HELP - The unacceptable has happened

[stickbowhntr]

Well I discovered today that my "GUN" room [ I am a bow guy but have a few guns - just none in house but for my CCW ones right now] had been broken into upon return from getting my wifes vehicle out of snowbound ditch. Long story I won't bore you with. My question has NOW BECOME, What M1911 platforms accept lazors and lights? I see so many tac 9's and 40's etc that do. I am NO Longer looking for CCW - Will use what I have but form home and vehicle want the firepower of a 45ACP at my side....drugs bad here and we live in country. What 45's would fit my bill? I also figure if my truck or bed frame carries the load a double stack would be even better than single. What are you suggestions and WHY . THank you- pray it does not happen to you.

[Teg]

You can put Crimson Trace laser grips on just about any 1911, there are others with rails but if you want simple then Crimson Trace will likely be your best bet. If you want to look at something other than a 1911, take a look at the Sig P220, one of my favorites.

http://www.crimsontrace.com/Home/Products/1911/tabid/185/Default.aspx

[squeaky]

I'm very sorry this has happened to you, I hope you were insured.

[stickbowhntr]

THAT Sig, what my buddy from the U.K. keeps telling me ....just not sure I like the looks and feel of one . I did look at some sigs ,Glocks and RIA 45's Saturday .

[Teg]

I like the Sig but each person has a feel they like, I also have a Rock Island Armory stock 1911 that I bought over at Centerfiresystems and they are fine shooting weapons straight out of the box. I have a Glock 21 that shoots nicely as well, I just don't carry it much these days.

http://www.centerfiresystems.com/1911.aspx

You can also do a bit of research on the 1911 forums.

http://forum.m1911.org/forums.php

[stickbowhntr]

Thanks for the links - this stinks. Not bad enough I have been out of work 19 months now too. Lots issues and stress , this is no help..L.O.L.

[Teg]

Thanks for the links - this stinks. Not bad enough I have been out of work 19 months now too. Lots issues and stress , this is no help..L.O.L.

I'll bet, hope you get a good deal and that you don't have any further trouble.

[gunsmoke]

I'm very sorry for your troubles.

This is just my personal opinion for well over 30 years I competed and carried box stock Colt Gold Cups. When Crimson TraceLaser Grips came to be i bought a pair for the brace of GOLD CUPS that I packed. Today I carry a brace of Para Ord LDAs and wish Ceimson trace made grops but they don't so they are stoked with LaserMax. My Colt General Officers Models that take turns riding shotgun in the S O B wear Crimson Trace.

I don't worry about lights on hanguns except for a couple of special purpose handguns that are not really ideal for Conceealed Carry.

I jave found the Crimson Trace to be the best and most easily intutivly integrated into my shooting style. They are rugged, high quality and the company takes their business the use of their products and their customer's confidence and reliance on them VERY VERY SERIOUSLY.

When Crimson Trace intro'd their picatinny mhangersma couple years ago I replaced all the lasers I had on long guns with their products.

Best of luck and STAY SAFE!

[ktm rider]

I may be stating the obvious here but hopefully you reported this to the authorities.
You didn't specify, but if your firearms were stolen you really need to report that so you don't possibly get jammed up if that firearm is used for evil instead of good down he road.

[Ironclad]

Ninety-somethin percent of all burglaries are committed by "neighbors", and thats a fact. (I read it on the internet, so it must be true):confused:
They know your schedule; when youre home and when youre not. And if youre currently unemployed and have no work-schedule, then they notice when you leave the house, to do something like get your wifes car out of a ditch. Friends and relatives cant be ignored either. Ask yourself... did you or your wife talk to "anyone" about the stranded car? Did anyone know you were heading out? Dang Thieves... Hate Em!!

M-1911 .45's are my personal standard. Because I'm a poor man I got a Rock Island for very little money and then surprised what a good gun it is.
I spent a little more money for my Springfield Armory and it is just fantastic. I got other 45's but theyre trash stovepipe specials so I wont mention them. But if I was a rich man, I would buy some Colts!!

[docsoos]

Sorry to hear of the theft, stickbowhntr; happened to me in '98; they got $12K worth of guns from me. Insurance paid for 'em (between homeowners and NRA insurance), but were hard to replace some. Now have 5 German Shepherds, a full video surveillance and alarm system, etc.

