Credit Cards

[dkemple1]

Just finished watching a documentary on PBS tonight. It was on Frontline, and it was called "Secrets of Credit Cards" or something to that effect. It really makes me mad about what these companies are allowed to do. I do have 1 Credit card and I am really working to pay it off. Did anyone else see this program? What are all your thoughts about this giant scheme? I think the US population has been brainwashed into thinking we need credit, I am just as guilty as everyone else, but I am GOING to change my thinking, starting right now. Sorry to rant on, but it really bugs me how the rich just keep getting richer and the poor keep getting poorer.

Dan

[edward_4576]

My wife called me about it as well. The honest fact is that yes we are being brain washed, or to be more correct, conditioned. Black Friday, sheesh, doesn't anyone get it? The middle class is shrinking and government spending is growing. How do you make money? Make people want more. Think about it, we are being conditioned/trained at birth to be good consumers. Everything is measured in GDP, why do huge conglomerates have "human resource" departments. The thought of an implantable chip should scare the dickens out of people.

But in the end all the sheeple can do is Baa-Baaa. When people like us figure this stuff out we become "ostracized" and portrayed as wacko survivalists. I don't know how many people know this but the manufacturing of CRT (cathode ray tubes) or TV screens has become obsolete, everything is plasma/LCD. All stations are going digital/High Def so that older TV's won't work. Time to buy a new one. Game stations change their format just about every year. Why? So that you have to have a new one. Why is this a disposable society, because "they" want us to keep on buying.

The idea of a self sufficient society that relies on no one is close to blasphemy to some people. The idea that we don't need all that "stuff" may one day become the worst crimes on the books. Just the other day a person was killed in a store hold up, the TV reporter made the following ending statement, "the victim later died at the hospital but police reported that nothing was missing from the store."

[bee_pipes]

Amen!

The things they are doing to try and attract and predict consumers are particularly disturbing. Studies on colors, smells, etc. to get desired reactions from us. And they have the nerve to crow about it - like it is a good thing.

In the past I have had jobs from time to time that were close to the business end of things. I have never been able to understand why increases in business were the overriding priority. If you did not increase sales by a certain amount, it was a bad month. The working model in modern business can't survive on just keeping good customers - the business has to be actively growing each month or it is dying. Sounds crazy, doesn't it?

My wife and I each have one card for use on the internet. They get paid off each month. Debit cards are used for gasoline and groceries. We rarely have cash anymore.

Credit is not necessary, but it does make it easier to get into a house or get a replacement vehicle. Most of us are not fortunate enough to have the money up front, as few of us are.

We have reached a point in life where we paid off the house and vehicles. We made double and triple mortgage payments when possible. Right now all we have are monthly expenses, and if we can succeed in getting off the grid, nothing but taxes and food we can't raise ourselves. That makes us of no interest to the general marketing approach, but it still doesn't stop the credit card offers from coming in. Worst part is, if someone fishes my junk mail out and uses the application to steal my identity, I'm responsible for it. I didn't ask for the mail, but now it's my problem.

The news the other morning put up a number that is supposed to put you on a "no mail" list for credit card companies. 1-888-5 OPT OUT. We tried it - don't know if it works yet - could just be another clever ploy to get marketing information... we shall see.

If you can't pay off your cards each month, cut them up. If you find yourself buying things that you wouldn't buy without cards, cut them up. When the tool uses you, that's a bad place to be - I've been there.

I enjoyed reading your posts, and was happy not to participate in Black Friday or Monday - let the feeding frenzy happen without me.

Regards,
Pat

[MNMOM]

My hubby uses a credit card when he travels, but then he is then reimbursed by the company. We pay it off every month. We've never fallen into the trap of using credit cards for credit. This has been a trap for so many people.
We've always saved for what we want, it's better than having instant gratification and all that interest to pay for.
As for Black Friday, I use to work in the Mall and I always had to work on Black Friday, you'll never get me near a store on that week-end, it's the week-end where most shop-lifting takes place and you know who pays for that, don't you?

