Here come da Judge !!!

[snuffy]

I just got my Am. Rifleman from NRA and they had a review of that new Taurus 45/410 revolver.
I want one!!! ;D
The stats look pretty good to me and it fills several slots & needs in the personal defense area imo.
Besides, it looks like a barrel of fun!!!
Now, what can I sell to get the money, Hmmmm?
Check it out. Does anyone own one yet???
If ya do, I want to hear how you like it.

Snuffy

[ArmySGT.]

BATF will come down on the Taurus .45LC/.410 just like the the Thunder Five. Shortly it will be declared a destruct device (DD) or Any Other Weapon (AOW) and will be restricted or have to be registered.

I am curious why you think it fills several slots and needs in personal defence? It is an average, but oversized (heavy) 5 shot revolver in a cowboy caliber and a .410 shot gun with a possibly 6 inch barrel. Best niche I can see for it is a bush pilot gun. That way the pilot has a gun on him in case of a forced landing.

[snuffy]

BATF will come down on the Taurus .45LC/.410 just like the the Thunder Five. Shortly it will be declared a destruct device (DD) or Any Other Weapon (AOW) and will be restricted or have to be registered.

I am curious why you think it fills several slots and needs in personal defense? It is an average, but over-sized (heavy) 5 shot revolver in a cowboy caliber and a .410 shot gun with a possibly 6 inch barrel. Best niche I can see for it is a bush pilot gun. That way the pilot has a gun on him in case of a forced landing.


According to the article:::: :) :D Federal law mandates that a shotgun---with a smooth bore---cannot have a barrel less than 18" in length, unless it is registered under the NFA; so a non-NFA that can shoot .45 Colt and .410 shot-shells must be rifled. The Judge is a 3" barreled revolver with a rifled tube that handles a .45 Colt very nicely, but also accepts 2.5" 410 shot-shells. The rifling is a shallow, slow-twist style that will not overly disperse a charge of fine shot. It spins the solid .45 Colt well enough to deliver modest accuracy at least to the 25-yd mark. It is completely legal, not an AFA "sawed-off" shotgun, and is purchased just as you would a "standard handgun.

It will safely fire all types of .45 colt ammunition, as well as .45 Schofield; and it takes the gamut of 2 & one-half .410 shot-shells, including a one-forth-oz. slug, several sizes of shot and the unique #000 buckshot load.
The size(with a 3" barrel, the Judge is seven-one half inches long by five & three-quarters" high and weighs 29 oz. empty.) makes it a great hide-out gun. It is a close up,down & dirty back-alley gun. Easily hidden, it's a good choice for back-up, IMHO.
The variety of shot-shells gives it some uses for small game.
I like guns that fill more than one role of use and I think that this new Judge gives the owner a range of uses to chose from as needed.
Snuffy

[ArmySGT.]

According to the article:::: :) :D Federal law mandates that a shotgun---with a smooth bore---cannot have a barrel less than 18" in length, unless it is registered under the NFA; so a non-NFA that can shoot .45 Colt and .410 shot-shells must be rifled. The Judge is a 3" barreled revolver with a rifled tube that handles a .45 Colt very nicely, but also accepts 2.5" 410 shot-shells. The rifling is a shallow, slow-twist style that will not overly disperse a charge of fine shot. It spins the solid .45 Colt well enough to deliver modest accuracy at least to the 25-yd mark. It is completely legal, not an AFA "sawed-off" shotgun, and is purchased just as you would a "standard handgun.

This is the Thunder five http://www.thunder5.com/docs1.html This gun has been around for a few years now. Generated all of the same excitement and faded away. The ATF was and probably still seeking a ruling to declare this a shotgun regardless of the rifled barrel. Three States have banned this gun and will no doubt outlaw the Taurus clone too.

