Would You Join a Commune?

[WileyCoyote]

I've been looking at property in the Northwest with an eye to buying in the next year. We are debating about income property, 'escape' type, frugal, off-the-grid type property, all sorts of different ideas to fit what we have in mind. Combined we have many talents, but are lacking some - and this got me to thinking. Mind you, this is just a wonder, and not a proposition or suggestion...

If someone had a large piece (200+ acres) of property, and offered to sell you 20 acres dependent on your particular talents - be it every and anything from farming, through hunting, animal husbandry, blacksmithing, metalwork, electrical wiring/solar, wool conversion to cloth, to construction - with the understanding that, although you would be independent, your talents would (in trade) enhance the well-being of the other purchasers of the property, would you consider being a part of that community? What would be your criteria for joining such a community - or why would you be against it?

I have seen a lot of posts on here where people talk about their plans to "get away from it all" , as well as a lot of posts from people with problems because they do not have ready access to skills that they need. Would forming a community 'on purpose' that fulfills the needs of the community, and centralizes talents or skills in that community, be a reasonable outgrowth of this type of Internet community?

Just curious.

[WileyCoyote]

So would you postulate that, in almost every community, there are certain types of people, that in some situations could cause the community to prosper - just as, in other situations, they could cause the community to fester and rot from within?

I agree with you, but for necessity's sake, people often come together for simple survival - and stay together and slowly become the Mayor or the town drunk - and sometimes both! Does this mean that we are sociologically meant to be community folk - or are meant to be individuals?

If you have a group of people who are the hypothetical survivalist - "A" personality, forceful in temperament and direction, independent, quick decision-making, critical thinkers, etc - what would happen if you put all of these leadership-type people on one large plat of land? Would you have a war or an adult approach to survival? Or would you need "B" type people - teachers, creative folk, not critical thinkers but whole-earth concept, slow deliberators, arbitrators, to come up with innovations and to maintain agreeable relations?

I've been thinking about this - if TEOTWAWKI happens, who will be left - and how, and why? Will the "A"s protect the "B"s, will the "B"s be loading the weapons (so to speak) as the "A"s fire them out the windows... And would it be better to be in an established community where you can add your parts to the whole, or would it be better to build a community where you can define the parameters and meet the needs of the community?

I guess what spearheaded this chain of thought was the Free State Project, and my thoughts on - How would you keep out those whom you knew were layabouts, turncoats, lazy sellouts who would ensure that the community would suffer? How would you defend yourself against them? How could you ever be sure which ones would be true survivalists - and which ones would, in secrecy, plot to overthrow the 'haves' and take away what they had earned, or turn them in to a overzealous governmental or military invasion force?

[ryanmercer]

It depends... I got sucked into www.zendik.org at one time, now they claim to be a communte, specfically say they aren't a cult... but thats exact what they are, a cult.

[annabella1]

Only if I get to be supreme ruler.

[WileyCoyote]

LOL annabella! OK, howabout - whomever wins the Festivus competition every year gets to rule for that year?

Maybe the word "commune" isn't exactly what I meant. I'm thinking about the theory of building a community where people are free to do as they please with their own acreage (ok, not overdevelop it and build condos or golf courses) but who have valid talents and skills that can be bartered - like bakers, animal husbandry folk, cheesemakers, veternarian/blacksmith, doctor/midwife, metalworker, builder - a totally independent lifestyle where one can trade one's skills for necessities, so that one person or family does not have to know all and be all to themselves. A small town that is purposefully built to accommodate and care for itself.

Ex. say you and your husband are skilled at several things - but you can't dig a well or build a pole barn or figure out what is wrong with your chickens or cows or horses, or build a solar generator. Normally, you'd pop on here and ask for help, look it up in your books or Backwoods Home back copies (shameless plug), or call someone from the neighboring town and pay them.

But if the banks fail, or if there is suddenly no Internet service where you are, or if the closest town is 20 miles and there is no fuel, so it's shank's mare or one of those sick horses - what do you do? If money becomes useless, how do you pay people for their services?

Also, if the banking system and Fed Reserve fail, your 'outside jobs' may leave you with no income to pay your land payment or phone or electric or water bill (if you are not completely off the grid yet) - then what?