[bee_pipes]

Ugh! Retail!

If my luck holds, I'll never work retail again.Just try getting the day off on black friday - might cost you your job. The places I've worked that was a day for "all hands on deck". Really does a job on the holidays for you when your job makes you look at it as retail ordeals.

Still, if I need the money, retail is always has work...

Enjoyed your post - a real reminder some folks are able to pay as they go.

Regards,
Pat

[gump]

Wow Edward, that post is pretty accurate if you ask me. Nice summary.

[edward_4576]

Thanks Gump, something I'm looking at now is credit scores. According to what I'm hearing if you pay off your card every month it actually reflects negatively on your credit score. I've also heard that if you have less then 3 cards it also has a negative impact on your credit score. Any one know anything about that?

[JakeLeg]

haven't used one in years. don't plan on it either. the credit reporting agencies can kiss my butt. we do everything we can to (a) not use any kind of credit, and (b) if we MUST use some sort of credit, to pay it off as quickly as possible

on the (a) note, we buy everything - from groceries to clothes to yard equipment to vehicles with cash. we pay the entire auto insurance bill at once to avoid the monthly payment fees. etc. etc.

on the (b) note, i wrote a post a coupe months ago about how we paid off one of the mortgages (we were forced to get 2 when we bought the farm) which was a 15 year mortgage in 2 years. while the mortgage company thought they were gonna make 22,500 bucks off us in interest, we paid only 3000 in interest since we paid it off so quickly. screw 'em. only other loan is the student loan and that is being paid off in very large sums each month. screw 'em.

furthermore we have used the "Opt Out" feature from the credit agencies which lets you opt out from receiving unsolicited credit card offers.

[CarolAnn]

When debit cards came out years and years ago, I refused to have one. Time goes on, and a couple of years ago, I got one without asking for it when I opened up a new checking account. It said VISA on it - and it looked just like a real credit card. In fact, it can be used just like a real credit card in that you sign the store's receipt - but the money comes out of your checking account that night.

No fool like an old fool. I have also refused credit cards over the years, but this perked up my ego enough to accept it. Having my card number stolen last summer was an awakening.

"Auto pay" is also a headache - even my utility company hit my account twice for the same bill and I had a heck of a time getting the money back. Yesterday a restaurant charged me twice and now I've got to go through all that crap again.

Besides the inducements to buy more than we want or need and the immoral interest rates, just having that piece of plastic is more trouble than it's woth when people get their fingers into your bank account and abuse it!

Plastic is BAD!
>:(

[DM]

I'm not seeing the problem here?? I have two creddit cards and nobody forced me to take them and nobody forces me to use them! And i do use them!

I also pay them off at the end of every month. They are FREE (to me) and cost me nothing. In fact i get points for useing them and get FREE things with the points...

If i walk into a place that gives a discount for cash, i pay with cash... Seems pretty simple to me...

So, once again i can't see how they are hurting me or anyone else by me haveing and useing one...

DM

[JBinKC]

Nothing wrong with them if you pay the bill in full when its due and on time but they sure throw you curveballs like a due date on a bank holiday so you might screw up and pay late so they can justify adjusting your rates.

I use the internet to pay them as well as all my bills so I can avoid postage costs as well as maximize the time use of the money.

[desdawg]

*I'm not seeing the problem here?? *I have two creddit cards and nobody forced me to take them and nobody forces me to use them! *And i do use them!

*I also pay them off at the end of every month. *They are FREE (to me) and cost me nothing. *In fact i get points for useing them and get FREE things with the points...

*If i walk into a place that gives a discount for cash, i pay with cash... *Seems pretty simple to me...

*So, once again i can't see how they are hurting me or anyone else by me haveing and useing one...

*DM
I'm with DM on this. A credit card is just a tool and like all tools needs to be used properly. I have one card that sends me a check every now and again depending on how much I use it. It does require discipline.