It will safely fire all types of .45 colt ammunition, as well as .45 Schofield; and it takes the gamut of 2 & one-half .410 shot-shells, including a one-forth-oz. slug, several sizes of shot and the unique #000 buckshot load.
The size(with a 3" barrel, the Judge is seven-one half inches long by five & three-quarters" high and weighs 29 oz. empty.) makes it a great hide-out gun. It is a close up,down & dirty back-alley gun. Easily hidden, it's a good choice for back-up, IMHO.
The variety of shot-shells gives it some uses for small game.
I like guns that fill more than one role of use and I think that this new Judge gives the owner a range of uses to chose from as needed.
Snuffy A HUGE, heavy, difficult to conceal, five shooter for a backup? Is is not ‘easily’ hidden except under a large coat or in a bag. Would be a pain in the ass to try and wear concealed in a holster. Hunting? Shot from a three inch barrel…… What? Even with the seven in barrel I don’t see much success with the rifling really screwing up the shot pattern. The rifling is going to cause the shot to flex, shift, twist, and deform. The effect will be like billiard balls struck by a cue ball. The shot will scatter differently with each shot, have inconsistent gaps in the pattern, and I can only imagine what steel shot would do to the rifling needed to stabilize the 45 LC. No Sir this is a gimmick, not good at really any thing.

[panzer426]

It has a rifled barrel, slightly so it doesn't spray the shot everywhere. The Taurus 45/410 has been around for a while. I too just got my American Rifleman with this article and was very surprised to see that article. I don't have one but my father got his Model 45 Ten (Taurus website doesn't mention the Judge yet) in 2003. http://www.taurususa.com/products/product-details.cfm?id=199&category=Revolver
And he loves it. It can handle +p loads that pack a big punch, and any load of 410, including slugs that CAN be superior, ballistically, to the 41 magnum.

The Thunder 5 is also still readily available (as easy to get as any other handgun) in all states EXCEPT California, New York and Maryland.

My father doesn't carry his around town, but he does carry it around the ranch and in the woods (concealed) where open carry is not an option. It actually conceals a lot more easily than his Ruger GP 100 4 inch and my Colt Python, also 4 inch.

[ArmySGT.]

The Taurus 45/410 has been around for a while. I too just got my American Rifleman with this article and was very surprised to see that article. I don't have one but my father got his Model 45 Ten (Taurus website doesn't mention the Judge yet) in 2003. http://www.taurususa.com/products/product-details.cfm?id=199&category=Revolver
And he loves it. It can handle +p loads that pack a big punch, and any load of 410, including slugs that CAN be superior, ballistically, to the 41 magnum.

The Thunder 5 is also still readily available (as easy to get as any other handgun) in all states EXCEPT California, New York and Maryland.

My father doesn't carry his around town, but he does carry it around the ranch and in the woods (concealed) where open carry is not an option. It actually conceals a lot more easily than his Ruger GP 100 4 inch and my Colt Python, also 4 inch.

date=07/20/07 at 07:48:44]It has a rifled barrel, slightly so it doesn't spray the shot everywhere. [/quote] What is a slightly rifled barrel? Eh ? What? Let me clarify for you. When I said this
Hunting? Shot from a three inch barrel…… What? Even with the seven in barrel I don’t see much success with the rifling really screwing up the shot pattern. The rifling is going to cause the shot to flex, shift, twist, and deform. The effect will be like billiard balls struck by a cue ball. The shot will scatter differently with each shot, have inconsistent gaps in the pattern, and I can only imagine what steel shot would do to the rifling needed to stabilize the 45 LC. No Sir this is a gimmick, not good at really any thing.
What I mean is the shot is going to flex, shift, twist, and deform inside the barrel. .410 shot without a shot cup is going to come out of the barrel so inconsistently as to be near useless for bird hunting. Shooting snakes at 8 ft? Sure, great enjoy. Lets see the shot pattern at 20 yards, 30 yards. Easy irregular, with gaps in the pattern, not circular with an even distribution of shot like a good shotgun should pattern.

Next up…… Why bother shooting .410 slugs out this gun anyway. The slugs are a smaller diameter, lighter in weight, and have less powder to propel them. The 45LC will completely engage the rifling, and surpass all the other three categories as well as being accurate for a much greater distance.

Concealment? Well anything can be concealed. Around the ranch and the woods is not the same as the hustle and bustle in a crowded social setting. What would pass in the woods would look really odd in the suburbs or the city.

[panzer426]

I think you are judging this gun on different criteria than it was designed to meet.

The rifling is very slight and gradual twist. At 20 yards #4 shot is deffinitely on the target...good for hunting quail, dove etc? No but then it wasn't meant to be used for that.

Concealable? Your right about anything being concealable but once again, it wasn't designed to be a daily concealed carry weapon.

Matched with a 45/410 single shot rifle and you have a great wilderness combo.

