Going Off Grid Questions

[let1672]

The last few years I have been working at getting off grid or minimum electric usage right now, some of the things I have with large electrical loads that I would prefer not to do without are.........and still need to find solutions.....

refrigirator/freezer
clothes washer
dish washer.....could make it without this one if needed.......
hot water...........could convert to bottle gas or wood if necessary but haven't got that far yet.......solar not to good in my area, (southern ohio)
as far as running equipmant in the garage, i.e. welders, etc, I plan on just running a generator when needed.....

What are some other things that that you have found you would prefer not to live without and found solutions for..........

Tim

[nadja]

The last few years I have been working at getting off grid or minimum electric usage right now, some of the things I have with large electrical loads that I would prefer not to do without are.........and still need to find solutions.....

refrigirator/freezer
clothes washer
dish washer.....could make it without this one if needed.......
hot water...........could convert to bottle gas or wood if necessary but haven't got that far yet.......solar not to good in my area, (southern ohio)
as far as running equipmant in the garage, i.e. welders, etc, I plan on just running a generator when needed.....

What are some other things that that you have found you would prefer not to live without and found solutions for..........

Tim

I live off grid now so prehaps I can help a bit. You could start with your refer. There is a new LG model that is huge, and only uses 3.2 amps. Very effiecient for sure.
Clothes, washer, really doesn't draw much power if used during the days of peak sunlight when solar is avail.
For hot water, stay with propane but instead of a large tank type heater instead look into the tankless or on demand type heaters. Also very good

The dishwasher would make a good bread box .

[let1672]

I will do some research on the refridgirators, had some ideas of downsizing what I actually need cold storage for too, so maybe I can even get a smaller one.........I just built a cellar but really haven't tried to see what I could move from my fridge.

as for the dishwasher, ha,

[DavidOH]

refrigirator/freezer
clothes washer
dish washer.....
hot water...........(southern ohio)
running a generator when needed.....
Tim

I'm still figuring this out for myself Tim.

Ref/Frez .... better go with Propane/Kerosene http://www.lehmans.com/
There are other brands and places to buy them, but this is a good start.

Clothes Washer: Staber! No other works so well and on low power. http://www.staber.com/

Yeah.. skip the dishwasher... that's a luxury, wish there was something better
Hot water... solar, with whatever you can get, even if it just raises the temp 10 degrees that will help a lot.
The rest of the way to HOT use propane/wood.
Generators are handy for the short term high amp uses like welding.
They are too noisy, smelly, and expensive to live off of.

[let1672]

Thank you for your response.........you have really got me thinking.

I looked up the Staber washing machines and it appears they seem like a regular washing maching with different controls........when I get to thinking about it the expression "energy can neither be created or destoryed" comes to mind. Barring some huge new technical advance they can't bypass the laws of physics..........

you add a certain amount energy to the machine and your clothes comes out clean. A motor consumes 746 watt per horse power any way you slice it.....sure they can use lower friction bearings or something and gain a little but I think the biggest gain is in wash cycle itself...........

kind of like a friend recommended not using hot water when I wash..........so far I have not noticed a difference.......

When you think about the wash cycle they are trying to please the majority of consumers......and time is probably a big factor for them.........

for me not so much, I would gladly trade time for energy so just think of the possibilities........what if I had a half hour delay to let the clothes soak in water before adgitating, maybe I could reduce the adgitating cycle to just seconds.....or a long delay before letting the spin cycle start letting the water drain due to gravity, etc..........or just hang them up without spinning.........might take longer to dry but spinning doesn't have anything to do with how clean they are............

even if it took a few hours per load, so what, it is not like I have to be here while it is washing............

I have a programable controller just waitting to be used for something.....now you have given me a new hobby.........how to convert my washing machine to use the least energy and not produce any noticable difference in my laundry........

thanks for the info.

Tim

[DavidOH]

Those ideas were for full sized appliances.

Now if you are willing to go to smaller units....