[machinemaker]

I find it interesting we live in a country that does not save money. The citizens of the USA on average save a negative 2% where in other countries they save up to 20%. This is hard to believe when you think that the rich in this country do save, the poor may have debt but not huge amounts and this is all added into the average, so who has all that debt? When I drive down off of this mountain I live on, I drive through an affluent area of 6000' houses that are mortgaged to the hilt and you would not have your kids drive to school in anything worst than a new or year or two old Lexus,BMW or SUV. Its a crazy world and its hard not to be envious as I drive through it. Some of these people make a large salary, but most are in amazing debt. Our whole concept of a middle class was built on cheap oil fifty years ago, but those days are gone. So what does the future hold?

Here is a great book for getting your finances in order: Financial Peace, by Dave Ramsey

[ryanmercer]

Here is a great book for getting your finances in order: Financial Peace, by Dave Ramsey


Thanks, checked it out on Amazon has good reviews... so I bought a used copy for 98 cents and 4$ shipping :)

[Poisian]

It isn't just credit cards. Our entire monetary system is based on fraud, debt, and criminal activity, and needs to be replaced with a sound money system.

"The Creature From Jekyll Island" by G. Edward Griffin is a must read.

[jott]

I know people hate credit cards but I use mine for everything generally if I can’t buy it with the card I don’t buy it. When I was using cash all the time it seemed all I was doing was going to the ATM. Since I started using only the cards I have greatly increased how much I put in savings since I put all my income in my savings account then once a month I look at all my bills and transfer just want I need to pay to my checking account. Also when I paid with cash I was always worried about money and can I get something or if I’m spending too much. Now I could not care less about money on a day to day basis, I don’t need to keep track of anything once a month I get a bill that tells me exactly how much I’m spending. When I find I’m leaving less in savings then I want I just look at my bill and I can see exactly what I spent it on. Then I can say oh eating out is costing lots of money I will try to pack lunch more. It just makes it so easy I don’t have to micro mange my life and keep track of things.

On another note yea credit cards do have lots of fees but I have never paid them. Yes I have messed up and forgot to pay on time or got the payment in a day late. But I just made a phone call and 5 min latter it was all taken care of. Once when I moved I forgot to have the bill sent to the new address and since I did not see a bill I did not think about it. Finally I got online sent them a payment almost a month late then called them up said sorry and in no time all fees and finance charges where dropped. Only once did a company tell me they could not do anything for me and I told them I did not want the card and then they took care of it.

I pay my bill every month and I never pay a fee but they still make lots of money off me since they charge businesses a small fee every time I use my card. They know that they make much more off me that way. They would not risk me going to another card over one little fee.

Credit companies know that people that call them are much more likely to pay off in the long run, and they know people that call are much more likely cancel there account if they are not happy. My advice is always call them if you get a fee, pay the bill before you call them (not if you are disputing a charge). If they don’t want to help you out tell them you don’t want to do business with them and cancel the card.

My worry in life now is I have work very hard and put a good amount of money in savings. What happens if the economy tanks and my dollars become worthless because of all the people that charge everything and have no plan to pay for it.

[Funkhouser]

I have three (3) credits cards...two store cards and a secured credit card. The balance of all of them together comes out to just over a thousand dollars (and falling). I will keep the secured card for travelling purposes (ever try making reservations of any kind without one?), but as far the others...they can be cut up for all I care.

[mtwildflower]

should scare the dickens out of people. *

*I don't know how many people know this but the manufacturing of CRT (cathode ray tubes) or TV screens has become obsolete, everything is plasma/LCD. *All stations are going digital/High Def so that older TV's won't work. *Time to buy a new one. *Game stations change their format just about every year. *Why? *So that you have to have a new one. *Why is this a disposable society, because "they" want us to keep on buying.


I realize this is off topic, but I wanted to addess this since it was mentioned here.

