how do we maintain health in SHTF

[bookwormom]

at another site I saw a link to this woman's videos. She makes a heap of sense and to my surprise, was totally ignored. I think what she has to say needs to be considered or else one is just playing games. You do not need to prep if you are dead.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J42CLa5iATM

I have not watched all her videos. I think she is worth a discussion.

[bookwormom]

Summer has been hard for me, and it is very busy, as you all know. I do not get on the forum much anymore.
While looking at patriot nurse came across this guy who claims that the gfame population is down in some areas. I read a while back that during the depression there was hardly any game left in some areas. What is your opinion if you plan to augment your diet with hunting? I am not, as there is not much game around our place due to my dogs patrolling the farm.

[bookwormom]

while I am at it, look at this fellow

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0BTctUfPvI

a lot of folks will jump on this guy, but his wife makes a lot of sense.
I think they are not as cute as lambs or rabbits and we eat those without any qualm.

[grumble]

My thinking is that when meat runs out, folks will be getting their protein from grains. When that runs out, they take the only available option, and die. <G>

Seriously, TVP is fairly inexpensive now, and stores well. It isn't as good as honest meat, but will tide you over between squirrels. Those dogs might be a pretty good source of protein, too. They don't even need any special storage.

[bookwormom]

I guess I was a tad vague on my first post, and really did not say anything about the content.
the video is by a woman who calls herself 'Patriot Nurse' and the first video deals with the fact that a lot of people are going to die right off once the shtf in seriousness. Who is going to die, and why?

what about shelf life of drugs?,
what about millions of people dependent on psycho meds who have to get off cold turkey when their access is cut off?

I have not looked at all her postings. There is so much out there and so little time. She seems to be on the ball all right.

Health is a very important issue.

[randallhilton]

I guess I was a tad vague on my first post, and really did not say anything about the content.
the video is by a woman who calls herself 'Patriot Nurse' and the first video deals with the fact that a lot of people are going to die right off once the shtf in seriousness. Who is going to die, and why?



I'm inclined to think that TS is hitting TF right now and has been ever since Hank Paulson announced the end of our economy and started TARP etc. In other words, rather than a sudden moment I expect we'll grind to a halt over another decade or more.

To your point, yes, there is a large segment of society which is dependent upon the system. As an EMT in an ambulance all week I may have a warped view but the fact is that all of us are going to the same end. All our health care system does is push the date a little further out. For example, if a person runs out of insulin and meets their end we must keep in mind that they would have met their end years ago were it not for the medication. It is what it is.

The folks that are going to have the hardest time are those who have become wards of society. You'll see them filling up their Wal-Mart grocery carts at midnight before the 1st of the month. It won't be pretty when they run out of mac and cheese.

[BackyardHerbals]

I'm not sure if my response is what you're looking for, but this is what came to mind. I've taken responsibility for our family's health for the past 20 years. Most of my children can never remember going to a doctor, we eat healthy and live healthy. I'm an herbalist and most things that crop up I can handle at home. In my opinion 90% of illnesees/diseases are caused by a poor lifestyle and a SHTF scenario is only going to finish off what the people themselves have begun. Hear me here, I didn't say all illnesses and there are folks with real medical issues that they haven't brought on themselves. That said, maintaining health begins today if it hasn't already been your lifestyle. I've read about people preaching to stock up on vitamin C etc but I think that relying on big Pharma is one lifestyle choice that nees to change. Natural forms of vitamin C are everywhere, in pine needles and sumac berries to name 2 that are easily identifiable and available.

[S2man]

From the reference to folks dying right away, I assume bookwormom is talking about a complete TEOTWAWKI situation. Yep, from what I read, those on life support will go shortly, followed by those who rely on med's. Yes, those lunies will run out of med's, too. That should be fun.

The first big problem will be communicable diseases like Cholera or Dysentery. Sanitation is the key to avoiding sickness in your group. Everyone must wash thoroughly after using the rest room, and before preparing or eating food. I mean thoroughly. Isolate those who are ill. Avoid strangers. A sick member of your group not only can not perform their duties, but will also take labor away from other members in order to care for the sick one. What if three of you are sick get the same time?... Avoid it.

