root cellar in a barn

[land steward]

I want to build a large root cellar for crops and as a pantry for storing grains, canned dried food etc. The cellar has to be 2 rooms, the colder of these being for garden veggies.

Our land is wet so I cannot dig down far enough. I am going to build a barn in the spring. I was wondering why I couldnt build one of the box stalls out of concrete with a double door and store my food that way. A local farmer here said he used to just pack some of his root crops in hay in the back corner of the barn for the winter. Any ideas on this.

[grumble]

I don't know much about your climate, but isn't that how they used to store ice in the winter to keep it through the summer? Seems to me the main thing you'd miss out on would be the air circulation needed in a "regular" root cellar. Maybe a room made of hay bales?

[land steward]

yes they used to store ice in sawdust and hay. It would last along time. I could bury a line underground to control the temperature and humidity I guess. Just trying to brain storm here.

[bacpacker1513]

Interesting post. I will keep up with this thread to see how it goes. I am wanting to do something for a root cellar. It gets pretty warm here and typically is in the 40's thru the winter, except during cold spells. This winter has been colder than normal. Global warming I guess.
I would expect hay bales would insulate really well, Keeping humidity up is what I would think would be the hard part.

[land steward]

Interesting post. I will keep up with this thread to see how it goes. I am wanting to do something for a root cellar. It gets pretty warm here and typically is in the 40's thru the winter, except during cold spells. This winter has been colder than normal. Global warming I guess.
I would expect hay bales would insulate really well, Keeping humidity up is what I would think would be the hard part.

Here is my two cents regarding a root cellar. I have done a bit of research on this. A root cellar needs 3 rooms! One is for your freezers. Powering your freezers in a root cellar uses alot less power. Making it a different room means you can vent with the outside air in the winter. They will freeze in the winter months here in Canada. The second room and the largest is for your pantry. canned foods, dried foods, fruit storage, canning and whatever else you require. Basically a storage room. The last room is separated by another concrete wall. This is for your root crops. It is accessed by two doors to keep the temperature down. This is strictly for veggies. Even in Canadian winters our root cellars do not get low enough temps to store food well. So southern temps in the lower 48 are more complicated. Even here people slide a culvert through the center of the root cellar. It is welded shut on the bottom. In the winter ice is slid down filling the culvert. It stays frozen throughout the early summer. This drop in temperature will see your garden crops sustained longer. Anyway hope this makes sense to you prepared people out there.

[bookwormom]

If you have nothing else, using a stall to store root crops is a very good idea, you do not have to make a room, just like a bin made of strawbales and cover it with a sheet of plywood and more hay/straw, and of course you need a good barncat. we have a cellar with two rooms built into the hillside, underneath a small workshop. In the front room we keep the freezer and canned goods, in the back room potatoes and more canned goods. You should not keep apples and potatoes in the same room, as apples give off a gas that stimulates sprouting in potatoes. we keep apples in a walk in closet and since we do not heat bedrooms the arkansas black I have stored there are still doing well, they have kept until April. How big a root cellar do you need? are you going to store only for human consumption? Where I grew up we had a big root cellar under the house (stonewalls) and it was totally below ground, with a chute to get the root crops down. It held potates, rutabagas, mangels and turnips. Plus some beets and carrots. Rutabagas, magels and turnips were fed to the cows as additional winter feed. It was accessable through a trapdoor in the floor of the big pantry behind the kitchen. In the old days, houses were planned with things like that in mind. The Kitchen/ living quarter faced South west, and the pantry Northwest, some bermed with Earth. If I was just keeping taters and root crops for the family and could not have a real cellar, I would just go with strawbales. You will have trouble with things freezing inside a concrete structure above ground. Even here in Ky I have had the sheep's drinking water freeze on occasion in their stall within a block building. I would not trust an above ground concrete room. Just mho. How cold does it get in your neck of the woods?

[land steward]

If you have nothing else, using a stall to store root crops is a very good idea, you do not have to make a room, just like a bin made of strawbales and cover it with a sheet of plywood and more hay/straw, and of course you need a good barncat. we have a cellar with two rooms built into the hillside, underneath a small workshop. In the front room we keep the freezer and canned goods, in the back room potatoes and more canned goods. You should not keep apples and potatoes in the same room, as apples give off a gas that stimulates sprouting in potatoes. we keep apples in a walk in closet and since we do not heat bedrooms the arkansas black I have stored there are still doing well, they have kept until April. How big a root cellar do you need? are you going to store only for human consumption? Where I grew up we had a big root cellar under the house (stonewalls) and it was totally below ground, with a chute to get the root crops down. It held potates, rutabagas, mangels and turnips. Plus some beets and carrots. Rutabagas, magels and turnips were fed to the cows as additional winter feed. It was accessable through a trapdoor in the floor of the big pantry behind the kitchen. In the old days, houses were planned with things like that in mind. The Kitchen/ living quarter faced South west, and the pantry Northwest, some bermed with Earth. If I was just keeping taters and root crops for the family and could not have a real cellar, I would just go with strawbales. You will have trouble with things freezing inside a concrete structure above ground. Even here in Ky I have had the sheep's drinking water freeze on occasion in their stall within a block building. I would not trust an above ground concrete room. Just mho. How cold does it get in your neck of the woods?

Thanks for this. Very helpful. I was planning on having enough root crops for a year. 300 pounds of potatoes, carrots, squash, beets etc. This might be a bit much for the two of us but with company kids coming over etc this is what I am aiming for. Any suggestions.