Here is a good place to start: http://www.compactappliance.com/
I bought the EdgeStar Ref from them and it works great.

Another place but I have not done business with them:
http://www.swego.com/store/pc/home.asp

Then there are the RV units: http://www.tomraper.com/parts/view/category/3.html
http://www.jcwhitney.com/rv-camper/appliances/c2608j8s18.jcwx

I think selecting what goes in your home and sizing it to fit your power is an art.

[12vman]

"for me not so much, I would gladly trade time for energy so just think of the possibilities........what if I had a half hour delay to let the clothes soak in water before adgitating, maybe I could reduce the adgitating cycle to just seconds.....or a long delay before letting the spin cycle start letting the water drain due to gravity, etc..........or just hang them up without spinning.........might take longer to dry but spinning doesn't have anything to do with how clean they are............"

That's genius! You outta develop that thought!
Welcome to the mix, btw.. ;)

[nadja]

Thank you for your response.........you have really got me thinking.

I looked up the Staber washing machines and it appears they seem like a regular washing maching with different controls........when I get to thinking about it the expression "energy can neither be created or destoryed" comes to mind. Barring some huge new technical advance they can't bypass the laws of physics..........

you add a certain amount energy to the machine and your clothes comes out clean. A motor consumes 746 watt per horse power any way you slice it.....sure they can use lower friction bearings or something and gain a little but I think the biggest gain is in wash cycle itself...........

kind of like a friend recommended not using hot water when I wash..........so far I have not noticed a difference.......

When you think about the wash cycle they are trying to please the majority of consumers......and time is probably a big factor for them.........

for me not so much, I would gladly trade time for energy so just think of the possibilities........what if I had a half hour delay to let the clothes soak in water before adgitating, maybe I could reduce the adgitating cycle to just seconds.....or a long delay before letting the spin cycle start letting the water drain due to gravity, etc..........or just hang them up without spinning.........might take longer to dry but spinning doesn't have anything to do with how clean they are............

even if it took a few hours per load, so what, it is not like I have to be here while it is washing............

I have a programable controller just waitting to be used for something.....now you have given me a new hobby.........how to convert my washing machine to use the least energy and not produce any noticable difference in my laundry........

thanks for the info.

Tim

I have only recently found that a top load wash machine uses more water and power then a front loader. Check them out. For a refer look into the LG brand . They have a fairly new version I believe is a 23 cf model that only uses 3.2 amps. Not haveing a refer beats owning a propane refer. I had propane refers for over 10 years, and every year when the humidity comes in , they all but shut down.

[Rimfire_Red]

as for the dishwasher, ha,

Yes, but I have an ASKO. Pricey - but 4 gallons total for a load that would take me about 12 gallons to wash by hand. (Seriously!) We ran it and it heated water for my sink w/o the water heater running during our 11 day power outage last spring and it didn't even make the generator burp - unlike the microwave (we monitored the voltage drops!). It heats its own water so we didn't have the wh running. Mine is about 10 years old now. I justified the cost because I pump well water, heat it and run it through my drain field. It uses almost no soap compared to others I have had. You may not be interested I love it!

[grumble]

"Not haveing a refer beats owning a propane refer. I had propane refers for over 10 years, and every year when the humidity comes in , they all but shut down. "

You got me on that one! What does humidity have to do with the operation of a propane reefer? My only experience is with the propane reefer in my camper, and it worked fine even on wet days.

[let1672]

thanks for the posts...........

So maybe there is still hope for a dish washer too, I guess it depends on what you value, I could see easily how you could use more water washing by hand, A very good point...........and maybe there is some room for some controls modification to trade a little soak time for less electric usage.......

I think my first priority will be the washing machine.......I am going to buy one of those kill a watt things to monitor my progress.................

and thinking about refers, I am kind of hesitant to use propane for much, I think the price of that somewhat follows the price of oil and I am a peak oil believer.........I would rather find something I could produce my own energy if necessary..........haven't worked on anything yet but I have read you could run small gas engines on pure ethane..............or worst case convert to diesil and work on the bio-iesel thing..............

anyway a lot of fun projects to work on..................