[torenghout]

no, I would join a small community tho, we are making an offer for a small house in a small town, my skills are diverse enough so I will find a niche.
as far as paying bills you should put all of your effort towards getting out of debt then becoming energy independent.
You should also make a consious effort to live in a farming area.

[annabella1]

If the banks fail then who would we be paying for our land? I don't think that would be much of an issue, possession is 9/10ths of the law.

[RangerRick]

No, history has taught us that the do not work.

Rick

[AlchemyAcres]

Me? No! Nada! Never!!!

But ,it does and can work given the right buncha people and the circumstances.....conviction is key....some Amish communities could be considered communal.....the shakers.....etc...

A forced commune fueled by economics and "free-trade"(?) seems to work (China)....we're making it happen....:D


~Martin :)

[flatwater]

What your talking about was tried in Russia , it's called marxism or perfect communism. In the purist form it sounds good but has never worked out because Man by nature is sinful IE; prideful , greedy, etc. etc. Many were started in the late sixty's , early 70's they didn't work either. They will work for awhile maybe even a few years but thats about all. I do believe that if the rules were changed and tweeked a commune would have a better chance of being succesful. The early church in the book of act's where they all sold their possesions for the good of all to be equal. Ananias and his wife decided that they didn't want to give there full price over. You know, keep a little back for a rainy day so they lied about how much they gave and the rest is history.

[ohara1000]

In Israel the kibbutz and moshav are common. This is a communal type setting where a group of people with different backgrounds and occupations jointly operate, let's say, a hotel or a large farm. All individual paychecks go into the common fund no matter if someone makes a little or a lot of money. All expense comes from the common fund. The large farms are more like co-ops. The individual farmer may own a share of of farm equipment. This works well when the farmer can't afford to buy farm equipment on his/her own.

I think I would try commune life, especially if banks and the Federal Reserve continues to fail.

Sarah

[firegirl969]

I don't think DH and I would live very well in a communal setting. We don't play well with others, IMHO. I think we do better with what we have on our own,

[Hoss]

There are examples of communes that work, you can find them on the web. However I believe most of the time you have a few close core people, and the rest are travelers staying a couple of months, couple of years and then moving on.

Eventually politics is going to catch up and infighting will begin....as a previous person in this thread pointed out...communism, marxism, democracy, etc..etc...they are all PERFECT systems. What they can not account for is human nature. Eventually they have to fail.

[debbie-bountiful]

No NO AND no again! I just love being away from it all, doing are own thing and not having people JUST DROP BY. We love are friends but wouldn't want to answer to them in any way. I think a commune would be really tough.

[DM]

Just don't drink the kool-aid!!

DM

[daffodil]

LOL annabella! OK, howabout - whomever wins the Festivus competition every year gets to rule for that year?

Maybe the word "commune" isn't exactly what I meant. I'm thinking about the theory of building a community where people are free to do as they please with their own acreage (ok, not overdevelop it and build condos or golf courses) but who have valid talents and skills that can be bartered - like bakers, animal husbandry folk, cheesemakers, veternarian/blacksmith, doctor/midwife, metalworker, builder - a totally independent lifestyle where one can trade one's skills for necessities, so that one person or family does not have to know all and be all to themselves. A small town that is purposefully built to accommodate and care for itself.

Ex. say you and your husband are skilled at several things - but you can't dig a well or build a pole barn or figure out what is wrong with your chickens or cows or horses, or build a solar generator. Normally, you'd pop on here and ask for help, look it up in your books or Backwoods Home back copies (shameless plug), or call someone from the neighboring town and pay them.

But if the banks fail, or if there is suddenly no Internet service where you are, or if the closest town is 20 miles and there is no fuel, so it's shank's mare or one of those sick horses - what do you do? If money becomes useless, how do you pay people for their services?

Also, if the banking system and Fed Reserve fail, your 'outside jobs' may leave you with no income to pay your land payment or phone or electric or water bill (if you are not completely off the grid yet) - then what?

Seems to me, this is the way it should be everywhere. People helping people. I used to not want to be around anyone, now I see things differently. Now I try to look at everyone as family. How would I treat the neighbor if that was my mother or sister, etc. I think I'd be alot more helpful and friendly, and that's what I'm working on doing myself. Most of my neighbors seem to try to be helpful to each other and get along. I don't have a mower so the neighbor brought his over, he was low on gas so the other neighbor gave some gas, I had extra seed potatoes so I passed them to the neighbor, etc. One has it, the other doesn't, so we try to pass it around. I really think it's the way things should be. Unfortunately, there are alot of places where it's not like that. It's everyone for themself.