Sad to live in the country, and have to fortress yourself like ya live in the big city, but drugs are bad here, too; meth, mostly, and they don't care WHERE they get their money for the next fix, I guess. It'll cost 'em dearly if they try here again, and they WILL be caught and/or shot.

As for the 1911's, as others have said, there are a boatload of 'em out there. My personal favorites are Colts (BIG $$$), but a few years back, I bought a Auto-Ordnance World War II Model 1911, parkerized frame, no-frills .45, and it's been one of my best 1911's right out of the box (with 230-grain hardball ammo). Think I paid about $400 for it, and like I said, worked great after 100 rounds or so of "break-in" ammo. Here's a link to the Auto-Ord website:

http://www.auto-ordnance.com/PA-1AO_pkz.html

Lotta "Internet Commandos" (a few on this forum, too) have a LOT of bad things to say about Auto-Ord 1911's, and Rock Island 1911's, too. A buddy of mine has a Rock Island 1911 that has NEVER failed him, even when he had to draw quickly and shoot a wild Rottweiler that was attacking him. Laid that sucker down with one shot of 230-grain hardball. These companies may have had some quality issues, but I've never personally experienced them. Like any other tool, if you READ THE INSTRUCTIONS that you get with it, follow their recommendations for break-in and basic maintenance, that weapon will outlast you, if taken care of. Personally, I'd rather spend $400-$500 for a "working gun", then $1000-$1500 for a Colt. I also bought a Remington 1911R1 last year that has been a dandy addition to my 1911 stable, $600 out the door:

http://www.1911r1.com/

Only change I made to the Auto-Ord and the Remington was replace the factory magazines with Wilson Combat mags; bone-stock, otherwise, and 100% reliable.

Crimson Trace sells laser grips for any 1911, but I've never liked the lazer grips myself; personal preference. I practiced a LOT of "point shooting", which has served me well over the years, and almost as accurate as a lazer, if done properly.

Again, sorry for the loss, take the steps to assure it don't happen again.

DocSoos

[Teg]

The Rock Islands are very solid guns and they are made using the original Colt dies and machinery that were sent to the PI back in the day, the only issue I have heard recently is with the Tactical version and that is just a thing with the Ambidextrous safety sometimes being pinned in too tight. Very fond of RI though, zero issues, and the price is hard to beat these days. Do some looking around check the forums out there, handle some actual guns and filter out the haters you'll get some good information. :)

[Ironclad]

...I practiced a LOT of "point shooting", which has served me well over the years, and almost as accurate as a lazer, if done properly.
DocSoos

Im sorry to interrupt this thread of thought, but I just wanted to give a heads up and a thank you and a Kudos to you... to Mr Docsoos.

He makes issue about... POINT SHOOTING

God Bless him for knowing what he is talking about!! And that's a fact. He just might save your life; with his point of view. If you are interested?

A real actual gunfight, for those of you who have not really been there, is filled with piss running down your legs; too much addrenaline that your body and your mind just cant handle; the knees will be trembling; and probably parts of your body will be bleeding from innacurate shots from the bad guy; as he is trying his best to kill you...

POINT SHOOTING... is something that can save your life!! And that's a fact.

On the other hand... you might listen to any one of those so-called professional instructors who tell you over and over... "I AM A VET". The worst crapp in the world is... all the bullshit instuctions from pseudo-know-it-alls... crew cut... former military assholes... pretend war veterans dressed in camoflauge... strutting their stuff about this or that and... you know what? The next time you run into "a veteran"... just ask him this!!

"Are you a COMBAT veteran?... or were you just one of those "OTHER" veterans, who never faced a hot bullet? Did you just push paper? Did you just do logistics on a computer? Were you in the Navy doing nothing more than painting bulkheads?? Did you just do backup bullshit.....WELL, DONT COME HOME AND START UP YOUR PISSANT PITY-PARTY WITH ME YOU SORRY WORTHLESS AHOLE!! I got you freaking "Pretend-Vets" figured out!!