[grumble]

The main problem with the dishwasher is that most of them have an electric heating element for a hot rinse and sometimes a dry cycle. That electric heating element is a real watt-eater. Without that, it's just a small motor for the pump. Some dishwashers also require fairly high water pressure, so you might need a booster pump for that.

[let1672]

you are right, mine has an option that allows me to turn the heat dry off.........those resistive loads are the big energy users........

I remember from a geo-thermal class I took that it was actually more efficient to use the geo-thermal unit just to heat your water even if you did not need the heating or cooling.........

[grumble]

Seems like that's a fairly complicated question. Heating water that's at a constant 50*F from an underground source would be efficient if the ambient temps above ground are less than 50*F. Piping water in the summer at the surface when it will heat to 80*F is a different story.

I assume you've looked into geothermal solutions? For me, that 10' - 12' deep trench was a deal killer.

[let1672]

Please let me reply before too many beers.................

Llet me just say my only experience with geo-thermal came from installing one unit in the class. The comment I made came from the instructor but seemed to make logical sense to me.............Please let me know if I have any of this wrong..........

As I understand the geo-thermal cycle you take a gas and compress it causing heat (150 degrees)......you remove some heat during the heating cycle with a air handler or exchanger to your water heater.........

then before you can compress the gas again you have to let it expand cooling it to possibly 30 degrees...........

now at this stage you could start compressing it again using a certain amount of energy to get to 150 degrees but you would basically be trading electric energy for thermal energy...........

but if you could get the gas up to 50 degrees before you start compressing it you could use less energy to get to 150 degrees...........

this is where you get the net gain from geo-thermal...........

using electric heat there is no gain..........it is roughly a one to one exchange.............

what you say about 80 degrees is correct for the heating cycle if you could have a heat enchanger that could transfer the ambient temp. when it is above 50 degrees to the gas...........but would not be as efficient during the cooling cycle........

the best solution would be two exchangers...........if that were possible.


for me I gave up the geo-thermal thing because it requires electricity but in this area vertical wells are just as efficient as trenches......not sure about your area but that is another option to digging 12' trenches......

anyway like I said please let me know if my understanding of geo-thermal is wrong........

Tim

[offgridbob]

The Idea of off grid is getting back to basics. To have the things you had before is going to cost you big money and to make that back will take a lot of years. The fun part for me going off grid is figuring ways to stop paying the MAN. I have paid him enough over the years. If that means to sacrifice and wash my own dishes, so be it.

[NCLee]

Bob, you're absolutely right, IMHO.

The approach that we're using, to the extent we can, is to setup to go back in time to the days when we didn't rely on electricity.

Refrigerator/freezer. In a long term SHTF situation, we won't use one. Have a propane fired RV refrigerator for short term. If long term, we'll go back to the days when people didn't have a refrigerator filled with stuff. Use the backporch in winter. Only cook what can be eaten before it spoils. Food storage - canned/dehydrated. That's just to mention a few.

Clothes washer. Washboard, washpot, and tubs. Would like a manual washing machine, but haven't found one that'll fit my budget yet.

Dishwasher. Dishpans. Just like washing dishes when camping and running water isn't available. One pan to wash, the other to rinse. I have a dishwasher. Drain hose is leaking and haven't bothered to fix it. Just stopped using it. The only time I ever even think about using it is after a big crowd comes for a meal. Or, when I'm washing canning jars.

Hot water. Just heat it, as needed, using whatever fuel source that's available. Using everthing from a kettle to a washpot over a fire to obtain the amount of hot water actually needed. A kettle will supply enough water to wash dishes or take a bath. During the summer, solar with something as simple as a clear soda bottle placed on the roof can give hot water. As can a box, lined with foil, filled with canning jars painted black, can supply a lot more.

Generator. Hand tools for the shop. Oil lamps & lanterns. Well buckets instead of a pump. Bicycle tire pump. Windup radio and shakeup flashlights.