[randallhilton]

I don't think "commune" fits what you described but you've described a pretty decent idea.

From what I've learned by reading history & economics:

* Per Adam Smith: Division of labor is a necessity. Self sufficiency is a myth. Period. There aren't enough hours in the day to produce food, energy and all the devices we need for survival, much less a decent lifestyle.

* Property rights are a must. Even if the property is rented, the tenant must have the right to dispose of their production as s/he sees fit.

* A free market is a must, and it will inevitably involve some form of currency, especially since trade with other communities is inevitable.

I suppose that a couple of hundred acres would support 2 - 5 families or so (many variables, of course). If I were king of such a spread, I would designate an area for domiciles separated by garden tracts, then designate the remainder for whatever agricultural uses make sense. As king, I would only rent to tenants just so I can have leverage to dictate comity.

I don't think you would have a hard time finding folks interested in joining the community even though you should absolutely seek to make it a profitable venture.

[AlchemyAcres]

Self sufficiency is a myth. Period. There aren't enough hours in the day to produce food, energy and all the devices we need for survival, much less a decent lifestyle.

Depends on how you define self-sufficiency and a decent lifestyle!! :D


~Martin

[NCLee]

Depends on how you define self-sufficiency and a decent lifestyle!! :D


~Martin

AMEN!

Would I join a commune? Absolutely Not!

The main reason is that I want as much freedom and independance as I can get. Good or bad, make my own decisions as to what I do, when I do it, and how I do it. Then, live with the rewards and the conquences, whatever they may be.

Don't want anyone, be it government, HOA, or self-appointed leaders of a commune telling me what I can and can't do on my little piece of God's earth. With that also comes the belief that I shouldn't do anything that would harm my neighbors.

No, I can't be totally self-sufficient. However, IMHO, the solution is to form a network throughout the whole community with those who can provide what I can't do myself. And, where possible provide to them things they can't do.

For example, yesterday I spent some time running a neighbor's rusty cast iron chicken fryer through the electrolysis bath. Have 2 more pieces to do for him. He collects old CI cookware. I've never charged him for cleaning/seasoning the pieces he brings by from time to time.

Yet, the other day, he offered me a free standing stainless steel sink that he's taking out so he can put in a wood cookstove. He'd previously mentioned that he wanted to use it for something else. However, he felt "obligated" to do something because he realized the expense, not to mention the labor, involved with restoring his CI. Told him that he wasn't obligated because he brings me venison every fall. Thus, giving him the opportunity to re-consider his offer of the sink. Sure, I'd love to have that sink in my outdoor kitchen, but only if he really does feel comfortable in his offer of it.

That story illustrates what I'm trying to say about being self-sufficient. I can't make that sink. I can't justify that type of purchase for the backyard kitchen because I have a small sink that does work. However, if he does indeed give it to me for a service I've rendered to him, that's another form of being self-sufficient. In my own way, on my own property, without anyone else having a say in what I can/can't do here.

In closing, the last point is about a "decent lifestyle". It's interesting to hear some people talk about what they consider to be a "decent lifestyle". Usually, it revolves around modern conveniences that are deemed to the necessary for comfortable living with a minimum of work. Rarely are things outside the scope of material possessions mentioned. Happiness, self-satisfaction, the pure pleasure that comes from solving a problem, or the peace that comes from watching a sunset.

Lee

[Not2L8]

Lee, I couldn't agree more!

Like minded neighbors are great! If we can help each other, great! I just don't want anyone expecting anything or depending on the fruits of my labor or specific skills. My interest/skills may change with time, and nobody should have any say as to what I can or can't, start or stop producing.

[Andy Jones]

No,I wouldn't.From my past life experiences from work,play,school,church,fraternal organizations or any other things where people congregate,you always have slackers that are parasites on the ones that are pulling the load.I don't have any use for lazy assed deadbeats looking for something for nothing.

I'm not talking about someone who isn't physically able to do what needs to be done.