Some people have a use for this type of gun, you obviously don't, and in all honesty neither do I. That doesn't mean it doesn't perform incredibly in the role for which it was designed.

[Old_John]

Yeah-but...............
Bond Arms and American Derringer have been making
Remington style derringers, for a few years, the will fire a .45Colt shel and a .410 shotgun shell too.
I've had mine about 4 or 5 years.

And they easily tuck into your coat pocket.

There's also that little all-steel, side-by-side 2 brrl.
derringer, made in Tennessee, I think.
It'll handle .410 ga. and .45 Colt, as well.
Those are cheap. Like, under $200, last I saw them.
Kick like a mad mule. But, great, for snakes.
Oh, they make a single brrl. like it too.
Carry one, when I'm out mowing the hillsides with the DR Brushmower.
Have Fun, now.

[panzer426]

My old man has one of those as well, the SxS 45/410 derringer. He likes his Taurus better because of the larger grip (get a better hold of it), sturdier construction (better balance, stronger materials, less muzzle flip), greater capacity (5 shots instead of 1), better sights, and according to him...better accuracy. Just because it isn't the only 45/410 out there doesn't mean it has no worth. Colt still makes 1911's in 45acp so why buy a S&W/Para/Kimber/SA/Wilson/Les Baer/Sig/Etc?

I'm not saying everyone needs one, just saying that it does have a niche.

[ArmySGT.]

I think you are judging this gun on different criteria than it was designed to meet. The original postr claimed this gun is great fo survival and personal defense. I judged the “Judge” on those criteria and find it lacking as a survival arm and mediocre as a personal defense arm.

The rifling is very slight and gradual twist. At 20 yards #4 shot is deffinitely on the target...good for hunting quail, dove etc? No but then it wasn't meant to be used for that. Have to see for myself, when I can get my hands on the article. Though I have not seen a bad review of a firearm in more than a decade, have you?

Concealable? Your right about anything being concealable but once again, it wasn't designed to be a daily concealed carry weapon. Knocks it out of the personal protection category. If you can’t carry the gun it is not much protection. If you kept it for the home why then limit yourself to a five shot revolver? If you are venturing into a “bad’ neighborhood why would you go with a five shot revolver in a cowboy caliber? Let alone loading it with OOO buck. Throw in plastic hulls sticking in the cylinder, and the distinct possibility of pieces of the hull protruding out of the cylinder after firing, causing the cylinder not to rotate or open.

Matched with a 45/410 single shot rifle and you have a great wilderness combo. Carrying to guns in one caliber is a good thought. I would prefer 44 Mag. Better to team a large center fire with a .22 rimfire.

Some people have a use for this type of gun, you obviously don't, and in all honesty neither do I. That doesn't mean it doesn't perform incredibly in the role for which it was designed.
The only thing I can get from your replys is that your dad takes his Taurus 45 Ten with him whne taking walks in the woods. So if it is for shooting snakes great. What other role are you implying? A .22 revolver will do the same thing. So please define the role as you see it for the benfit of us who have not read the article.

[panzer426]

Once again, not saying everyone needs one. Just saying that some people have a need or at least a desire for this type of gun.

By the way, the cylinder is long enough that after the 410 fies and the shell opens up, it doesn't even come to the end of the cylinder, let alone catch on anything beyond the cylinder.

http://www.taurususa.com/video/taurus-theJudge-video.cfm

The only difference between the 45 Ten and the Judge is the Judge says "The Judge".

[commonsense]

I have a Judge. I find it to be a very good for around the homestead,it is good to keep the critters from turning your garden into a free buffet. The 45lc will deter larger critters 2/4 leg.


If you think there will be trouble with hordes of mutants by all means have something else ready. The Judge will do till you reach that one.

[ArmySGT.]

Once again, not saying everyone needs one. Just saying that some people have a need If the firearm does not meet the criteria how can their be a need for the firearm?

or at least a desire for this type of gun.
Desire is closer to the truth. Everybody just wants the cool new toy. Show off at the range with your sexy new consumer product.