Going back to the days before power poles littered the landscape has been our focus for a long time now. The more of that we can put into place first, the more we can move forward in time to get nearer to "convenience" we experience today.

In that scheme of things, a wood stove comes before a way to power a microwave.

Just my 2 cents this morning, for whatever pennies are worth today.

Lee

[nadja]

[QUOTE=NCLee;260582]Bob, you're absolutely right, IMHO.

The approach that we're using, to the extent we can, is to setup to go back in time to the days when we didn't rely on electricity.

Refrigerator/freezer. In a long term SHTF situation, we won't use one. Have a propane fired RV refrigerator for short term. If long term, we'll go back to the days when people didn't have a refrigerator filled with stuff. Use the backporch in winter. Only cook what can be eaten before it spoils. Food storage - canned/dehydrated. That's just to mention a few.

Clothes washer. Washboard, washpot, and tubs. Would like a manual washing machine, but haven't found one that'll fit my budget yet.

Dishwasher. Dishpans. Just like washing dishes when camping and running water isn't available. One pan to wash, the other to rinse. I have a dishwasher. Drain hose is leaking and haven't bothered to fix it. Just stopped using it. The only time I ever even think about using it is after a big crowd comes for a meal. Or, when I'm washing canning jars.

Hot water. Just heat it, as needed, using whatever fuel source that's available. Using everthing from a kettle to a washpot over a fire to obtain the amount of hot water actually needed. A kettle will supply enough water to wash dishes or take a bath. During the summer, solar with something as simple as a clear soda bottle placed on the roof can give hot water. As can a box, lined with foil, filled with canning jars painted black, can supply a lot more.

Generator. Hand tools for the shop. Oil lamps & lanterns. Well buckets instead of a pump. Bicycle tire pump. Windup radio and shakeup flashlights.

Going back to the days before power poles littered the landscape has been our focus for a long time now. The more of that we can put into place first, the more we can move forward in time to get nearer to "convenience" we experience today.

In that scheme of things, a wood stove comes before a way to power a microwave.

Just my 2 cents this morning, for whatever pennies are worth today.

Lee[/QUOTE

Thats a good start. But even a couple of solar panels, 4 batteries and a small inverter would give you lights and music etc at night. Sure wouldn't hurt to have a few small things. Espeically a small water pump !

[12vman]

The Idea of off grid is getting back to basics. To have the things you had before is going to cost you big money and to make that back will take a lot of years. The fun part for me going off grid is figuring ways to stop paying the MAN. I have paid him enough over the years. If that means to sacrifice and wash my own dishes, so be it.

Amen, brother. Simplicity is the best, even with an alternative energy system.. ;)

[let1672]

My philosophy for the whole situation is to try to simplify my life to the point where I can become self sustainable and still have the items I feel are important to me.

I don't mind paying "the man" for something provided I am getting a value for my money and I am not just falling for a fancy sales pitch.

I am trying to evaluate everything on importance to me and cost. I got my "kill a watt" meter yesterday and tried it out on my washing machine this morning. I was a little surprized, it only took 320 watt hours of energy to do a load of laundry. That is about 4 cents at my electric rates. I would have guessed it would have cost more. I may have to re-think my latest priority in reducing electric usage. I think running my washing machine as is a few times a week would be very do-able with solar even in my area.

I will check the refridgirator next...........

I agree about the wood burning stove is a huge priority........I just built and installed one that I can use to heat my house and cook with. I have hardly used my electric stove since, (only if I am in a big hurry and the wood is wet). A little better planning on my part will take care of that.

I am thinking about a hot water system using my wood burner now........thinking about adding some water tanks on the sides with a small pump. Probably have to reinforce the floor before that happens but I think it is do-able.

I enjoy living a simplier life and coming up with ideas to save energy but I also don't want to cut off my nose to spite my face.