There's only a small percentage of them, that did actual face to face; toe to toe; actual front line COMBAT!! AND THAT'S A FACT. The rest of them are trying to get their sympathy, off the backs of their brothers; their brothers who really do deserve some sympathy. The rest of those "players"... they need to be identified and reemed... reemed hard and deep

I have no idea how I got carried away here?? Off the point?? Im sorry about that. (Jeez... what is wrong with my mind??)... OH YEA, NOW I REMEMBER... THIS IS JUST A HOW YOU DOO TO ALL THE BULLSHIT BROTHERS OF MINE, WHO CAME HOME FROM VIET NAM...ALL MESSED UP IN THE HEAD... TELLING ME... "Give me this, give me that, I deserve it cus I am a Hero, a Vet... give me your job, give me your girlfriend, give me your money, give me a beer, give me a cigarrette, give me, give me...and oh yea... do you have any drugs??)

War is hell; and only the lucky ones don't come home.
--Ironclad

[docsoos]

Thanks for the compliment, Ironclad. Just wanted to bring up a point to stickbowhntr that he may or may not know about, that would preclude the use of any laser or fancy "heads-up" sight.

An old Vietnam COMBAT Vet I REALLY looked up to (my D.I. in Basic training, three tours) took me under his wing, and showed me how to "point shoot", with his personal Colt .45 Auto, at a range at Fort Leonard Wood, on one of my "Sunday's Off". I learned more in that short afternoon from that soldier than I've learned since, about combat pistol shooting. He was hard on me, but he KNEW I wanted to learn, and I respected his experience and authority. While the other guys were boozing it up at the enlisted man's club that afternoon, myself and another squad leader volunteered to be trained by this man, on HIS day off, to teach us how to use the 1911 effectively in combat. His complaint was that the Army should train ALL basic trainee's in the use of the 1911, but at that time (1978), they saved that for Advanced Infantry School, or OCS candidates. I guess now they train the young ground-pounders in a lot more weapons systems than they trained us for in peacetime, but I think I'd REALLY hate the M9 (9mm) versus the old 1911 .45 Auto.

He was a Soldier's Soldier, and may God Rest His Soul. Rest Easy, Staff Sergeant Kleindienst. You made a better soldier out of me....Many Thanks.

DocSoos

[stickbowhntr]

I may be stating the obvious here but hopefully you reported this to the authorities.
You didn't specify, but if your firearms were stolen you really need to report that so you don't possibly get jammed up if that firearm is used for evil instead of good down he road.

Like I said I didnt want to bore you with long story. You asked...lol...Yes the state ploice were called, they told me since NO forced entry from outside the house there is not a lot since no guns stolen they will do at present except make a phone report. Now , they feel it was somebody who as stated knew us or family etc as either had a key or found a n easy way in . Should have kicked down the outside door myself. They tell me if family not much they can do as a civil matter if was someone living in the house or family that has normall access and it sounds like thats the ? Our approach from the ditch could be observed on return for over a half mile away from bedroom next to the "GUN" room and since second story very visable view down the road.I was o pissed that I didnt even notice any tracks in snow and by time I realized what had happend , maybe an hour after our return there had been straffic in drive. Mail making package del and gas guy etc. As I said the place was disturbed but not real toss so i figure we just missed them. I did see and never gave a thought of a vehicle going up the road after my house as we arrived but paid no real notice...just too wore down after waiting 9 hours for wife to get home nite before as she was snowbound on state highway for 9 hours on her way home from work[a normal 30 min drive]..so my stress through the roof.

[Mike LI]

Why do you carry a 45?
Cuz they don't make a 46. ;)

[gunsmoke]

Why do you carry a 45?
Cuz they don't make a 46. ;)

During the 2004 Presidential re-election camapign President Bush was making a hometown visit in TX. At a luncheon hosted by the Republican Womwn's Club the local Sheriff who was invited was approached by one of the RWCs more prominent members and asked the Sheriff why he was carrying his .45 Auto at the event, "Do you expect trouble?" she asked. To which the Sheriff replied, "Why no ma'am, if I was expecting trounle I'd be carrying my rifle"

[Teg]

but I think I'd REALLY hate the M9 (9mm) versus the old 1911 .45 Auto.

Not fond of the M9 personally, I have seen the NATO Ball rounds consistently go through and through a body, without hardly slowing them down, of course this can happen with any round but I have seen it more often with the 9mm NATO Ball ammo, since that is what we carried for most of my career in the AF. As was discussed in another thread around here, after a few stateside incidents like the ones I mentioned above the AF switched to hollowpoints in the 9mm, but only for garrison duty.