By the way, the cylinder is long enough that after the 410 fies and the shell opens up, it doesn't even come to the end of the cylinder, let alone catch on anything beyond the cylinder. The plastic hulls are more prone to failure. The build up of plastic residue can cause stuck shells. The ends of the shells can partially tear away instead of unfold, causing the cylinder jam. The large amount of unburnt powder due to firing out of a 3 inch barrel instead of 18 inches will increase fouling and throw a sizable muzzle flash. I have no doubt it works great with 45LC but, this just makes it a fiver shooter in a cowboy caliber.

http://www.taurususa.com/video/taurus-theJudge-video.cfm

The only difference between the 45 Ten and the Judge is the Judge says "The Judge".

I accept that people may desire the Judge as it is the shiny new cool toy of the moment. I do not accept that it is a suitable personal defense arm or one for survival purposes. Though it does retain merit as a snake gun , it does not suit as a weapon for getting small game at reasonable distances one would expect.

[ArmySGT.]

I have a Judge. I find it to be a very good for around the homestead,it is good to keep the critters from turning your garden into a free buffet. The 45lc will deter larger critters 2/4 leg. Eh? Well I am sure Taurus would like your endorsement. Not a very scientific review though. A beater .410 single shot fits this bill as well

If you think there will be trouble with hordes of mutants by all means have something else ready. The Judge will do till you reach that one.
let me get this straight, your going to carry one gun; so you can get to a better gun? Well that acknowledges that it is an improper personal protection arm.

So this is another I want it because I want it type post. Good for you, if you want it, buy it. Justify anyway you desire. Just don’t expect me to believe your justifications.

[commonsense]

Sgt:

I am sure Tauraus is upset over your review and no doubt will consider changes since you have spoken.

I would rather carry a revolver with five shots than be burdened with a long gun, when around the place.

As to my other point, it is not pratical to carry a AR or combat shotgun when trying to do chores. It is far better to have the Judge than nothing will you retreive the proper weapon for the problem. At the proper distance I would have no problem with the new .410 buckshot loads. I know of nothing who has walked away from a soild hit of 45LC, in any event their behavior would be altered.

I still say that the Judge is a multipurpose weapon that can handle most homestead needs and is capable of letting you get to your other weapons.

The function of any handgun is to allow you to fight your way to your long gun.

[panzer426]

Armysgt, I get it. You have no use for one and for your purposes it would be a fun toy at best. I am not trying to convert you to the Judge, I too have no use for one and probably wont ever get one even even for fun.

I personally cannot stand mini vans and have no use for one. Heck, I even argue that a good suv can do anything a mini van can do and then some. That doesn't mean I am blind to the possibility that others might have a use for one.

I understand your point(s) but (just my opinion) you are starting to sound like you are arguing the point just for the sake of arguing.

[Old_John]

The Judge??

Looks like a great gun for those Folks that belong
to the "Gun of the Month Club".

But........Buy it if ya like it.

Any bets on how long Taurus will be keeping it in their Catalogue?
They did away with their .45 Colt and .44 special models.

I give it about 2 or 3 years........maybe.
Have Fun

[Tuckahoe]

I had a TC Contender in 45/.410 and it was a fun handgun to shoot. The .45 long colt is no chump for personal protection by any means. I would take the old cowboy round over a whole bunch of other calibers on the market. In snake country the .410 would be a great peace of mind too.

[ArmySGT.]

Well I finally got my copy of the American Rifleman. So I got to read the same article.

The gun fails miserably as a .45 LC revolver. The nicest thing that could be said by the writer occurs on page 53.

"Following the American Rifleman protocol and firing from the bench. I worked my way through five consecutive, five shot groups with each load. Accuracy was enough to stay on silhouette at 25 yards; but not on par with many other revolvers from the Taurus catalog. There were several on target hits with evidence of keyholing. I believe this is a function of the rifling used in the Judge, as well as the long section of freeboore in the cylinder."

The writer goes on to explain that , the fire arm works much better with shot shells fully recommending the use of '000' shot shells instead of .45LC.

Works fantastic as a 3 inch, 5 shot, shotgun with a lightly rifled barrel that doesn't interfere much with shot patterns and meets NFA regs.

Great for snakes.

[commonsense]

For all you folks that do not think much of the 44/10, I got a new dealer flyer and by fall they should have a magnum Judge shooting 3 in 410's, and a model in ultra-light.

[macgeoghagen]

would it be feasible to have a barrel chambered for .45LC that can accept a screw on choke tube? Would that choke tube improve the open circle pattern that is usually encountered when firing shot through a rifled bore?

[ArmySGT.]

