Help picking out a gun

[windmo]

I'm looking for a gun, and here are the specifics;

I'm a female.
Looking for a gun primarily for hunting purposes, but also as self-defense if needed.
We live in the Northwest. Lots of rain and moisture in the air.
The main source of wildlife would be deer. Everything else is smaller than a deer. Not likely to run into a bear, but they are around here too.
I have issues with my shoulders, so something with a lot of kick might not work for me.
I have very minimal experience shooting a gun, but have shot handguns as well as rifles. So I need something that doesn't require me to have perfect aim, at least at first. Basically I need something that's a good learning weapon.
Anything I've missed?

[grumble]

To key in on the one statement, "not require perfect aim," you should get a shotgun. Downside of that is the limited range, about 50 yards with most shot shells.

For everything else, a 44 magnum carbine came to mind. Minimal recoil, and you can also get a handgun that uses the same ammo, but with that, the recoil is pretty strong. You'll have a range of at least 150 yards.

But, as a fairly inexperienced shooter, my prime recommendation would be a .22 rifle, and add a .22 handgun later if you chose. A 22 magnum will do the same thing but with more power.

EXPECTING to not hit your target will mean not hitting your target every time. I strongly encourage you to get a gun you can practice with frequently. Low cost ammo, quiet, and almost no recoil at all will make practice a lot more fun. After you get to the point you can hit your target every time, you'll have a better feel for what might come next. A gun is a tool, not a one-type-for-everything thing. You wouldn't use a common screwdriver on a phillips head screw, and you shouldn't hunt deer with a little .22. Like the screwdrivers, you can make it work, but it isn't a good idea.

[farmerj]

if you get anything with a single projectile, shotgun, pistol or rifle, you will need "perfect aim". Not saying it has to be olympic quality, but that's another issue.

If you are going to go deer hunting with it, check your local game laws and your location. You may be limited to a shotgun.

from there, you can get as mean or as nice as you want it will be a matter of ammo selection and somewhat on the gun. some of the more tame 2 3/4" slugs aren't bad to shoot compared to a full powered magnum 3" slug.

Mossberg shotguns kick like a dickens for me. I don't like the recoil on them.

Consider what the laws are for hunting deer with a pistol. Just an option. But a lot more skill is required shooting wise.

[Ironclad]

Ms Windmo,
Welcome to... "The Club". Now that you are searching and hunting and shopping for guns; be aware...there is no end to this!! It doesnt matter that you are "a woman"...I bet you could handle any gun I got. Women can do it just as good as men, once they get the hang of it. It doesnt matter that this might be "your first gun". What does matter is this...now you have gotten started, there will probably be no end, to your fascination and love for firearms. Good On You.

Good On You!!... you have climbed the mountain and have overcome all the obstacles to get there. Now you're standing on the ridge-line, getting ready to go down into the valley-of-a-million guns.

Just do like the rest of us have done... buy every gun that you fall in love with. Sell some of them. Trade some of them. Hold on to the ones that shoot straight. Hold on to other guns that dont shoot straight just because you love them!!??

But, Be aware of this...these days it's not the gun...it's the ammunition!! The Federal Govt has an insidious backdoor program going on. They couldnt get the guns outlawed; so now they are messing with our ammunition!! Shotgun shells for example...they are "outlawing" lead shot shells and demanding shotshells to be made from moon-rocks. Please Lord, please...let us just give Kalifornia back to Mexico!!

Anyway... think ammunition; what will be available forever at a cheap or reasonable price. Think "common" calibers.

Rifle... get a 30-06, or a 30-30 (I just bought a .308) and lots of ammo!!
Rifle... you have to have a .22-LR...and lots of ammunition!!
Shotgun... get a twelve guage... and lots of ammunition(#4 and 00-Buck)
Handguns... get a .45-auto, and LOTS of ammunition!!