After the epidemics pass, starvation will probably be the largest killer.

We have stocked up as much as we can on prescription meds. And we have a large stock of OTC meds. In a SHTF situation, your diet will likely change, and your intestines may need some time to adjust. A couple of OTC's which may be very handy to have are meds for diarheaa and constipation.

We also have a *lot* of bandages, tape, sutures and similar supplies. My wife had some sever burns a couple of years ago, and we learned just how many bandages/dressings a person can go through when they need changing twice per day.

I've download a pretty good medical library. I've got from anesthesia to Where there Is no Dentist, with first aid, medicinal plants and midwifery in the middle. There are lots of free book sources out there. The military even has their medical text books online (that's nice, since we paid have them printed).

On the medicine shelf life: I have a friend at work who used to work for a big pharma company. She saves all of her old drugs, and took her mother's when she died. She tells me the shelf life of most med's is insanely long, and the pharma co's intentionally print short shelf lives to keep folks refilling their 'scripts. That is hearsay, take it for what you paid for it.

Edit: I just watched that segment by the Patriot Nurse. Yeah, she is talking about a grid down situation. That is a definate TOTWAWKI.

[grumble]

Can you expand a bit on the anesthesia part? I haven't found anything except prescription drugs for that.

[S2man]

Can you expand a bit on the anesthesia part? I haven't found anything except prescription drugs for that.

Its been a while since I browsed that book. I recall instructions for using ether; You wake up with a splitting head ache, IIRC. And there is local/topical anesthesia, which I recall they preferred. Knocking someone out would be for performing surgery. Sorry, I can't remember the details. I could send it to you if you PM me.

Speaking of surgery, I also have a text book on surgery. I never intend use it myself, but it may be invaluable if I can put it into the right hands in an emergency. But most of my library is more practical, field oriented texts.

One other thought on staying healthy in a SHTF situation; Be Careful. Avoid injuries. I don't want to take care of you while you are laid up with an infected wound from the axe! LOL

[Cactus]

I know I'm a little late to this thread, but check out this site:

http://hesperian.org/books-and-resources/

It has downloadable PDF files on personal and community health including Where There is No Doctor & Where There is No Women's Doctor.

Depending on where you live you might also looking into becoming an Emergency Care Attendant. Not as in depth as an EMT but still good information. In some areas, especially rural, the class is free if you agree to volunteer for a year.

[NCLee]

One of the things we have to do is to face FACTS. It ain't easy. I know. Due to health problems, prescription meds are a way of life. Yes, we can stockpile some of those meds for the short term. Some of those meds aren't mandatory as life will be a little more difficult without them. For example, stomach acid and arthritis. That's not the case with others.

I don't want to be morbid. Instead, trying to be realistic. Trying to include in our "preps" the mindset that an EOTWAWKI will probably hasten our end, too. Just as it would, if one of us is diagnosed with a terminal illness. No, I don't have all the answers. No, don't fully know what I or the other members of my immdiate family will do if one of us is called home. Much will depend on whether there's any kind of support system still in place. Whether it's organized support or simply neighbors and friends.

On to another subject. Protein. Beans and rice! Rice and beans! They are relatively inexpensive and have a 30+ year shelf life. http://providentliving.org/content/display/0,11666,7798-1-4224-1,00.html With plenty of these on hand (and the water to prepare them!) a little meat will become seasoning and a source of fats, rather than the primary source for protein. Sam's Club, for example, sells both beans and rice in bulk. Put some protein on your pantry shelves.

Agree 100% on sanitation. Something we tend to take for granted today. That is until you see what the Wall Street protestors did when they didn't have portable toilets. With a massive breakdown of public sanitation systems, disease will take out a lot of people, who haven't learned the basics. Do what you can, for your own circumstances, when the toilet won't flush. Learn how to make soap, when WalMart has been looted. Learn how to do laundry the way my Mama did with a washpot and washboard.

Back to health issues, for a moment. Avoid an abrupt shift in your diet. It takes a while for your digestive system to adjust to a different diet. If you don't eat beans regularly, you know what happens when you eat a can of pork and beans from your pantry shelf. :wink: Switching from only soft white bread to whole wheat is a shock to your system. Or, cornbread for that matter. This gets back to the golden rule --- store what you eat and eat what you store.