Tim

[nadja]

Washing machines do not take as much power as most people think. The refer however will be another matter. Mine draws a little over 5.2 amps and that is a real power hog. You need to be checking amps on your appliances as that is what makes the difference on solar. Watts accumulated are fine I suppose, but your power coming in is rated in amps to your batteries from solar, wind and even your gennie back ups. Amps to start up some motors may exceed what your inverter can handle the load and actually shut down your system in order to protect your batteries or even the inverter itself.

[NCLee]

I enjoy living a simplier life and coming up with ideas to save energy but I also don't want to cut off my nose to spite my face.

Tim, that's a good observation.

For as long as we can, I plan to enjoy using the microwave and the other modern conveniences. Love a hot shower or a long soak in the tub. Grew up without out them, and can go back to those days, if needed. Not saying I'll "like it" and won't miss those things. It'll be harder to go back to the way it was, because I've experienced what it can be.

We've cut back quite a bit on our power usage and will do more of it. Turning off the stand alone freezer is one example. I've been cutting back on our reliance on it. It's to the point now that it's just a convenience. For example, there's half a deer in it waiting to be canned. When necessary, I'll eat/can/toss what's in it and unplug it.

Just my 2-cents.
Lee

[12vman]

I look at it as something to evolve into. Planning ahead will avoid some of the inconveniences of the transition if you consider all of the things you need or enjoy. Most luxury items can be possible, only in an alternative way.

It's hard to just jump into it with both feet and be as comfortable as you were in a conventional setting. Not many folks have the ability to totally copy their uncomplicated lifestyle from the start. Money is a huge factor for most. A huge downsizing is a must and one must somewhat "rough it" until things can be made better. This "building toward comfort" could take years!

I've been out here since '89 and I still don't have all of the things that I want. At first, my mind was all full of things that I wanted to do but I was really lost. I had no direction and I basically done things as I needed to do as I ran into issues. It was a learning curve, let me tell you.

I threw myself into this situation with no way of turning back. I had no internet, noone anywhere close that could understand anything that I was trying to do, and totally alone. I was a city boy that had read some Mother Earth News magazines with an electronics background. Mother Earth News gave me the incentive and my background has blessed me huge. The missing element was perseverance.
.

I lived in a 20' camper for 5 yrs. Hauled water in because I didn't have enough roof to catch much. Carried 2 big marine batteries around in my work van connected to the charging system so I could use them during the night. All I had was a 6" b/w tv, a car stereo, and a couple of small lights. Heated the camper and my bath water with a kerosene heater. Took baths in a big wash tub. It wasn't easy or fun. You don't know how many times that I looked into a mirror and asked myself.. "Why are you doing this?"

People around me thought that I was nuts! Many thought that I was hiding out from the law! (Which wasn't true) All kinds of rumors were going around! (Small town stuff..) I didn't care. I kinda felt like a celebrity.. LOL People stopping me on the street just to ask me.. "Why". Bets was put on me saying that I wouldn't last a year out here! (Showed them, didn't I..) Everyone knew that I was running my place on battery so I even ended up with the nickname.. 12volt.. Hence, my screen name..

I evolved from very meager beginings to what I have now. 960 sq. ft. of living area and snug as a bug. I've been here this long and still not finished. Many of my expectations of having this and having that has disappeared because I've found that being meager isn't so bad after all. I'm much better off now and I don't need a McMansion.

I have some goals to make yet. Like, build my system to the point of getting rid of the propane fridge and power something with solar. Design my water collection system to store more water so things don't get tight like they are right now. (I hate hauling water!) Get me a root cellar in somehow, ect, ect.. Not luxury things but necessities. The list may never end..

Yep.. I took the big dive. When I sold my house in the city, there was no turning back.. ;)

[grumble]

None of my business, 12v, but if an unknown rich uncle died and left you $10,000, what would you do with it?

[12vman]

None of my business, 12v, but if an unknown rich uncle died and left you $10,000, what would you do with it?

Fix my driveway and install a cistern..

[grumble]

Hmm, not what I expected you to say! I sure agree about water being way up there for a priority, though.