Before anyone gets excited about Ball versus Hollow Point, I am just reporting an observation, not preaching gospel. :)

[Mike LI]

During the 2004 Presidential re-election camapign President Bush was making a hometown visit in TX. At a luncheon hosted by the Republican Womwn's Club the local Sheriff who was invited was approached by one of the RWCs more prominent members and asked the Sheriff why he was carrying his .45 Auto at the event, "Do you expect trouble?" she asked. To which the Sheriff replied, "Why no ma'am, if I was expecting trounle I'd be carrying my rifle"

Think it was the same guy I quoted. May have been a Tx Ranger.

[farmerj]

save the money on a laser and spend it on ammo.

Save the money on a rail mount flash light and spend it on ammo.

You will become "blind" to a laser when you have to use it. Not to mention, Murphy will show up when you do need it.

A Laser and a mounted flash light are targets. They show the bad guy where you are.

At least with an unmounted flashlight, you can set it down and side step away in the dark as they fixate on the light.;) Worse case, toss it at them to disrupt what they are doing to give yourself that extra half second of protection.

Learn how to point shoot.

And by all means. Next time you go to the range, get someone to run a Tueller drill with you sometime.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhDEION_FnY&feature=related

Couple thoughts on hollow point ammo for those folks from northern climates.

Due to the heavier clothing/coats that are worn, hollow points get filled with material. As a result, they act more like a FMJ than a hollow point.
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot8.htm

Having shot both the 1911 and the M9/92FS, my choice will still be the M9/92FS. It works for me, so I stick with it.

[Theyeti]

I have always wondered why point shooting or instinctive shooting is not presented as the preferred method? Especially with pistols. Most have a a sight too small to aquire accurately in high stress situations where seconds count. Sure, you could spend hours and dollars on the skills and equipment and maybe become 'that' good.

Who has that time or money but playboys? I sure don't between family, work, home, sports and events for my kids, time spent with my wife. Sure as hell don't have the money. I do drills, with a dry pistol where I incorprate drawing and pointing. I check the sights to see if I'm on and it has paid off both in money spent and results at the range. I fairly consistently shoot 2-3" center mass on silhouette(like 6 out of 8) at 25ft. All are on paper, with rarely a wingshot.

Agreed, instinctive point shooting is really where it's at.

[farmerj]

what most are forgetting is there is a difference between bulls-eye shooting and defensive shooting.

Minute of angle is a whole lot different that Minute of bad guy.

Just curious, but when was the last time a bunch of folks here even shot at at target that was less than arms reach away from them?

Are you familiar with what the concussion will feel like from that close? The sound of the report?

How many here know how to shoot from a retention position? How many know what a retention position is?

I can't even find a video on youtube of retention shooting that's worth sharing.

[stickbowhntr]

To me the BEST way to explain retention is like shooting from the hip. With the pistol JUST clear of thge holster and as your arm starts to goto 90 and about the second step in comming to what most would do at arms length.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYI-hz6KdqE
about as good as I can find there

[farmerj]

I had seen that one and don't agree.

It's very poor form to have the weapon floating in space like that.

I don't have a video to go with it, so I will try to explain the best I can.

Index, has 4 positions.

Position 1:
strong Hand on grip, weapon holstered.

Postition 2:
Draw weapon, raise to natural position with thumb and hand still in contact with chest. Rotate elbow so weapon points directly forward keeping elbow straight back.
Support hand on center of chest.

Position 3:
Support hand moves to weapon and provides support to strong hand and weapon. Weapon/hand still touching chest

Position 4:
Push weapon forward to full extention of arms.

Position 2 & 3 allow you to have an indexed position with the firearm using your body as the index and still allow you to shoot aimed fire if need be. Something impossible to do if the weapon is out in space.

It also provides you with a means of protecting the weapon and not allowing someone to disarm you. Something very easy to accomplish if you hold your weapon out in space.