And then... buy MORE AMMUNITION !!!
--Ironclad

[MT4me]

Well, since you said you have bad shoulders but, want to hunt deer and smaller, and you live in the Northwest. (I grew up in WA). I would check out a .243 cal or .270. Both are very capable deer or even elk rifles. The latter of which is extremely fast and flat shooting (meaning accurate). Not sure how tall you are but, most women benefit from a youth sized stock. Ayoob had a good article on the subject last month. Its easily found from the home page. Neither of the riffles listed kick as much as the famed 30.06 or .308.
Now a good 30,30 could serve well but, its range is limited.

[God's Country]

The best all around versatile long gun is a shotgun. Especially since I got the impression you may want to hunt game other than deer. Because of your shoulders I see two choices, unless you are willing to learn to hunt with a scoped handgun.

1: See if a 20 gauge shotgun is tolerable. Most small game rounds should be fine, but some buckshot and slugs can still kick a bit. A 20 gauge will put lots of meat on the table.

2: Purchase two or three guns( it’s going to happen any way:D). There is no perfect all around gun. Although I feel a shotgun comes close it clearly has its limitations, primarily distance.
A .243 for deer, a .22 for certain furry critters, and a 20 gauge to fill in the blanks.

If a deer rifle is going to be used under 150yds it doesn’t take months and years to learn how to use it effectively. Most deer hunters take deer in timber country at far less distances than that, and most only shoot their rifles once or twice a year. I’m referring to a scoped rifle BTW. A scoped .22 is the same deal. You don’t need to be
Annie Oakley to drop squirrels from trees. And a 20 gauge shotgun can be learned fairly quickly. Shoot some clay pigeons with a friend and it will come to you. Again you don’t need to be a superb marksmen to handle a shotgun, and a 20g is quite tolerable.

[Ky.guy]

If your wanting one gun you might want to check out Rossi they have matched pairs and sets but they are single shot and you have the choice of shotgun or rifle.

[docsoos]

I'm looking for a gun, and here are the specifics;

I'm a female.

Congratulations.....makes no difference when it comes to firearms, except for the most heavily-recoiling magnum rifles, shotguns, and handguns.....all depends on what you can tolerate.

Looking for a gun primarily for hunting purposes, but also as self-defense if needed.
Most any mid- to large-caliber rifle or handgun should fill that bill.

We live in the Northwest. Lots of rain and moisture in the air.


In that case, I would suggest a weapon made of stainless-steel, or at the very least, an anti-corrosion coating applied to all surfaces....

A few examples:

http://www.marlinfirearms.com/Firearms/centerfire/336SS.asp

http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/centerfire/model-700/model-700-mountain-lss.aspx

http://www.savagearms.com/firearms/models/

All of these centerfire rifles can be had in mid-range to large calibers, and their stainless-steel construction is highly weather-resistant, but they DO require a through cleaning after they have been exposed to the elements.....they just don't rust as readily or as fast as a blued-steel weapon.

The main source of wildlife would be deer. Everything else is smaller than a deer. Not likely to run into a bear, but they are around here too.

As mentioned earlier, a .243 Caliber would be a good choice for Deer or smaller game, not much recoil, and deadly out to 200 yards or so.....other calibers to try would be a .30-30 Winchester, .270 Winchester, or 7mm-08, but the ammo for the latter is harder to find, .243 and .270 are common ammo calibers, usually available at any Wal-Mart or Mom & Pop Hardware Store. The .30-30 is the most common of all the calibers of Deer rifles, usually available anywhere ammuntion is sold....they are quite accurate out to 100+ yards, and the smaller-grain bullets (150 grains or less) don't kick TOO hard.

As for Bears, I'd want a bare minimum .270 to .30 Caliber or better weapon.....purposely going after Black Bears, a minimum .270 or .30-'06, and Grizzlies or Browns, a .338 Win Mag or better (kicks like the proverbial MULE).....but even a .30-30 will do in a pinch, with excellent shot placement....but NOT the first choice. :D

I have issues with my shoulders, so something with a lot of kick might not work for me.