JMHO,Andy

[debbie-bountiful]

No,I wouldn't.From my past life experiences from work,play,school,church,fraternal organizations or any other things where people congregate,you always have slackers that are parasites on the ones that are pulling the load.I don't have any use for lazy assed deadbeats looking for something for nothing.

I'm not talking about someone who isn't physically able to do what needs to be done.

JMHO,Andy

WELL lets not be too hard. I guess I agree with you BUT maybe what is important to you isn't to another. That is why I wouldn't ever be part of a commune. Not to mention I just love my property and wouldn't want anyone else be able to even walk on it without me showing it off.

Now sometimes even with my husband there can be a difference of what is IMPORTANT. Like today, he seems to think burning is on the top of the list. I think working the blueberries is more important. With husband/wife you can work out the problems but not with others at least I don't believe.

[Cherokeewoman]

I love the idea behind your proposal but I don't think it would work out for someone like myself. I have great skills and I am a hard worker but I expect everyone around me to work as hard as I do and you know that there is always that one person who just wants to be the "idea person" or the supervisor. I am pretty sure I would hurt that someone...lol....but seriously, I love my independence.....I would be interested in living around like minded people though and I never mind lending someone a hand.

[Junie]

I'd rather be a hermit.

[nhlivefreeordie]

I was just going to say NO!!...but the forum wouldn't allow it, so I will agree with Martin and Lee, and for the same reasons Lee stated.

[LJH]

No way, Jose!

I'll help a neighbor if needed, and accept help on occasion but other than that I want to be LEFT ALONE! Commune sounds an awful lot like communism to me, and we all know how well that works.

[randallhilton]

Eventually politics is going to catch up and infighting will begin....as a previous person in this thread pointed out...communism, marxism, democracy, etc..etc...they are all PERFECT systems. What they can not account for is human nature. Eventually they have to fail.

Right on target with that one. If mankind can foul up the Garden of Eden, what CAN'T we foul up?

The more I think about this, the more I think you might be closer to a co-op than a commune. Just thinking out loud, not knowing whether there's anything that makes sense. . . .

I could be interested in a set up where the "homesteaders" could purchase up to 5 acre tracts or so, with access to a couple hundred acres for whatever agricultural ventures made sense. Purchasing the "homestead" acreage might include X amount of shares for the "common" area/s. More shares could be purchased if desired.

Owners could vote with their shares (you would always retain a majority stock). If the common property earned a profit, share holders would get a dividend based upon a fixed percentage of sales or whatever. Whomever was in charge of producing the profit would certainly get their due, plus whatever dividend earned for their shares.

The devil is in the details, of course, but if you want something like this to work you have to appeal to the folks who don't yet have their homestead. They probably don't have the wherewithal to buy a big place of their own but if you make it easier, by offering 5 acres with access to a bigger spread you may have a profit opportunity while providing an opportunity for someone to get started.

[Laura]

Right on target with that one. If mankind can foul up the Garden of Eden, what CAN'T we foul up?

That about says it.
Commune? No way.....never not ever.

[Proud_Poppa]

I agree with Junie.....I'm more the hermit type.

[Mom5farmboys]

Nope a commune wouldn't be for me either. While I love being around other people, I most definitley need my alone time to recharge.

I also want to get done the things I want to get done, when/how I want them done, if that makes any sense?

The only way I think it would work for me is if I could be in charge of the commune and everyone would have to do what I said, lol and I always had the final word on things! I'm not holding my breath on that one though. :)

[marnee]

I haven't gone through and read the other posts yet, so I apologize if I'm just repeating. I will go read them when I get a few minutes, I promise. :)

But, sure, I'd consider it in a world of ideals. The benefits are pretty concrete, and when people are actually working towards the same end goals and doing so with similar values, it can work out really well. There'd be pleanty of "alone" time if everyone had their own 20 acres to manage. :)

Practically, though, my husband has developed close working relationships with a good bunch of people that let us trade goods and services a bit. It's very minor compared to what would happen in a 200 acre commune, but it still helps. My husband is more than willing to help them out with their computer-related issues, and we in exchange get some help from them when needed.

[marnee]

Am I the only one who thought of "The Village" when I first read the opening post?

[patience]

NH said: "I was just going to say NO!!...but the forum wouldn't allow it, so I will agree with Martin and Lee, and for the same reasons Lee stated."