Nope, that would change it from a pistol to a short barreled shot gun.

Now if you want to spend the money on it, and I recommend you don't.

Fill out a BATFE form 1 requesting a change for your judge handgun to be reclassed as an AOW (any other weapon). Wait a few months for the bureaucratic machine to gind away and you will bet a yes or no reply, with a yes the process your $200 and issue a tax stamp.

Your Judge revolver would forever be a AOW with restricted transfer even if rebarreled.

Then find a gunsmith to do the work. This might be significantly expensive , if a way to mount the choke ha to be fabricated.

[ArmySGT.]

I had another thought on this; if the screw on choke was external. Maybe.

Essentially the front sight would have to be relocated reward, the front half inch turned down and threaded. Then a screw on choke fabbed to fit on the end like a compensator would.

I would still run this by the BATFE , firearms technical branch just to have their say on whether this would be a legal route to take.

Again it is expensive just to turn a gun that doesn't work well as a revolver in 45LC or as a .410 because of the micro rifling. Into something that may or may not work better.

If you want a revolver that shoots shot by a Le Mat.

[OzarksJohn]

Howdy.

Got an opportunity to fire one of the longer barrel Judge revolvers last fall. Fired a few .410 loads and some lightly loaded cowboy .45 ammo. I think these guns have potential for being VERY useful around the farmstead and would certainly make an excellent just in case gun for carry in real wilderness travel. I know if I had one I would try several different loads on paper at various ranges out to maybe 50 yards or at least as far out as the accuracy and patterns held up with any given load. Then choose the best of each type. I doubt that the .410 shells would ever perform as good as they would from a proper full choke smooth bore, nor will the .45 cartridges give accuracy on par with a properly rifled .45 bore, BUT I would bet that both would give adequately useful accuracy and patterns out to distances that occur in the real world which usually aren't all that far away. If these guns work well at 25 yards and less, they are going to be extremely popular. OzarksJohn

[redneck514]

i own a JUDGE and love it i am here in southern middle tn where we got all kinds of venemous snakes and are now getting droped off dogs that are packing up and taking livestock this gun is my truck and tractor gun it can easly handle the dogs snakes big foot et or whatever is roming around to possibly pose a threat i hand load my own ammo and get good accuracy at 30 yards with the colt i am also trying diffrent 410 loads the winchester buckshot will shoot a decent patern at 15 yards and has already been useful on many accasions my hand loads are a 230 grain bullet travling at 1000 fps this is also a safe load i had it sent and tested for presure and it is around 11000 cup for person that doesnot reload i sugest the 225 grain win silver tip for protection it is stouter than cowboy loads and is a low pressure load also i hope this helps some of you ;)

[ArmySGT.]

Howdy.

Got an opportunity to fire one of the longer barrel Judge revolvers last fall. Fired a few .410 loads and some lightly loaded cowboy .45 ammo. I think these guns have potential for being VERY useful around the farmstead and would certainly make an excellent just in case gun for carry in real wilderness travel. I know if I had one I would try several different loads on paper at various ranges out to maybe 50 yards or at least as far out as the accuracy and patterns held up with any given load. Then choose the best of each type. I doubt that the .410 shells would ever perform as good as they would from a proper full choke smooth bore, nor will the .45 cartridges give accuracy on par with a properly rifled .45 bore, BUT I would bet that both would give adequately useful accuracy and patterns out to distances that occur in the real world which usually aren't all that far away. If these guns work well at 25 yards and less, they are going to be extremely popular. OzarksJohn

Nope.

[ArmySGT.]

i own a JUDGE Every body makes mistakes. everybody.
i hand load my own ammo and get good accuracy at 30 yards with the colt i am also trying diffrent 410 loads the winchester buckshot will shoot a decent patern at 15 yards and has already been useful on many accasions Since you do your own handloading; most folks do so for economy or performance, why do this piss poor performance please you?