[MooseToo]

To me the BEST way to explain retention is like shooting from the hip. With the pistol JUST clear of thge holster and as your arm starts to goto 90 and about the second step in comming to what most would do at arms length.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYI-hz6KdqE
about as good as I can find there

and this is why i stopped swapping the first two rounds in my revolver from the routine snake-shot to hollow-point every fall after the snakes flew south - i figured those first two rounds fired while going from belt-level up to an aiming position would be more effective if the impact spread was three or four inches instead of .357 inches -

[docsoos]

Here's some quick shooting:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wl7MgbLXUBE

Yeah, I know, it's single-action fanning, but Bob is "Da Poop" when it comes to speed/point shooting. :D

DocSoos

[stickbowhntr]

Here is a link for some good info on home defense shooting with a carbine
http://762precision.wordpress.com/articles/the-home-defense-carbine/

[Ironclad]

Before this thread thing fades away... I just want to add one thing here...one more thought.

It is sad, but it is a fact... if you are a newcomer and you move to the country... you best get ready to have your house burglarized, by some of the puke teenagers who are your neighbors. That's just the way it is in the country. I am an old country guy. I know what Im talking about.

There is a sad situation in the country... there are no jobs for the country boys to do... and too many of them just go around stealing horses and cattle and burglarizing houses... especially the houses of the "newcomers".
And that's a fact.

Fill 'em full of lead!! That's my attitude. Dang stupid kids. Kill 'em Dead...and then when the local Sheriff and their parents come around pissing and moaning about how their sweet young children were wonderful and played football for the local high school and all that crud... just remind them this... there is a moral vacuum out in the country... too many people allow their kids to get away with committing crimes...and the Sheriffs Dept usually just turns a blind eye to it. That's a fact. And it sucks.
--Ironclad

[docsoos]

Yeah, that stuff happens out in the country around here, too....but when my house was burglarized back in 2000 (along with 27 other homes in the area in a three-week period), it was later determined that illegal Mexicans from a neighboring town were committing these crimes. One of them that was working heavy equipment cutting new roads for a neighborhood being built across the road from me, was watching the comings and goings of the residents here, and when we all left for work in the morning, he'd call his buddies, and nail your house. ALL the burglaries occurred from 8 AM to 11 AM, broad daylight.

I discovered that my house was broken into at 7 that night, when I returned from work. When the State Police showed up at my house 45 minutes after my call to them, as they investigated (dusting for prints, etc.), they said that there had been DOZENS of break-ins in my area in the last few weeks. I said we hadn't heard a thing about that. They then told me that they had asked the local newspaper NOT to print anything about it, so that they might catch them in the act. I got REALLY PISSED then, and told them that maybe had we'd known this was going on, we might have been on a higher alert status.

The burglaries stopped when one of my neighbors a half-mile down the road cut two Mexicans quite literally IN HALF with a Remington 1100, 3" Mag 00 Buck, point-blank range, as they broke into his house. They didn't expect anyone home, but his son had taken his truck that day, so their lookout said it was clear. The apartment that they had rented in the neighboring town was CRAMMED with stolen guns, video game consoles, DVD players, cash, etc. when the KSP indentified them, and searched their apartment.

Now that my house has a full monitored alarm system, video surveillance I can monitor from any computer or my phone, three aggressive German Shepherds, and someone being in my house 24/7, I feel a little more secure. But those animals that burglarized us forced me to spend a LOT of money and time to protect what I have worked HARD for the last 30 years. I hope they are enjoying an EXCRUTIATING time in whatever Hell your religious beliefs hold.

BTW....I bought my neighbor down the road an EXPENSIVE bottle of the finest Bourbon, and a FRESH box of 00 Buck, as a small thanks for stopping this crime wave....Just wish it would have been ME that caught them in MY house.....

DocSoos

[stickbowhntr]

Doc..if you would not mind[and I as OP don't] would you tell us what systems you looked into for surverlence? i would appreciate that. Drugs here are BAd and I don't know who if anybody I can trust....Thanks

Bill

[farmerj]

I forget where I get led on to this, but it doesn't look too bad.

http://www.homesecuritystore.com/

[stickbowhntr]

thats a good looking site. Thank you...

[docsoos]

Doc..if you would not mind[and I as OP don't] would you tell us what systems you looked into for surverlence? i would appreciate that. Drugs here are BAd and I don't know who if anybody I can trust....Thanks

Bill

http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=11624288

DocSoos

[stickbowhntr]

Thanks. The more I talk to folks here the more i think I should invest and start selling the units for Video not just the Brinks home get it monitored systems. Years ago when I first opened my business there was a system that I should have checked out. I could sell to those with hunt camps and let them moniter themselves....I think today would sell not to have to pay monitoriong fees - just do your self. NOT quite this system but this for home ... sad part --WELL THAT WE HAVE TO !