That kinda leaves out a 12 Gauge shotgun, or any of the larger-caliber centerfire rifles, unless very light loads are used.....as mentioned earlier, a 20-Gauge shotgun with slugs would be a good median weapon, as would be a .243 or .30-30.....recoil may be negated somewhat by use of a slip-on recoil pad:

http://www.pachmayr.com/home/deceleraton-slip.php

.....and lighter loads for the caliber you select:

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=121561

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/default.aspx?productNumber=882105

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/default.aspx?productNumber=330519

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/default.aspx?productNumber=1601353369

I have very minimal experience shooting a gun, but have shot handguns as well as rifles. So I need something that doesn't require me to have perfect aim, at least at first. Basically I need something that's a good learning weapon.


The earlier posts suggesting a .22 rimfire rifle to learn on, with essentially NO recoil, are well-founded; a few current examples of good .22 LR rifles:

http://www.ruger.com/products/1022Carbine/models.html

http://www.marlinfirearms.com/Firearms/SelfLoading/60SS.asp

http://www.savagearms.com/firearms/models/

And in my opinion, the all-around best, most-accurate .22 rimfire handguns:

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=252305346

http://www.ruger.com/products/markIII/index.html

http://www.ruger.com/products/2245/index.html

These rifles and handguns can be used to learn accuracy, trigger control, breathing, etc., and still be utilized for many years to hunt small game, eliminate pests, or just target shoot for recreation.....I started my daughter out with a Ruger 10/22 rifle and a Ruger Mark II Target pistol when she was 10 years old, to learn the basics of safe firearms handling and accuracy, and she is now (at 20 years old) capable of shooting any high-powered rifle, or a 1911 Government Model .45 Auto handgun, better than most ANY man. :D

Good luck on your quest, let us know how it goes!

Shoot Safe,

DocSoos

[windmo]

You guys are the best! So much info to consider, but now I have some good starting points. Yes I think I will end up with several guns, knowing that not one can do everything I will need. I am getting excited about finding a good starter gun now!

Oh, if only all my former liberal friends could hear me say THAT lol.

Please keep the suggestions coming!

[Fortyfour]

We live just North of you in Washington. My wife has used her .357 Marlin for near 35 years. Very light with very low recoil for bad shoulders and very accurate. The only drawback is a fairly short range, though she did take one out to 150 yards quite a few years ago.

44

[windmo]

fortyfour, that is excellent advice - do you live on the wet or the dry side of Washington? If it's the wet side, how do your guns hold up in the moisture?

[JohnNH]

Lots of good advice and ideas around here. My only suggestion would be to find/visit a couple of shooting ranges in your area. I have found my local range to be a good resource for hunting firearm information and 'hands on' experience. Good luck to you.

[HuntingHawk]

My question to you would be what ranges do you expect to shoot? With the size game & range that dictates what caliber you need for a minimum.

Also, when you hunt where there are predator animals, you want a handgun that can stop them. When you drop a deer the blood smell can be detected for miles bu bear, wolves, cougar, etc.
The reason for the handgun is you will have your rifle propped up out of the way when cleaning the animal. The handgun will always be on your hip. A revolver is the best choice. I recommend minimum of a 357mag.

As per your not doing perfect shooting, have you tried a rifle with a scope?

HuntingHawk

[Michael32170]

I'm looking for a gun, and here are the specifics;

I'm a female.
Looking for a gun primarily for hunting purposes, but also as self-defense if needed.
We live in the Northwest. Lots of rain and moisture in the air.
The main source of wildlife would be deer. Everything else is smaller than a deer. Not likely to run into a bear, but they are around here too.
I have issues with my shoulders, so something with a lot of kick might not work for me.
I have very minimal experience shooting a gun, but have shot handguns as well as rifles. So I need something that doesn't require me to have perfect aim, at least at first. Basically I need something that's a good learning weapon.
Anything I've missed?

I've heard said, the .223 rem is well suited for women. But, I'd still go to the range and try one before buying.

[HuntingHawk]

Check local laws as some places require minimum of .30 caliber for deer hunting.

