to your rational economic self-interest, let others act according to their rational economic self-interest, and everybody will get to where they need to be.

Think of it this way also: Saving is a form of investing. Whenever you save money on one good or service, that much money is money that can go into other goods or services.

Moreover, if you put your money into an interest-bearing account or mutual fund, the bank or broker puts the money into ventures which, if they work properly, will make a profit, produce more and better goods and services, and create jobs. The people with those jobs spend money and save/invest money as well and the process goes on, to the ultimate benefit of everyone.

Sure, in the course of working, spending, saving, and investing, as long as all individuals in an economy have freedom of choice, there will always be unequal outcomes and some ventures will not prosper. But, as long as individuals are free, those who have failing ventures can always retool, relearn, and go into ventures that will produce more and better goods and services and more profit for themselves.

[mule1rider]

FlatWater It appears that alturism is the root of all evil. Your comments and question show that you feel guilty if you seek what is best for you and your family. You have an absolute right to pursue happiness in your on life. Our society now preaches that we must sacrifice our own values for the common good of others. What rubbish. Placing your and your families needs above purchasing goods or services that you don't need is a moral act. Lose the guilt trip just because you act in your own best interest.

[WileyCoyote]

In a word - Darwin.
That which cannot adapt, cannot survive. If your local grocer charges twice what the one in the next town does, is he living far better than his neighbors on that doubled income? Then he does not deserve your money. If however he struggles to keep prices as low as possible, he may be open to bcoming a barter store - where this local person provides eggs/chickens, that one provdes beef, those three provide vegies, those two provide baked goods. If not, and he continues to keep his prces high and whines that "No one is keeping me in business!" then maybe he deserves to look for a new line of work. Does anyone feel sorry for you, Flatwater, if your crops don't come in or your cow dies? Do they provide you with help from the bottom of their hearts and pocketbooks? If not, and you feel sorry for THEM, then that is altruism - and it is deadly.

We have a local lady who runs the parts store since her husband died and left it to her. She is a very nice lady. If you need something, you call the number on the door of the store and she will come open it. Sometimes she's there, most times not. She rarely orders anything new, and doesn't order anything special for someone if she doesn't already have it. She'll tell you, "_____ probably has it." She doesn't know half of what's in her shop, and won't take inventory. She also won't allow anyone from the town to help her clean or organize. We do go there, before we go out of town for something. If she's got it, great - saved us a trip. If not, at least we know. She doesn't really care about the business, she is just keeping it open because her husband owned it. She will sell it - for about three times what it is worth! - and she doesn't even own the building. Is keeping her in business productive? She isn't getting rich off of it. She isn't hurting any one. What the hell. Eventually she will probably sell out, and then we may get a more aggressive owner who understands the business... or we might get a high tech dweeb who overprices everything to make a quick buck and then we all go to the next town instead...

People in the main do what's best for THEM - even most altruism is done so that people can feel better about themselves. While I wouldn't refuse to have relationships in town that were beneficial, I will not patronize someone whom I cannot utilize, ever, at any time - nor will I patronize someone who is incompetent or extremely overpriced, solely because of a vague guilt complex. One needs to make rational decisions, not emotional ones.

[jan_in_georgia]

While I do try to patronize local businesses where I can, often there aren't any around. But, I also think we can look at it another way.

By practicing frugality, not only am I setting a good example to others around me, I am in a better financial position to help those who truly need help. Frugality, in some cases, creates more ability to be charitable, whether it is by giving money or giving time, etc.

[cinok]

I think it is important to support your local merchants we have a little gas/grocery store less then 5 min by the house yes his prices are a little higher his gas prices are 4-5 cents more but I would hate for them to go out of bussiness. They are conveinot adn I get local chit chat from the employees and customers.

[walls0stone]

Now ponder this,
Those SOB's who told the world that margerin aka plastic, was good for us all, put tons of tax dollars up agenst the American farmer who in turn went out of business or sucome to susbsity, making the dairy industry more dependent on Uncle Sam. (spit here)

So those who could not adjust is not always the common finger to point..It wasn't darwin or free markeet capitalism that ruined agg, but some limpwristed do-da at a desk who thought that we should all eat FACTORY FOODS! The food peramid and food groups are based on this idea that eating more of what can be made factory/in mega mass...like grains or fake butter is better so that more people can eat what will be the property of your gov'

back to fake butter... My close friend grew up dairy farm'n, he is cheep as cheep...No longer milking cows he still is like many of you, has 50 chickens, an orchard, grden ect...so I was shocked to see margerin on his table..when I asked him why we were eating that crap you put on burns and cuts....he said it was cheeper..

it's cheeper but it's not butter...

In my home, I don't want anyone to bring that crap to my table. you want to eat that S*** you can eat out side in the tractor building.

It's not always box stores that run out working people or make us depend on bigger people, sometimes it's our own gov.

[TheUnboundOne]

Dear WallsOStone,

Actually, the latest First Aid information has it that you shouldn't even put oils or butter or margarine on burns, hence margarine is useless even in that regard.

For eating purposes, a small amount of butter is always better than a lot of margarine, since butter doesn't have the trans-fat of margarine.

But basically, to get back somewhat on topic, you are correct about "bigness."

:)

It isn't always economy of scale or any kind of superior competance that causes big business to overtake small business, but it can and often does result from government taxation, subsidy, and regulation. *

Truthfully, any business, small or large, that depends on government for it's profits is the incompetant one that probably wouldn't survive in a genuine free-market economy, as the present BearStearns/FannieMae/FreddieMac/AIG crisis attests.

[TheUnboundOne]

Dear WileyCoyote,

Very well put, Wiley! Sooo...have we been cracking open the works of Ayn Rand that I had mentioned in the thread on "Toxic People?" It sure sounds like it and I'm glad.

;D

[LoriAnna]

We shop at Wally in the next town over.

And I let people who like to use their credit cards buy me nice clothes.

ha!
What I mean is, I let people buy themselves nice clothes and then donate them to the thrift store the next town over and I buy them for my family at approximately 50 cents per item. Just 10 days ago I walked out of there with a bag full of Baby Old Navy and Baby Gap clothes for my son and high end clothes for my daughter...easily $200 worth of brand spanking new or close to it for about $5.

If my "brother" is an idiot, yeah for me!

[LoriAnna]

$200? ha. I meant more than that. Just one bag full for my daughter was high end baby boutique clothes, that alone had to have been $200 worth.

Anyway. I LOVE thrift store shopping. And no I don't think it hurts anyone.