When my driveway got so sunken that even a little rain made it almost impassible, I got lucky and was able to rent a bobcat and dump truck from a neighbor, so hauling in fill dirt (from my own property) only cost me a few hundred bucks.

Anyhoo, thanks for the reply!

[12vman]

I've been fighting the water thing for years. Every winter is a challange. I usually get blessed with enough warm weather and some rain to get me through but it sure gets close at times. I haven't hauled water in for several years but it gets mighty scarey at times..

The drive is another challange. It needs some work and when the conditions get bad, I gotta use an alternative route.. Through a neighbor's field! He's cool with it because he knows how bad my drive is but.. Ya know..

What did you expect me to say? Just curious.. ;)

[grumble]

I thought you'd either go for a well or more electric power.

Obviously, I don't know anything about your place or what difficulties you put up with. But I do know that for me, as a bachelor, if I had to do without a microwave, I'd think the world had ended. <GGG>

[12vman]

Nope.. I'll never have a well.. Or, a septic tank. I love rain water and my bathroom waste makes great compost! 2 less things to worry about..

My drive is just shy of being 1/2 mile long and most of it is up a side of a hill. I mined sandrock from the property for the base and couldn't afford to put gravel down. The sandrock is holding very well but there's a few washouts that needs attention. I can avoid them when their isn't any snow on the ground and if I should slide down into one, I'm stuck big time. Not enough room to get around me and if I attempt to get my vehicle unstuck, coming down from the top would be a disaster. I've already had a tractor slide into my truck..

10k could get me enough panel to support a fridge but things work the way they are now. I have a chunk of money in my fridge and I could never sell it for what its worth. I'll just keep pickin' away and collect enough panel for what I want and sit on them. Save some more and get a fridge. Then I'll make the the change. Some newbee might need a propane fridge.. ;)

[grumble]

Yep, sure sounds like that driveway is a priority! Also sounds like it would be real easy to secure your place by blocking the drive if need be. That's a real advantage.

I bought a used propane fridge at an estate sale that's just sitting in my shop waiting for a need. When I first got it, I hooked it up to a small propane bottle, the size you use to run a propane stove or lantern. Overnight, it used the whole bottle. Not sure it will be practical to use it full time.

But, I'm getting WAAAY off topic, so better stop now.

[12vman]

Might be off topic but it gives insight..

[let1672]

Wow, you really took a big leap.........

I too am the electrical type and it has helped me also, I believe electric power will at least become more expensive and at most be intermittant to the point of being useless but while I still can I want to take baby steps.......but I commend you for having the guts to do it the way you did.

[nadja]

Nope.. I'll never have a well.. Or, a septic tank. I love rain water and my bathroom waste makes great compost! 2 less things to worry about..

My drive is just shy of being 1/2 mile long and most of it is up a side of a hill. I mined sandrock from the property for the base and couldn't afford to put gravel down. The sandrock is holding very well but there's a few washouts that needs attention. I can avoid them when their isn't any snow on the ground and if I should slide down into one, I'm stuck big time. Not enough room to get around me and if I attempt to get my vehicle unstuck, coming down from the top would be a disaster. I've already had a tractor slide into my truck..

10k could get me enough panel to support a fridge but things work the way they are now. I have a chunk of money in my fridge and I could never sell it for what its worth. I'll just keep pickin' away and collect enough panel for what I want and sit on them. Save some more and get a fridge. Then I'll make the the change. Some newbee might need a propane fridge.. ;)


12volt man. Take a look at these refers. The brand is "LG" and the new double door , both are refers are on top and they have a slide out large drawer on the bottom that is the freezer. They only draw 3.2 amps and that is impressive . They are about 23 cf and are a little on the pricy side which is about 1,300.00 and change. Hope this will help you out a little bit Nadja

[let1672]

A little more thought...........