HuntingHawk

[cmdan]

Unless I missed it, didn't see anyone mention the .243, which is the smallest caliber you can hunt deer with in Washington state. I have never fired that caliber but wouldn't think it would have very much recoil. Most ranges will give some training for free if you ask. It can also be used for some smaller animals ok. Plus you still have good distance with it.

An AR-10 would have less recoil too, it shoots a 308 round, if I remember right. Plenty big for pretty much anything in the lower 48.

Hope you find what your looking for.

If your in So WA or OR a place to check for guns is

http://www.northwestfirearms.com/forum.php

Scroll down to the classifieds and look around. Kind of give you an idea of what they are going for. I've bought off that and other sites and had nothing but good experiences.

[Westcliffe01]

To the original poster:
You don't mention anything regarding eyesight...

I have a little arthritis, but my main limitation is eyesight. When I was in the service, I was a really crap shot with iron sights. I am short sighted, have astigmatism as well as "floaters". Basically, for me iron sights are something of last resort. There are plenty of people who shoot better that I ever will with Iron sights, but one has to accept your limitations and deal with them, everything else is a waste of time.

In middle age, I came to realize that optical sights have really come a long ways, both from a cost and quality point of view. I spent a little over $700 on 2 scopes for my 7.62x39 AR15 (shoots the AK round with about as much power as a 303) and my Remington 8x57. I have shot both rifles to just about 1" groups at 100 yards, and I will admit that is after a troubleshooting process that required work on both rifles. But compare that to my youth when I could hardly put all shots on a man sized silhouette at 100 yards and it gives you an idea of how much better I shoot.

The best weapon is a very personal matter, and your budget is a big factor in that. The latest generation of semi auto weapons have a lot going for them, including being short, very accurate, folding stocks (much better for in a vehicle or inside a building) and a lot lighter in weight compared to "old iron". The ones I am thinking of are the FN Scar 16 or 17 (223 or 308), the FN FS2000 (223), the Rock River PSD carbines.

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/images/D11/72/72745.jpg

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/images/D11/58/58146.jpg

http://www.rockriverarms.com/images/products/rpds_car11.gif

The reason I mention Budget is because the FN examples are about $2300 - $2800. The RRA PDS Carbine is considerably less at about $1200 (market price).

If 223 will not serve your needs, look at the Scar 17S in 308, as well as the FN FNAR which is also a 308 and about $1400. In addition in the same price range you can get an AR10 or clone by DPMS, Bushmaster etc. All the weapons I mentioned previously are gas piston driven which do not channel powder gasses into the action, the way all the "regular" AR weapons do (including the AR10 and AR15 variants).

I personally own an AR15 and cleaning it is a messier chore than any gas piston weapon I have owned or used. It does not help in my case that I shoot corrosive surplus millitary ammo ($200 for about 1200 rounds).

The advantage of any of the weapons I mentioned compared to a bolt action is that the recoil is quite a bit milder. One can fit a muzzle break onto a bolt gun to reduce recoil too, but it costs a fair amount, makes the muzzle blast a lot louder and increases overall length. One can use a bolt gun for defense, but having a weapon that accepts magazines that hold 20 rounds goes a long way to being in a position to fight. Recovery time and keeping the sights on target are all better with a semi auto. Bolt guns usually win out in the very long range scenarios, but that is not a common defensive scenario and they are certainly worse at close quarters.

The alternative (may be dependent on hunting laws) is a long range 223 pistol. Kel-Tec has the PLR 16 which has a 9.2" barrel and very good accuracy if you do your part and have an optical sight. It can be carried concealed (meaning in your car loaded) if you have a concealed pistol license). This can be a very good option for defense and OK for hunting deer with the right ammo (if allowed by state law)
http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/images/D11/23/23498.jpg

[SmokepoleShooter]

20 guage 870 express youth model. The youth model has a shorter butt stock which means it will fit better and the percieved recoil will be less. They also have screw in chokes so you can adjust your shot pattern. You can also swap out barrels and put a rifled slug barrel on for larger game. The 870 is extremely reliable, and very adaptable. I bought my son one for Christmas and it fits my wife perfectly. (She's about 5'3").