[redneck514]

ok i guess i must return fire since im being attacked by ARMY SGT for one i own several taurus firearms and have never failed me second since you think its a mistake i would like to here your oppinion as to why as for the ballistics here goes my loads perform well i did not list my group size but i guess i must i get 1 1/2 at 30 yards and 2 1/4 a 50 so thats pritty good by my book it also competes with higher priced autos and revolvers i recently read two articles on kimber 45 acp one shot a 2 inch group at 25 yards and 2 1/2 at 30 that was a lower end kimber the other was a 1500 dollar auto and shot better 1 1/2 at 25 yards and 1 3/4 at 30 they did not shoot out at 50 yards and these were handloaded bullets the info camefrome handloader the magazine i also have a friend with a smith custom shop 45 and shoots 1 1/2 t 25 so compare mine with the above and i do not see a problem so here goes third the ballistics on a 45 acp top loads are around 950 fps with a 230 grain bullet with a 5 inch barrel this is not speculation thats what most of my friends get frome theirs that is also the same fps in most load books i did have a friend who got 978 fp frome his but it is a hot load my 45 colt load is 230 grain hollow point at 1010 to 1026 by my chrony the above 45acp loads were also shot throu my crony all loads were cronied 4 to 5 feet frome muzzle so their you have it i still dont see why it is a mistake

[Tuckahoe]

Thompson Center has made the .45 .410 barrel much longer than anyone and ATF never came down on them.

[OzarksJohn]

Howdy

It's good to see someone remind us of where in modern shooting times this .45/410 idea popped up. CONTENDER!
This barrel had a detachable choke just to counter the spin of the rifling when shooting shot loads. Mel Tappan highly recommended it as a do-all around the farmstead way back in the long ago published Survival Guns book. Combos are fantastic IF they work to a reasonable level of utility. I tend to think the Judge may very well be working, on average, up to the expectations of those thousands of customers who are plunking down hundreds of bucks to buy the Judge because it's the only LEGAL .410 revolver commonly available. Having a .45 with so-so accuracy isn't what most buyers are after, but I know that a .45 that can hold even 4" groups at 20-25 yards is a serious threat to an adversary at typical self defense ranges. And the issue of keyholing bullets isn't an issue IF they are still grouping at short ranges. Bullet yaw has been long proven to magnify stopping power considerably. Yes, there are lots of ways to condemn the utility of a tool but there's also more than one way to employ most tools.OzarksJohn

P.S.
I'll bet if enough Judge revolvers hit the market, some enterprising ammo company will make a Judge load with a specially designed hollowbase bullet that will shoot MUCH better than the run of the mill .45 Ammo that's been designed for conventional revolvers.OJ

[hunter63]

Watched this thread for quite a while, couldn't stand it.......

I have one of the Side X side derringers, and is fun to shoot.
Carry it in my tackle box for water snakes.
Asked the gun dealer what you would use it for, when I was looking at it and he said,"Shooting rabbits out the truck window in the grader ditch......"

Maybe "Da Judge" shoot better than the S X S, but I gotta tell ya, that effective range is about ten ft, and by that time the pattern is already 6 ft dia.
Don't aim at the ground you'll hit your foot.

W/.45 long colt, tumbles, .410 slugs, tumbles also.
About the best load I have found is the "home protection load"-three 000 buck per shell.
That's impressive.

If you want a shot shell, they are available for .38,/.357, .44 mag etc, if that's what you want to shoot, and you still have a solid accurate hand gun.

Not to attack anyone but IMO:
With all the comments about changeable chokes, hand loads, ballistics and so on,
I guess I just question the reason anyone would want to go thru that much trouble to get one to shoot where you point it?

Point of interest: the add on .410 barrel for my H & R Handi Rifle has a screw in choke, that you put in to shoot the .45 LC.
It has rifling in the choke part.

Guess the gun companies just have to comming up with something new, or everyone would have one of everything and that would be the end of it.................

[OzarksJohn]

Howdy.

I tend to agree with Hunter on this. It's true that you can go to extremes and get something that kind of defies physics to work out, but why bother?( unless it's your hobby)I think the whole point of the Judge is simply the .410 pistol concept. The .45 part isn't what's driving the sales. If you can get a decent small game shot pattern at 20 steps, even people that can't hit the broad side of a barn with a normal handgun can take small game(and SNAKES!) with a holster gun as it's presented while building fence, working the garden, and/or a million other down on the farm chores.OJ

[ArmySGT.]

A second review of the judge in the NRA rag, now that the 3" version of the judge is out. Still a POS. Barely keeps on an IPSC target at 25 yards with .45 LC, thats and 18" x 18" center of mass. Thats not acceptable with a 12 guage let alone a pistol for personal protection. As pocket shotgun; it still has gaps in the pattern caused by the micro-rifling rotating the shot cup and the necessary cylinder bore.