Yes, I'm of the opinion, too, that most wild game will quickly disappear. Even the pigeons and crows will vanish as hungry people will eat anything to survive. However, I suspect that other sources of nutrition will go un-noticed by the masses. Either they don't know about them or, if they do, they can't prepare them. Poke salit used to be a staple for a "spring tonic". How about some acorn soup? http://www.nativetech.org/recipes/recipe.php?recipeid=115

In closing, maintaining health covers a huge range of subjects from lack of meds (reality) to making sure water is safe to drink. From longjohns in winter to straw hats in summer. It's so much more than a fully stocked first aid kit. IMHO, it's at the heart of being "self-reliant" and "independent".

Thanks for letting me ramble this morn.

May it, indeed, be a Happy New Year,
Lee

[momma_to_seven_chi]

I recall instructions for using ether; You wake up with a splitting head ache, IIRC. And there is local/topical anesthesia, which I recall they preferred.

There is an essential oil blend called Mgrain that immediately stops a headache. The blend is from Young Living, but the oils in then blend are:
Basil (Ocimum basilicum)
Marjoram (Origanum majorana)
Lavender (Lavandula angustifolia)
Peppermint (Mentha piperita)
Roman chamomile (Chamaemelum nobile)
Helichrysum (Helichrysum italicum)

They have another oil for pain in a blend called Valor. And it really works within a couple of seconds. The oils in it are:
Spruce (Picea mariana),
Rosewood (Aniba rosaeodora),
Blue tansy (Tanacetum annuum)
Frankincense

The ability to stop pain in essential oils is amazing. And they work just by putting a couple of drops into a painful area. Spruce is the big one to stop pain, and basil increases blood flow. Keeping a few oils on hand, or making essences yourself, is a good idea for a home care kit. Drug companies know that you can put medicine on your skin and have it absorb into the body. Essential oils work the same way as a "patch". They absorb into the blood stream through the skin, raise oxygen levels, and are just wonderful things.

[cinok]

Depending on the size or expected length of the situation hard choices will need to be made. Anyone familiar with triage will have some experience with this. If it's long term thing basics such as food water will come into play. Does grandma or a special needs child have vAlue for the family to survive. Maintaining health of a
Group/family my come down to who is a burden and drain on precious supplies. Also health is going to be based on labor. Can we push a wheelchair or carry an infermed person. That extra labor will require a larger ration to the person carrying while still feeding the cargo.

[grumble]

Stone age cultures had their own solution for such things. A sick or malformed baby would just disappear, and granny would take a long one way walk in the snow. Not many modern cultures have that kind of emotional toughness, I don't think. It's ingrained in us to take care of those that need extra help, even at the expense of our own survival.

I might be willing to dump YOUR grampa on the trail, but MY grampa will get towed along in a handcart.

[TNDadx4]

I really like The Patriot Nurse and her videos. I've followed her for some time. She is full of practical advice in bite size chunks that are easy to digest.

I watched her "Who Will Die First..." video a while ago and it made sense. It made me want to get in the best possible shape of my life while I have the option to do so.

It will be a whole lot harder to "gradually" get into shape when TSHTF.

[cinok]

I might be willing to dump YOUR grampa on the trail, but MY grampa will get towed along in a handcart.

But what if the group has my grams and your grams plus our wife's grams. Are you going to give up a part of your supplies. Like you said not many folks even think about stuff like this. Nurturing has become ingrained into our way of life.

[grumble]

Thing is, cinok, I'm the grampa here!!

But to your point, yes, I have thought about things like this. Us old folks will have to give serious consideration about whether our contribution, which might be only knowledge, is worth the expenditure of resources needed to sustain us. No way to predict what the situation would be, but something we should all consider, nonetheless.

[kfander]

Stone age cultures had their own solution for such things. A sick or malformed baby would just disappear, and granny would take a long one way walk in the snow. Not many modern cultures have that kind of emotional toughness, I don't think. It's ingrained in us to take care of those that need extra help, even at the expense of our own survival.