:lol: Took the words right outa my mouth!!!

I believe in communities, only if they grew together naturally, not artificially, as in "intentional communites". I don't live far from New Harmony, Indiana, where once was a commune. They had a lot of intellectuals, and not enough workers, thus they didn't last. My own community, however, has been functional since the early 1800's. There are good reasons behind both of these results. I'm sticking with the one that works.

[WileyCoyote]

Wow, there's a surprise. I started this thread two years ago, and someone resurrected it... :D

Late last year a good friend started what she calls a 'co-operative' in TX. They buy into a 5 acre piece, and share the garden/goat pasture/etc, as well as the 'communal space' - the meal hut, etc. She has run into sooo many problems, because it was not well thought out. Her "Freedom Ranch" has come under fire because people 'buy in' and then don't show up to work, or show up for a week and then want their money back. The land is completely bare pasture and rural - there is not even a water or septic system, although there is a creek as well as underground water available. They are struggling to get enough people to not only buy in, but to actually do the work that is required.

It seems that there are a lot of people who expected at least basic amenities like water and sewer, or even roads or basic shelter. No, they are expected to build their own. There are no restrictions as to what one can build on one's own property - but there are restrictions on how you impact your neighbors.

To me it seems that a lot of folks are looking to be rural but not QUITE that rural - she might have been better off buying an abandoned town with at least basic amenities in place. But things are working out (unfortunately) pretty much as I told her that they would... people coming into a situation with their hands out, people liking the IDEA of being in a communal setting without any idea of how to work or make it work, people with different personalities wanting to be "in charge" and still others causing trouble just for the fun of it. My friend spends half her time resolving disputes and the other half trying to get folks to work together on projects.

She has pretty much answered my curiosity on that score!

[bookwormom]

quote
The benefits are pretty concrete, and when people are actually working towards the same end goals and doing so with similar values, it can work out really well. There'd be pleanty of "alone" time if everyone had their own 20 acres to manage. :)


uh, correct me if I am wrong, but if everyone had 20 acres to manage on his own, you would have a community,not a commune. I am all for community, but commune would mean I would have strangers on my acres squabbling where, when, how to do what, rather, my acres would not be my acres. Or else you have a super boss and you get to say " yes sir". That has worked well. Monastic orders have worked for thousands of years. Notice though that the main rules are poverty, obedience and chastity.

Even in Russia, the couple of acres the people were allowed to keep supplied most of the fruits and vegetables, and they had flourishing farmer's markets. Else they would have gone under a lot sooner.
I noticed it in the Czech Republic, too. Anything that was "Commune" looked ramshackle and derelict. But you never saw such well kept gardens and so many fruit trees. They could not drop out of the commune, the commune had to keep going, whether you liked it or not. If there is not a strong hand behind it it will not last. Now a good community is a different matter. I just love a good community. Local economies, keep it small, keep it home, do it well.

[TEX]

I'm too bossy. They would probably kick me out.

[marnee]

bookwormmom, the 20 acres came from Wiley's opening post. Thanks for reminding the difference between commune (which I too interpret to be really small with everyone in close quarters) and community.

Wiley, I'd also be one of those who would want some very basic amenities as well. I really would be okay living in a situation you described (provided everyone shared higher moral values to prevent some of the basic problems, not that that would happen, but still), but I would really want wells already drilled and functioning on each section, mostly to make it easier to set everything else up (one less thing to worry about). I'm surprised that people would buy in not understanding the actual work that would need to be done. Did these people just miss "hey, there's no well or septic system, so you'll need to install your own if you want"?

[tomato204]

I don't think the commune idea would work for me. Somebody would always want to be "the boss" and others might be lazy, as somebody said. I just can't see it working very long.

[Lobo]

"Depends on how you define self-sufficiency and a decent lifestyle!!"-Martin


That says it all right there.

Lobo

[iowasue]

Several women I worked with in the 70's were members of a self-styled "commune". When they finally realized they were the only ones bringing in an income plus working on their farm it was over.

[Icamp2]

So, I for one would actually be very willing to consider it for several reasons, though I think I lean more towards a cooperative style living and less to a commune. I have been speaking to three other families at length about this exact idea.