The best that could be offered is to use 000 shot for close in self defense. Though the gun weighs as much as a M1911A1 with twice the bulk.

People love the concept, though it fails again and again. If you went the legal route, sent in a form one and two hundred dollars to get permission from the ATF. Then changed the judge to a smooth bore NFA controlled AOW; then you might have the six shot pocket shotgun of your dreams or not.

[9er]

Here I thought these guns would be pretty awesome.. :-/

[kctibs]

I have had my new Judge in the 3'' Mag for about two weeks now. I have been shooting slugs and no 45's. I can shoot 4'' groups all the time at 15 to 50 feet. I would say the judge is great. It may not work for match shooting, but it's not made for that either. Also the shotshell pattern with #4, #6, and #7 is not bad either. It's no good for bird hunting but will work for grouse on the ground at 20 feet just fine. And if somebody messes with you and you give them a face full of #4 I don't think they will ask for 2nd's.
It also carries well I normally carry large frame autos so the size is not an issue. In short for what it is made for it is a great gun. I have been waiting for something like this for a long time.

[Watonga_Jim]

While I have better guns available for all scenarios, I've always thought that the Judge would be a cool gun to carry in the woods (3" Mag Model). * However, given the current price, it will remain way down on my wish list. *If one does not have a good basic battery of guns, then the Judge looks like a loser, however, if you're looking for something new and cool, I couldn't blame someone for buying one. * 8)

[hunter63]

While I have better guns available for all scenarios, I've always thought that the Judge would be a cool gun to carry in the woods (3" Mag Model). * However, given the current price, it will remain way down on my wish list. *If one does not have a good basic battery of guns, then the Judge looks like a loser, however, if you're looking for something new and cool, I couldn't blame someone for buying one. * 8)

I agree.
I have been fortunate to pass from "need" to "cool/want" quite a while ago, but I still wouldn't consider the Judge very high on my list either.
Sorry, boys.

[snake]

At about $400.00 it's not worth it to me. My mod 29 S&W .44 is just fine. It's the 4", a little big, but not a problem. Load it with 2 or 3 Speer shotcaps, and either .44 Special, or the magnums, and I'm set. Pure hell on the rattlesnakes, and cottinmouths here. Plus the regular bullets will take care of any pig....2 or 4 legged. 8)

[rice paddy daddy]

Hey, Sarge, why do you keep knocking the 45 Colt as a "cowboy caliber"? 250 grains of lead moving at 900 fps will get the job done.
My Ruger will handle 45 loads hotter than 44 mag, in fact, right now it's loaded with Cor Bon +P's.
45 Colt - been killin men since 1873.

[ArmySGT.]

Hey, Sarge, why do you keep knocking the 45 Colt as a "cowboy caliber"? 250 grains of lead moving at 900 fps will get the job done.
My Ruger will handle 45 loads hotter than 44 mag, in fact, right now it's loaded with Cor Bon +P's.
45 Colt - been killin men since 1873.

It was effective in its day. I can't say it wouldn't get the job done.

However it is loaded down (less powder) for cowboy action and with black powder or substitutes, and choices are regularly Lead round nose ot lead round nose flat point.

So why walk into a gun fight with a cartridge loaded softly for competition (faster recovery and follow up shots, makes a dense cloud of smoke that obscures the target in some conditions, and is a less effective bullet design ( not expanding).

That's it really. I mean a .22 has been known to shine on occasion.

[rice paddy daddy]

Agreed on the wimpy loads used in Cowboy Action Shooting. However, my Ruger Blackhawk can handle handloads to the tune of 250 grain cast lead at 1400 fps.
I carry my SAA's around the farm, when I go to town there's a 1911 45 ACP in the console, and a 357 mag in the glove box.
I definatley agree with ya that the Judge is a solution looking for a problem. For example, around the homestead, I routinely carry a SAA in 45 or 357 on one hip, and in case of snakes (rattlers and cotton mouths are a concern here) my Colt Police Positive 38 loaded with shot shells on the other hip.
I also like double barrel shotguns and my Colt 32/20 revolver, and lever rifles. Old school to the bone! ;D
***In the interest of full disclosure, I do own one 9mm: a Walther P38. But I wouldn't bet my life on it.***