I have downsized my electric usage by maybe 30 percent but so far feel like I have not given up anything............main thing I done was to turn down the water heater to 120 degrees from 150 degrees........had a huge bathtub and the girlfriend liked hot water...........after she moved out I turned it down and dropped electric bill by about 30 bucks.

another thing I done was to only wash clothes in cold water..........I occasionally hear people saying you need hot water to kill the mites but so far after about a year haven't noticed any difference. (unless that is why the girlfriend left, ha)

another thing I done was to quit using the clothes dryer........built a clothes line and think it is the greatest thing in the world........I wash three loads or so and hang them up immediatly........then take them down at my leasure......I am not sitting around waitting for one load of clothes to dry to put in another load, etc. Used to be a all day job, now just a few hours in the morning while I am drinking my coffee.............and even when I take them down I just take a bunch of hangers to the clothes line and they are already right side out, etc and from there to the closet...........

changed my lights to CFL's.........not quite the same light but still acceptable.....In some areas I even prefer the CFL's, in the bathroom while shaving the light seems whiter more clinical. I plan on changing to LED when the price comes down.

Checked the large screen TV's power usage today and it uses 170 watts per hour. I was thinking on downsizing that but I have a 19 inch LCD TV and the label on the back says it uses 100 watts so right now doesn't seem worth the effort. Unless something drastic happens I'll wait until it dies if natural causes to switch...........

I heat with an outdoor woodburner which uses the blower of my propane furnace but heat wise I do not notice a difference from the propane.......other than I have more money in my pocket and a few more sore muscles..............

and as I said I just installed a indoor cookstove/woodburner so I can reduce the usage of my electric range and oven and have some backup heat that requires no electric..........still learning to cook with it, not quite as easy as you would think but having fun learning. It is good t o listen to stories from my mother and older neighbors about how they used to cook on wood stoves........

anyway I know I am ranting but I enjoy talking about this kind of stuff.........

[let1672]

Oh yea, one other thing

it's cool you tied some extra batteries to your car so you could charge them while driving..........I thought of doing that also. I guess you use a little more gas due to the increased load on your alternator and the increased weight but seems to be worth the trade off if you have no other means of charging them.

I also thought of trying to use the exhaust heat from your car to heat some type of substance (maybe salt or something) then transfer the heat to heat your hot water........seems a shame to just let that heat go to waste...........would require you hooking up a couple hoses or something when you got home but I figured with quick disconnects or something....................there I go again. ha

[Fortyfour]

Without reading many of the replies I'll take a stab at this.

I live offgrid. Here in W Washington sun isn't our friend either. So I've been running lights, computer, TV, coffee pot, etc off an EU2000i genny. But the big stuff runs off propane. Our refrigerator, kitchen range and tankless water heater, all of which are every households HUNGRIEST things all run from propane.

We heat with a wood cook so that takes no power either. Soon I plan to start putting up a few solar panels and a micro-hydro system.

[DavidOH]

Thank you for your response.........you have really got me thinking.

I looked up the Staber washing machines and it appears they seem like a regular washing maching with different controls........
thanks for the info.

Tim

Staber is no ordinary top loading washing machine. It is a Horizontal axis.
It is a tumbler washer similar to the front loaders, but it loads from the top.
It has no front door gasket to leak!

http://www.staber.com/washingmachines

[ohara1000]

Tim
Have you erer considered a wringer washer? It will do all the things you suggested in an earlier post. Let the load soak longer plus wring out the excess water etc.. Just a thought but I don't know how much energy it will consume.

[Txanne]

I lived off grid for 10 years--really lived off grid.

A dishwasher?

If it would have been possible I would put my energy and thoughts into refrigeration--Period.

I had a tiny battery powered tv and a boombox radio that took 8-D cell batteries--yrs down the road I had a cell phone---chg'd in my truck.


I am always thrilled to read off-grid experiences--BUT---off grid is off grid--sounds like you have all the energy you need and are looking for ways to make it.

Dont bring the compilcations of the grid life with you---really muddies the waters for a simplier life.

But from an old off gridder--The best of luck and may your wood always be dry

txanne