I view that as a good thing. As a Christian, my true survival begins after my life here ends, so I wouldn't want to do anything to prolong my time here that would jeopardize my long-term survival later.

[grumble]

You confirmed what I always suspected, kfander. You aren't a member of a stone age culture, and you just admitted to it!

Edit:

I'm calling you out, right here in front of everybody. I bet you don't approve of human sacrifice either, do you?

[NCLee]

I view that as a good thing. As a Christian, my true survival begins after my life here ends, so I wouldn't want to do anything to prolong my time here that would jeopardize my long-term survival later.

AMEN, Kfander! :yes2:

If we'd had kids, I'd be a great grandparent today. Have a bunch of great nieces and nephews.

So, Grumble, you're right about us old folks thinking about things like this one. What would we do on both sides of the issue. Who to help and how not to be a liability to others, for as long as we can.

Who to help is easy. We'll help those who truly need help through no fault of their own. An elderly neighbor (yep, older than me) just lost his wife to cancer. There's no way I could turn him away, if he asked for help. Yes, he can have a biscuit made from our last batch of flour.

On the other hand, some of those healthy 30 something's who live nearby and brag about their big screen TV's, flaunt their football teams expensive jackets, and other trapping of living the "good life" will be sent on their way. If they don't go, I'll defend what we have. Just so there's some flour left to give my elderly neighbor a biscuit if he needs one.

I read a story awhile back. Group of people were stranded in a lifeboat far from shore. There was one too many on the boat to survive the time it would take to reach safety. Each of the people on the boat had some liability, such as being overweight, elderly and frail, etc. The question was who should be thrown overboard so the rest could reach safety?

Pros and cons were weighed for each one on the boat. Who would be the most liability to the rest of the group? Who should be tossed by the rest of the group?

The answer: No one. Thou shalt not kill (murder). To toss one of the group overboard so that the rest could benefit is murder. What right do we have to kill John Doe in order to get his share of water?

Lee

[grumble]

And then there's the TRUE story about a ship's crew in the same situation. They drew lots. The loser of the lottery was the most popular young man on the life boat, but he submitted to being shot in the head to feed his crewmates.

Go figure.

[kfander]

True enough, there are some things that may be done for survival that would make survival unworthy.

[whitehairedidiot]

I'm reviving this thread - and reorienting it back to topic.

Just started reading Amageddon Medicine, by Cynthia J. Koelker, MD. She covers a good bit of the topics already discussed. It's easy to read - larger print and extra white space between the lines! and in plain english - except for some medical terms (which are explained) and dosages. But she also gives good medical advice from the perspective of SHTF conditions, for average folks to be able to diagnose and adequately treat the sick. It's important to be able to tell WHEN (and which) antibiotics to give... and know the difference between say strep throat and an ear infection. No time or inclination at my age, to go to med school and learn all that.

I'm a ways into the book, but I usually reserve judgement until I finish it. Post that later. I ran across it, because of antibiotics. Yes, I know the herbals - and I also know the potency isn't going to be strong enough to do more than ameliorate symptoms... they may not cure. She mentions herbals, as alternatives, where relevant. Antibiotics are hard to come by and stockpile - yet will be absolutely necessary. I have found two that shouldn't be used after expiration date, because they become toxic. (Yeah, I'll have to look that up and write it down... 'coz no, I don't remember for sure; think it was tetrcycline and doxicyline - but don't quote me.)

This doc includes some information about fish antibiotics, available at pet supply stores. (who knew? I've never had an aquarium - fish are for eatin'.) I'm probably most interested in her opinion on the safety and efficacy of these. Throughout the book, she provides specific dosages of specific antibiotics for adults, kids and the infirm.

As a general rule, I've been adding to my first aid girl scout badge information since that age. I've always kept a decent amount of OTC meds/1st aid supplies because we lived in a rural setting and help wasn't reliable or close. And I have my stash of herbal remedies, too. But the more I thought about what happens, lets say in an extended off-grid society meltdown... the more I kept thinking about the usual communicable diseases prevalent in natural disaster scenarios and realized I now needed to learn about antibiotics.