My husband and I were talking about this the other night. Congress has actually mandated that all television signals switch from analog to digital after The Superbowl 2009. The reason for this is that analog signals take up more bandwidth than digital ones. That's why your old analog TVs only go from channel 2 to 53 ( I think...maybe 54?), because that's all the FCC allows for television stations. And in turn, it's why your FM radio goes from 88.1 to 107.9 only. They aren't allowed any more space on the bandwidth than that.

When broadcasting, one station is not allowed to interfere with the signal of another station, but now, with higher demands for cell phones, local stations on sattelite TV, and a radio station popping up on every corner, the demand for bandwidth is very high. With a digital signal, you can cram more on the bandwidth without interference, than you can on an analog.

Since this is a mandate by Congress, it is required to be funded as the airwaves are public domain. Which is why you can get a $40 rebate or coupon from the government to get a box that will allow your analog TV to accept a digital signal. So don't give up on the analog TV just yet.

Personally, I prefer not to watch TV and be inundated by all the crap that comes from it.

[Buck]

I realize this is off topic, but I wanted to addess this since it was mentioned here.
The reason for this is that analog signals take up more bandwidth than digital ones. That's why your old analog TVs only go from *channel 2 to 53 ( I think...maybe 54?), because that's all the FCC allows for television stations. And in turn, it's why your FM radio goes from 88.1 to 107.9 only. They aren't allowed any more space on the bandwidth than that.
(snip)
Since this is a mandate by Congress, it is required to be funded as the airwaves are public domain. Which is why you can get a $40 rebate or coupon from the government to get a box that will allow your analog TV to accept a digital signal. *So don't give up on the analog TV just yet.


Well, not quite. The driving force behind the whole analog/digital
issue was simple greed by the broadcasting industry. They saw
an opportunity to DOUBLE the amount of channels ,and other
broadcast services, by ADDING digital channels to their analog business
stable to sell. The FCC , smart for once, said NO, ONE OR THE OTHER
BUT NOT BOTH.

That said, I kinda think it's unfair to make taxpayers foot the bill
for all the converter boxes. However, the broadcasting industry is
going to get mega rich off all the new media recording or play
back machines now that they've very quietly cut off all the VCR/DVD
recorders which can't record digital channels. >:(

[edward_4576]

The whole thing is about greed, I have never seen the quality of a digitial picture ran through a converter to an analog TV. If the picture is bad enough people might get a new TV anyway. Secondly if anyone has seen digital radio in some of the larger stations they can cause information to be displayed on your radio such as station artist, album name, spnser. Who says that won't be able to do that with new Digitial TV? Heck we have to put up with those lousy station Icons on our TV, how about mini commercials?

Also consider you have to plug in another box, who's paying for the extra AC that you use? What happens when you analog TV does die? throw it away and the converter? It's all about consumption, why else is Uncle Sam sending every one 600 bucks? 600 bucks doesn't sound lke a lot and if you have been properly conditioned you'll go out and spend it on something frivolous.

I say buy food or ammo or pre 69 silver coins. Screw the stuff from China....

[idealist]

It isn't just credit cards. Our entire monetary system is based on fraud, debt, and criminal activity, and needs to be replaced with a sound money system.

"The Creature From Jekyll Island" by G. Edward Griffin is a must read.

Absolutely. Bring back the gold standard!

[Holding_Pattern]

We got into trouble by not using credit cards...we paid everything off and did not use them...a year later, we have terrible credit. Who woullda thunk it?

[tufhelp]

These credit card pirates and visa vie the credit reporting companies have us by the short and curlies. They rape you if you get caught in the revolving credit syndrome, they punish you if you’re late, they punish you if you shake the habit and keep the cards but don’t use them, and you get punished if you close out all or most of the cards you don’t use… WTHO!!! :-/

Apparently in the credit industries eyes a perfect rating is you in debt to the gunnels, and stuck there in perpetuity. >:(