I think particularly if each person owns thier own property it is more efficient and there is less conflict over others helping/not helping.

For me, a single woman with kids who is moving towards buying property within the next year it holds many possibilities. I would love to have others who are similar minded be close enough to call when I need help. In turn, I would love to help others as well.

The other families I have been talking to about this each have thier own set of skills. I am highly skilled in gardening, animal care etc but have relatively little knowledge of building structures. One other family is the opposite. Her husband and her have built several buildings, homes, chicken coops etc but have never had any success with gardening or animals.

SO, for me, if agreements were understood, I would be very drawn to this concept. However, we would have to have ALOT of space between eachother for my liking.

Kat
*complete newbie to posting here so my input is far less important!*

[Anon001]

Kat
*complete newbie to posting here so my input is far less important!*

Not true.

Unless egos or arrogance gets in the way, even old timers can learn something from "newbies".

Paul

[NCLee]

Not true.

Unless egos or arrogance gets in the way, even old timers can learn something from "newbies".

Paul

Agree 100%!

Welcome Kat. Looking forward to virtually walking along side of you as you make your journey. I'll lend a hand, when I can. And, I'm sure you can teach this old dog some new tricks, too.

Lee

[Icamp2]

Thanks for the support. I try to tread lightly because I have been on other boards (primarily gardening, canning, preserving etc) where newbies come on for a week or two and have all the answers. At times it can feel a bit . .. obnoxious maybe? So, I try to be sensitive to that.

And any advice you have on my journey will be fantastic. I have been living in a small rural town for about six years . . . time for me to get back to the country. I miss my goats and animals!

[Anon001]

And any advice you have on my journey will be fantastic. I have been living in a small rural town for about six years . . . time for me to get back to the country. I miss my goats and animals!

Then you have plenty to share having goats and animals in the past. You can also share about what you've been doing in the meanwhile..... in preparation for the move back to the country.

Paul

[Teg]

I'd have to say no, once I retire I plan on limiting the number of folks that can possiby annoy me not increase them ;):). Also I believe these things usually go badly, even the community's that are non-hippy are plagued by bickering an infighting, look up Bo Gritz and "Almost Heaven".

[sethwyo]

In the mountains of idaho, Bo gritz founded a community he named 'Almost heaven'
the idea was for people to be able to get away from the citys and all the many problems city people make.
it was a great idea, people could get in with only a down payment and have land to work their projects on.

it wusnt a commune where everyone lived in the same building, as i recall there was 50 familys spread out over 10 miles at its peak in the mid 90's, and a second community called Almost heaven II was started.

there wore a lot of people helping out others who didnt have the means to make it by themselves. they wore charitable, and that brought the bums. and there wore a lot of milita sycos who believed there was a government somewhere stealing their rights, they wanted to use the area as a base to conduct their 'War against oppression', however they couldnt find any enemies in the remote area, there simply wusnt any government to defy. tilling the ground and raising animals in overalls and straw hats wusnt what the militants wanted, they wanted to wear their camos and ammo belts and have a modern civil war like the thrilling war movies they watched. many Almost heaven residents carried guns openly into town, And the the militants wore looking for excitment, It is SOOO boring watching taters grow. they told everyone in all the shops and stores and resturants about how they wore going to have WWWIII, they talked about homemade bombs, declairing themselves a seperate nation, kidnapping, er, "Arresting" police, mayors and other officals, and exucutions.

they didnt want the country life or freedom, they didnt want to work, they wanted to play toy soilder. this didnt go well with the people who wore 2nd generation or older residents in the area, the good(for nothing) ol boys who thought they owned the area and didnt like them 'New comers' moving in.

Few people wanted to tend their own affairs, Neither the cops and politicols and inbred locals on one side, nor gun packin militants on the other, and the survivalist caught in the middle.

people wearing camos and packing guns around town declairing they would blast anyone who tryed to 'take their rights' stirred up the hicks and their hick cousins on the police force, then the cops would not only go after the militants, but ALSO the survivalist packing a gun and hoe in his/her garden.

there wore a lot of idiots who had better things to do, butt spent all their time instigating and fighting with each other.

iv tryed to partner up with people to make a working farm community, a hand full of people on a few hundred acres, making everything we need, my family didnt want anything to do with it, and iv found that despite all the talk of underground homes and wells and crops and fuel and all other forms of self reliance/do it yourself that iv listened to, no one really wants to do anything butt talk.
some like the idea, because they want to be the boss, its about social interaction for them, its the only way for them to be around other people, and they will camp on your couch if you let them in, your door step if you dont.
The last idiot i teamed up with refused to do any work at all, opting insted to follow me around all day telling me about his evil exwifes, and how they wouldnt let him 'Help' them, he soon took to telling me what i could (and could NOT) wear and eat, and how i was "jest like his ex" And like his Ex, i left him.