The barn will have 12 x 12 stalls so I was planning on using one of these. probably on the darkest side of the barn with no sunlight. I was going to divide the room or stall in two sections. The first door opened up into a pantry. The second door against the outside wall of the barn would be my root cellar. I will have to figure out what size of pipe to run under the floor for an outside vent. The room will probably need its own ceiling as well with lots of insulation.

Our temperatures here stay 5 degrees above and below freezing. It can get colder but only for a couple weeks. It usually hovers around 0. Your right about the cat idea. Hopefully I can build this so it is rodent proof. Thats why I was thinking about insulated concrete blocks. I think my 3 freezers will stay in the barn as well. Might sound dumb but I think they will use less power kept in the shade
Thanks for everyones assistance with this. Creative building.

[Wyobuckaroo]

Now you've got me thinking..................... (not always a good thing-ha)

Underground isn't a good option for me also. I built a 8'x8' outdoor storage shed this last summer on skids, on the cheap.

Am thinking why couldn't I do the same for a "walk in" cooler/storage in a tractor shed ?

It could be flat top, or very close to that, not the steep snow roof I used outdoors. Insulate with Styrofoam and liquid foam, in side and out, including door.

One tractor shed has a dirt floor. The other concrete, so thinking a set of rigid, steel "caster wheel" type wheels on the far end on a low dolly set up. This will let the far end roll 1/2" above the concrete and use the tractor loader to raise the front end to move...
Also keep the whole structure low/narrow enough to move in and out of the door, if necessary.

Also thinking........ I read on a forum somewhere, someone got an old small walk in cooler free. Presume it was from a demolition or remodel job. Don't have any idea what kind, or if any, floor was with that.

Anyone with any experience, ideas ?
Or have I had too much coffee this morning ?
Wyo

[bookwormom]

??Our temperatures here stay 5 degrees above and below freezing. It can get colder but only for a couple weeks. It usually hovers around 0.

You talking Celsius here I take it. that is mild winter weather. sounds like Ky..

[oldtimer]

The purpose of below ground root cellar storage is that the soil is more constant and consistent temperature than the air.

In this country, there are a number of root cellars made above ground as they're it wet places but root cellars were needed to protect from tornadoes as well as food storage. If you're ground is wet, I would recommend constructing your cellar as you would a below ground cellar but build a mound of dirt over it in order that you can keep it warm enough in the winter and cool enough in the summer and you can also maintain that essentical moisture that is provided by a real root cellar that is so essential to the storage of root crops.

[land steward]

??Our temperatures here stay 5 degrees above and below freezing. It can get colder but only for a couple weeks. It usually hovers around 0.

You talking Celsius here I take it. that is mild winter weather. sounds like Ky..

Yes this is in Celsius. Most of the time it is just above zero. We have periods of milder temps and some cold snaps. We are just now getting the cold snap that is heading south into the US. Looks like the WEATHER is going to get really bad in parts of the US.

[land steward]

The purpose of below ground root cellar storage is that the soil is more constant and consistent temperature than the air.

In this country, there are a number of root cellars made above ground as they're it wet places but root cellars were needed to protect from tornadoes as well as food storage. If you're ground is wet, I would recommend constructing your cellar as you would a below ground cellar but build a mound of dirt over it in order that you can keep it warm enough in the winter and cool enough in the summer and you can also maintain that essentical moisture that is provided by a real root cellar that is so essential to the storage of root crops.

Yes I wish I could bury a root cellar. I have considered buying a steel cargo container. Supporting the sides and roof with beams or railroad ties then burying the whole thing. Just run a air intake under it before hand. I could divide the container into two rooms. The first for a pantry and stored fruit. The second for root crops. That might work okay. Thanks for your help here folks. I like brain storming.

[Ironclad]

Yes I wish I could bury a root cellar. I have considered buying a steel cargo container. Supporting the sides and roof with beams or railroad ties then burying the whole thing. Just run a air intake under it before hand. I could divide the container into two rooms. The first for a pantry and stored fruit. The second for root crops. That might work okay. Thanks for your help here folks. I like brain storming.

Mr LandSteward, These Shipping Containers are wonderful things, with many uses, even though priced a little too expensive, IMO. Your idea sounds great. But...a word to the wise..please do some research and be carefull, cus the wood floors of these things are commonly impregnated with "insecticides/poisons"... that need to be eradicated / sealed up. A definate concern if they're used for food storage?

[Wyobuckaroo]

Have heard of the "cargo container" idea before.
The thought at that time was putting it into a hillside. "Doable" I imagine, but think your entrance would have to be like it is to an igloo. That being a shaft/walkway that will allow the front of the structure to be covered with earth deeply enough to insulate that area as needed.

For a cargo container, good drainage, ventilation, foam sheet insulation all around, roof support, snorkel entrance, adequate cover depth for weather.

Good luck
Wyo

[land steward]

Mr LandSteward, These Shipping Containers are wonderful things, with many uses, even though priced a little too expensive, IMO. Your idea sounds great. But...a word to the wise..please do some research and be carefull, cus the wood floors of these things are commonly impregnated with "insecticides/poisons"... that need to be eradicated / sealed up. A definate concern if they're used for food storage?

Yes I have heard stories about the floors being treated. I suppose one advantage when putting a container inside a barn is to keep rodents out. It might just be easier to build it out of concrete blocks. Regardless of the root cellar idea a lot of farms acreages have a container. Great place to lock up tools etc. I will keep looking into this. All your comments are very helpful.

[oldtimer]

Thing to consider . . . How long do you want this cellar to last? A person usually gets what they pay for. We built ours out of cinder block that we bough cheap because they were seconds. We covered the mound with day lilies. They hold the soil in place and they look nice too.