[Ironclad]

my house was burglarized by illegal Mexicans. One of them was working heavy equipment cutting new roads for a neighborhood being built across the road from me.
One of my neighbors cut two Mexicans quite literally IN HALF with a Remington 1100, 3" Mag 00 Buck, point-blank range, as they broke into his house... those animals. I bought my neighbor down the road an EXPENSIVE bottle of the finest Bourbon, and a FRESH box of 00 Buck, as a small thanks for stopping this crime wave... DocSoos

Mr Docsoos,
Good on You; and very good on your neighbor!! Wish I knew who your neighbor was... I'd send him whiskey/cigars/ammo myself.
Danged Illegal Alien already had an illegal wage earning job; and that wasnt enough for him?? Because of his "basic nature"... being a low life, third world, stupid animal... he just couldnt help himself. He already had a paycheck, but He just had to have more!? He just had to steal more. Stupid Animal !!!

This is one of the most important reasons for the 2nd Amendment. This is one of the most important reasons that Americans need to remain "armed". We have been invaded by millions of Mexicans. And most of them are third-world, stupid, low-life, puke, idiot animals. A twelve guage shotgun really is the best way to deal with most of them. And that's a fact.
--Ironclad

[Ironclad]

my house was burglarized by illegal Mexicans. One of them was working heavy equipment cutting new roads for a neighborhood being built across the road from me.
One of my neighbors cut two Mexicans quite literally IN HALF with a Remington 1100, 3" Mag 00 Buck, point-blank range, as they broke into his house... those animals. I bought my neighbor down the road an EXPENSIVE bottle of the finest Bourbon, and a FRESH box of 00 Buck, as a small thanks for stopping this crime wave... DocSoos

Mr Dodsoos,
Good on You; and very good on your neighbor!! Wish I knew who your neighbor was... I'd send him whiskey/cigars/ammo myself.
Danged Illegal Alien already had an illegal wage earning job; and that wasnt enough for him?? Because of his "basic nature"... being a low life, third world, stupid animal... he just couldnt help himself. He already had a paycheck, but He just had to have more!? He just had to steal more. Stupid Animal !!!

This is one of the most important reasons for the 2nd Amendment. This is one of the most important reasons that Americans need to remain "armed". We have been invaded by millions of Mexicans. And most of them are third-world, stupid, low-life, puke, idiot animals. A twelve guage shotgun really is the best way to deal with most of them. And that's a fact.
--Ironclad

[lostone1413]

what most are forgetting is there is a difference between bulls-eye shooting and defensive shooting.

Minute of angle is a whole lot different that Minute of bad guy.

Just curious, but when was the last time a bunch of folks here even shot at at target that was less than arms reach away from them?

Are you familiar with what the concussion will feel like from that close? The sound of the report?

How many here know how to shoot from a retention position? How many know what a retention position is?

I can't even find a video on youtube of retention shooting that's worth sharing.

BINGO!! In a real gunfight you will be moving as you draw you will be moving as you shoot. Most I'd say way over 90% of the shooters worry more about a tight group. That thinking will get you killed in a real gunfight. The ones I have trained with teach gunfighting not marksmanship shooting. I have trained with some of the most dangerous people in the world. You can bet 98% of the shooting you will do in a self defense situation will be point shooting period. Anyone who doesn't believe that I would say should do some force on force training. At the very least go in the country and draw your gun on the move and shoot on the move. You will see a big big difference in that and square range shooting like over 90% do

[qwerty]

DocSoos,

I read your story in the BHM Magazine, how awful. Its a sad day when you have to spend your hard earned dollars in all of that equipment. Plus, the psychological effect it must have on your family.

The folks down my way have been lucky, were more remote and you don't see many illegals as the farmers like me hire Amish workers, they are hard and honest workers and don't have mutated forms of TB. And frankly that was our main concern.

Good luck, and maybe those German Shepherds will take care of things if anyone tries to invade your home. You have to admit that would be a interesting sight to come home to. ;)