[Teg]

You seemed to have captured that situation pretty well, it seems that most projects like this are started with the best of intentions but generally turn bad as soon as you inject humans into them.

[NCLee]

Sethwyo, I agree that you summed it up.

Yes, it is boring to watch taters grow. And, it's WORK to plant them, tend them, and harvest, too. It's agravating to have those who prop on their hoes and shoot the bull while others actually use the hoe to get the grass out of those taters.

In about every situation that I've been in, from doing the 9-5 behind a desk, to gleening leftover corn after a harvester has picked the crop, there are some who only want to prop on their hoes and watch others work.

Periodically run into the rambo types, too. (More often on line, once in a while locally.) They've got an armory of guns and ammo and 2 cans of beans in the pantry. Locally, the favorite excuse is "I don't have time" for doing things like growing taters. Translation - "I don't want to expend the sweat for something so mundane. It's more fun to shoot at paper targets and play with reloading equipment." -- Don't get me wrong. -- Don't have any problem with anyone being well prepared in any area of self-reliance.

It's getting harder and harder to find people who willingly roll up their sleeves and go to work (physical labor) to make sure those taters grow.

Guess that's why I enjoy "talking" with the people here in this forum. Makes it a little easier to deal with the aches and pains in these old bones, while doing things equivalent to watching taters grow.

Maybe, we, as a group, have the best form of commune there is, right here in these posts and pages.

Lee

[MrGreenJeans]

To many think the comune thing is an easy free no work life, IE welfare bums come to the country. It's sad, but a small group of folks could make it work. If they all pull their weight when they could. It would be hard to find a solid group that would not end up bringing a lazy one along cause they are family. Lazy don't make it here i'll tell ya that for sure. Right folk's, right place and a goal in mind it could work.

[sethwyo]

Wow, there's a surprise. I started this thread two years ago, and someone resurrected it... :D

Late last year a good friend started what she calls a 'co-operative' in TX. They buy into a 5 acre piece, and share the garden/goat pasture/etc, as well as the 'communal space' - the meal hut, etc. She has run into sooo many problems, because it was not well thought out. Her "Freedom Ranch" has come under fire because people 'buy in' and then don't show up to work, or show up for a week and then want their money back. The land is completely bare pasture and rural - there is not even a water or septic system, although there is a creek as well as underground water available. They are struggling to get enough people to not only buy in, but to actually do the work that is required.

It seems that there are a lot of people who expected at least basic amenities like water and sewer, or even roads or basic shelter. No, they are expected to build their own. There are no restrictions as to what one can build on one's own property - but there are restrictions on how you impact your neighbors.

To me it seems that a lot of folks are looking to be rural but not QUITE that rural - she might have been better off buying an abandoned town with at least basic amenities in place. But things are working out (unfortunately) pretty much as I told her that they would... people coming into a situation with their hands out, people liking the IDEA of being in a communal setting without any idea of how to work or make it work, people with different personalities wanting to be "in charge" and still others causing trouble just for the fun of it. My friend spends half her time resolving disputes and the other half trying to get folks to work together on projects.

She has pretty much answered my curiosity on that score!

I believe that what she is doing is right, people do need to work together And be together, different people with different skills for different events.

there are VERY FEW people that are 'true' and 'real' and 'good'. its fractions.

it wont be easy to do, you cant expect high numbers of quality people to show up.
people need to be filtered out, they need to be tested to see what they are made of, hard work is usually what does it. cold winters, lack of food ECT will push them over whichever edge they are on.

i think the world is getting ready to start 'weeding' out the garden

[cwatson]

Maybe if you "interviewed" people before accepting them into the community you would be able to weed out the Hoe Huggers from the Hoe workers.