Another thing I hadn't thought of but makes absolute sense to me, is to keep one's vaccines up to date. Tetanus, diptheria (which has been kinda making a comeback), etc for adults. And in some areas, it's relatively easy (but pricey) to get travel vaccines - as if you were going to a jungle for instance. There's even a rabies vaccine - but that might be harder to get if you're not working for a vet. Flu shots, pneumonia shots (if you need them)...

anyway, I'm off & rambling - more after I've digested the info. I'm not planning on walking off into the snow by choice (or in my area, swimming out to sea) if I can help it and I have something of value to offer.

[momma_to_seven_chi]

There's even a rabies vaccine - but that might be harder to get if you're not working for a vet.

You use to be able to buy it from Jeffers Pets. I assume they still have it? It isn't "legal" to be sufficient for dog tags in many states, but it is available. It use to be about $8 for a bottle that would last for 10-12 vaccines.
All zoonotic vaccines, like rabies, are dead vaccines, so you don't have to worry about them ever causing the disease itself.

Here's the link to the product. It looks different than what they use to sell and it is more. But if it works, then it works.
http://www.jefferspet.com/rabvac3/p/11538/

[grumble]

WHI, I tried to google the book and also looked on Amazon for it. No listings.

Do you have a source to buy the book? Thanks!

[whitehairedidiot]

Website is:

armageddonmedicine.net

So far, I have to say it's a pretty practical book. Like, discussion of when to treat - if you're not sure of diagnoses - how much medicine, alternatives, what to do if conditions worsen... and what it might be/ how contagious.

I like to have books like this around to consult -- before seeking conventional medical help -- in any case. Used to be, that's what people did. Try the "accepted" at-home treatment first before running to the doc. And I've had some pretty bad experiences at the hands of today's medical "professionals"... like to have some real ammo to argue with when they're out spending my insurance co.'s money... overtesting... jumping to eliminate the "worst case scenario" before treating the more common diagnosis... etc.

[grumble]

Thanks!

I'd like to get the book, with no strings, and without joining the "cult" that seems to go with it. I also don't want to use paypal (because of their anti-2nd Amendment policies), but it looks like that isn't possible either.

Guess I'll just have to wait for the book to be available on Amazon. Sounds like it's a book worth having!

[whitehairedidiot]

What "cult" was that? My hubs found & ordered the book for me... so I haven't been on their website. The book doesn't read that way at all. I'm really forming the opinion that it's viewpoint - how to "practice" medicine in a SHTF scenario with no medical experience around - is a great resource. Haven't gotten to the trauma chapters yet... and I am still reserving the right ultimately look for better sources of info.

I'm not a fan of paypal, either - but mine are techie reasons; didn't know they're anti-2nd. Twits.

[grumble]

I keep my eyes peeled for good medical references, and have several books now. The problem always seems to be too much or too little. Either they're very basic, or they use a lot of medical terms that take me longer to look up than to read the book. Sounds like this book is a happy medium.

The "cult" I mentioned was my impression of the website. "Survival medicine getaway weekends," "buy my extra-special resource kits," "get the REAL story on my members-only secret CD," and such-like. Maybe I'm just too sensitive to such things, but I still get spam from a place I ordered something from a couple years ago, always with "special membership offers."

But since you say it's just a straight up purchase thing, no strings, I'll reconsider.

[whitehairedidiot]

ah... now I get it. Yes, I'd be wary of junk-mail too. In any form. My hubby actually looks forward to it (it takes all types). So I can't say whether you'll be hounded via email or not. I usually unsubscribe after the couple, if it looks like they can't take silence for an answer.

[grumble]

Well, ok, now you done went and did it. I ordered the book. But beware, if it doesn't tell me how to remove my own appendix or plug in some replacement aortic stents, I'm gonna be mighty unhappy with you.

[whitehairedidiot]

caveat emptor? LOL...

I'll have plenty of time to finish reading. We're in the path of the first named Tropical Storm of the season - Alberto. Whee -- it's unusually early, but at least I feel kinda justified in getting my preps mostly together by now. These are usually just ugly wet, windy days of misery.