I always tell my DH if anything ever happens to him I will sell all we have and join a commune or community so I will finally have some help :)

I think with the right people and realistic people it could work. There is a place here in Texas that is something like that they are in Elm Mott. It is called Homestead Heritage. I think I would convert and go there.

[offgridbob]

I would if I was single and they were all college age women needing a good man around and we could trade for faviors. At my age I would have to have at least everyother day off to rest though

[sethwyo]

your not too smart

[pcrowder]

deleted --- accidentally posted twice

[pcrowder]

I personally never would join one. I'm afraid it would end up being like our country is now --- a handful of people doing 99% of the work, while the rest think they should get equal "shares" simply because they are part of it. I also would be concerned with a hand full of people trying to "micro manage" everything and everybody, because it's always seemed to me like those that are "control freaks" are basically know-it-alls, who in reality, know very little. They just want to run everything, whether they are capable or not, and are not usually very 'open' to things being different than how they picture it, and it would be their way or the highway mentality.

Maybe I'm looking at it wrong, but I see a commune as simply a microscopic example of any modern country's government. It's Majority rules as far as voting goes, and look where that's gotten us in recent years. You will always have "shovel leaners" who demand their fair share even though they have not earned it. It would take a huge majority to kick them out of the commune, and what happens if people repeat non-major 'infractions' over a period of time, or deliberately refuse to carry their weight? Nothing huge enough to get them kicked out immediately, but people who keep pressing/bending the rules? You are going to have alot of resentment and discontent from the workers for the non-workers. And who is going to be the "law" figure(s) who can enforce the decision to reprimand them/deny them privileges, or kick them out entirely?

I liken it to when the unemployed BROKE lazy brother in law begs to come and live with ya till he "gets on his feet and finds a job"...he PROMISES he'll work hard around the place and help with the chores/unfinished projects. He PROMISES he'll do his fair share, yup, just ask and he's more than happy to. And what happens in the end? He sleeps till noon, drinks half the night away, never DOES look for a job or carry his own weight, and you end up having to forcibly kick him out after you just CANNOT tolerate him any longer, and half the family is not speaking to the other half of the family over it because you're "picking on him". Been there done that --- several times with several relatives. Have grown wiser, and will NEVER, EVER let it happen again.

Nope -- a commune to me is like the relatives, but I fear you'd have a harder time getting rid of the undesirables in a commune than you do in your own family. I personally think small immediate family units would be easier to deal with. You probably would have to work a whole lot harder, but you'd also not have to deal with so much in-fighting and discontent, and since everyone has a REAL stake in the survival of the place, it would be easier to make it work.

jmho of course!

[sethwyo]

Hey pc, There are more than a couple people with your same mentality and ethics, you need to get with them and get ready. YOU REALLY DO NEED TO.

And, what round do you personaly favor ?

[pcrowder]

Hey pc, There are more than a couple people with your same mentality and ethics, you need to get with them and get ready. YOU REALLY DO NEED TO.

And, what round do you personaly favor ?

We are pretty rural here, and can be 98% self-reliant if we need to, so the thought of getting with others makes me leery.

Don't understand what you mean by "what round do I personally favor?"

[Southerngirl]

WELCOME KAT! AND YOUR INPUT IS VERY MUCH APPRECIATED AND EXCEPTED HERE!
I'M STILL SORTA NEW MYSELF... ;)

As far as what you would "call" this sort of people gathering together sharing skills to survive doesn't matter... in a way that is what we have planned (if you can plan anything). We only have 25 acres outside a small town, and if things get as bad as everyone is saying (loss of the Grid and life as we now know it) then we plan on allowing CERTAIN friends and family that possess skills that will help us all to survive. I mean even as far back as the cavemen had to work together to survive.
There will of course be those that will want to come just because they are related or friends of a friend and if they have no desire to help without bringing drama, they don't stay here. But I have to agree, I have thought if something happened to my husband and he was no longer here to protect or help us with things, I would need someone dependable that I already knew and trusted to help the kids and I on the farm. I think working together with like minded people is great!
Some people KNOW how to do almost everything they would need to survive and some are better alone, but if it was organized and everyone respected each other's space I would be all for it. I think it would make the "community" stronger, but the same can be done with getting to know your neighbors and sharing skills when it came time for it.
Just my 2 cents. :)